German TV exposes chemtrails

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:05 am

mentalgongfu2 wrote:So you believe a different kind of jet fuel and atmospheric changes are responsible for persistent contrails / chemtrails, and we won't be able to use ground based telescopes by 2050

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4755996.stm

Ground-based astronomy could be impossible in 40 years because of pollution from aircraft exhaust trails and climate change, an expert says.


mentalgongfu2 wrote:but we shouldn't waste our time concerning ourself with this phenomena because it is an energy sink and full of disinfo?


Yes. Unless you wanna join the list wackos I've unfortunately run across that became obsessed and suggested shooting down planes or some such lunatic behavior.

YOU tell ME what can be done about the Aircraft Industry? And when you're ready for the real curveball, go look into artificial cirrus' role in global cooling. The reality is the fucking junk up there is the only thing preventing the runaway warming scenario Jeff posted this morning. In some parts of the Earth, pollution particulates drop the Sun's light by up to 10 percent. Is it not a source of disgust for you that pollution is something that's keeping you alive? Ground the planes and that barrier won't last long. But this is redundant, as I imagine even planes won't be able to afford gas much longer, so......

mentalgongfu2 wrote:and do you discount the reports from honest witnesses who see what they consider unusual aerial activity associated with the clouding effect that you too say you have observed and studied?


I discount nothing. I interpret the same data they do in a different way.

Clearly this is a problem for you, but I've tried to be as friendly and liberal in my explanation for my rationale backing it up with solid science.

If you're still irked by it, I don't know what to tell you, dude.

The World's fucked.

Ever buy a plane ticket or fill a car's gas engine?
Last edited by Et in Arcadia ego on Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"but I do know that you should remove my full name from your sig. Dig?" - Unnamed, Super Scary Persun, bbrrrrr....
User avatar
Et in Arcadia ego
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: The Void
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby nathan28 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:20 am

Hey man, it can't be that bad.

Image
Last edited by nathan28 on Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
nathan28
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:57 am

nathan28 wrote:Hey man, it can't be that bad.

Image


*ding*
"but I do know that you should remove my full name from your sig. Dig?" - Unnamed, Super Scary Persun, bbrrrrr....
User avatar
Et in Arcadia ego
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: The Void
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Seamus OBlimey » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:31 pm

Awesome sheet-lightning thunderstorms overnight, hammering down rain and some localised flooding until 5am. Then clear blue skies until clouds started blowing in from SE. Looks much like Cirrus Unwotsit but I don't like to make wild claims. The very few planes I have seen left NO trails and I've only seen one persister all day. There's still time yet but I reckon they're all busy down there, wunderground
User avatar
Seamus OBlimey
 
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:14 pm
Location: Gods own country
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:54 pm

mentalgongfu2 wrote:
but we shouldn't waste our time concerning ourself with this phenomena because it is an energy sink and full of disinfo?

et in arcadia ego wrote:
Yes. Unless you wanna join the list wackos I've unfortunately run across that became obsessed and suggested shooting down planes or some such lunatic behavior.


Clearly this is a problem for you, but I've tried to be as friendly and liberal in my explanation for my rationale backing it up with solid science.

If you're still irked by it, I don't know what to tell you, dude.

The World's fucked.


My only problem, as it were, has to do with your earlier attempts to limit this discussion from happening at all. And I personally didn't find your yawning and cocksucking graphics and the other derision at the start of this thread to be very "friendly."

Your opinions and explanations, on the other hand, are quite welcome.

My confusion comes from our agreement that "the world's fucked," coupled with your position that to attempt to investigate or take action will inevitably result in obsession and lunatic behavior and should be avoided for this reason.
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
User avatar
mentalgongfu2
 
Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:02 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:58 pm

Ask Cliff Carnicom if he plucked out a Morgellons fiber or a tooth nerve.

Many 'TI's' start life as chemmies.
"but I do know that you should remove my full name from your sig. Dig?" - Unnamed, Super Scary Persun, bbrrrrr....
User avatar
Et in Arcadia ego
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: The Void
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Jeff » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:12 pm

mentalgongfu2 wrote:My confusion comes from our agreement that "the world's fucked," coupled with your position that to attempt to investigate or take action will inevitably result in obsession and lunatic behavior and should be avoided for this reason.


I don't think that's what et's saying. I think he's trying to broaden the discussion of just what is fucked about the world, and he's suggesting that an honest and meaningful investigation should be prepared to interpret data without the cognitive presumption of "chemtrails."
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Fat Lady Singing » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:27 pm

Jeff wrote:
mentalgongfu2 wrote:My confusion comes from our agreement that "the world's fucked," coupled with your position that to attempt to investigate or take action will inevitably result in obsession and lunatic behavior and should be avoided for this reason.


I don't think that's what et's saying. I think he's trying to broaden the discussion of just what is fucked about the world, and he's suggesting that an honest and meaningful investigation should be prepared to interpret data without the cognitive presumption of "chemtrails."


Hi Jeff, all: But isn't that what I and several others are proposing in this thread?

At this point, I'm really not sure who et is arguing against... nobody on this thread, that I've seen, anyway, is trying to make a strong case for anything except, perhaps, further investigation. Certainly nobody who has posted strikes me as being the kind of person to pluck out a fiber or nerve from his or her tooth because of obsessive belief in evil 'trails, nor do they strike me as being ones who might wind up that way.

I'm sorry, et, but I'm reading your comments as a passionate reaction to an argument that hasn't been made on *this* thread. I know a few months ago there was a flap surrounding the topic, and I can see why you'd like to guard against that happening again.

I guess I'm not getting that that's a possibility here and now, although, as always, it's entirely possible I'm missing some important subtext since I'm not such a permanent RI fixture. I bop in and out every couple of weeks, sometimes more, sometimes less, which leaves me scratching my head, often. Perhaps this is one such occasion.
User avatar
Fat Lady Singing
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby brainpanhandler » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:22 pm

Fat Lady Singing wrote:
Jeff wrote:
mentalgongfu2 wrote:My confusion comes from our agreement that "the world's fucked," coupled with your position that to attempt to investigate or take action will inevitably result in obsession and lunatic behavior and should be avoided for this reason.


I don't think that's what et's saying. I think he's trying to broaden the discussion of just what is fucked about the world, and he's suggesting that an honest and meaningful investigation should be prepared to interpret data without the cognitive presumption of "chemtrails."


Hi Jeff, all: But isn't that what I and several others are proposing in this thread?

At this point, I'm really not sure who et is arguing against... nobody on this thread, that I've seen, anyway, is trying to make a strong case for anything except, perhaps, further investigation. Certainly nobody who has posted strikes me as being the kind of person to pluck out a fiber or nerve from his or her tooth because of obsessive belief in evil 'trails, nor do they strike me as being ones who might wind up that way.

I'm sorry, et, but I'm reading your comments as a passionate reaction to an argument that hasn't been made on *this* thread. I know a few months ago there was a flap surrounding the topic, and I can see why you'd like to guard against that happening again.

I guess I'm not getting that that's a possibility here and now, although, as always, it's entirely possible I'm missing some important subtext since I'm not such a permanent RI fixture. I bop in and out every couple of weeks, sometimes more, sometimes less, which leaves me scratching my head, often. Perhaps this is one such occasion.


When you get some time read this thread...

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... &start=135
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
User avatar
brainpanhandler
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:32 pm

an honest and meaningful investigation should be prepared to interpret data without the cognitive presumption of "chemtrails."


Jeff, Fat Lady Singing pretty much summed up my intended reply.

I'm not presuming that any material is necessarily being sprayed. And investigating atmospheric science and meteorology is certainly a necessary avenue toward learning what is going on.

That said, like others here, I have seen some really odd things as far as flight patterns go. I live in a rural area that doesn't usually have a lot of air traffic, so when it does, it's quite noticeable to those paying attention. I became aware of this whole thing because I one day noticed an unbelievable number of planes flying in the same general airspace, back and forth, leaving long trails. What I was seeing was so unusual, I made an acquaintance come look to confirm that I was not imagining things and it did indeed appear abnormal.

I don't intend to assume anything, but I can't dismiss what I've seen. I've considered trying to track flight paths that I understand are filed and recorded by each carrier and compare to careful observation of a particular area of aerospace, but that task is a little above my pay grade at this point.

I've dug into the "chemmie" world, and I don't spend a lot of time there anymore precisely because there is so much that is questionable, and even the stuff that sounds good can't be well verified.

But I'm just as skeptical of explanations from the EPA or NASA or the United Nations, because those agencies have as much a record of lying as the Interwebs.
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
User avatar
mentalgongfu2
 
Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:02 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Fat Lady Singing » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:41 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:When you get some time read this thread...
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... &start=135


Oh hey, lookit there -- I actually posted about the same incident there. I see that when the event was fresher, I reported about 20 perfect squares, not the 12 to 14 I estimated in this thread. Huh.

Oh well. Same ol' same ol', I guess. I never came back to that thread after I posted, figuring it was dead, so I didn't see the denouement.

Can someone tell me if et & Jeff and all are saying that I'm somehow doing something wrong or maybe just wasting time by wondering what the heck I saw was, or by postulating that perhaps it's an only semi-covert program to forestall global warming? Honestly, I'm lost here. I'll leave it be after this. I don't care *that* much about the topic anyway; it's a curious story for me, not an obsession. I just don't want to be accused of calling down the furies, 'cause that wasn't my intention at all, and I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone.
User avatar
Fat Lady Singing
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:34 pm

Fat Lady Singing wrote:Can someone tell me if et & Jeff and all are saying that I'm somehow doing something wrong or maybe just wasting time by wondering what the heck I saw was, or by postulating that perhaps it's an only semi-covert program to forestall global warming?


No, ma'am, you are doing nothing wrong by asking. Those that are doing the wrong are the ones that try to sell you Cloudbusters to chase away those pesky death trails.

I've seriously wondered if some of the hardcore whackos NOT the debunkers, are Shell/Exxon/Mobile employees.

Think of the UFO and 9/11 Truth movements.
"but I do know that you should remove my full name from your sig. Dig?" - Unnamed, Super Scary Persun, bbrrrrr....
User avatar
Et in Arcadia ego
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: The Void
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby medicis » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:19 pm

et in Arcadia ego wrote:
Fat Lady Singing wrote:Can someone tell me if et & Jeff and all are saying that I'm somehow doing something wrong or maybe just wasting time by wondering what the heck I saw was, or by postulating that perhaps it's an only semi-covert program to forestall global warming?


No, ma'am, you are doing nothing wrong by asking. Those that are doing the wrong are the ones that try to sell you Cloudbusters to chase away those pesky death trails.

I've seriously wondered if some of the hardcore whackos NOT the debunkers, are Shell/Exxon/Mobile employees.

Think of the UFO and 9/11 Truth movements.


A kind of general/specific note.

It appears to me that the environmental and jet fuel (i.e., atmospheric conditions, etc. and polution issues and 'jet fuel changed' arguments which are merely proposed as a 'this is what's happening' assertions) explanations miss a point. (And the Shell, etc., reference is irrelvant). A pertinent question is whether the quantity and configuration of contrails is inconsistent with what should be happening in that bit of sky versus normal configurations of activity. If they are not, as appears to be the case from several self-reports (reliable people, I presume) then you have to ask the question of why and what is going on. For obvious reasons.

All I ever suggested was a logical and a try at an empirical analysis of the questions. To have seen such heat is a intriguing.

Oh.. and to think that the UFO and 9/11 issues (UFO stuff, while complex, is, with all of the credible witnesses at least disconcerting, and the 9/11 Truth data which is massively indicative of a false flag psyop) are going to be used with such dismissal is.... a bit telling.... but also irrelevant.
medicis
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:37 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:29 pm

I hate to be reactionary, but are you making a fucking accusation towards me?

edit: fuck this thread.

Image
"but I do know that you should remove my full name from your sig. Dig?" - Unnamed, Super Scary Persun, bbrrrrr....
User avatar
Et in Arcadia ego
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm
Location: The Void
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby brainpanhandler » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:10 am

Fat Lady Singing wrote:
brainpanhandler wrote:When you get some time read this thread...
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewt ... &start=135


Oh hey, lookit there -- I actually posted about the same incident there. I see that when the event was fresher, I reported about 20 perfect squares, not the 12 to 14 I estimated in this thread. Huh.

Oh well. Same ol' same ol', I guess. I never came back to that thread after I posted, figuring it was dead, so I didn't see the denouement.

Can someone tell me if et & Jeff and all are saying that I'm somehow doing something wrong or maybe just wasting time by wondering what the heck I saw was, or by postulating that perhaps it's an only semi-covert program to forestall global warming? Honestly, I'm lost here. I'll leave it be after this. I don't care *that* much about the topic anyway; it's a curious story for me, not an obsession. I just don't want to be accused of calling down the furies, 'cause that wasn't my intention at all, and I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone.


The board's a better place for Et's, self admittedly overzealous at times, policing of this topic. I don't think anyone is upset by what you have written at all.

For the longest time the theory I subscribed to was the global warming mitigation program you suggest, mainly because the thin, hazy layer of clouds that would form when persistent contrails would spread out seemed to protect me from sunburn so well.

Joe and ET have a point about how this topic can drive people into a frenzy and there are definitely lunatics and scam artists willing to whip up and exploit that fear.

I went through a period where I mourned the loss of my 'unpolluted' experience of the sky. I felt I could no longer look at a sunset or sunrise without a sense of dread where once I felt only wonder or delight. This felt like a horrible loss to me. While I realize there are much bigger stakes, that was my personal experience. I later felt remorse at ever having pointed it out to certain people (I was very careful about who I spoke with about any of this).

I still don't have any definitive answers and I am at least partially driven to find them because I have this lingering feeling of horror about the whole experience. It's a feeling that is not unrelated to the paranoia that was whipped up when the soviets launched sputnik. The psychology was that there was a menace hanging above our very heads, a sword of damocles hovering in the sky; the enemy had control of the high ground, like an assertion of dominance in the way that wild dogs will mount their subordinates and stand over them. (I grew up near an air base where we regularly experienced sonic booms, but that never had the "fuck you" feeling that I was experiencing when I would watch these planes seemingly spreading persistent contrails intentionally).

I tend to be very rigorous about explanations which serve the function of relieving me of feeling some way that I don't want to feel.

I find it hard to write about this simply because it is such a controversial issue and I feel I have to choose my words very carefully, but that's probably a good thing.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
User avatar
brainpanhandler
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Belligerent Savant and 51 guests