Friday night Pandemic Watch - Swine Flu coming to you?

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Postby lightningBugout » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:10 pm

The CDC and the WHO establish standing criteria for "pandemics" years in advance. As h1n1 unfolded, they referred to those criteria and reported those milestones to a ravenous and excitable press. Hence, this was a "pandemic" as per the CDC guidelines and, in that regard, there was a real risk to h1n1, albeit one that depended on multiple factors.

Yet what "pandemic" means in the popular imagination and how the public understands it and how the media hypes it is another matter entirely.

Of course big pharma made money off the vaccine. But to reduce a huge number of different public, private, profit, non-profit, governmental, non-governmental players with roundly conflicting interests to such a simplistic equation (ie. big pharma is responsible for media hype, etc) is silly.

The devil is always, always in the details.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
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Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:35 pm

lightningBugout wrote:The CDC and the WHO establish standing criteria for "pandemics" years in advance. As h1n1 unfolded, they referred to those criteria and reported those milestones to a ravenous and excitable press. Hence, this was a "pandemic" as per the CDC guidelines and, in that regard, there was a real risk to h1n1, albeit one that depended on multiple factors.

Yet what "pandemic" means in the popular imagination and how the public understands it and how the media hypes it is another matter entirely.

Of course big pharma made money off the vaccine. But to reduce a huge number of different public, private, profit, non-profit, governmental, non-governmental players with roundly conflicting interests to such a simplistic equation (ie. big pharma is responsible for media hype, etc) is silly.

The devil is always, always in the details.


I did NOT infer that 'big pharma' was responsible for the media hype, if that's what you got from my comment. They may have played a bit part to some degree, but certainly there are many other factors -- many private, public and special interests -- that play into any global 'event' of this sort..

"Big Pharma" is just a small piece to the puzzle in the grander scheme..
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Postby lightningBugout » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:37 pm

I wasn't referring to you in particular, savant.
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Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:42 pm

lightningBugout wrote:I wasn't referring to you in particular, savant.


ah, well then -- carry on.... :wink:
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Postby vigilant » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:26 pm

Belligerent Savant wrote:
lightningBugout wrote:The CDC and the WHO establish standing criteria for "pandemics" years in advance. As h1n1 unfolded, they referred to those criteria and reported those milestones to a ravenous and excitable press. Hence, this was a "pandemic" as per the CDC guidelines and, in that regard, there was a real risk to h1n1, albeit one that depended on multiple factors.

Yet what "pandemic" means in the popular imagination and how the public understands it and how the media hypes it is another matter entirely.

Of course big pharma made money off the vaccine. But to reduce a huge number of different public, private, profit, non-profit, governmental, non-governmental players with roundly conflicting interests to such a simplistic equation (ie. big pharma is responsible for media hype, etc) is silly.

The devil is always, always in the details.


I did NOT infer that 'big pharma' was responsible for the media hype, if that's what you got from my comment. They may have played a bit part to some degree, but certainly there are many other factors -- many private, public and special interests -- that play into any global 'event' of this sort..

"Big Pharma" is just a small piece to the puzzle in the grander scheme..


You didn't but I will.

I was in medical sales for 16 years, and I was a pharma rep for part of that time. I understand how these people work, and I know how much money they have. The smaller non-profit and private agencies get the "word" and in a way their 'marching orders' from the CDC. They believe what they are told, and in good faith march forward unknowingly to to the bidding of big pharma, in an effort to help the peoples of this nation. Unwittingly, they become part of the problem through a lack of understanding.

The CDC, just like our medical schools has been co-opted by big pharma. There was a time when advertising pharma on television was illegal. It should be illegal still to this day and its shameful that it is allowed in the manner that it is.

Pharma, through television has become a vending machine. Put your money in your doctors office visit and you can have virtually anything you want from your doctor. Why is this? It is because nowdays doctors get over 600 hours education in medical school curriculum geared toward treating 'symptoms' instead of 'cause/effect' medicine. Medicine these days is 'take this and it won't hurt, take this and you won't care as much'...How does this happen?

Big pharma funds and drives most of the research, and big pharma's only goal is that you take pills for a lifetime for your symptoms. This research shows up in the textbooks of medical schools and passes for medical training, which it is not. Pharma hates cures with a passion. Anyone that doesn't realize this, well...I feel sorry for you because you will suffer if you don't take charge of your health care.

This statistic is about 4 or 5 years old. The S&P 500 stock index has 500 stocks. Five of the pharma companies in the index had larger 'profits' than the other 495 companies combined. If you think about that statistic with a serious mind, that should scare the jeebus out of ya. It should show you who has the stroke around this place. There are oil companies in that index too ya know? Think about that.

Squatting on top of certain diseases, controlling and owning the rights to treating the symptoms of those diseases, is more valuable in many instances, than selling oil these days. These 'disease turfs' are guarded just like pimps and drug dealers guard their street corners. Any cures that threaten the street corner will be dealt with swiftly and surely.

This swine flu situation, is so much a hoax, that hoax is a pure adjective for it. Identify one molecule difference in a strain of flu, give it a name like "swine flu", compare it to a killer situation like the deadly Spanish Flu, and you are in business...big time.
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Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:11 pm

great post, vigilant -- thanks for that "insider's" take on what many of us have always suspected...
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:45 pm

See link for entire article.

http://www.mndaily.com/2009/11/30/looki ... stic-brain

".....After several years as a researcher and four as a clinical psychiatrist at Case Western Reserve University, Paula Clayton, then-head of the psychiatry department, recruited Fatemi to the University of Minnesota in 1996. He wanted to combine his research background with newly gained psychiatric expertise. Almost at once, Fatemi set about studying schizophrenia and autism, two conditions that have many similarities.

In 1997, Fatemi began to study the two diseases by looking at the effect of the flu virus on pregnant mice.

He chose a particular flu strain because of its historical importance as the cause of the 1918 epidemic that killed at least 50 million people worldwide. Though it had disappeared since 1976, Fatemi thought this strain, H1N1, commonly known as swine flu, was worth studying.

Since then, he has run numerous studies, infecting mice with a sublethal dose of H1N1 on days nine, 18 and 16 of their 21-day pregnancy.

In his research, Fatemi has observed significant alterations to the brain of the baby mouse. Some vital parts of the brain — including the frontal cortex, cerebellum and hippocampus, which plays a role in memory — thinned due to the mother’s virus. Later, Fatemi’s group observed a slight level of abnormal growth in the brains — a classic symptom of autism.

The mice offspring, some of which were followed for 14 weeks, also showed behavioral traits seen in autistic patients, including social anxiety and the inability to ignore noise distractions.

During the last year, Fatemi watched as H1N1 roared back to life claiming the lives of thousands worldwide. He fielded calls from pregnant mothers who worried about getting a flu vaccine. With scientific evidence lacking, many parents blame vaccines for their children’s autism.

Fatemi was conflicted. He knows how sensitive a fetus is and would not want a pregnant woman ingesting anything she does not need. But he also knew what damage the flu can do to an unborn child.

Fatemi said that with this strain — which proved a lethal threat to pregnant mothers — the vaccine was necessary, but ideally a woman is vaccinated prior to pregnancy.

Fatemi received a stimulus grant to continue his mice study, now in its fifth year. Earlier this year, his team gave Tamiflu to mice to see if it prevented the effects on the fetal brain.

Fatemi is currently awaiting brain images of the mice, but he wrote about his unpublished findings in an editorial in the October edition of the Journal of Neuroimmunology. The article was subtitled, “Implications for the prevention of autism.”

Fatemi’s other contribution to the field is his study of the protein reelin. Reelin plays a role in the formation of the correct anatomical structure of a fetal brain. In adults, it is important in memory.

Reelin levels are abnormal in the blood and brains of people suffering from a number of psychiatric disorders. In autistic patients, reelin is reduced by as much as 90 percent.

In March 2008, Fatemi received a U.S. patent for a blood test for reelin. He is now in talks with a company that wants to produce a series of blood tests that could someday replace the current behavioral diagnosis of autism.

Fatemi said he hopes his blood test and Tamiflu experiment will help the diagnosis and treatment of autism. But he said he is always doubtful of future results, and he does not want to plan on his own breakthrough....."
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:02 pm

If this preliminary study turns out to be accurate, then should we also be giving a second look at the impact of the use of these pain medications on the ability to recover from this flu, as well as the hoped-for immunity developed from battling this flu?

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/90/34...ctiveness.html

Aspirin, Acetaminophen May Reduce Vaccine Effectiveness


Submitted by Deborah Mitchell on Dec 2nd, 2009


Use of over-the-counter drugs such as aspirin, acetaminophen (Tylenol), and ibuprofen may reduce the effectiveness of vaccines for seasonal flu and H1N1, according to researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia.

Drugs such as aspirin and acetaminophen work to relieve pain and fever by blocking the enzyme COX-1. Millions of people take aspirin daily for heart disease or pain management, and both acetaminophen and ibuprofen are also widely used for pain associated with headache, arthritis, and muscle aches.

According to Charles Brown, associate professor of veterinary pathobiology in the Missouri University College of Veterinary Medicine, people who take these drugs regularly and then get a flu shot may not have a good antibody response. The reason, notes Dr. Brown, is that these drugs block COX-1, and “if you block COX-1, you might be decreasing the amount of antibodies your body is producing.” The body requires high levels of antibodies to protect against viruses.

Previous research revealed that other drugs that inhibit COX enzymes, such as the COX-2 inhibitors, have an effect on the effectiveness of vaccines. This new research by Dr. Brown’s team suggests that drugs that inhibit COX-1 may also have a negative impact on the ability of vaccines to perform. A recent study published in Lancet warned parents not to give acetaminophen to infants after they receive a vaccine because it reduces their immune response.

At this point, the research has only been tested in animal models, but the scientists will soon be applying it to people. If they find that aspirin, acetaminophen, and other COX-1 inhibitors affect vaccine effectiveness in humans, Dr. Brown notes that individuals may be advised to not take these drugs for several weeks before and after receiving a vaccine.
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:12 pm

vigilant, one of the "forces" that you have overlooked in this flu is that of the competing interests of the pork industry, which would prefer us to be uninformed of the potential impact of this flu. Especially considering that the Secretary of Agriculture is the former governor of Iowa, a very large hog confinement state, who has been ranting at the media to stop calling this one "swine flu". He'd rather that we forgot about this flu. Lots of lobbying money in the pork industry. I noticed that the media pretty much shut down reporting about this flu, except for local infestations, fairly early on. Read through the earlier pages here.
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Postby chiggerbit » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:53 pm

http://infectious-diseases.jwatch.or...ll/2009/1202/1

Preexisting Immunity to 2009 H1N1 Influenza

Although the majority of B-cell epitopes in the 2009 H1N1 virus are new, most of the T-cell epitopes are similar to those found in past H1N1 strains.


The severity of an influenza pandemic is linked not only to the pathogenicity of new influenza strains but also to the degree of immunity that the population has to those new strains. Initial analyses of the current pandemic suggested that only individuals born before 1957 have preexisting cross-reactive antibodies to the 2009 pandemic influenza A (H1N1) virus (JW Infect Dis Sep 16 2009). Yet, the severity of disease during this pandemic has not been markedly greater than what seasonal influenza typically causes.

To better understand this discordance, investigators compared the B- and T-cell epitopes of the 2009 H1N1 virus with all known epitopes of H1N1 viruses that had circulated between 1988 and 2008. Of the 26 B-cell epitopes identified in past H1N1 viruses, only 8 (31%) were found in the 2009 H1N1 virus. However, 57 (41%) of the 139 CD4 T-cell epitopes in past H1N1 viruses — and 54 (69%) of the 78 CD8 T-cell epitopes in these viruses — were found in the current pandemic virus. The conserved epitopes existed predominantly within internal structural proteins of the 2009 H1N1 virus, rather than in the surface-exposed hemagglutinin and neuraminidase proteins.

In a separate analysis, the investigators directly assessed memory T-cell immunity, using peripheral blood mononuclear cell samples collected from 20 adult volunteers in 2007. They found that immune response to the conserved CD4 and CD8 T-cell epitopes in the 2009 H1N1 strain was on par with immune response to other epitopes in past H1N1 strains and that CD8 T-cell response was more robust than CD4 T-cell response.

Comment: Given that cross-reacting antibodies help prevent infection, and that CD8 T-cell responses contribute to ameliorating disease severity, these data help explain clinical observations associated with the current pandemic. In addition, this information suggests that optimal influenza vaccines should induce both B-cell and CD8 T-cell responses.

— Richard T. Ellison III, MD
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Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:26 am

I posted this link before -- article in The Atlantic magazine, discussing the abundant usage of flu vaccines, particularly in the U.S., and how effective they truly are, as well as the effects the 'pandemic hype' has on the populace:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

EXCERPTS:

Jackson’s findings showed that outside of flu season, the baseline risk of death among people who did not get vaccinated was approximately 60 percent higher than among those who did, lending support to the hypothesis that on average, healthy people chose to get the vaccine, while the “frail elderly” didn’t or couldn’t. In fact, the healthy-user effect explained the entire benefit that other researchers were attributing to flu vaccine, suggesting that the vaccine itself might not reduce mortality at all. Jackson’s papers “are beautiful,” says Lone Simonsen, who is a professor of global health at George Washington University, in Washington, D.C., and an internationally recognized expert in influenza and vaccine epidemiology. “They are classic studies in epidemiology, they are so carefully done.”

The results were also so unexpected that many experts simply refused to believe them. Jackson’s papers were turned down for publication in the top-ranked medical journals. One flu expert who reviewed her studies for the Journal of the American Medical Association wrote, “To accept these results would be to say that the earth is flat!” When the papers were finally published in 2006, in the less prominent International Journal of Epidemiology, they were largely ignored by doctors and public-health officials. “The answer I got,” says Jackson, “was not the right answer.”

The history of flu vaccination suggests other reasons to doubt claims that it dramatically reduces mortality. In 2004, for example, vaccine production fell behind, causing a 40 percent drop in immunization rates. Yet mortality did not rise. In addition, vaccine “mismatches” occurred in 1968 and 1997: in both years, the vaccine that had been produced in the summer protected against one set of viruses, but come winter, a different set was circulating. In effect, nobody was vaccinated. Yet death rates from all causes, including flu and the various illnesses it can exacerbate, did not budge. Sumit Majumdar, a physician and researcher at the University of Alberta, in Canada, offers another historical observation: rising rates of vaccination of the elderly over the past two decades have not coincided with a lower overall mortality rate. In 1989, only 15 percent of people over age 65 in the U.S. and Canada were vaccinated against flu. Today, more than 65 percent are immunized. Yet death rates among the elderly during flu season have increased rather than decreased.

...

The most vocal—and undoubtedly most vexing—critic of the gospel of flu vaccine is the Cochrane Collaboration’s Jefferson, who’s also an epidemiologist trained at the famed London School of Tropical Hygiene, and who, in Lisa Jackson’s view, makes other skeptics seem “moderate by comparison.” .....
Flu researchers have been fooled into thinking vaccine is more effective than the data suggest, in part, says Jefferson, by the imprecision of the statistics. The only way to know if someone has the flu—as opposed to influenza-like illness—is by putting a Q-tip into the patient’s throat or nose and running a test, which simply isn’t done that often. Likewise, nobody really has a handle on how many of the deaths that are blamed on flu were actually caused by a flu virus, because few are confirmed by a laboratory. “I used to be a family physician,” says Jefferson. “I’ve never seen a patient come to my office with H1N1 written on his forehead. When an old person dies of respiratory failure after an influenza-like illness, they nearly always get coded as influenza.”


Studies show that young, healthy people mount a glorious immune response to seasonal flu vaccine, and their response reduces their chances of getting the flu and may lessen the severity of symptoms if they do get it. But they aren’t the people who die from seasonal flu. By contrast, the elderly, particularly those over age70, don’t have a good immune response to vaccine—and they’re the ones who account for most flu deaths. (Infants with severe disabilities, such as leukemia and congenital lung disease, and people who are immune-compromised—from AIDS, or diabetes, or cancer treatment—make up the rest. As of August8, only 36 deaths from swine flu had been confirmed among children in the U.S., and the overwhelming majority of those children had multiple, severe health disorders.)

In Jefferson’s view, this raises a troubling conundrum: Is vaccine necessary for those in whom it is effective, namely the young and healthy? Conversely, is it effective in those for whom it seems to be necessary, namely the old, the very young, and the infirm?


Late last spring, as headlines and airwaves warned of a possible pandemic, patients like Newman’s began clogging emergency rooms across the country, a sneezing, coughing, infectious tide of humanity more worried than truly sick, but whose mere presence in the emergency room has endangered the lives of others. “Studies show that when there is ER crowding, mortality goes up, because patients who need immediate attention don’t get it,” says Newman, the director of clinical research in the Department of Emergency Medicine at the hospital, which is affiliated with Columbia University. In an average year the ER at St. Luke’s, a sprawling 1,076-bed hospital on 113th Street, takes in 110,000 patients, some 300 a day. At the height of the summer swine flu outbreak, that number doubled. The vast majority of panicky patients who came in the door at St. Luke’s and other emergency departments didn’t actually have the virus, and of those who did, most were not sick enough to need hospitalization. Even so, says Newman, when patients with even mild flu symptoms show up in the hospital, they vastly increase the spread of the virus, simply because they inevitably sneeze and cough in rooms that are jammed with other people.

Daniel Janies, an associate professor of biomedical informatics at Ohio State University, tracks the genetic mutations that allow flu virus to develop resistance to drugs. Flu can become resistant to Tamiflu in a matter of days, he says. Handing out the drug early in the pandemic, when H1N1 poses only a minimal threat to the vast majority of patients, strikes him as “shortsighted.”
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Postby vigilant » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:33 am

chiggerbit you have done a wonderful job of maintaining and following through with this thread and I respect you greatly for it.
The whole world is a stage...will somebody turn the lights on please?....I have to go bang my head against the wall for a while and assimilate....
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Postby vigilant » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:35 am

chiggerbit wrote:vigilant, one of the "forces" that you have overlooked in this flu is that of the competing interests of the pork industry, which would prefer us to be uninformed of the potential impact of this flu. Especially considering that the Secretary of Agriculture is the former governor of Iowa, a very large hog confinement state, who has been ranting at the media to stop calling this one "swine flu". He'd rather that we forgot about this flu. Lots of lobbying money in the pork industry. I noticed that the media pretty much shut down reporting about this flu, except for local infestations, fairly early on. Read through the earlier pages here.


You are correct, and I will do so when I get a little time...
Healthcare is one of my more passionate areas of interest.
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Postby chiggerbit » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:50 am

Late last spring, as headlines and airwaves warned of a possible pandemic, patients like Newman’s began clogging emergency rooms across the country, a sneezing, coughing, infectious tide of humanity more worried than truly sick, but whose mere presence in the emergency room has endangered the lives of others.


Well, yes, at that time there was a lot of media attention given to this flu, but then it just stopped. So I started to search for it in other ways than through the usual major MSM channels. That's about the same time that Vilsack started mooing about how this wasn't "swine" flu. He should have been "oinking".
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more info on vaccine reactions beginning to appear

Postby alwyn » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:43 am

question authority?
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