How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:18 pm

DrEvil » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:55 am wrote:Category 5 is "complete destruction", so Cat 6 would be pointless (unless hurricanes start scouring things down to the bedrock, at which point the category would be the least of our worries).


That is theoretically possible with global warming. Well, maybe not this year, but give humanity time, we'll find a way to achieve it!

From Wikipedia:

A hypercane is a hypothetical class of extreme tropical cyclone that could form if ocean temperatures reached 50 °C (122 °F), which is 15 °C (27 °F) warmer than the warmest ocean temperature ever recorded.[1] Such an increase could be caused by a large asteroid or comet impact, a large supervolcanic eruption, or extensive global warming.[2] There is some speculation that a series of hypercanes resulting from an impact by a large asteroid or comet contributed to the demise of the non-avian dinosaurs. The hypothesis was created by Kerry Emanuel of MIT who also coined the term.[3][4][5]

In order to form a hypercane, according to Emanuel's hypothetical model, the ocean temperature would have to be 48 °C (120 °F). A critical difference between a hypercane and present-day hurricanes is that a hypercane would extend into the upper stratosphere, whereas present-day hurricanes extend into only the lower stratosphere.[6]

Hypercanes would have wind speeds of over 800 km/h (500 mph), and would also have a central pressure of less than 70 kilopascals (21 inHg) (700 millibars), giving them an enormous lifespan.[4] For comparison, the largest and most intense storm on record was 1979's Typhoon Tip, with a wind speed of 305 kilometres per hour (190 mph) and central pressure of 87 kilopascals (26 inHg) (870 millibars). Such a storm would be eight times more powerful than the strongest storms yet recorded.[7]
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:17 am

8.4 earthquake just hit mexico, tsunami warning issued. Ugh. Still reading about how many died in a hurricane flood that hit Nepal/Pakistan/India that was less than Harvey. and Irma still a Cat 5 heading straight for Florida:( Feeling like a Roland Emmerich movie

just now http://www.latimes.com/world/la-me-eart ... story.html
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby The Consul » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:00 pm

The light coming through the window is alternately yellow and orange.

740,000 acres in Montana alone, could top a million. Good thing DT ignores, or it would be "Worst fires ever! Huge flames, fires jumping rivers!."
Dozens of fires. Oregon exploding along the mighty Columbia.
Here the sky is thick, the sun is red, and instead of being told to flee our homes, we are being urged to stay indoors.
You can literally see the clouds of smoke moving through the trees. Spend more than an hour outside, you cough, your chest gets tight and your eyes turn red.
Stay in and watch the hurricanes and analysis of the Wreckage. Ruin. Mold.

Doubtless we will still need to cut taxes, raise military spending, without making any adjustments for what these natural disasters are going to cost (hint it's in excess of 6-7 years of pentagon funding).

And the EPA chief says oh no no no don't mention global warming because it will disrespect Floridians. Don't want to scare them!

But for years people held secret hopes. Golly, maybe it's not true. Maybe it wont happen that fast or that bad. And The Warbucks made hay out of the faithful minds who cannot accept the basic truth that, dude, be real, you die.

And still, there are those who will continue to deny. But we no longer have to wonder when it will start and what it will look like.
It's here. It's kicked the front door in. The roof is about to come off, the water is up to our knees and the air is so thick with smoke we can barely see or breath.
Go ahead, say it ain't real. Go ahead, find some noble dickhead to blame, or believe.
It's here. It's growing. And it doesn't give a rat's ass whether we accept it or not.
And if you think the really, really, really, smart people are going to save us, guess what?

They have other plans.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby smoking since 1879 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:25 am

Hope you are safe Consul.

Cold region tipping point now inevitable
September 11, 2017

The decline of cold regions called periglacial zones is now inevitable due to climate change, researchers say.

Periglacial zones, where there is often a layer of frozen ground known as permafrost, make up about a quarter of the Earth's land surface and are mostly found in the far north and south, and at high altitudes.

Scientists from the universities of Exeter and Helsinki and the Finnish Meteorological Institute examined natural processes caused by frost and snow which take place in these zones.

Their findings suggest that – even with optimistic estimates of future carbon emissions – areas covered by periglacial zones will reduce dramatically by 2050, and they will "almost disappear" by 2100.

This would have a major impact on landscapes and biodiversity, and could trigger climate "feedbacks" – processes that can amplify or diminish the effects of climate change.

"The results suggest that profound changes can be expected in current periglacial zones regardless of climate change mitigation policies," said Dr Juha Aalto, of the University of Helsinki and the Finnish Meteorological Institute.
"Unfortunately, it seems that many of the frost-driven processes we studied are already at the margin of the climate in which they can exist."

The scientists studied four processes which take place in periglacial zones, including snow accumulation sites and "frost churning" – which refers to mixing of materials caused by freezing and thawing.

"Our results forecast a future tipping point in the operation of these processes, and predict fundamental changes in ground conditions and related atmospheric feedbacks," Dr Aalto added.

Dr Stephan Harrison, of the University of Exeter's Penryn Campus in Cornwall, said: "The project used very high-resolution climate and land surface models to demonstrate that geological processes and ecosystems in high latitudes (the far north and south) will be fundamentally altered by climate change during this century."

Even based on the optimistic RCP2.6 estimate for future carbon emissions, the researchers predict a 72% reduction in the current periglacial zone in the area of northern Europe they studied.

By 2100, periglacial zones in will only exist in high mountain regions, they say.

Professor Miska Luoto, of the University of Helsinki, said: "The anticipated changes in land surface processes can feedback to the regional climate system via alterations in carbon cycle and ground surface reflectance (light reflected by snow and ice) caused by the increase of shrub vegetation to alpine tundra.

"Our results indicate significant changes in Northern European plant life. Many rare species can only be sustained in areas of intense frost activity or late-lying snow packs, so the disappearance of such unique environments will reduce biodiversity."
The paper, published in the journal Nature Communications, is entitled: "Statistical modelling predicts almost complete loss of major periglacial processes in Northern Europe by 2100."


Explore further: Monitoring changes in wetland extent can help predict the rate of climate change
More information: Juha Aalto et al. Statistical modelling predicts almost complete loss of major periglacial processes in Northern Europe by 2100, Nature Communications (2017). DOI: 10.1038/s41467-017-00669-3
Journal reference: Nature Communications
Provided by: University of Exeter


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-09-cold-regi ... e.html#jCp


:tear

[RANT]

Why do these editors mash this stuff up so much?

from above :
Their findings suggest that – even with optimistic estimates of future carbon emissions – areas covered by periglacial zones will reduce dramatically by 2050, and they will "almost disappear" by 2100.


from the actual Nature article here : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00669-3
Even with the most optimistic CO2 emissions scenario (Representative Concentration Pathway (RCP) 2.6) we predict a 72% reduction in the current periglacial climate realm by 2050 in our climatically sensitive northern Europe study area.


72%, in nigh on thirty years ... :zomg

methane anyone ?

[/RANT]
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:11 pm

Good news...

We were wrong — worst effects of climate change can be avoided, say experts

Scientists admit that world is warming more slowly than predicted

September 19 2017, 12:01am, The Times .. Ben Webster, Environment Editor

The worst impacts of climate change can still be avoided, senior scientists have said after revising their previous predictions.

The world has warmed more slowly than had been forecast by computer models, which were “on the hot side” and overstated the impact of emissions, a new study has found. Its projections suggest that the world has a better chance than previously claimed of meeting the goal set by the Paris agreement on climate change to limit warming to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels.

The study, published in the journal Nature Geoscience, makes clear that rapid reductions in emissions will still be required but suggests that the world has more time to make the changes.

Michael Grubb, professor of international energy and climate change at University College London and one of the study’s authors, admitted that his past prediction had been wrong.

He stated during the climate summit in Paris in December 2015: “All the evidence from the past 15 years leads me to conclude that actually delivering 1.5C is simply incompatible with democracy.”

Professor Grubb told The Times yesterday: “When the facts change, I change my mind, as [John Maynard] Keynes said. It’s still likely to be very difficult to achieve these kind of changes quickly enough but we are in a better place than I thought.”

The latest study found that a group of computer models used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had predicted a more rapid temperature increase than had taken place. Global average temperature has risen by about 0.9C since pre-industrial times but there was a slowdown in the rate of warming for 15 years before 2014.

Myles Allen, professor of geosystem science at the University of Oxford and another author, said: “We haven’t seen that rapid acceleration in warming after 2000 that we see in the models. We haven’t seen that in the observations.”

He added that the group of about a dozen computer models, produced by government institutes and universities around the world, had been assembled a decade ago “so it’s not that surprising that it’s starting to divert a little bit from observations”. Too many of the models used “were on the hot side”, meaning they forecast too much warming.

According to the models, keeping the average temperature increase below 1.5C would mean that the world could emit only about 70 billion tonnes of carbon after 2015. At the present rate of emissions, this “carbon budget” would be used up in three to five years. Under the new assessment, the world can emit another 240 billion tonnes and still have a reasonable chance of keeping the temperature increase below 1.5C.

“That’s about 20 years of emissions before temperatures are likely to cross 1.5C,” Professor Allen said. “It’s the difference between being not doable and being just doable.”

Professor Grubb said that the fresh assessment was good news for island states in the Pacific, such as the Marshall Islands and Tuvalu, which could be inundated by rising seas if the average temperature rose by more than 1.5C.

...



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/we-were-wrong-worst-effects-of-climate-change-can-be-avoided-say-scientists-k9p5hg5l0
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:18 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Welcome back to the Global Warming Thread, BenD! Haven't seen you around in a while. I must say this is one of the first articles I've seen you post that isn't coming from the standpoint of denial. This is coming more from the standpoint of bargaining. Maybe we have time to stop this. Maybe humanity can get its shit together, repudiate the carbon emitters that pretend AGW is a Chinese hoax, and change the way money works so civilization can have a chance to survive. Maybe.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:19 pm

^^^
Thanks Paul, I am pleased you approve of my contribution to the thread, I hope it will always be so. :)
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:37 am

https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... s-a-fraud/

lobal Hot Air: Here's a United Nations climate report that environmentalists probably don't want anybody to read. It says that even if every country abides by the grand promises they made last year in Paris to reduce greenhouse gases, the planet would still be "doomed."

Autoplay: On | OffWhen President Obama hitched America to the Paris accords in 2016, he declared that it was "the moment that we finally decided to save our planet." And when Trump pulled out of the deal this year, he was berated by legions of environmentalists for killing it.

But it turns out that the Paris accord was little more than a sham that will do nothing to "save the planet."

According to the latest annual UN report on the "emissions gap," the Paris agreement will provide only a third of the cuts in greenhouse gas that environmentalists claim is needed to prevent catastrophic warming. If every country involved in those accords abides by their pledges between now and 2030 — which is a dubious proposition — temperatures will still rise by 3 degrees C by 2100. The goal of the Paris agreement was to keep the global temperature increase to under 2 degrees.

Eric Solheim, head of the U.N. Environment Program, which produces the annual report, said this week that "One year after the Paris Agreement entered into force, we still find ourselves in a situation where we are not doing nearly enough to save hundreds of millions of people from a miserable future. Governments, the private sector and civil society must bridge this catastrophic climate gap."

The report says unless global greenhouse gas emissions peak before 2020, the CO2 levels will be way above the goal set for 2030, which, it goes on, will make it "extremely unlikely that the goal of holding global warming to well below 2 degrees C can still be reached."

Not to worry. The UN claims that closing this gap will be easy enough, if nations set their collective minds to it.

But this is a fantasy. The list of what would need to be done by 2020 — a little over two years from now — includes: Boosting renewable energy's share to 30%. Pushing electric cars to 15% of new car sales, up from less than 1% today. Doubling mass transit use. Cutting air travel CO2 emissions by 20%. And coming up with $1 trillion for "climate action."

Oh, and coal-fired power plants would have to be phased out worldwide, starting now.

According to the report, "phasing out coal consumption … is an indispensable condition for achieving international climate change targets." That means putting a halt to any new coal plants while starting to phase out the ones currently in use.

Good luck with that. There are currently 273 gigawatts of coal capacity under construction around the world, and another 570 gigawatts in the pipeline, the UN says. That would represent a 42% increase in global energy production from coal. Does anyone really think developing countries who need coal as a cheap source of fuel to grow their economies will suddenly call it quits?

So, does this mean the planet is doomed? Hardly. As we have noted in this space many times, all those forecasts of global catastrophe are based on computer models that have been unreliable predictors of warming. And all of the horror stories assume the worst.

What the report does make clear, however, is that all the posturing by government leaders in Paris was just that. Posturing. None of these countries intended to take the drastic and economically catastrophic steps environmentalist claim are needed to prevent a climate change doomsday. As such, Trump was right to stop pretending.

Whether you believe in climate change or not, the Paris climate accord amounted to nothing, or pretty close to it. Even the UN admits that now.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:40 pm

^^^ So the good news from the article is......"So, does this mean the planet is doomed? Hardly."
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:48 pm

BenDhyan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:40 pm wrote:^^^ So the good news from the article is......"So, does this mean the planet is doomed? Hardly."


One problem is that the main event is the mass extinction event in progress.

The web of life is extremely complex.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:06 pm

^^^ What mass extinction event are you referring to?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:55 pm

Trump administration releases report finding ‘no convincing alternative explanation’ for climate change

By Chris Mooney, Juliet Eilperin and Brady Dennis November 3 at 4:00 PM

Image
Iceberg detached from Jakobshavn (Sermeq Kujalleq) glacier, Ilulissat village, Qaasuitsup, west Greenland, Denmark. (Photo by DeAgostini/Getty Images)

This story has been updated.

The Trump administration released a dire scientific report Friday calling human activity the dominant driver of global warming, a conclusion at odds with White House decisions to withdraw from a key international climate accord, champion fossil fuels and reverse Obama-era climate policies.

To the surprise of some scientists, the White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment, which is mandated by law. The report affirms that climate change is driven almost entirely by human action, warns of potential sea-level rise as high as eight feet by the year 2100, and details climate-related damage across the United States that is already unfolding as a result of 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit of global warming since 1900.

“It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century,” the document reports. “For the warming over the last century, there is no convincing alternative explanation supported by the extent of the observational evidence.”

The report’s release underscores the extent to which the machinery of the federal scientific establishment, operating in multiple agencies across the government, continues to grind on even as top administration officials have minimized or disparaged its findings. Federal scientists have continued to author papers and issue reports on climate change, for example, even as political appointees have altered the wording of news releases or blocked civil servants from speaking about their conclusions in public forums. The climate assessment process is dictated by a 1990 law that Democratic and Republican administrations have followed.

The White House on Friday sought to downplay the significance of the study and its findings.

“The climate has changed and is always changing. As the Climate Science Special Report states, the magnitude of future climate change depends significantly on ‘remaining uncertainty in the sensitivity of Earth’s climate to [greenhouse gas] emissions,'” White House spokesman Raj Shah said in a statement. “In the United States, energy related carbon dioxide emissions have been declining, are expected to remain flat through 2040, and will also continue to decline as a share of world emissions.”

Shah added that the Trump administration “supports rigorous scientific analysis and debate.” He said it will continue to “promote access to the affordable and reliable energy needed to grow economically” and to back advancements that improve infrastructure and ultimately reduce emissions.

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt, Energy Secretary Rick Perry and President Trump have all questioned the extent of humans’ contribution to climate change. One of the EPA’s Web pages posted scientific conclusions similar to those in the new report until earlier this year, when Pruitt’s deputies ordered it removed.

The report comes as Trump and members of his Cabinet are working to promote U.S. fossil-fuel production and repeal several federal rules aimed at curbing the nation’s carbon output, including ones limiting greenhouse-gas emissions from existing power plants, oil and gas operations on federal land and carbon emissions from cars and trucks. Trump has also announced he will exit the Paris climate agreement, under which the United States has pledged to cut its overall greenhouse-gas emissions between 26 percent and 28 percent compared with 2005 levels by 2025.

The report could have considerable legal and policy significance, providing new and stronger support for the EPA’s greenhouse-gas “endangerment finding” under the Clean Air Act, which lays the foundation for regulations on emissions.

“This is a federal government report whose contents completely undercut their policies, completely undercut the statements made by senior members of the administration,” said Phil Duffy, director of the Woods Hole Research Center.

The government is required to produce the national assessment every four years. This time, the report is split into two documents, one that lays out the fundamental science of climate change and the other that shows how the United States is being affected on a regional basis. Combined, the two documents total over 2,000 pages.

The first document, called the Climate Science Special Report, is now a finalized report, having been peer-reviewed by the National Academy of Sciences and vetted by experts across government agencies. It was formally unveiled Friday.

“I think this report is basically the most comprehensive climate science report in the world right now,” said Robert Kopp, a climate scientist at Rutgers who is an expert on sea-level rise and served as one of the report’s lead authors.

It affirms that the United States is already experiencing more extreme heat and rainfall events and more large wildfires in the West, that more than 25 coastal U.S. cities are already experiencing more flooding, and that seas could rise by between 1 and 4 feet by the year 2100, and perhaps even more than that if Antarctica proves to be unstable, as is feared. The report says that a rise of over eight feet is “physically possible” with high levels of greenhouse-gas emissions but that there’s no way right now to predict how likely it is to happen.

When it comes to rapidly escalating levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the report states, “there is no climate analog for this century at any time in at least the last 50 million years.”

Most striking, perhaps, the report warns of the unpredictable — changes that scientists cannot foresee that could involve tipping points or fast changes in the climate system. These could switch the climate into “new states that are very different from those experienced in the recent past.”

Given these strong statements — and how they contradict Trump administration statements and policies — some members of the scientific community had speculated that the administration might refuse to publish the report or might alter its conclusions. During the last Republican presidential administration, that of George W. Bush, the national assessment process was highly controversial, and a senior official at the White House Council on Environmental Quality edited aspects of some government science reports.

Yet multiple experts, as well as some administration officials and federal scientists, said that Trump political appointees did not change the special report’s scientific conclusions. While some edits have been made to its final version — for instance, omitting or softening some references to the Paris climate agreement — those were focused on policy.

“I’m quite confident to say there has been no political interference in the scientific messages from this report,” David Fahey, an atmospheric scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and a lead author of the study, told reporters on Friday. “Whatever fears we had weren’t realized. … This report says what the scientists want it to say.”

A senior administration official, who asked for anonymity because the process is still underway, said in an interview that top Trump officials decided to put out the assessment without changing the findings of its contributors even if some appointees may have different views.

Glynis Lough, who is deputy director of the food and environment program at the Union of Concerned Scientists and had served as chief of staff for the National Climate Assessment at the U.S. Global Change Research Program until mid-2016, said in an interview that the changes made by government officials to the latest report “are consistent with the types of changes that were made in the previous administration for the 2014 National Climate Assessment, to avoid policy prescriptiveness.”

Perhaps no agency under Trump has tried to downplay and undermine climate science more than the EPA. Most recently, political appointees at the EPA instructed two agency scientists and one contractor not to speak as planned at a scientific conference in Rhode Island. The conference marked the culmination of a three-year report on the status of Narragansett Bay, New England’s largest estuary, in which climate change featured prominently.

The EPA also has altered parts of its website containing detailed climate data and scientific information. As part of that overhaul, in April the agency took down pages that had existed for years and contained a wealth of information on the scientific causes of global warming, its consequences and ways for communities to mitigate or adapt. The agency said that it was simply making changes to better reflect the new administration’s priorities and that any pages taken down would be archived.

Pruitt has repeatedly advocated for the creation of a government-wide “red team/blue team” exercise, in which a group of outside critics would challenge the validity of mainstream scientific conclusions around climate change.

Other departments have also removed climate-change documents online: The Interior Department’s Bureau of Land Management, for example, no longer provides access to documents assessing the danger that future warming poses to deserts in the Southwest.

And when U.S. Geological Survey scientists working with international researchers published an article in the journal Nature evaluating how climate change and human population growth would affect where rain-fed agriculture could thrive, the USGS published a news release that omitted the words “climate change” altogether.

The Agriculture Department’s climate hubs, however, remain freely available online. And researchers at the U.S. Forest Service have continued to publish papers this year on how climate change is affecting wildfires, wetlands and aquatic habitat across the country.

While the Trump administration has not altered the new climate science report substantially, it is already coming under fire from some of the administration’s allies.

The day before it was published, Steven Koonin, a New York University physicist who has met with Pruitt and advocated for the “red team/blue team” exercise, preemptively criticized the document in the Wall Street Journal, calling it “deceptive.”

Koonin argued that the report “ominously notes that while global sea level rose an average 0.05 inch a year during most of the 20th century, it has risen at about twice that rate since 1993. But it fails to mention that the rate fluctuated by comparable amounts several times during the 20th century.”

But one of the report’s authors suggested Koonin is creating a straw man. “The report does not state that the rate since 1993 is the fastest than during any comparable period since 1900 (though in my informal assessment it likely is), which is the non-statement Steve seems to be objecting to,” Kopp countered by email.

Still, the line of criticism could be amplified by conservatives in the coming days.

The administration also released, in draft form, Volume 2 of the National Climate Assessment, which looks at regional impacts across the United States. This document is now available for public comment and will begin a peer review process, with final publication expected in late 2018.

Already, however, it is possible to discern some of what it will conclude. For instance, a peer-reviewed EPA technical document released to inform the assessment finds that the monetary costs of climate change in the United States could be dramatic.

That document, dubbed the Climate Change Impacts and Risk Analysis, finds that in a high-end warming scenario, high temperatures could lead to the loss per year of “almost 1.9 billion labor hours across the national workforce” by 2090. That would mean $160 billion annually in lost income to workers.

With high levels of warming, coastal property damage in 2090 could total $120 billion annually, and deaths from temperature extremes could reach 9,300 per year, or in monetized terms, $140 billion annually in damage. Additional tens of billions annually could occur in the form of damage to roads, rail lines and electrical infrastructure, the report finds.

This could all be lessened considerably, the report notes, if warming is held to lower levels.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:24 pm

^^^ Hmmm...“It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century,” the document reports.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:14 pm

BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:06 am wrote:^^^ What mass extinction event are you referring to?


The one we are causing right now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:42 pm

DrEvil » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:14 pm wrote:
BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:06 am wrote:^^^ What mass extinction event are you referring to?


The one we are causing right now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction


Thank you Dr Evil.

To quote, "The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background rates".
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