The Mysterious Dr. Greene

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The Mysterious Dr. Greene

Postby jingofever » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:56 pm

This is about the L. Wilson Greene mentioned in America's Condition Greene. The 'L' is for Luther. I assume he was born in 1900 because a Luther Wilson Greene graduated from North Carolina State[pdf] in 1922 with a degree in chemical engineering. His hometown is listed as Norfolk, Virginia. After graduating he went to work in Philadelphia as a foreman in what I assume was a DuPont chemical plant. (Actually he is listed as Green in the alumni list - a common mistake with this guy.)

In 1929 he entered "government service" which I take to mean he started working at Edgewood Arsenal because in the thirties he published some standard fare chemistry papers which list him as a chemist from Aberdeen, MD:

Para Rubberseed Oil As a Substitute for Linseed Oil in Foundry Core Binders
Chemical Microscopy of Fats and Waxes
Lokombitsika Suggested As Cheaper Rival to Shellac

That last one is only a little write-up describing a paper he wrote on the subject and doesn't seem to be easily available. He must have been working with chemical weapons while he was making those breakthroughs because during the war he was moved from Edgewood Arsenal to Huntsville Arsenal as Chief of Operations:

Col. L. W. Greene was appointed Chief of Operations on 15 June 1942 when Colonel Ungetheum transferred to Rocky Mountain Arsenal.


You can see what they worked on here. Greene is mentioned as a civilian later so his rank of colonel is probably explained by the military preferring to commission their scientists as officers (I think it makes it easier to boss them around). Leslie Groves wanted to do the same to the Manhattan Project scientists but they refused. After the war is when Greene takes a more familiar form:

Military interest in psychochemicals stems from the late 1940s. L. Wilson Green of the Chemical Corps Technical Command at Edgewood proposed that modern military use of psychochemicals might permit the conquering of an enemy without the need for weapons of mass destruction. Such use, he suggested, might reduce the wholesale killing, human misery, and property destruction normally experienced in warfare. He proposed a search for a stable chemical with the capacity to produce mental abnormalities of military importance; 61 chemicals were suggested as a starting point for this search.


The citation for that is:

Taylor, J.R., and Johnson, W.N. Research Report Concerning the Use of Volunteers in Chemical Agent Research. DAIG-IN 21-75. Department of the Army, Office of the Inspector General and Auditor General, Washington, D.C. 1976.

And from a 3 December 1955 memo from Allen Dulles to the Secretary of Defense:

2. The Agency became interested in the potential importance of psychochemicals, primarily because of the enthusiasm and foresight of Dr. L. Wilson Greene, Technical Director of the Chemical and Radiological Laboratories at the Army Chemical Center. Dr. Greene's ideas were included in a report written by him in 1949 entitled “Psychochemical Warfare, a New Concept of War”.

...

5. This Agency's scientists who have been responsible for this research in psychochemicals have maintained close and effective liaison with various research and development groups in the Department of Defense who are aware of our interest and, in varying degrees, of our progress in psychochemicals. Some of these individuals are:

Dr. L. Wilson Greene, Technical Director, Chemical Corps, Chemical and Radiological Laboratories, Army Chemical Center
Dr. Bruce Dill, Scientific Director, Chemical Corps, Medical Laboratory, Army Chemical Center
Dr. Amendeo Marrazzi, a scientist at the Medical Laboratory, Army Chemical Center
Capt. Clifford P. Phoebus, Chief, Biological Sciences Division, Office of Naval Research
Brig. Gen. Don D. Flickinger, ARDC, U.S.A.F.
Lt. Col. Alexander Batlin, Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Research and Development)


Note that Dr. Bruce Dill is actually Dr. David Bruce Dill and Dr. Amendeo Marrazzi is actually Dr. Amedeo Marrazzi.

In 1951 Greene had at least two publications. With J.H. Rothschild and George B. Wilson, "Report of Symposium IV, Chemistry and Physics of Radiation Dosimetry, Part II, Classified Papers, Conducted by Technical Command 18, 19 and 20 Sept. 1950 at Army Chemical Center, Maryland."

Radiation dosimetry is "the calculation of the absorbed dose in matter and tissue resulting from the exposure to ionizing radiation. It is a scientific subspecialty in the fields of health physics and medical physics that is focused on the calculation of internal and external doses from ionizing radiation."

And from a 19 January 1951 Science Magazine blurb:

The German Chemical Industry: a Bibliography of the Chemical, Metallurgical and Process Industries, prepared by L. Wilson Greene for the Office of Technical Services, Department of Commerce, is one of the most complete works relating to captured technology. The bibliography contains over 2,000 references with descriptive titles or abstracts, and includes a subject index, authors indexes, and cross-indexes with OTS, British, and U. S. military report numbers. Particularly helpful are sections dealing with translations and reports available from private publication services. The publication may be obtained from OTS, U.S. Department of Commerce, Washington 25, D. C., for $10.


Amazon has a page for it but the book is unavailable as you would expect for an obscure book that is over fifty years old.

The next year he was awarded an honorary doctorate in engineering from his alma mater North Carolina State University. That is as close to being a doctor as he gets (from what I can tell) but as we see above, Dulles referred to him as doctor. (And note that he is listed as Greene here.)

A 30 May 1956 Science Magazine tells us:

L. Wilson Greene, who formerly was technical director of the Chemical and Radiological Laboratories at the Army Chemical Center, has been appointed chief technical adviser to the Chemical Corps.


A 6 October 1961 Science Magazine says:

L. Wilson Greene, chief technical adviser at the U.S. Army Chemical Research and Development Laboratories, has received the Army's Meritorious Civilian Service decoration. Greene retired last month after 32 years of government service.


That is where I got the 1929 date.

And finally there is a folder (number 10) in a box (number 196 of 459) containing his correspondence from 1938 concerning the Science Service which became Science News. There probably isn't anything incriminating in there but it might tell us a little about the man. Of course it i unavailable unless you have access to the Smithsonian's storage vault.

And that is what I can piece together with publicly available information. He wasn't Mengele. He wasn't a Paperclip scientist (though he no doubt worked with them as his book suggests).
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Postby American Dream » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:51 pm

Major bump on this one. Thank you so much for posting this, jingofever.

Here are some more links of interest.

Article on Holmesburg Prison experiments, including links to Edgewood:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=27784

C.V. Of Dr. Edward Domino, probable associate of Greene's:
http://sitemaker.umich.edu/domino/files/domino.cv.pdf

BZ FOIA Documents:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/bz/bz_list.htm

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa
Early life and influences

During Zappa's earliest childhood, his father, a chemist and mathematician , worked at the Edgewood Arsenal chemical warfare facility at nearby Aberdeen Proving Ground. Due to the home's close proximity to the Arsenal, Zappa's father kept gas masks on hand in case of an accident. Evidently, this had a profound effect on the young Zappa; references to germs, germ warfare and other aspects of the "secret" defense industry occur throughout his work.

ON EDIT: An article on another probable perp, Dr. James Ketchum, where he gets to spin his story his way:
http://www.alternet.org/story/92049/

***


As to the ongoing questions about the identities of MKULTRA perpetrators "Dr. Green", "Dr. Black", Dr. White", I suspect there is some misinformation and/or disinformation out there.

In this post, I think jingofever is pointing us in a very valid direction...
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:29 pm

These are your names--


Mr. Brown, Mr. White...


Mr. Blonde, Mr. Blue...


Mr. Orange and Mr. Pink.


- Why am I Mr. Pink?
- Because you're a faggot! All right?


- Why can't we pick our own colors?
- No way.


No way. Tried it once.
It doesn't work.


You get four guys all fightin'
over who gets to be Mr. Black.


They don't know each other,
so nobody wants to back down.


No way. I pick.
You're Mr. Pink.


Be thankful
you're not Mr. Yellow.


But Mr. Brown,
that's too close to Mr. Shit.


Mr. Pink
sounds like Mr. Pussy.


How about Mr. Purple?


That's sounds good.
I'll be Mr. Purple.


You're not Mr. Purple.


Some guy on some other job
is Mr. Purple. You're Mr. Pink!


Who cares what your name is?


Easy for you to say. You're Mr. White.
You have a cool-sounding name.


If it's no big deal to be Mr. Pink,
you wanna trade?


Nobody's tradin' with anybody.


This ain't a goddamn fuckin'
city council meeting, you know.


Now listen up, Mr. Pink.


There's two ways you can go
on this job--


my way or the highway.


What's it gonna be, Mr. Pink?


Jesus Christ, Joe.
Fuckin' forget about it.
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Postby annie aronburg » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 am

it's all in me
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:38 am

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who you jivin wit dat

Postby annie aronburg » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:21 am

"You might not believe this, little fella, but it'll cure your asthma too!"
it's all in me
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Postby professorpan » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:25 pm

I've met Ketchum. He talked pretty openly about his work at Edgewood, though I do think he downplayed the negative experiences of some of the people in the experiments (he claims there were no long-term problems with any of the volunteers, which I find difficult to believe). He also claimed that *all* of those who took part in the experiments volunteered -- at that time, word was spreading about how one could take drugs and many soldiers were interested in taking part.

I'm quite sure he downplayed the negatives, and I hope to eventually pick up his book and compare it to individual accounts.
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Postby Crow » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:35 pm

Ted Kaczynski was a volunteer in mind control experiments as well. Some would say he's doing fine, but I'd beg to differ.

Some things ya just can't consent to.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:25 am

Todays Ironic headline:

McVeigh injured as Bombers scrape home

The articles about football its got nothing to do with T. McVeigh, or even America.
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Re: The Mysterious Dr. Greene

Postby jingofever » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:27 pm

jingofever wrote:The citation for that is:

Taylor, J.R., and Johnson, W.N. Research Report Concerning the Use of Volunteers in Chemical Agent Research. DAIG-IN 21-75. Department of the Army, Office of the Inspector General and Auditor General, Washington, D.C. 1976.


I just realized that I previously download a portion of this report from some googlepages site. It doesn't look like much but they host some pdfs. The relevant files are "1scanDAIG-REPORT1.pdf" and so on. Whoever 'runs' that site seems to focus on Henry K. Beecher. Anyway, the report doesn't tell us anything we don't know about Dr. Col. Greene. It just moves the reference to his "Psychochemical Warfare." Also interesting from their 'CohnInterview.pdf':

Cohn says a Dr. Schulgin fits the research that was done in sub 109, in which the researcher proposes to synthesize a compound that will alter behavior components of LSD model. He also proposes to test the activity on a number of systems including humans.


I assume Dr. Schulgin is Alexander Shulgin. Subproject 109 was "Drugs-CBW Testing."
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Postby American Dream » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:47 pm

I think it was Sasha Shulgin, and that he did work on MKULTRA contracts while he was working at- was it Dow Chemical?
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:44 pm

For some reason I have never taken much notice of Shulgin. I've never biothered to read anything he wrote pretty much, and never had any desire too. I alays felt there was something about him that was odd.

Interesting to hear all this MK Ultra stuff related to him.

I know he's ex Navy, tho I dunno if that should mean anything, cos I have no idea what he did in the Navy.

Being ex mil shouldn't automatically turn you sus.

Jim DeKorne is ex Air Force, and I don't think there is anything sus about him based on what i have read (tho I haven't read the cracking tower yet, still :roll: , thanks to slim or pan (slim I think) who linked to it tho) .)
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Postby slimmouse » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:54 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
Jim DeKorne is ex Air Force, and I don't think there is anything sus about him based on what i have read (tho I haven't read the cracking tower yet, still :roll: , thanks to slim or pan (slim I think) who linked to it tho) .)


Twas Pan ,

To whom I remain grateful :)

Sorry about that Jingo,

Back to the topic......
Last edited by slimmouse on Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby American Dream » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:01 pm

I know I am treading into possibly dangerous territory with regards to Shulgin, but I will point out that he was a long-time employee of the Drug Enforcement Administration at the same time he was developing new psychedelics and disseminating the formulas.

He also attends Bohemian Grove regularly, as I understand it.

Hard to say what it means for sure, but he also overlapped the circles which William Pickard ran in.

I want to be very, very clear that I am not saying this proves that Shulgin is "bad". I'm just pointing out connnections that may be of interest to RI readers.
Last edited by American Dream on Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:02 pm

Cheers Pan. I will read it one day...
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