How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:45 pm

Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:05 am wrote:Given your expertise, could we play out a thought experiment? If we could go back in time about 550 years, how do you think humans could peacefully and sustainably come and live together in North America without making the developmental mistakes of the Industrial Revolution? Nothing is off the table or too far into the realm of science fiction for me.

In 1500, how healthy were North America's wildernesses? How often did the people who lived here before use utilize thinning and prescribed fire? I don't think it's impossible for humans in greater numbers to have lived in harmony with them.

I'm going camping near a virgin forest this weekend in a very remote place and will be doing some hiking around in the designated Wild Areas. The guide says solitude is "almost guaranteed". I am looking forward to seeing a landscape like that for only the second time in my life and the first time being specifically conscientious of what "it means". I plan on meditating on what it would have meant for people to have thrived in a vast environment like that.


I do not think that we could have grown nor maintained any where near the same populations nor had the industrial revolution and maintained the same expanse nor quality of forest cover. Forests were exploited and at times considered a hindrance. Many of the low elevation forests of the best soils have long been removed from forest cover for urbanization or agriculture.

Many forest and plant communities have co-evolved with fire as a driver of ecological conditions with fire being required for regeneration or maintenance of specific kinds of forest. Long leaf pine in the Southeast and ponderosa pine in the West are good examples of forest types that co-evolved with fire and that were deliberately burned by aboriginals. The last 500 years has seen a degradation and shrinking extent of this type of primeval forest; the featured species were selectively removed and incidentally or deliberately replaced by other species. The stands have not been allowed to reach the same age. The more frequent low intensity ground fires have been replaced by catastrophic fires. Stressors of the forest often are multiple and re-enforcing. Drought and insects. Fire and soil pathogens. Some combinations of fire and thinning are the ecological path to the improve the vigor and health individual trees, stands, and landscapes.

IMHO most attempts to applied agriculture models to forest management are by their nature ill-conceived for the stability and net productivity of forest ecosystems. Forest Health is a hazy and political term. I find terms such as stability, net productivity, biodiversity, resilience, age and size and volume classes, species present, plant associations, etc. more useful. Humans have cornered ourselves where the choice to do no active management is in itself active management. What may seem "Wilderness" in law or effect on the National Forests is coded as polygons on maps and GIS, data recorded, and scenarios modeled and set as policy.

Aboriginal people regularly used fire for cultural purposes; specifically to favor certain plants or animals and to maintain a more open character of the forest. The aboriginal management is most evident in the conifer forests of the West and Southeast.

The initial European settlers cleared forests for living space and agriculture land and used wood fuel and building material as populations moved East to West across the continent.

Wood was the primary energy source for the nascent industrial revolution. Much of the forest in the Northeast USA, specifically New England, was cleared for wood fuel and small agriculture plots. The extent of forest in the northeast has been re-occupying forest land that was once cleared for at least the last 100 years. The forests of the Northeast are notable for the old stone fences and other ruins. The Eastern White Pine and American Elm that were the monarchs of the forest and utilitarian species at European contact have diminished in import because their populations have been severely impacted by white pine blister rust and Dutch Elm disease, both introduced pathogens.

Pine forest was removed from forest cover and converted to cotton and other agriculture in the Southeast. A long term trend in the Southeast (like the Northeast) has been the growth of forest cover, much in pine plantations on land that was once cleared for cotton.

The early timber industry depended upon water for transportation until the railroads and then mobile equipment and trucks. Forests were cut with little regard as the timber industry moved on for new forests to exploit. Sometimes, particularly in the Lake States, wildfire raged across the cutover lands. Forest industry traveled from the Northeast to the Southeast and Lake States and then to the West. Forest industry has shifted back to the Southeast from the West in the last 25 years. Railroads were important to the exploitation of western forests in land ownership patterns and removal of forests from the public domain. Typically, the railroads were allocated alternate sections for six miles on each side of the railroad. This is how much of the corporate timberland in the West came to private ownership. The railroads and their successors achieved an economic windfall and did not act in good faith regards to the process whereas they gained title.

I find the forests of Southeast Alaska of interest because they are so young, having been under ice in the last ice age and very simple in species mix and function. The two overwhelmingly dominant species are Western Hemlock and Sitka spruce with Alaska Yellow Cedar replacing Western Red Cedar as one moves west. The soils are shallow and wet; wind throw and mass movement are regenerating events rather than fire. The fires one hears about in Alaska are mostly tundra and brush rather than forests that are or could be commercial forests. The cedars were most important to the aboriginal people for boats, homes, and totem poles.

Commercial forests, woodlands, and Wilderness, Parks, and other set-asides are important to differentiate for ecological, spiritual, and utilitarian values. I would like to see more old forests, both commercial and non-commercial. Old forests take faith. One may create low hanging fruit for more exploitive folks. Old forests also make ecologic sense. Individuals and humanity in general are doomed. One way to ease our doom is to be kind to the forests and the plants and creatures resident.

To me there is no other perception like being in a forested Wilderness (legal) or wilderness (function). Forest complexity is Escher and fractal; forests rhyme and harmonize and integrate history. The nature of man is to fight Nature rather than fit into a flow. I grew up within a National Forest and went to work as a USFS aide summers age 16 rather than spend time in Dad's gravel quarry. Seeing what was going on, the limits of the primary forest, sent me on an idealistic quest to university. The times spent in the forest are the best and truest of my life, better than rock and roll or romantic love. I am sad for humanity: too many, too territorial, and too violent. People won't see the same quality of forests (and we should) until human population is greatly reduced and attitudes change.

Sorry my response is so general.

Enjoy your trip.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:13 pm

The forests are sad for us as well.

I have told this story many a time here and elsewhere, but here she goes again. There are more details, but this is the one I found most readily.
A couple of years ago I was camping near the base of Mt. Rainier in old growth forest. (Yes I had gotten stoned). But the trees, yes the trees, spoke to me. Literally spoke to me. Or maybe, communed with my psyche in some way. But I couldn't believe how much sense they made.

The trees are essentially a global intelligence that has existed for eons and eons and eons. . . . Intensely more intelligent and simple than any form of technology we have.

They felt sorry for us humans that we must destroy them for our temporary needs. But they do not care. For when we kill them, we will finally kill ourselves. The pinecones, seeds, blossoms are always to be safely buried. They go on, they are more intelligent and patient . It takes many years for a thought to emerge from the global forest, but when it is finally thought it is a thought some humans can detect.

They also "gaze" at the stars every night. Don't know a thing about our technology and don't care. Every night, for sometimes thousands of years, the same vastness of the universe.

They don't mind if we cut them down. We're only killing ourselves. This they understand.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:15 pm

New study reveals the possibility of hurricanes ‘unlike anything you’ve seen in history’

By Chris Mooney August 31

Image

Last week, the nation focused its attention on the 10-year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, the most destructive hurricane in U.S. history. As bad as the storm was, though, it wasn’t the worst storm that could have possibly hit New Orleans.

That’s true of many, many other places, too. And now, in a new study in Nature Climate Change, Princeton’s Ning Lin and MIT’s Kerry Emanuel demonstrate that when it comes to three global cities in particular — Tampa, Fla., Cairns, Australia, and Dubai, United Arab Emirates — there could come a storm that is much worse than anything in recent memory (or in any memory).

Granted, these theoretical storms are also highly unlikely to occur — in some cases, they are 1-in-10,000-year events, or even rarer. The researchers refer to these possible storms as “gray swans,” riffing on the concept of a “black swan” event, an unpredictable catastrophe, or highly impactful event. A “gray swan,” by contrast, can indeed be predicted, even if it is extremely rare.

The purpose of the study is “to raise awareness of what a very low probability, very high impact hurricane event might look like,” said Emanuel. The gray swan storms were generated by a computer model that “coupled” together, in the researchers’ parlance, a very high-resolution hurricane model with a global climate model. That allowed the researchers to populate the simulated world with oodles of different storms.

“When you do hundreds and hundreds of thousands of events, you’re going to see hurricanes that are unlike anything you’ve seen in history,” said Emanuel, a key theoretician behind the equations determining the “maximum potential intensity” of a hurricane in a given climate. Indeed, he has published in the past that a theoretical “hypercane” with winds approaching 500 miles per hour is possible in scenarios where an asteroid hits the Earth and radically heats up ocean waters, far beyond their normal temperature.

So what did the researchers see? Let’s take Tampa Bay, first. It hasn’t been hit by a major hurricane since 1921 — but that storm drove a 3- to 3.5-meter (10- to 11-foot) storm surge and caused dramatic damage. Earlier, in 1848, another storm produced a 4.6-meter surge (about 15 feet).

Why is Tampa Bay so vulnerable? Check out any good map that shows the water depth (the bathymetry) around the Florida peninsula. It’s deep off the east coast. But there’s an extraordinarily broad continental shelf off the west coast. And although the city of Tampa, proper, sits at the head of Tampa Bay, relatively far from the mouth and well removed from the barrier islands that get battered by the waves from the Gulf of Mexico, that’s a more vulnerable spot than you’d think.

“One can get much larger surges where the offshore waters are shallow, as is true along the west, but not the east coast of Florida. Also, surges can amplify by being funneled into bays,” Emanuel said Monday in an e-mail.

The new method allows the researchers to show that a worse storm than these historical examples is possible, especially with sea level rise and global warming. They simulated 2,100 possible Tampa Bay hurricanes in the current climate, and then 3,100 each for three time periods (2006 through 2036, 2037 through 2067, and 2068 through 2098) in an unchecked global warming scenario.

In the current climate, the study found that a 5.9-meter (19-foot) storm surge is possible, in a strong Category 3 hurricane following a similar track to Tampa’s classic 1921 and 1848 storms. Moreover, in a late 21st century climate with global warming run amok, the worst-case scenario generated by the model included a very different storm track, moving north along Florida’s Gulf Coast and then swerving inland at Tampa, that generated an 11.1-meter (nearly 37-foot) surge.

Granted, the study said that these two “gray swans” are exceedingly unlikely — less than 1 in 10,000 years for the 5.9-meter surge in the current climate. But it also said that global warming shifts the odds toward the worse surges.

"The more publicity of the hurricane risk in Tampa, the better,” Emanuel said.

The study also shows that for Cairns, Australia, a 5.7-meter (18-foot) storm surge is possible in the current climate, but that would happen less than once in 10,000 years. And perhaps most strikingly, it also suggests that an extremely powerful hurricane is theoretically possible where we’ve never yet seen them occur — the Persian Gulf.

The waters in the Persian Gulf are very hot and so contain considerable potential hurricane energy, but the atmosphere is normally too dry for hurricanes, Emanuel explained. Nonetheless, “physics says that you can have one,” he said. “‘It’s not likely, but it’s not impossible.”

Indeed, there have been several hurricanes or tropical storms that have entered the Arabian Sea, though none have made it into the Persian Gulf. But the study showed that in extraordinarily rare circumstances, it’s also possible for a hurricane to be generated there.

Indeed, it found that with 3,100 simulated events in today’s climate, it is theoretically possible to get a hurricane with winds of over 250 miles per hour — stronger than anything we’ve seen on Earth — and a storm surge of 7.4 meters (24 feet) affecting Dubai. Granted, it is hard to emphasize enough that this is a rare phenomenon — storms like this have “return periods of the order of 30,000–200,000 years,” the study said.

So, is all of this just a mathematical exercise — or something more? In the end, it’s kind of in the eye of the beholder, as it’s up to us to decide how much to worry, if at all, about an extraordinarily rare event. But you could make the case that a study like this helps us think a lot better about what risk is all about.

“You go out on the tail, the risk gets tinier and tinier and tinier, but the consequences of that event get exponentially larger,” Emanuel said.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby NeonLX » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:14 pm

The question has been bugging me for some time...why is "the end" happening during my span of living? All these generations of humans, eon upon eon, and the shit has to hit the fan during "my" time.

When I was young, I considered the universe to be malevolent towards me...I didn't belong in it and it was "wrong" that I was born. Reading Guy McPherson et. al. has convinced me that we are on the verge of environmental catastrophe that will ramp up quickly and viciously. And it will happen while I exist in this universe.

Sorry for the paranoia, but as I've said before, I am some kind of weird opposite to King Midas...everything I touch turns to shit.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:36 pm

NeonLX » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:14 pm wrote:The question has been bugging me for some time...why is "the end" happening during my span of living? All these generations of humans, eon upon eon, and the shit has to hit the fan during "my" time.

When I was young, I considered the universe to be malevolent towards me...I didn't belong in it and it was "wrong" that I was born. Reading Guy McPherson et. al. has convinced me that we are on the verge of environmental catastrophe that will ramp up quickly and viciously. And it will happen while I exist in this universe.

Sorry for the paranoia, but as I've said before, I am some kind of weird opposite to King Midas...everything I touch turns to shit.


Well, we do have pretty good odds of being alive in this moment, don't feel too bad. Our current global population at around 7.267 billion is about 6.7% of the total number of people who have ever lived. We are in it together and can support one another.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:12 pm

NeonLX » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:14 am wrote:The question has been bugging me for some time...why is "the end" happening during my span of living? All these generations of humans, eon upon eon, and the shit has to hit the fan during "my" time.

When I was young, I considered the universe to be malevolent towards me...I didn't belong in it and it was "wrong" that I was born. Reading Guy McPherson et. al. has convinced me that we are on the verge of environmental catastrophe that will ramp up quickly and viciously. And it will happen while I exist in this universe.

Sorry for the paranoia, but as I've said before, I am some kind of weird opposite to King Midas...everything I touch turns to shit.


Hardly! Though I don't know you personally (yet) I think I do love you, homie. You are a great and loving soul and I admire you.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:16 pm

And your cats!
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:20 pm

And your Native American girlfriend. Just consider being here at this very special time is a blessing. We're all alive at this particular time for a reason, so we might as well roll with it If we or our knowledge survive maybe it will make a difference in the next grand cycle of life on this planet. :thumbsup
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby NeonLX » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:07 pm

I just hope that my being here (in this universe) hasn't wrecked it for the rest of you lot.

Don't ever stand in the same checkout line at the grocery store that I'm in. I can guaran-damn-tee you that it will be the slowest line in the place.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby norton ash » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:37 pm

Hey, it could be 500 years ago and you've got an abcessed tooth, a broken leg, the bishop is hot for your wife, it's freezing cold, and you'll be hanged for cutting firewood. May we all live in interesting times.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:41 am

NeonLX » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:07 pm wrote:I just hope that my being here (in this universe) hasn't wrecked it for the rest of you lot.

Don't ever stand in the same checkout line at the grocery store that I'm in. I can guaran-damn-tee you that it will be the slowest line in the place.


You must be using quick scan. I swear it takes me five minutes longer to use that shit even though it is straight forward.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby NeonLX » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:11 pm

I either get behind the person who is paying in pennies, or the one who can't figure out how to key in the code of their debit/credit card.

Always.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:04 pm

This is climate change: Alaskan villagers struggle as island is chewed up by the sea

By MARIA L. LA GANGA

This is what climate change looks like, up close and personal.

In this town of 403 residents 83 miles above the Arctic Circle, beaches are disappearing, ice is melting, temperatures are rising, and the barrier reef Kivalina calls home gets smaller and smaller with every storm.

There is no space left to build homes for the living. The dead are now flown to the mainland so the ocean won't encroach upon their graves. Most here agree that the town should be relocated; where, when and who will pay for it are the big questions. The Army Corps of Engineers figures Kivalina will be underwater in the next decade or so.

Because the town's days on the edge of the Chukchi Sea are numbered, no money has been invested to improve residents' lives. Eighty percent of the homes do not have toilets. Most rely on homemade honey buckets — a receptacle lined with a garbage bag topped by a toilet seat.

Residents haul water from tanks in the middle of town, 25 cents for five gallons. The school is overcrowded. Still, the unpaved streets here ring with the laughter of children, the buzz of all-terrain vehicles, the whoosh of the wind.

Earlier this summer, White House advance staff cased the slender, apostrophe-shaped island to see whether President Obama could get here during his visit to the Arctic this week — the first by a sitting White House occupant. At the very least, he is scheduled to visit Kotzebue, less than 100 miles away, the heart of Alaska's Northwest Arctic Borough.

Obama has high hopes for addressing climate change during his remaining time in office. The Alaska trip is part of a global warming tour. In Washington he will talk environmental issues with Pope Francis in late September, and in Paris he will attend the United Nations Climate Change Conference in November.

The Alaska trip is part of an effort to "speak openly, honestly and frequently about how climate change is already affecting the lives of Americans and the strength and health of our economy," senior White House advisor Brian Deese said.

Alaskans, Obama said Saturday in his weekly address, are already living with climate change's effects: "More frequent and extensive wildfires. Bigger storm surges as sea ice melts faster. Some of the swiftest shoreline erosion in the world — in some places, more than 3 feet a year.

"Alaska's glaciers are melting faster too," he said, "threatening tourism and adding to rising seas. And if we do nothing, Alaskan temperatures are projected to rise between six and 12 degrees by the end of the century, changing all sorts of industries forever."

Although Obama views this state as the U.S. poster child for climate change, some Alaskans beg to differ. They are glad the president agreed to allow limited offshore oil exploration. They want more access to the vast state's natural resources. And they are wary of a leader who views their home as a global warming disaster area.

Gov. Bill Walker, who will meet with Obama during his visit to the Last Frontier, said he wants the president to support a natural gas pipeline and allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

But most of all, the independent governor said in a news conference Tuesday, he doesn't want the Lower 48 to achieve its environmental goals on the backs of Alaskans by barring access to natural resources.

"We probably have the smallest footprint per capita in the nation, if not the world, on impacting climate change," Walker said. "We have some impacts, there's no question, but ... I'm going to talk a lot about the economic climate change that we're experiencing today. That's really what my focus is going to be on with the president."

Shelby Adams has a different message for Obama. That is, if she gets to talk to him when he travels more than 3,600 miles from the Beltway to see the Arctic with his own eyes. Shelby, who just turned 13, has lived in Kivalina her entire life, and she loves her island home dearly.

"It's where I grew up, where everybody I know is," she said five days before Obama was scheduled to land in Kotzebue. "We need to relocate because the ocean is slowly eating away our island."

Shelby was in fourth grade when much of Kivalina was forced to evacuate during a fierce storm in 2011. She and her family were on one of the few planes that made it to the mainland before flying conditions became too dangerous. Everyone else sheltered in the school, the highest point on the nearly flat island.

"We had people sleeping in all the classrooms and the gym," said Emma Knowles, who was Shelby's teacher at McQueen School that year. "Someone had gotten a caribou the day before, so we made a huge pot of caribou stew.... The school didn't even budge. As dilapidated as it looks, it survived."

Kivalina is no stranger to harsh weather, and erosion worries have dogged the 27-acre town almost since its inception in 1905. In the 21st century, however, warming temperatures and the perilous changes that cascade from them have stripped the island of its major source of protection: ice.

Normally each fall, ice begins hugging the Kivalina shoreline around the end of October and stays until the end of June. Even during fierce storms, ice keeps the raging ocean away. But climate change has caused the ice to appear later and melt earlier, leaving the barrier island more vulnerable to storm surges.

Thinner ice also makes it harder for the Inupiat to go whaling. Normally, crews will build camps at the edge of the so-called shore-fast ice and hunt bowhead and beluga whales as they swim north in spring.

"If the shore-fast ice is thin and weak, it's not safe to make a camp," said Timothy Schuerch, president of the Maniilaq Assn., a tribally operated health services organization with clinics in Kivalina and the other borough villages. "Whaling crews have drifted out to sea."

The Inupiat who live in Kivalina get most of their food from the land and sea around them. The increasingly warm weather means an abundance of cloudberries and low-bush blackberries, said Millie Hawley, Kivalina tribal president, but it also threatens many of the food staples on which Alaska natives here depend.

"With the caribou, usually it's like clockwork," Hawley said. "Every June, we'd hunt. We haven't done that in years. It's unpredictable. We don't know when we'll see them."

Kivalina residents hang the caribou's hindquarters outside of their homes to age. The frozen meat is eaten raw, dipped in seal oil, which is also harvested in June. Trout is eaten the same way. The Inupiat also depend on seal for meat.

"Usually we get 80 to 100 seals for the whole community," Hawley said. "This year, we were looking to get eight. The community now has to go without dried meat and oil."

When their traditional foods become scarce, island residents must depend on the Kivalina Native Store, the only one in town. Kivalina is closer to Russia than it is to Anchorage, and nearly all supplies are shipped here by air. Which accounts for astronomical prices:

A quart of shelf-stable whole milk runs $4.19. A can of Campbell's tomato soup is $2.95. A 5-pound bag of unbleached, all-purpose flour is $8.75. A 25.5-ounce bottle of Bertolli extra virgin olive oil is $23.79.


The store is Kivalina's pride and joy, the newest building in this wind-battered town. The old store burned down in December. Its replacement opened in July. It is big, clean, warm and well-stocked. And it stands out in a town of peeling paint and crowded, threatened structures, most on short stilts to protect from flooding.

The school, attended by 154 students from pre-kindergarten through high school, is so jammed that every available space is used for storage. Hallways, stairwells and classrooms are lined with books and supplies. A working washing machine stands at the end of one hall.

The main drags, Bering and Channel streets, are unpaved, their gravel surfaces deeply rutted from the rain and the ATVs that residents use to get around in summer.

Small houses crowd together; each is home to extended families, some of up to 17 or so. At least two houses, Hawley said, are in imminent danger of tumbling into the water. The cemetery lines Kivalina's slender runway, its crosses visible on takeoff and landing.

Because of erosion, there is almost no room to build, Hawley said, so "we break every state and federal regulation. The airport is supposed to be a mile or a mile and a half from the dump. It's 500 feet away."

The fuel tanks that run the power plant were in danger of falling into the Chukchi Sea, so the town moved them to higher, safer ground. Fifty feet away is a small cluster of housing for teachers, which cozies up right next to the school.

When Hawley is asked why her people don't move — somewhere, anywhere to be safe — she is polite but firm. The land and the water make the Inupiat who they are. If they moved to Kotzebue, they would be visitors.

Moving to Anchorage or Fairbanks, she said, "would be like asking us not to be a people any more."


So what does she want to tell the leader of the free world when she greets him next week — in Kotzebue, if not Kivalina?

"We are American citizens," she said, fast and fierce. "We have as much right as all of America to have access to the resources Washington provides. ... If you are going to provide millions of dollars to stop hunger in Africa, my people are hungry. Stop hunger here."
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby lucky » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:24 am

FWIW on radio 4 yesterday they were talking about el nino - which should have occured last year but may now come this year and be particularly violent as the Pacific is already 2 degrees warmer in the central area. I don't understand the science an awful lot, but with a starting point at that level and with el nino pushing up the heat further I'm rather surprised that more of this hasn't hit the MSM - batten down the hatches boys n girls.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Nordic » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:21 pm

lucky » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:24 am wrote:FWIW on radio 4 yesterday they were talking about el nino - which should have occured last year but may now come this year and be particularly violent as the Pacific is already 2 degrees warmer in the central area. I don't understand the science an awful lot, but with a starting point at that level and with el nino pushing up the heat further I'm rather surprised that more of this hasn't hit the MSM - batten down the hatches boys n girls.


MSM or not, here in Los Angeles everybody I know is already talking about it.

Most are happy in that it should refill those reservoirs do we can get back to washing our 8 million cars every couple of days.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
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