Former Ford Prez McNamara has died

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Former Ford Prez McNamara has died

Postby jingofever » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:54 pm

Link.

After his time at Ford he went on to run the World Bank. Oh, and he killed a lot of people too.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby pepsified thinker » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:59 pm

I recognize the need to hold people accountable--and McNamara had an awful lot to account for: deaths he caused not just in Vietnam, but also in planning the fire bombing of Tokyo in WW II--but his willingness to go on the record about having been so totally wrong and at such horrific cost is something I wish more politicians were willing to do.

I wish they didn't need to--but since they do, I wish they would.

His late-life confessions don't erase or make-up for his wrongs--not at all--but they're important and shouldn't be dismissed.

Even if he apologized for the wrong things, he apologized and that, times 10 to the tenth, would make for a different climate--a different set of rules to govern/guide those now in power.

It kind of reminds me of the book 'Atonement'--he can't (couldn't) ever undo what he did, but he tried to acknowledge it.

How far can a 'truth and reconciliation' approach extend in the case of high level decision makers? What is gained from allowing him to be remembered for his apologies, along with his earlier decisions and actions?

That's my take on him.

I'm wondering though, if others here--knowing more about his involvement in various matters than I do?--see his apologies as less than complete, open and sincere.

Do his efforts to put his decisions in context by explaining how high-level govt. figures were thinking (or actually not thinking) hold water? To me, they seem plausible--but they don't fit with much of the deep politics views that are RigInt 'givens', so I'll be interested to see other's thoughts.
"we must cultivate our garden"
--Voltaire
pepsified thinker
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Fog of War documentary

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:31 pm

The documentary film about McNamara's life and lessons learned is called
'The Fog of War.'

An absolute must see.

It's an amazing study of the 20th century with one man's life as a throughline from the end of WWI to his statistical efficiency work during WWII bombing to the disaster of Vietnam when tons dropped and body counts didn't win.

You get an idea of how someone with good intentions gets swept up into committing massive atrocities full of moral justifications. And then, long afterwards, can admit the mistakes and try to pass them on to the next cabal of men busy committing atrocities 'for all the right reasons.'
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby smiths » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:47 pm

yes i totally agree, someone mentioned it just the other day in the anti-american thread,

'fog of war' is a must see

for me, mcnamara was a man deeply involved in tremendous crimes but i dont see him as an evil man, unlike a lot of the others in positions of power,
i think he was totally haunted by his own involvement,
in a weird way i hope he has some kind of release now
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
User avatar
smiths
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 4:18 am
Location: perth, western australia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Fog of War documentary

Postby monster » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:47 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:The documentary film about McNamara's life and lessons learned is called
'The Fog of War.'

An absolute must see.


Agreed - awesome documentary.
"I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline."
User avatar
monster
 
Posts: 1712
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:55 pm
Location: Everywhere
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby IanEye » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:04 pm

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errol_Morris#The_Interrotron]The Interrotron

The Interrotron is a device similar to a teleprompter: Errol and his subject each sit facing a camera. The image of each person's face is then projected onto the lens of the other's camera. Instead of looking at a blank lens, then, both Morris and his subject are looking directly at a human face.
Morris believes that the machine encourages monologue in the interview process, while also encouraging the interviewees to "express themselves to camera".

The name "Interrotron" was coined by Morris's wife, who, according to Morris, "liked the name because it combined two important concepts — terror and interview."[/url]

Image
Image
User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4863
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:45 pm

He did not confess to all he was involved in.
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Postby praeclarus » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:04 pm

pepsified thinker wrote:but also in planning the fire bombing of Tokyo in WW II


That was sort of downplayed in the linked article. He actually
helped LeMay fire bomb half of fucking Japan, not just Tokyo.

And I believe the words he himself used in the the "Fog of War"
when discussing this and how LeMay might be viewed had they
lost the war were: "war criminal" not "immoral" as indicated in
the linked article. I'll have to go back and check that, going from
memory on this.

In any case, that is one of the most amazing parts of "Fog Of War",
when they list all the Japanese cities which were firebombed and
how much of each city was destroyed*. In each case they compare
the city to similarly-sized American city so you get the idea a little
more clearly

Anyway, and IMO, that is exactly what he was: a filthy
war criminal. Hopefully he is burning in hell at this moment.

On edit: they gave % of each city destroyed, not number of
casualties.

See here for a list somebody made from the "Fog Of War":
http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html

Going to have to guess at casualties in each case
but can use the claimed 100,000 in Tokyo as a guide perhaps:

"These casualty and damage figures could be low: Mark Selden wrote:
The figure of roughly 100,000 deaths, provided by Japanese and
American authorities, both of whom may have had reasons of their
own for minimizing the death toll, seems to me arguably low in light
of population density, wind conditions, and survivors' accounts. With
an average of 103,000 inhabitants per square mile and peak levels as
high as 135,000 per square mile, the highest density of any industrial
city in the world, and with firefighting measures ludicrously inadequate
to the task, 15.8 square miles (41 km2) of Tokyo were destroyed on a
night when fierce winds whipped the flames and walls of fire blocked
tens of thousands fleeing for their lives. An estimated 1.5 million people
lived in the burned out areas."

Mother and child in Tokyo. Gruesome, don't click if squeamish.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 1945-2.jpg
praeclarus
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:20 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby tal » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:19 am

July 7, 2009

May He Rest in Darkness

McNamara: From the Tokyo Firestorm to the World Bank

By ALEXANDER COCKBURN

Robert McNamara, who died yesterday, July 6, served as Kennedy’s , then as Johnson’s defense secretary. He contributed more than most to the slaughter of 3.4 million Vietnamese (his own estimate). He went on to run the World Bank, where he presided over the impoverishment, eviction from their lands and death of many millions more round the world.

Just as George Kennan, one of the architects of the Cold War, helped bolt together the ramshackle scaffolding of bogus claims that provided the rationalization for Harry Truman’s great “arms scare” in 1948, launching the postwar arms race, McNamara tugged his forelock and said “Aye, aye, Sir” when Kennedy, campaigning against Nxon in the late 1950s attacked the Eisenhower/Nixon administration for having allowed a “missile gap” to develop that had now delivered America naked and helpless into the grip of the Soviet Union.

This was the biggest lie in the history of threat inflation and remains so to this day. At the moment when Kennedy, McNamara at his elbow, was flaying the Eisenhower administration for the infamous “gap”, the U.S. government from its spy planes that the Soviet Union had precisely one missile silo with an untested missile in it. The Russians knew that the US knew this, because they were fully primed about about the U-2 spy-plane overflights, most dramatically when U-2 pilot Gary Powers crashed near Sverdlovsk and told all to his captors

So when President Kennedy and Defense Secretary McNamara, took power in 1961, became privy to all intelligence from the spy flights, and announced that the U.S. was going to build 1000 ICBMs the Russians concluded that the US planned to wipe out the Soviet Union and immediately began a missile-building program of their own. So McNamara played a crucial, enabling role in the arms race in nuclear missiles. Before the “missile gap” it has been a “bomber race”.

It was entirely appropriate and logical that he began his services to the military working in Japan as a civilian analyst for Curt LeMay, the psychopathic Air Force general who ordered the raid that produced the Tokyo firestorm and who went on to become head of the Strategic Air Command and who boasted to Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis that his missiles and B-52s were ready, willing and able to reduce the Soviet Union to a “smoldering, irradiated ruin in three hours”, a deed he was eager to accomplish.

LeMay was expert in guiding bright young systems analysts like McNamara into giving him the ex post facto intellectual rationales for enterprises on which he had long since set his mind. McNamara was an early member of the “defense intellectuals”, including Roberta and Albert Wohlstetter and Herman Kahn, who developed the whole argot of “controlled escalation”, “nuclear exchanges” and “mutual assured destruction” that kept the nuclear weapons plants, aerospace factories and nuclear labs at Los Alamos and Livermore and Oak Ridge humming along, decade after decade. McNamara liked to claim later, as he did to Errol Morris, that it was he who advised LeMay to send in his planes at lower altitude, the better to incinerate Japanese cities, but the historical record does not give him this dignity. He was a small player in LeMay’s murderous game.

He faded comfortably away. The last time we saw him vividly was in 2004 as the star of Morris's wildly over-praised, documentary The Fog of War, talking comfortably about the millions of people he's helped to kill.

Time and again, McNamara got away with it in that film, cowering in the shadow of baroque monsters like LeMay or LBJ, choking up about his choice of Kennedy's gravesite in Arlington, sniffling at the memory of Johnson giving him the Medal of Freedom, spouting nonsense about how Kennedy would have pulled out of Vietnam, muffling himself in the ever- useful camouflage of the "fog of war."

Now, the "fog of war" is a tag usually attributed to von Clausewitz, though the great German philosopher and theorist of war never actually used the phrase. Eugenia Kiesling argued a couple of years ago in Military Review that the idea of fog--unreliable information--wasn't a central preoccupation of Clausewitz. "Eliminating fog", Kiesling wrote, "gives us a clearer and more useful understanding of Clausewitz's friction. It restores uncertainty and the intangible stresses of military command to their rightful centrality in 'On War'. It allows us to replace the simplistic message that war intelligence is important with the reminder that Clausewitz constantly emphasizes moral forces in war."

As presented by McNamara, through Morris, "the fog of war" usefully deflects attention from clear and unpleasant facts entirely unobscured by fog. Roberta Wohlstetter was a pioneer in this fogging technique back in the 1950s with her heavily subsidized Pearl Harbor: Warning and Decision, which deployed the idea of distracting "noise" as the phenomenon that prevented US commanders, ultimately Roosevelt, from comprehending the information that the Japanese were about to launch a surprise attack. Wohlstetterian "noise" thus obscured the fact that FDR wanted a Japanese provocation, knew the attack was coming, though not probably not its scale and destructiveness.

When McNamara looked back down memory lane there were no real shadows, just the sunlight of moral self-satisfaction: "I don't fault Truman for dropping the bomb"; "I never saw Kennedy more shocked" (after the murder of Ngo Dinh Diem); "never would I have authorized an illegal action" (after the Tonkin Gulf fakery); "I'm very proud of my accomplishments and I'm very sorry I made errors" (his life). Slabs of instructive history, like “the missile gap”, were entirely missing from Morris's film. In his later years he offered homilies about the menace of nuclear Armageddon, just like Kennan. It was cost-free for both men to say to say such things, grazing peacefully on the tranquil mountain pastures of their senior years. Why did they not encourage weapons designers in Los Alamos to mutiny, to resign? Or say that the atom spies in Los Alamos in the 1940s were right to try to level nuclear terror to some sort of balance? Why did they not extol the Berrigans and their comrades who served or are serving decades in prison for physically attacking nuclear missiles, beating the decks of the Sea Wolf nuclear submarine with their hammers.

It’s true that when he was head of the Ford Division of the Ford Motor Company in the mid- 1950s, McNamara did push for safety options--seat belts and padded instrument panels. Ford dealer brochures for the '56 models featured photos of how Ford and GM models fared in actual crashes, to GM's disadvantage. But as Ralph Nader describes it, in December, 1955, a top GM executive called Ford's vice president for sales and said Ford's safety campaign had to stop. These Ford executives, many of them formerly from GM, had a saying, Chevy could drop its price $25 to bankrupt Chrysler, $50 to bankrupt Ford. Ford ran up the white flag. The safety sales campaign stopped. McNamara took a long vacation in Florida, his career in Detroit in the balance, and came back a team player. Safety went through the windscreen and lay in a coma for years.

McNamara had very dirty hands, however hard he and admirers like Morris scrubbed them. Why did Defense Secretary McNamara overrule all expert review and procurement recommendations and insist that General Dynamics rather than Boeing make the disastrous F-111, at that time one of the largest procurement contracts in the Pentagon's history? Could it be that Henry Crown of Chicago was calling in some chits for his role in fixing the 1960 JFK vote in Cook County, Illinois? Crown, of Chicago Sand and Gravel, had $300 million of the mob's money in GD debentures, and after the disaster of the Convair, GD needed the F-111 to avoid going belly- up, taking the mob's $300 million with it. McNamara misled Congressional investigators about this for years afterward.

To interviewers McNamara paid great stress on JFK's "shock", just a few weeks before he himself was killed, at the assassination of South Vietnam's Ngo Dinh Diem and his brother. He also promoted the view that Kennedy was planning to withdraw from Vietnam. He oversaw the fakery of the Gulf of Tonkin "attack" that prompted the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in 1964, whereby Congress gave LBJ legal authority to prosecute and escalate the war in Vietnam. He was a career "front man" for the Kennedys, called even to Chappaquiddick to help Ted Kennedy figure out what to say about it.

The Six Day War? Just before this '67 war the Israelis were ready to attack and knew they were going to win but couldn't get a clear go- ahead from the Johnson Administration. As the BBC documentary The 50 Years War narrates, Meir Amit, head of Israel's Mossad, flew to Washington. The crucial OK came from McNamara, thus launching Israel's long-planned, aggressive war on Egypt, Jordan and Syria, which led to present disasters. It was McNamara, after Israel's deliberate attack on the US ship Liberty during that war (with thirty-four US sailors dead and 174 wounded), who supervised the cover- up.

McNamara had a 13-year stint running the World Bank, whither he was dispatched by LBJ, Medal of Freedom in hand. McNamara liked to brandish his Bank years as his moral redemption and all too often his claim is accepted by those who have no knowledge of the actual, ghastly record. In fact the McNamara of the World Bank evolved naturally, organically, from the McNamara of Vietnam. The one was prolegomenon to the other, the McNamara-sponsored horrors in Vietnam perhaps on a narrower and more vivid scale, but ultimately lesser in dimension and consequence. No worthwhile portrayal of McNamara could possibly avoid McNamara's performance at the World Bank because there, within the overall constraints of the capitalist system he served, he was his own man. There was no LeMay, no LBJ issuing orders. And as his own man, McNamara amplified the ghastly blunders, corruptions and lethal cruelties of American power as inflicted upon Vietnam to a planetary scale. The best terse account of the McNamara years is in Bruce Rich's excellent history of the Bank, Mortgaging the Earth, published in 1994.

When McNamara took over the Bank, "development" loans (which were already outstripped by repayments) stood at $953 million and when he left, at $12.4 billion, which, discounting inflation, amounted to slightly more than a 6- fold increase. Just as he multiplied the troops in Vietnam, he ballooned the Bank's staff from 1,574 to 5,201. The Bank's shadow lengthened steadily over the Third World. Forests, in the Amazon, in Cameroon, in Malaysia, in Thailand, fell under the axe of "modernization". Peasants were forced from their lands. Dictators like Pinochet and Ceausescu were nourished with loans.

From Vietnam to the planet: The language of American idealism and high purpose was just the same. McNamara blared his mission of high purpose in 1973 in Nairobi, initiating the World Bank's crusade on poverty. "The powerful have a moral obligation to assist the poor and the weak." The result was disaster, draped, as in Vietnam with obsessive secrecy, empty claims of success and mostly successful efforts to extinguish internal dissent. And as with Vietnam, McNamara's obsession with statistics, produced a situation, (according to S. Shaheed Husain, then the Bank's vice president in charge of Operations) where, "without knowing it, McNamara manufactured data. If there was a gap in the numbers, he would ask staff to fill it, and others made it up for him."

At McNamara's direction the Bank would prepare five year "master country lending plans", set forth in "country programming papers. "In some cases, Rich writes, "even ministers of a nation's cabinet could not obtain access to these documents, which in smaller, poor countries, were viewed as international decrees on their economic fate."

These same "decrees" were drawn up by technocrats (in Vietnam they were the "advisers") often on the basis of a few short weeks in the target country. Corruption seethed. Most aid vanished into the hands of local elites who very often used the money to steal the resources--pasture, forest, water, of the very poor whom the Bank was professedly seeking to help. In Vietnam, Agent Orange and napalm.

Across the third world, the Bank underwrote "Green Revolution" technologies that the poorest peasants couldn't afford and that drenched land in pesticides and fertilizer. Vast infrastructural projects such as dams and kindred irrigation projects once again drove the poor from their lands, from in Brazil to India. It was the malign parable of "modernization" written across the face of the third world, with one catatrophe after another catastrophes prompted by the destruction of traditional subsistence rural economies.

The appropriation of smaller farms and common areas, Rich aptly comments, "resembled in some respects the enclosure of open lands in Britain prior to the Industrial Revolution--only this time on a global scale, intensified by Green Revolution agricultural technology." As an agent of methodical planetary destruction, McNamara should be ranked in the top tier of earth-wreckers of all time.

"Management", McNamara declared in 1967 "is the gate through which social and economic and political change, indeed change in every direction, is diffused through society." The managerial ideal for McNamara was managerial dictatorship. World Bank loans surged to Pinochet's Chile after Allende's overthrow, to Uruguay, to Argentina, to Brazil after the military coup, to the Philippines, to Suharto after the '65 coup in Indonesia.

And to the Romania of Ceausescu. McNamara poured money--$2.36 billion between 1974 and 1982--into the tyrant's hands. In 1980 Romania was the Bank's eighth biggest borrower. As McNamara crowed delightedly about his "faith in the financial morality of socialist countries" Ceausescu razed whole villages, turned hundreds of square miles of prime farm land into open- pit mines, polluted the air with coal and lignite, turned Rumania into one vast prison, applauded by the Bank in an amazing 1979 economic study as being a fine advertisement for the "Importance of Centralized Economic Control". Another section of that same 1979 report, titled "Development of Human Resources", featured these chilling words: "To improve the standards of living of the population as a beneficiary of the development process, the government has pursued policies to make better use of the population as a factor of production... An essential feature of the overall manpower policy has been ... to stimulate an increase in birth rates." Ceausescu forbade abortions, and cut off disrtribution of contraceptives. Result: ten of thousand of abandoned children, dumped in orphanages, another sacrificial hecatomb in McNamara's lethal hubris.

In his later years, McNamara never offered any reflection on the social system that produced and promoted him, a perfectly nice, well- spoken war criminal. As his inflation of his role in the foe- bombing of Japan showed, he could go so far as to falsely though complacently indict himself, while still shirking bigger, more terrifying and certainly more useful reflections on the system that blessed him and mercilessly killed millions upon millions under FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon.

Like Speer, he got away with it, never having to hang his head or drop through a trap door with a rope around his neck, as he richly deserved.



link
tal
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby pepsified thinker » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:52 pm

I guess the last posting's fuller account is what I expected/wondered about. Though some of its charges are asserted/stated, without any supporting, fuller discussion--for example, the characterization of Morris' Fog of War--I'm glad for the fuller accounting of MacNamara's record. It sharpens the point of the question of just how much wrong-doing a figure like MacNamara can do/did do, and how much credit/forgiveness he deserves for his later 'apologias'.

Here's another unrelenting obit, by Joe Galloway--I don't know much about Galloway but recall that he made aminor stir by coming out strongly against Bush with re the war in Iraq; Galloway's famous as a war correspondent (here's wikipedia on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_L._Galloway):


Commentary: Galloway on McNamara: Reading an obit with great pleasure

By Joseph L. Galloway | McClatchy Newspapers
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." —Clarence Darrow (1857–1938)

Well, the aptly named Robert Strange McNamara has finally shuffled off to join LBJ and Dick Nixon in the 7th level of Hell.

McNamara was the original bean-counter — a man who knew the cost of everything but the worth of nothing.

Back in 1990 I had a series of strange phone conversations with McMamara while doing research for my book We Were Soldiers Once And Young. McNamara prefaced every conversation with this: "I do not want to comment on the record for fear that I might distort history in the process." Then he would proceed to talk for an hour, doing precisely that with answers that were disingenuous in the extreme — when they were not bald-faced lies.

Upon hanging up I would call Neil Sheehan and David Halberstam and run McNamara's comments past them for deconstruction and the addition of the truth.

The only disagreement i ever had with Dave Halberstam was over the question of which of us hated him the most. In retrospect, it was Halberstam.

When McNamara published his first book — filled with those distortions of history — Halberstam, at his own expense, set out on a journey following McNamara on his book tour around America as a one-man truth squad.

McNamara abandoned the tour.

The most bizarre incident involving McNamara occurred when he was president of the World Bank and, off on his summer holiday, he caught the Martha's Vineyard ferry. It was a night crossing in bad weather. McNamara was in the salon, drink in hand, schmoozing with fellow passengers. On the deck outside a vineyard local, a hippie artist, glanced through the window and did a double-take. The artist was outraged to see McNamara, whom he viewed as a war criminal, so enjoying himself.

He immediately opened the door and told McNamara there was a radiophone call for him on the bridge. McNamara set down his drink and stepped outside. The artist immediately grabbed him, wrestled him to the railing and pushed him over the side. McNamara managed to get his fingers through the holes in the metal plate that ran from the top of the railing to the scuppers.

McNamara was screaming bloody murder; the artist was prying his fingers loose one at a time. Someone heard the racket and raced out and pulled the artist off.

By the time the ferry docked in the vineyard McNamara had decided against filing charges against the artist, and he was freed and walked away.


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/71328.html

The comments posted generally hi-five Galloway for his take on MacNamara.
"we must cultivate our garden"
--Voltaire
pepsified thinker
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby pepsified thinker » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:14 pm

Galloway's column mentions an attempt to throw MacNamara from a Martha's Vinyard ferryboat. Here's more on that:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/when-an-artist-angry-abou_b_226870.html
"we must cultivate our garden"
--Voltaire
pepsified thinker
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby IanEye » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:56 pm

Image
User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4863
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Postby Sweejak » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:48 pm

Two radio interviews

Gareth Porter:
Evidence that McNamara never told LBJ re Gulf of Tonkin
http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/07/07/gareth-porter-58/

And Daniel Ellesburg:
McNamara role in hiding evidence that the 2nd Gulf of Tonkin never happened.
http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/07/07/daniel-ellsberg-4/
User avatar
Sweejak
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Border Region 5
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:16 am

Alexander Cockburn took the opportunity to drop a bomb of his own in his McNamara piece.

Alexander Cockburn wrote:The last time we saw him vividly was in 2004 as the star of Morris's wildly over-praised, documentary The Fog of War, talking comfortably about the millions of people he's helped to kill.

Time and again, McNamara got away with it in that film, cowering in the shadow of baroque monsters like LeMay or LBJ, choking up about his choice of Kennedy's gravesite in Arlington, sniffling at the memory of Johnson giving him the Medal of Freedom, spouting nonsense about how Kennedy would have pulled out of Vietnam, muffling himself in the ever- useful camouflage of the "fog of war."

This is Cockburn denying the single most important document from the Vietnam War, NSAM 263.

Cockburn is 'anti-conspiracy theorist' and denies anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK. He's also a 9/11 official story promoter, no surprise, and hosts government disinformationists like Manuel Garcia from Livermore Labs on his website.

That's why Cockburn, Like Noam Chomsky, has to deny the history of National Security Advisory Memorandum 263 which JFK signed on October 11, 1963 to begin the end of US military involvement in Vietnam with a token withdrawal to be followed by the rest after 1964. Kennedy was already besieged by rabid commie-haters and knew he couldn't get away with the full withdrawal until after his re-election. Lt. Col. L. Fletcher Prouty was involved in JFK's efforts to establish this change in policy and document it. NSAM 273 was drafted the day before JFK was killed and then signed a few days later by LBJ thereby putting the show back on the road for 10 more years of slaughterous profiteering.

The 'anti-conspiracy theory' gatekeepers have to deny Kennedy's NSAM 263 history because it provides a big motive for a widespread high-level plot by interlocking agencies to carry out an assassination plot.

Other than this, most of Cockburn's accusations against McNamara are valid.
Except that nobody should watch 'The Fog of War' and take McNamara's presentation of himself at face value, obviously.

But you shouldn't miss the chance to watch an American Secretary of War admit "we were war criminals." Probably the only time this will happen. And it is true of every one of them.

This audio excerpt was played on Amy Goodman's Democracy Now news show today. Howard Zinn sputtered incoherently with misleading characterizations of McNamara's motives.

Oddly, in Zinn's 2008 graphic novelization of his 'A People's History of American Empire' the entire JFK term was left out, a convenient way to avoid NSAM 263 and the assassination. Zinn has repeatedly denied the value of exposing JFK's murder and 9/11, too. Maybe he's just old and tired.

BUT if JFK hadn't been killed, McNamara wouldn't have had to ride the mil-intel tiger that was determined to hunt in Vietnam and which ate anyone who got in the way.

Just ask ex-CIA whistleblower, Ralph McGehee, who did the analysis that proved the CIA's assessment of enemy numbers was so far off that the war was unwinnable and so he was shunted off to a basement corner to await retirement after he told William Colby the bad news right to his face. To cover for this meeting, McGehee was briefly restationed in Vietnam and Colby staged a media event for reporters by having them trail along as he asked a gathering of intel people how their analysis was going. McGehee could only say he'd just arrived and didn't have anything yet. At the following drinking reception, Colby stuck to McGehee like glue so all the journos could see them. McGehee says in his book that he had no idea why Colby was doing this but it is pretty obvious this was a decoy for the original 'we can't win' briefing McGehee had previously given Colby. Colby covered both his and the CIA's ass by visibly making McGehee look ignorant.

When McGehee's book, 'Deadly Deceits,' was finally going to be published in 1982 after months of CIA efforts to delete passages, the spooks at CIA-CBS pre-empted McGehee's expose of CIA fudging analysis by accusing General Westmoreland at the Pentagon of committing this deception. This resulted in Westmoreland's lengthy libel suit against CIA-CBS that was eventually settled out of court but the CIA had managed to deflect their crimes onto the Pentagon just in time.
See 'Pentagon Papers.' Much the same tactic.

The same trick was just used by the CIA-NYTimes with it's 'expose' of retired Pentagon generals acting as media mouthpieces to promote and sustain the invasion of Iraq.The NYTimes journo who wrote this up won the CIA-NYTimes a prize. Anyone remember a CIA-NYTimes reporter named Judith Miller. I seem to recall she had a lot to do with the invasion of Iraq and if she isn't a spook, I don't know who is.

Learn your Vietnam history and you'll have a template for current war-mongering.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
User avatar
Hugh Manatee Wins
 
Posts: 9869
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: in context
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby compared2what? » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:52 am

Alex Cockburn beats the same drum no matter what he's writing about.

But I don't see how that makes McNamara any less of an unrepentant, unredeemed war criminal than he lived and died as, in reality

I mean, breaking down while sharing your thoughtful reflections on the war crimes you're willing to admit to while being interviewed by a universally admired documentarian for what would turn out to be an Academy-Award-winning movie (that also happens to totally rehabilitate your tarnished legacy, as well as rebrand your image in a way that has a direct beneficial impact on your earned-income potential) just isn't that heavy a penance. Considering what there was to repent.

As Wiki so lifelessly yet succinctly puts it, while neutrally not drawing the obvious conclusion:

    Morris interviewed McNamara for some twenty hours; the two-hour documentary comprises eleven lessons from In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam (1995). He posits, discourses upon, and propounds the lessons in the interview that is The Fog of War. Moreover, at the U.C. Berkeley event, McNamara disagreed with Morris's interpretations in The Fog of War, yet, on completion, McNamara supplemented the original, eleven lessons with an additional, ten lessons; they are in The Fog of War DVD.

    When asked to apply the eleven lessons from In Retrospect to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, McNamara refused, arguing that ex-secretaries of defense must not comment upon the incumbent defense secretary's policies. He suggested other people could apply the eleven lessons to the war in Iraq, but that he would not, noting that the lessons are generally about war, not a specific war.


IOW, McNamara replied: "It's one thing to give audiences the illusory but very comforting impression that Bad Dads aren't really Bad at heart, but rather Good Dads Trapped in the Closet of History and Their Own Personal Limitations, as long as the millions of lives that were once at stake ceased being of any very pressing concern to the public decades ago and I'm reasonably confident that I'll gain more from it than the public will. But Iraq? What's in it for me? Yeah, I thought not. Well, next time, please try to remember that I am a Professional. So if you'll just step aside, I have someplace to be. The war must go on."

It was an excellent movie, and I'm not saying otherwise. But it was just a movie. His life was something else entirely.
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests