How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:55 pm

BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:21 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:10 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:34 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:52 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:15 pm wrote:^^^ You can't believe every scientific study has it right, there are only a relatively few scientists who believe one is happening.


I don't mean to be rude, but you are clueless.
Profound argument for sure, but if you think my statement was in error, please provide your evidence of wide spread support in the scientific community for the world being in a mass extinction event?


Here is a stepping off point that has already been posted by another in this thread. Note that 20 years ago 70% of biologists thought there was a human-caused extinction event in progress. I am certain a survey taken today would approach 100%, the exceptions being creationists or similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

C'mon wiki is not a scientific source, if there is a current mass extinction event taking place, there must be numerous peer reviewed scientific papers published in the world's top science journals. Go find them if you can.


That is why I referred to wiki as a "stepping off point". Did you read wiki? I could add to it if so inclined.

You do not seem to recognize that you haven't yet arrived at the starting line in this conversation.

You state that, "Only a relatively few scientists who believe one (extinction event) is happening". That is blatantly untrue and the scientists in denial are of dummied up fringe variety probably living on a flat Earth.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:08 pm

BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:50 pm wrote:
Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:18 am wrote::hrumph
You want peer reviewed scientific papers to verify ideas presented here at RI?
Thats okay for supportive evidence in many topics,
but it is no argument against the mass extinction claim.
And I come here for ideas ahead of the scientific curve.
And occassionally to argue against widely held scientific/cultural beliefs.
In addition peer reviewed doesn't carry the weight it used to.
It is one more discipline with fraudulent players.

BenDhyan wrote:there must be numerous peer reviewed scientific papers published in the world's top science journals. Go find them if you can.

I accept the idea as a hypothesis, but I get the impression there are some here who believe it to be an accepted fact of scientific reality, hence my request of them to look for scientific evidence so that they may find out for themselves main stream science does not take the hypothesis seriously.


Oh, okay. So what do you think of the peer reviewed article I posted?
And if you disagree can you post a peer reviewed article that disputes it?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:24 am wrote:http://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/E6089

Biological annihilation via the ongoing sixth mass extinction signaled by vertebrate population losses and declines

Significance

The strong focus on species extinctions, a critical aspect of the contemporary pulse of biological extinction, leads to a common misimpression that Earth’s biota is not immediately threatened, just slowly entering an episode of major biodiversity loss. This view overlooks the current trends of population declines and extinctions. Using a sample of 27,600 terrestrial vertebrate species, and a more detailed analysis of 177 mammal species, we show the extremely high degree of population decay in vertebrates, even in common “species of low concern.” Dwindling population sizes and range shrinkages amount to a massive anthropogenic erosion of biodiversity and of the ecosystem services essential to civilization. This “biological annihilation” underlines the seriousness for humanity of Earth’s ongoing sixth mass extinction event.

Nevertheless, despite the inclusion of " the ongoing sixth mass extinction " in the title, the paper is a hypothesis, not proof that there is a "sixth mass extinction" in progress.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:37 pm

PufPuf93 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:55 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:21 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:10 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:34 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:52 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:15 pm wrote:^^^ You can't believe every scientific study has it right, there are only a relatively few scientists who believe one is happening.


I don't mean to be rude, but you are clueless.
Profound argument for sure, but if you think my statement was in error, please provide your evidence of wide spread support in the scientific community for the world being in a mass extinction event?


Here is a stepping off point that has already been posted by another in this thread. Note that 20 years ago 70% of biologists thought there was a human-caused extinction event in progress. I am certain a survey taken today would approach 100%, the exceptions being creationists or similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

C'mon wiki is not a scientific source, if there is a current mass extinction event taking place, there must be numerous peer reviewed scientific papers published in the world's top science journals. Go find them if you can.


That is why I referred to wiki as a "stepping off point". Did you read wiki? I could add to it if so inclined.

You do not seem to recognize that you haven't yet arrived at the starting line in this conversation.

You state that, "Only a relatively few scientists who believe one (extinction event) is happening". That is blatantly untrue and the scientists in denial are of dummied up fringe variety probably living on a flat Earth.

Show us the main stream scientists who believe there is a sixth mass extinction event in progress. Don't you think the governments of the world and the UN would be on the case if it were true?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:48 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:08 am wrote:
BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:50 pm wrote:
Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:18 am wrote::hrumph
You want peer reviewed scientific papers to verify ideas presented here at RI?
Thats okay for supportive evidence in many topics,
but it is no argument against the mass extinction claim.
And I come here for ideas ahead of the scientific curve.
And occassionally to argue against widely held scientific/cultural beliefs.
In addition peer reviewed doesn't carry the weight it used to.
It is one more discipline with fraudulent players.

BenDhyan wrote:there must be numerous peer reviewed scientific papers published in the world's top science journals. Go find them if you can.

I accept the idea as a hypothesis, but I get the impression there are some here who believe it to be an accepted fact of scientific reality, hence my request of them to look for scientific evidence so that they may find out for themselves main stream science does not take the hypothesis seriously.


Oh, okay. So what do you think of the peer reviewed article I posted?
And if you disagree can you post a peer reviewed article that disputes it?

The fact that main stream science generally and governments of the planet have ignored it is evidence enough that it is a hypothesis which at present lacks the credibility to warrant taking it seriously as a "sixth mass extinction event" in progress.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:04 pm

Okay then, we agree, peer review doesn't matter in this case.
And you misunderstand science.
Science doesn't offer proof, it offers hypotheses that may result in conclusive theories.
Mathematics offer proofs.

BenDhyan wrote:Nevertheless, despite the inclusion of " the ongoing sixth mass extinction " in the title, the paper is a hypothesis, not proof that there is a "sixth mass extinction" in progress.

And the article does offer evidence that supports its hypothesis, you appear to be taking it too lightly.
* Actually you are waving it off and not offering any rebuttal, so you have no real argument here.
:confused about your sincerity.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:12 pm

BenDhyan wrote:The fact that main stream science generally and governments of the planet have ignored it is evidence enough that it is a hypothesis which at present lacks the credibility to warrant taking it seriously as a "sixth mass extinction event" in progress.


You cant have it both ways.
First you wanted peer reviewed science to accept the idea,
You got it and waved it off.
Now you want main stream science and government involvement to be offered as proof.
I wonder what will happen when you get it.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:35 pm

BenDhyan wrote:The fact that main stream science generally and governments of the planet have ignored it


And this is as mainstream as it gets. and remember, mainstream media has been busy.

Earth's sixth mass extinction event under way, scientists warn

"Prof Gerardo Ceballos, at the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, who led the work, said: “The situation has become so bad it would not be ethical not to use strong language.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-sixth-mass-extinction-event-already-underway-scientists-warn
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:45 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:04 am wrote:Okay then, we agree, peer review doesn't matter in this case.
And you misunderstand science.
Science doesn't offer proof, it offers hypotheses that may result in conclusive theories.
Mathematics offer proofs.

BenDhyan wrote:Nevertheless, despite the inclusion of " the ongoing sixth mass extinction " in the title, the paper is a hypothesis, not proof that there is a "sixth mass extinction" in progress.

And the article does offer evidence that supports its hypothesis, you appear to be taking it too lightly.
* Actually you are waving it off and not offering any rebuttal, so you have no real argument here.
:confused about your sincerity.

There are science papers published that are proposed proofs of some scientific theory or other, and there are science papers that are hypotheses. Sixth mass extinction event papers are hypotheses. So of course the contents of such a paper supports the hypothesis.

So let's clear the confusion, a hypothesis is not proof of anything yet, if the hypothesis continues to gain additional support from other scientists, at some point, sufficient proof may emerge to make it a theory*. At this point, sixth mass extinction event talk is about a hypothesis.
* Even a theory will only endure as long as it not been falsified, and thus the theory to be an honest theory must be proposed in a way it is able to be falsified.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:53 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:12 am wrote:
BenDhyan wrote:The fact that main stream science generally and governments of the planet have ignored it is evidence enough that it is a hypothesis which at present lacks the credibility to warrant taking it seriously as a "sixth mass extinction event" in progress.


You cant have it both ways.
First you wanted peer reviewed science to accept the idea,
You got it and waved it off.
Now you want main stream science and government involvement to be offered as proof.
I wonder what will happen when you get it.

You have not offered proof, I note you provided a peer reviewed paper of a hypothesis, but that is not proof. There are tens of thousands of scientific papers that get published that never get to be accepted as a valid theory, If it were an accepted theory, the scientific community would be on the case and so would governments and main stream media.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:05 pm

BenDhyan wrote:You have not offered proof, I note you provided a peer reviewed paper of a hypothesis, but that is not proof


There are no scientific proofs Ben.
That's not how science works.
Any scientific paper that offered "proof" of anything would be highly questionable.
Can you provide evidence of what you are talking about ? I am :confused


And I will bet there are plenty more papers coming down the pipeline on this topic, despite the potential for governmental suppression.
Last edited by Burnt Hill on Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby SonicG » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:06 pm

brainpanhandler » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:47 pm wrote:
BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:36 am wrote:^^^ You can judge what you think is best for the planet, but at the end of the day it is nature who determines which species will adapt and which won't. Let's not forget, humans are an indivisible part of nature.


To everyone conversing with dear ol' BenD, keep the above in mind. You can pile up mountains of evidence for BenD, but he can always retreat into that final, impenetrable, fact and value free bubble.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go and discuss quantum physics with my dog.


Lesson learned...I am going out for sushi...There is tons and tons of sushi everywhere now...Can't really see us running out given how much there is about...And if it does, well, we can adapt, find other food sources just as yummy...

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:33 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:05 am wrote:
BenDhyan wrote:You have not offered proof, I note you provided a peer reviewed paper of a hypothesis, but that is not proof


There are no scientific proofs Ben.
That's not how science works.
Any scientific paper that offered "proof" of anything would be highly questionable.
Can you provide evidence of what you are talking about ? I am :confused


And I will bet there are plenty more papers coming down the pipeline on this topic, despite the potential for governmental suppression.

Ok, governments could be suppressing the news of the sixth mass extinction event underway, I will await with interest for further developments.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:48 pm

BenDhyan wrote:Ok, governments could be suppressing the news of the sixth mass extinction event underway, I will await with interest for further developments.


Considering how involved climate change is with mass extinction scenarios you don't have to wait, it already exists.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby BenDhyan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:00 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:48 am wrote:
BenDhyan wrote:Ok, governments could be suppressing the news of the sixth mass extinction event underway, I will await with interest for further developments.


Considering how involved climate change is with mass extinction scenarios you don't have to wait, it already exists.

Oh, we know that climate change creates the need for adaptation, and that some species perish, but what sort of climate change is it that you think is occuring which is such that no species can adapt?
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