How Bad Is Global Warming?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:08 pm

I just wrote a blog entry covering the original and the second black hole in Siberia yesterday. Now I find out today there's been a third one.

Are Siberia’s methane blow-holes the first warning sign of unstoppable climate change?

17 hours ago July 30, 2014 11:55AM

Image
Mysterious Russian crater discovered

WHAT do three enormous craters in the Siberian wastelands have to do with a terrified American climate scientist? Methane. And that’s something to scare us all.

The end of the world could be starting right now — in a frozen Siberian wasteland known as Yamal. It translates as “The End of the Land”.

The first mysterious crater was spotted by oil workers earlier this month. It was an 80m wide cavern that reached deep into the earth.

Since then, the Siberian Times reports goatherds have found a further two enormous vents in the ground.

RELATED: Are we on the brink of a 6th mass extinction?

Russian researchers have returned from their investigation of the first find and taken water and soil samples to help resolve how the hole was formed.

Some say aliens. Some say they’re “hellmouths” — gateways to the undead.

But scientists already have a pretty good idea.

Explosive vents of vast quantities of methane gas.

Now a new, ominous, name could be attached to them: Dragon’s mouths.

Here’s where a blog posted by American professor in glaciology Dr Jason Box at the weekend comes in: “The dragon breath hypothesis has me losing sleep.”

Jason Box @climate_ice
Follow

If even a small fraction of Arctic sea floor carbon is released to the atmosphere, we're f'd.
8:43 AM - 29 Jul 2014 Copenhagen, Danmark



Image
Dragon’s mouth ... a crater recently discovered in the Yamal Peninsula, in Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, Russia. Russian scientists said that they believe the 60-metre wide crater could be the result of changing temperatures in the region. Source: AP

THE DRAGON’S BURP

Dr Box highlights signs of alarmingly huge spikes of methane being released into the atmosphere above Siberia.

It’s what that means which has him alarmed.

He’s not mincing his words.

He’s issued a no-holds barred call to action.

“This is an all hands on deck moment,” he writes. “We’re in the age of consequences.”

And he has the “WTF” results from atmospheric measurements to back him up.

Image
Siberian anomaly ... an incredibly high spike in methane reading recorded in 2013. Source: Supplied

Siberia has a single ground-based climate observing station, at a place called Tiksi.

But the numbers coming out of the remote research post are startling — and they’re backed up by similar stations in Alaska and Canada.

“I can tell you (these are) really high end,” Dr Box writes.

It’s the erratic, but enormous, spikes in methane readings coming from Tiksi — which Dr Box ominously calls “dragon breaths” — that may be tied to the enormous blow holes now appearing in Siberia’s desolate landscape.

He’d much rather the “dragon” remains dormant.

Image
Rising trend ... the “dragon’s breath” methane spikes have been recorded eight times in the past 22 years. Source: Supplied

EMPTYING AN ANCIENT CARBON DUMP

Siberia’s Yamal region contains some of Russia’s largest gas reserves. It’s little coincidence that the first vent hole appeared about 40km from the nation’s largest gas field — Bovanenkovo.

Since then another crater has been identified nearby. This one is smaller: Some 15m in diameter. Locals first found it in September last year, but it has only now come to the attention of authorities. A third — this time only 4m wide — was found several hundred kilometres away on the Taymyr Peninsula.

Russian scientists examining the first blowhole found it to be 60-80m wide and some 70m deep. It runs into the permafrost of ice and mud. There is an icy lake at its bottom.

Image
Earth-shattering ... Andrei Plekhanov, a senior researcher at the Scientific Research Center of the Arctic, stands at a crater, discovered recently in the Yamal Peninsula, in Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, Russia. Plekhanov said 80 per cent of the crater appeared to be made up of ice and that there were no traces of an explosion, eliminating the possibility that a meteorite had struck the region. Source: AP

“We can be certain in saying that the crater appeared relatively recently, perhaps a year or two ago; so it is a recent formation, we are not talking about dozen years ago,” said Andrey Plekhanov, Senior Researcher at the Russian Scientific Centre of Arctic Research.

Could it be linked to climate change?

SIBERIAN MYSTERY: What formed this massive hole in the ground?

“Well, we have to continue our research to answer this question,” he said. “Two previous summers — years 2012 and 2013 were relatively hot for Yamal, perhaps this has somehow influenced the formation of the crater.”

Image
Numbers of the beast ... This picture, provided to The Siberian Times by local residents, shows another recently found funnel in the Siberian tundra. Source: Supplied

Mikhail Lapsui, a deputy of Siberia’s regional parliament, inspected the second blowhole site.

“I flew by helicopter to inspect this funnel on Saturday, 19 July. Its diameter is about 15 metres. There is also ground outside, as if it was thrown as a result of an underground explosion.”

Methane.

It’s the lasting remains of an event which happened some 50 million years ago. An outbreak of a tiny green weed transformed the Earth from a virtually lifeless greenhouse by sucking the carbon out of the air and pumping oxygen back into it.

Image
From zero to hero? ... The Azolla water fern reversed the effects of climate change 50 million years ago. Now all its hard work threatens to be undone with the melting of Siberian permafrost. Source: AP

It was a process which took millions of years to create the world as we know it.

But the methane left trapped under the Arctic permafrost is a ticking time bomb — set to send the world into a mass extinction and set the climate clock back by millennia.

“We have been too long on a trajectory pointed at an unmanageable climate calamity; runaway climate heating,” Dr Box writes.

HUMBLE POWERHOUSE: Can this weed save the world — again?

“If we don’t get atmospheric carbon down and cool the Arctic, the climate physics and recent observations tell me we will probably trigger the release of these vast carbon stores, dooming our kids’ to a hothouse Earth. That’s a tough statement to read when your worry budget is already full as most of ours is.”

Image
Altered landscape ... Three deep vent holes have now been found blasted into the desolate permafrost of Siberia. Source: AP

GROWING ALARM

Dr Box says the issue of Arctic permafrost feedback on our warming climate was raised at the world’s largest meeting of scientists, the AGU, late last year. The take-home message was “we just can’t say much yet,” he said.

“That was then …”

He says he’s since been following blogs by other leading climate scientists and putting it all together.

“Their messaging is alarming, connecting dots between methane maps they generate using IASI data and a number of rapidly changing Arctic climate elements: declining sea ice area, duration, volume; increasing air and sea surface temperature; wildfires.”

Jason Box @climate_ice
Follow

Siberia breaks records for Arctic heat in a new sign of changing weather patterns http://siberiantimes.com/ecology/casest ... -patterns/
5:55 AM - 28 Jul 2014



One account is eerily similar to that of Siberia’s “dragon mouths”.

Bubbles of methane have been observed rising to the Arctic Ocean’s surface since as early as 2011.

“That’s damn scary,” Dr Box writes.

He fears the genie may be escaping from the bottle.

“Atmospheric methane release is a much bigger problem than atmospheric carbon dioxide release, since methane is ~20 times more powerful greenhouse gas,” he writes.

It’s a sign of a worst-case scenario cascading environmental collapse.

The loss of the reflective bright white Arctic ice itself contributes to warming as the ocean left behind absorbs more heat.

Image
Scientists baffled by giant crater

This warm water further destabilises the ice sheet and allows currents to form which “unlock” the methane trapped in the cold, shallow seas.

This methane erupts into the air — rapidly surpassing the effects of our own pollutants. At this point, there is nothing left humanity can do.

“What’s the take home message, if you ask me?” Dr Box writes.

EARTH 2.0: Can we find it fast enough?

“Because elevated atmospheric carbon from fossil fuel burning is the trigger mechanism poking the climate dragon. The trajectory we’re on is to awaken a runaway climate heating that will ravage global agricultural systems leading to mass famine, conflict. Sea level rise will be a small problem by comparison. We simply MUST lower atmospheric carbon emissions.

“There are still questions, of course, but the precautionary principle makes clear we have to keep this dragon in the ground.”
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
User avatar
stillrobertpaulsen
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: California
Blog: View Blog (37)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:59 pm

More scientists are weighing in with their analysis that these three holes do indeed contain high concentrations of methane.

The Really Scary Thing About Those Jaw-Dropping Siberian Craters

by Ari Phillips Posted on August 1, 2014 at 10:39 am

Image
CREDIT: flickr/ Steve Jurvetson

Russian scientists have determined that a massive crater discovered in a remote part of Siberia was probably caused by thawing permafrost. The crater is in the Yamal Peninsula, which means “end of the world.” It caught hold of the media spotlight in mid-July when it was spotted by oil and gas workers flying over the area. At roughly 200 feet wide and seemingly bottomless, speculation abounded about the cause with the Siberian Times reporting that, “theories range from meteorites, stray missiles, a man-made prank, and aliens, to an explosive cocktail of methane or shale gas suddenly exploding.”

Since this first discovery, two other smaller craters have been spotted in the surrounding regions, fueling even more armchair conjecture. Russian scientists sent to the site are now providing first-hand data showing that unusually high concentrations of methane of up to 9.6 percent were present at the bottom of the first large crater shortly after it was discovered on July 16. Andrei Plekhanov, an archaeologist at the Scientific Centre of Arctic Studies in Salekhard, Russia, who led an expedition to the crater, told The Journal Nature that air normally contains just 0.000179 percent methane.

According to Plekhanov, the last two summers in the Yamal have been exceptionally warm at about nine degrees Fahrenheit above average. Rising temperatures could have allowed the permafrost to thaw and collapse, releasing the methane previously trapped by the subterranean ice. Methane is the primary component of natural gas. The original crater is about 20 miles from a large natural gas plant and the entire Yamal Peninsula is rich in natural gas that is being extensively tapped to help fuel Russia’s natural gas boom.

Hans-Wolfgang Hubberten, a geochemist at the Alfred Wegener Institute in Potsdam, Germany, told Nature that climate change and the slow, steady thaw of the region could be to blame.

“Gas pressure increased until it was high enough to push away the overlying layers in a powerful injection, forming the crater,” he said.

Image
This frame grab made Wednesday, July 16 shows the 200-foot wide crater discovered in the Yamal Peninsula.

CREDIT: Associated Press Television


While staring down into the abyss of these craters is a scary thought, the release of large quantities of greenhouse gases from melting permafrost is existentially daunting. A study from earlier this year found that melting permafrost soil, which typically remains frozen all year, is thawing and decomposing at an accelerating rate. This is releasing more methane into the atmosphere, causing the greenhouse effect to increase global temperatures and creating a positive feedback loop in which more permafrost melts.

“The world is getting warmer, and the additional release of gas would only add to our problems,” said Jeff Chanton, the John Widmer Winchester Professor of Oceanography at Florida State and researcher on the study. According to Chanton, if the permafrost completely melts, there would be five times the current amount of carbon equivalent in the atmosphere.

Kevin Schaefer, a permafrost scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center, told ThinkProgress that there are actually two sources of GHGs released by melting permafrost: methane hydrates that destabilize when permafrost temperatures rise, as has been the case in Siberia, and frozen organic matter.

“Note that the methane hydrate and the decaying organic matter emissions result from two completely different mechanisms,” said Schaefer. “Methane hydrate emissions come from deep permafrost due to purely physical processes. The decaying organic matter emissions come from near-surface permafrost due to purely biological processes.”

He said that as the permafrost thaws, the organic matter will also thaw and begin to decay, releasing CO2 and methane into the atmosphere. “Published estimates indicate 120 gigatons of carbon emissions from thawing permafrost by 2100, which would increase global temperatures by an additional 7.98 percent,” he said.

Schaefer said the phenomenon of the Siberian craters was a surprise to him because he thought the methane would leak out more slowly. Capturing these large bursts of methane before they enter the atmosphere could be possible, according to Schaefer, however extremely difficult.

“The key is drilling into the permafrost before the methane escapes,” he said. “However, creating the infrastructure just to get to these remote locations is daunting.”

He said that capturing the emissions from decaying organic matter would be impossible.

Ted Schuur, a professor of ecosystem ecology at the University of Florida and leader of the Permafrost Carbon Network, told ThinkProgress that the Siberian craters remind him of ‘hot spots’ of methane bubbling that occur both in lakes and undersea in the permafrost zone.

“This could be a terrestrial version that was previously capped by ground ice in permafrost,” he said. “If indeed they are the result of warming permafrost they could be a significant pathway of greenhouse gas release to the atmosphere. As with other processes in the permafrost zone, abrupt changes appear to be as or perhaps more important than slow gradual change.”

A survey of 41 permafrost scientists in 2011 estimated that if human fossil-fuel use remained on a high projection and the planet warmed significantly, gases from permafrost could eventually equal 35 percent of present day annual emissions. In the few years since then, emissions have continued to rise. If emissions are heavily curtailed, greenhouse gases from permafrost could make up as little as around the equivalent of 10 percent of today’s human-caused emissions. This is far lower, but still highly disconcerting.

“Even if it’s 5 or 10 percent of today’s emissions, it’s exceptionally worrying, and 30 percent is humongous,” Josep G. Canadell, a scientist in Australia who runs a global program to monitor greenhouse gases, told the New York Times at the time of the study. “It will be a chronic source of emissions that will last hundreds of years.”
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
User avatar
stillrobertpaulsen
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: California
Blog: View Blog (37)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:10 pm

Glad to know this is an ongoing normal process, and that there are no signs of climate change destabilization of the area...

Fresh Focus on Siberian Permafrost as Hole Count Rises

By ANDREW C. REVKIN

Image

A hole in the Siberian permafrost probably formed when gas pressure built in a mix of water, ice and soil beneath, scientists say.

I had a Skype chat Wednesday about Siberian permafrost in the context of climate change with Marina Leibman, a top Russian permafrost expert who had just returned from examining the unusual crater spotted on the Yamal Peninsula in Siberia late last week.

Leibman, the chief scientist at the Earth Cryosphere Institute of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences, has studied permafrost since 1973 and has a remarkable publication record.

She describes how the first hole (and presumably the new one) appear to have formed as methane is released from a warming mix of ice, water and soil, building up pressure that explosively pushed out the top of the hole, heaving chunks of earth many yards in some directions. She said there were no signs of combustion, that the hole had to be at least a year old because there was fresh greenery from this summer season with no overlying layer of mud or the like.

Leibman stressed that there were no indications that such events were more than the normal process of lake formation in the area and predicted that the hole she inspected would end up being a lake in coming years.

She also stressed that she sees no signs of current or imminent warming producing a great destabilization of permafrost in the Arctic: “You can’t say in 20 years it will be 2 degrees warmer so permafrost will be thawing. It will make it 2 degrees warmer, but not thawing – at least in the far north.

“In the south, where you have only patches of permafrost, the response may be a little bit more active,” she said. “But what we see now is permafrost with minus 1 degree temperature [Celsius] now — after a climate warming of 1 and a half degrees — permafrost temperature is minus 0.1 degree, but not above zero.”

I encourage you to listen to our conversation and learn more.


There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby fruhmenschen » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:47 am

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/weathe ... trynum=292


National 24-hour Precipitation Records

By: Christopher C. Burt , 8:10 PM GMT on August 01, 2014



National 24-hour Precipitation Records

Earlier this week, on July 28th, both Holland and Germany saw some incredible rainfalls that approached their respective all-time national records for greatest 24-hour precipitation totals. Here are some details on these events as well as a ‘potted’ list of some other national records of such.

Munster, Germany Deluge of July 28th

On the afternoon of July 28th heavy thunderstorms developed over portions of western Germany and remained stationary for several hours depositing prodigious amounts of rainfall in and around the city of Munster (among other sites). A rain gauge at Munster’s main sewage works measured 292.5 mm (11.52”) of rainfall in a 7-hour period between 17:00-00:00 UTC. Of this, an amazing 163.5 mm (6.44”) fell in a single hour ending at 20:00 UTC and 261.5 mm (10.30”) in just 3 hours (see table below).
fruhmenschen
 
Posts: 5736
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:18 pm

Here's a personal observation as I am in Denver for the first time in years and watching the local news and have been into weather all my life. When I left for Seattle in 1999 the max average temp for summer was around 86 I think and then it begins to fall. Definitely in the 80s and not the 90s. Now the average temp is 90 according to the news I have been watching. I find that amazing. So that is certain proof that at least Denver is warming up. Believe me, an average was never in the 90s. So yeah, shit is warming up. And this is proof.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby NeonLX » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:01 pm

Last two times I was in Colorado (2005 & 2009), everything looked so much browner and drier, and also felt hotter, than when I lived there back in the 1960s. It was downright bizarre not to see ANY snow on the Rockies.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
User avatar
NeonLX
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:11 am
Location: Enemy Occupied Territory
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:14 pm

82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:18 am wrote:Here's a personal observation as I am in Denver for the first time in years and watching the local news and have been into weather all my life. When I left for Seattle in 1999 the max average temp for summer was around 86 I think and then it begins to fall. Definitely in the 80s and not the 90s. Now the average temp is 90 according to the news I have been watching. I find that amazing. So that is certain proof that at least Denver is warming up. Believe me, an average was never in the 90s. So yeah, shit is warming up. And this is proof.

Just google it if you want to question these things 82_28....here for example are the high low temperature records for Denver in July....these are a more credible representation of the state of climate than a subjective fly by assessments based on memory....

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/bou/include/showProduct.php?product=juln.txt&parentdir=cli
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:48 pm

Ben D » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:14 pm wrote:
82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:18 am wrote:Here's a personal observation as I am in Denver for the first time in years and watching the local news and have been into weather all my life. When I left for Seattle in 1999 the max average temp for summer was around 86 I think and then it begins to fall. Definitely in the 80s and not the 90s. Now the average temp is 90 according to the news I have been watching. I find that amazing. So that is certain proof that at least Denver is warming up. Believe me, an average was never in the 90s. So yeah, shit is warming up. And this is proof.

Just google it if you want to question these things 82_28....here for example are the high low temperature records for Denver in July....these are a more credible representation of the state of climate than a subjective fly by assessments based on memory....

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/bou/include/showProduct.php?product=juln.txt&parentdir=cli


Oh, I don't know about that Ben D. I paid attention to the "average highs" all my life. The averages are in the 90s now. This did not exist when I was growing up here. Plus, what is this "google" you speak of?

It's totally not subjective. I prefaced the comment with "personal observation". It wasn't a "fly by".
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:42 pm

82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:48 am wrote:Oh, I don't know about that Ben D. I paid attention to the "average highs" all my life. The averages are in the 90s now. This did not exist when I was growing up here. Plus, what is this "google" you speak of?

It's totally not subjective. I prefaced the comment with "personal observation". It wasn't a "fly by".

Well it may be a personal observation...but it appears to be an erroneous one...the average temperature for July 2014 was 84 °F while the long term average for July is 88 °F.....

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDEN/2014/7/18/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

ps...'google' in the context I used it is a synonym for web search....tho you already know that!
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Elihu » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:05 pm

82_28 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:18 pm wrote:Here's a personal observation as I am in Denver for the first time in years and watching the local news and have been into weather all my life. When I left for Seattle in 1999 the max average temp for summer was around 86 I think and then it begins to fall. Definitely in the 80s and not the 90s. Now the average temp is 90 according to the news I have been watching. I find that amazing. So that is certain proof that at least Denver is warming up. Believe me, an average was never in the 90s. So yeah, shit is warming up. And this is proof.


sorry ocho duece. i came across this shortly before reading your post ;)

In April was the jackal born,
In June the rain-fed rivers swelled:
"Never in all my life," said he,
"Have I so great a flood beheld." --Kipling


the last time we had a July like this in Dallas was twenty years ago. cool and rainy. and this just two years on from 2011 which almost but did not surpass the record heat wave of 1980 which I also remember. proof is a fickle thing i guess. but what are we really buggin about? the weather? or the government not doing what it says it wants to do about it? just be patient my friend. the selective taxes, restrictions and surveillance are on their way...
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:05 am

Ben D » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:42 pm wrote:
82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:48 am wrote:Oh, I don't know about that Ben D. I paid attention to the "average highs" all my life. The averages are in the 90s now. This did not exist when I was growing up here. Plus, what is this "google" you speak of?

It's totally not subjective. I prefaced the comment with "personal observation". It wasn't a "fly by".

Well it may be a personal observation...but it appears to be an erroneous one...the average temperature for July 2014 was 84 °F while the long term average for July is 88 °F.....

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDEN/2014/7/18/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

ps...'google' in the context I used it is a synonym for web search....tho you already know that!


Look, I don't know how to tell you again. Denver's announced average highs have never been in the 90s. What part of that don't you get? I lived in this sprawling cesspool for 24 years. Now the very same weather people I still remember are saying "our high should be topping out at 90 right now, so a little cooler than normal for today". Fuck bro. I'm not pissed, just making a PERSONAL OBSERVATION. Denver's highs have never averaged out into the 90s according to the weather people ever.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:27 am

82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:05 pm wrote:
Ben D » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:42 pm wrote:
82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:48 am wrote:Oh, I don't know about that Ben D. I paid attention to the "average highs" all my life. The averages are in the 90s now. This did not exist when I was growing up here. Plus, what is this "google" you speak of?

It's totally not subjective. I prefaced the comment with "personal observation". It wasn't a "fly by".

Well it may be a personal observation...but it appears to be an erroneous one...the average temperature for July 2014 was 84 °F while the long term average for July is 88 °F.....

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDEN/2014/7/18/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

ps...'google' in the context I used it is a synonym for web search....tho you already know that!


Look, I don't know how to tell you again. Denver's announced average highs have never been in the 90s. What part of that don't you get? I lived in this sprawling cesspool for 24 years. Now the very same weather people I still remember are saying . Fuck bro. I'm not pissed, just making a PERSONAL OBSERVATION. Denver's highs have never averaged out into the 90s according to the weather people ever.

Now it works like this....the weather man who says "our high should be topping out at 90 right now, so a little cooler than normal for today" is talking about max temp for the day.....this is not the average max temperature for the day!

To see the max and average max temperature...click on the link I provided above and scroll down to the Weather History Calendar and you can see the actual high and long term average high for any day in July 2014. Notice for example on the 16th, the max was 75 °F while the long term average high for this day is 90 °F.....while a week later on the 23rd, the max was 93 °F while the long term average is 90 °F.

Now if you are still of the opinion that I am missing something....please check out a relevant day on the Weather History Calendar (perhaps a day when you were there} and point out to me what you mean.
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Jerky » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:26 am

82_28, I think Ben is being pretty darn nice to you considering the way you're reacting to his friendly (and accurate) correction of your erroneous memories.

Jerky
User avatar
Jerky
 
Posts: 2240
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Toronto, ON
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby 82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:46 am

I don't mind and am not being a dick here. I just noticed that on "news graphics" they display the high and low for the day along with the historical average or "norm". I wasn't hallucinating. It said on numerous channels that the average was now 90 ON THE GRAPHICS. Ben, your link was helpful and I thank you for it. But can't unsee what I saw. I never saw before an average high in the 90s. Again insofar as this dust up, I wonder where these weather people are now getting their metrics then. All three of the big channels here in Denver say average of 90. That was my point. I'd never seen a "90" as an average in my life. Thus, my "intuition" told me that something has warmed up and just thought I would bring it up. Again just a personal observation. That's it and that's all.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:19 pm

82_28 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:46 am wrote:I don't mind and am not being a dick here. I just noticed that on "news graphics" they display the high and low for the day along with the historical average or "norm". I wasn't hallucinating. It said on numerous channels that the average was now 90 ON THE GRAPHICS. Ben, your link was helpful and I thank you for it. But can't unsee what I saw. I never saw before an average high in the 90s. Again insofar as this dust up, I wonder where these weather people are now getting their metrics then. All three of the big channels here in Denver say average of 90. That was my point. I'd never seen a "90" as an average in my life. Thus, my "intuition" told me that something has warmed up and just thought I would bring it up. Again just a personal observation. That's it and that's all.


82_28, you just don't get it, do you? Global warming is a big flaming hoax. Stop believing your lying eyes - there's just no way you could have seen what you think you saw. Any news report that says the Denver average temperature got warmer must be your personal hallucination.

On a serious note, I do appreciate your efforts to keep this thread civil. The last thing I want is to see this thread locked because some posters, either through raging belligerence or passive-aggressive 'niceness', insist on baiting others because - they're right, by God, and you're wrong! I thank you for stepping in and trying to establish a moderate tone where people can feel free to express their observations.

On the subject of personal observations, I can say that I've definitely noticed a climate change in southern California from when I was a child. Not necessarily as far as warming goes, although that may be the case, but in humidity. The southern California summers of my childhood were a dry desert heat. Just within the past several years, I have noticed more humid days during the summer. It rained yesterday and the sticky muggy feeling evoked memories of a summer rain I experienced in Boston the year before. That sticky muggy humidity is there for more sunny summer days as well. I can't quantify it or scientifically verify an anthropogenic causality, but you can't tell me I'm not feeling the climate change.
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
User avatar
stillrobertpaulsen
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: California
Blog: View Blog (37)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests