Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

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Postby sunny » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:04 pm

isachar wrote:I would presume that since the 'touch' DNA results can rule someone out from having made the 'touch', these same results can be used to identify the person who did so.

And, since it's an open murder investigation, requests for DNA samples can still be made or otherwise obtained, and charges can still be brought.


This is why I am concerned that Fleet Jr. did not give a DNA sample. I'm not sure of this, but I've never seen anything positively confirming he did so.

Another thing that makes this DNA concerning is that Dr. Henry Lee felt certain that, at least in regards to the sample in her underwear, that the DNA was an artifact from the manufacturing process. He tested new packages of the brand of underpants she was wearing that night (several sizes too big) and found artifacts in those as well. I understand this "touch" sample came from her long johns, but I would think the artifact explanation would be even more salient in that instance.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby beeline » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:35 am

Link


Woman: One-time JonBenet suspect recruiting kids
The Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO - A woman who has a restraining order against the man who falsely claimed to have murdered JonBenet Ramsey says the former suspect is living as a woman and trying to form a cult of little girls to have sex with him.

The woman, 19-year-old Samantha Spiegel, spoke Wednesday on NBC's "Today."

She says she met John Mark Karr after he confessed to the death of 6-year-old child beauty queen JonBenet. She says they became engaged, and that Karr asked her to help recruit children.

Spiegel says she was brainwashed, and that she's speaking out to help other potential victims.

Karr now goes by the name Alexis Valoran Reich. He drew international attention in 2006 with his arrest in Thailand over his bizarre confession. DNA tests didn't put him at the crime scene.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) , A woman who has a restraining order against the man who falsely claimed to have murdered JonBenet Ramsey says the former suspect is living as a woman and trying to form a cult of little girls to have sex with him.

The woman, 19-year-old Samantha Spiegel, spoke Wednesday on NBC's "Today."

She says she met Karr after he confessed to the death of 6-year-old child beauty queen JonBenet. She says they became engaged, and that Karr asked her to help recruit children.

Spiegel says she was brainwashed, and that she's speaking out to help other potential victims.

Karr now goes by the name Alexis Valoran Reich. He drew international attention in 2006 with his arrest in Thailand over his bizarre confession. DNA tests didn't put him at the crime scene.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby Peachtree Pam » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:32 am

I think that it was also significant that the people attending the Christmas party at Fleet White's house came from California, but their names were never released.

Nancy Krebs' evidence concerns events taking place in California in earlier years with Fleet White Sr and John Ramsey. If you read the transcripts closely, you will see that initially the Boulder police were very interested in her testimony, then later on they begin to cool toward her and the fix was in to discredit her. In the end she and her therapist fled for their lives from Boulder.


There were supposed to be arguments in Atlanta between Fleet White Jr and John Ramsey over Fleet thinking that John was not helping the police enough. Obvious to me this was just staging. At one point they came to blows.

It's my take that she was dead when they brought her back from the White's house and spent all night staging the "crime".
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby sunny » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:49 am

Peachtree Pam wrote:I think that it was also significant that the people attending the Christmas party at Fleet White's house came from California, but their names were never released.

Nancy Krebs' evidence concerns events taking place in California in earlier years with Fleet White Sr and John Ramsey. If you read the transcripts closely, you will see that initially the Boulder police were very interested in her testimony, then later on they begin to cool toward her and the fix was in to discredit her. In the end she and her therapist fled for their lives from Boulder.


There were supposed to be arguments in Atlanta between Fleet White Jr and John Ramsey over Fleet thinking that John was not helping the police enough. Obvious to me this was just staging. At one point they came to blows.

It's my take that she was dead when they brought her back from the White's house and spent all night staging the "crime".


Pam! Hello there, long time no see! welcome back. :lovehearts:

Not only were the names of the White's California Christmas guests never released there were also photos of the event that have never been seen. What/who are the hiding? Nancy Krebs insisted her mother (who was the Goddaughter of Fleet Sr.) and little niece were there and I think the photos would support this and thus Nancy's credibility. BPD also apparently never checked pertinent travel records of Nancy's mother.

I also believe JonBenet was dead when they brought her home. 1--Initially, there was a contradiction in testimony between the Ramsey's and their young son Burke as to whether JonBenet was 'asleep' or not when they returned home. Seems like a simple enough fact to keep straight. 2-The pineapple in her digestive sytem suggests she ate it very shortly before her death. I believe the 'pineapple tableau' staged on the Ramsey's kitchen table was an attempt to misdirect from the fact that JonBenet ate pineapple at the White's party and died there shortly afterwards. 2 pieces of info tend to support this--1--JonBenet's fingerprints were not on the bowl containing the fruit nor on the spoon she supposedly at it with. 2--Mrs. White claimed she 'couldn't remember' whether she served pineapple at her own Xmas party.

Just a reminder: The transcript of Nancy Krebs' first BPD interview is reproduced in full in the Data Dump.
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Last edited by sunny on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby bks » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:11 pm

What does it mean that Nancy Krebs and her therapist 'fled for their lives' from Boulder? What are the specifics? Thanks.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby sunny » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:24 pm

bks wrote:What does it mean that Nancy Krebs and her therapist 'fled for their lives' from Boulder? What are the specifics? Thanks.


I'm not sure that is quite accurate.

It went down like this--the therapist in California Ms. Bienkowski helped Nancy skip town for Boulder so she could give her statement to the police. Nancy TOLD BPD she was terrified of her family finding out she was spilling what she knew about the case and begged BPD to not tell them she was there. Amazingly, when her family filed a missing persons report in Cali--keep in mind she was a grown woman in her 30's--BPD immediately alerted the family to her presence in Boulder! Nancy hid out at the home of a woman named Mary Suma in Boulder for a time, managed to give one more (contentious) interview to police, and from there I have no idea what happened to her or where she might be today. To my knowledge, Ms. Bienkowski was never in Boulder in connection with this case.

Nancy's young niece, who was five at the time of the murder and whose name has never been released, has remained out of the country and out of reach since that time. She once told Nancy "they killed the little girl!".

Nancy's attorney Lee Hill, who once defended Leonard Peltier, ended up in a world of trouble over this case:

http://www.westword.com/2000-03-30/news ... urist/full
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby Simulist » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:59 pm

It's somewhat interesting that this came up at the same time the new charges against Joran Van Der Sloot have been made.

(Joran Van Der Sloot is the suspect in the disappearance and/or murder of Natalee Holloway. Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth, has dated John Ramsey, father of JonBenet.)

Not significant, necessarily; just somewhat interesting.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby sunny » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:04 pm

Simulist wrote:It's somewhat interesting that this came up at the same time the new charges against Joran Van Der Sloot have been made.

(Joran Van Der Sloot is the suspect in the disappearance and/or murder of Natalee Holloway. Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth, has dated John Ramsey, father of JonBenet.)

Not significant, necessarily; just somewhat interesting.


Interesting and obvious. Missing/dead white girls are usually the go-to distraction from inconveniently rage-inducing political incidents.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby Simulist » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:12 pm

You're right, Sunny. My absent mind checked out before I'd thought of that this morning. Thank you.
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby sunny » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:08 pm

Simulist wrote:You're right, Sunny. My absent mind checked out before I'd thought of that this morning. Thank you.


Oi. I promise I didn't mean to make you feel inadequate. :wink:
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby Simulist » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:16 pm

sunny wrote:
Simulist wrote:You're right, Sunny. My absent mind checked out before I'd thought of that this morning. Thank you.


Oi. I promise I didn't mean to make you feel inadequate. :wink:

Oh you didn't. I'm adequate — although on some days, merely that.

(And don't anybody say, "Then are those the good days?" :D )
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby sunny » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:28 pm

Simulist wrote:
sunny wrote:
Simulist wrote:You're right, Sunny. My absent mind checked out before I'd thought of that this morning. Thank you.


Oi. I promise I didn't mean to make you feel inadequate. :wink:

Oh you didn't. I'm adequate — although on some days, merely that.

(And don't anybody say, "Then are those the good days?" :D )


I'm always happy to have an adequate day. :P
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby sunny » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:36 pm

Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother
Julie Hayden Reporter
September 20, 2010

DENVER - FOX31 News has learned that Boulder Police detectives recently met with Burke Ramsey, the brother of six year old JonBenet Ramsey, to talk with him about his sister's murder.

JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in her family's Boulder home in December of 1996. Burke was 9 years old at the time.

He is now 23 and recently graduated from college. Sources tell Fox31 News that detectives traveled out of state in the past few weeks to re-interview Burke about the case.

Burke has never been considered a serious suspect, but he was in the house the night of the murder.

His parents claimed he was asleep. But at least some investigators are skeptical.

Some believe you can hear Burke's voice in the background of a 9-1-1 call Patsy Ramsey made to report her daughter had been kidnapped.

Shortly after that, Burke was sent to stay with a family friend. And hours later, his father found JonBenet's body in a basement room in the house.

Boulder Police are not commenting, except to say it is an open and active investigation.

video report at link:

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-police-ra ... ?track=rss

Wondering if they have new evidence...
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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby 82_28 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:51 pm

This may sound funny, but I'm just glad they threw me in jail that night in the south end of Denver! I've always been paranoid about being accused of something I never did or have any knowledge of. A neurosis of mine. I had a good alibi. What a night to get a DUI! Christmas night. My family and extended family was so bummed with me. But that memory will always be with me, when I think Jon Benet, I think of them tossing me in general population, my mouth going dry in fear and all the gang bangers watching the Jon Benet coverage on the little TV attached to the wall. Don't go to jail on Christmas btw, it's hard to get a quick bail bond!

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Re: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:22 am

Jeff wrote:Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death

And not as possible accomplices?

JonBenet Ramsey detective's new book casts doubt on 'intruder' theory
Published July 20, 2012

A new book by a lead investigator in the JonBenet Ramsey murder puts forward a new theory: There was no intruder in the home where a wealthy Colorado couple's six-year-old daughter was found murdered in 1996.
James Kolar's book, "Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?" takes its name from the ransom note found in the home, which was signed by "a small foreign faction." But he believes the theory that an intruder broke in and wrote the note, which led to the girl's family being cleared, is bogus.
"By the time I parted company with the D.A.'s office, I was convinced that there was no significant possibility that an intruder had been involved in the death of JonBenet."
- James Kolar, former lead detective
"By the time I parted company with the D.A.'s office, I was convinced that there was no significant possibility that an intruder had been involved in the death of JonBenet," Kolar writes in his book.
Kolar believes abrasions on the girl may have come from a toy and not a stun gun allegedly wielded by her killer.
Kolar, who had access to 60,000 pages of evidence, including crime-scene video and photos, interviews with individuals related to the case and forensic reports, notes that intact cobwebs stretched over the window through which the intruder allegedly entered.
The little girl was found beaten and strangled with a garrote on Dec. 26, 1996 in the basement of her family home. The bizarre ransom note, which purported to be from a group "that represent[ed] a foreign faction," asked for $118,000 in exchange for the safe return of JonBenet. The note was found hours before a search of the house turned up the dead girl.
Parents John and Patsy Ramsey were suspects for years, but were cleared 12 years later on the strength of newly discovered DNA evidence. Patsy Ramsey died in 2006 of ovarian cancer.
In 2010, investigators reopened the case, but nothing came of the effort. Boulder District Attorney Stan Garnett said in 2010 that he personally gets five or more tips each month, according to Fox31.
Kolar dedicated his book to Boulder police, who he believes were made to look like bumbling idiots. He publicly clashed with Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy, who hired him in 2004, but later dismissed him and cleared the Ramseys.
In clearing the Ramseys, Lacy cited a DNA sample of an “unknown” male found in JonBenet’s underwear and on her leggings.
“The match of male DNA on two separate items of clothing worn by the victim at the time of the murder makes it clear to us that an unknown male handled these items,” Lacy wrote.
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