Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

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Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby nashvillebrook » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:57 pm

hey -- just wanted to pass this on:

Looks like Whitley Strieber's Dreamland is doing a two-week special on child abuse in intelligence programs. The first podcast is up featuring John Rappoport and Eileen Welsome (you have to click on the "listen here" link to launch the custom player...the show isn't yet listed on the page menu, but the program is available). I haven't listened yet.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/dreamland/?id=479

Intelligence Community Child Abuse

We begin a two week exploration of whether or not children have ever been utilized by US intelligence agencies in abusive programs. Have children been the victims of brainwashing, drug and mind control experiments?

There is more evidence right now that children have been abused in secret experiments than there was that adults were fed plutonium prior to Eileen Welsome's publication of the Plutonium Experiments.

That book won her a Pulitzer Prize and led to a presidential apology to the victims of those experiments.

It has proved more difficult to find hard evidence of official child abuse, in part due to the ferocious defense the intelligence community has mounted, and in part due to the work of organizations that claim that childhood memories of abuse are invalid.

Listen carefully to this and next week's shocking programs. Somewhere, there must be an investigative reporter with the capability of doing for the victims of this abuse what Eileen Welsome did for the plutonium experiment victims.

John Rappoport's websites are NoMoreFakeNews.com, and InSolutions.info.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Simulist » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:55 pm

Although the abuse of children by officials connected to the U.S. intelligence community is a serious matter that is sorely in need of exposure (at long last!), I was sorely sorry to hear that Whitley Strieber is the man currently reaching forth to expose it — because Whitley Strieber has the "Midas touch," just in reverse.

However well-intentioned he might be (and I'm no longer convinced of those alleged "good intentions" at all, by the way), everything Whitley Strieber touches receives the "Mark of the Fleeced."

People who were abused by their government as children deserve better.

This is actually a fairly good interview, but having observed Whitley Strieber over many years now, I consider it more than possible that this is (at best) a "limited hangout" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout) — so it'll be interesting to listen to part two. (By the way, if Whitley Strieber is really trying to "expose" this, putting his own personal testimony about it behind the firewall of his website's pay-to-subscribe section is a piss-poor way to do it.)
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Project Willow » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:00 pm

It has proved more difficult to find hard evidence of official child abuse, in part due to the ferocious defense the intelligence community has mounted, and in part due to the work of organizations that claim that childhood memories of abuse are invalid.


These are two unrelated phenomena?

Thanks for the heads up Nashvillebrook. Welsome's work is a great primer for anyone interested in 20th century gov. sponsored human experimentation.

Can someone clue me in wrt UC. I've certainly read enough here about Strieber, but is UC considered somewhat legitimate, and in which circles or...? Why would Welsome do an interview there?
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:13 pm

Hey nashvillebrook


Thanks for the heads up
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Don’t forget that.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby nashvillebrook » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:04 pm

hey everyone -- it's a FWIW with regard to Whitley. I can barely stand to listen to him, and it has nothing to do with credibility. His delivery is so cringe-inducing (especially his self-promotion) that you essentially need a bottle of flexeril to make it thru a podcast.

I agree about the limited hangout -- especially regarding his Coming Global Superstorm, which I believe is responsible for setting back the cause of climate change by about 20 years. Not so much the book itself, as the promotional tour he did with Art Bell that tainted the subject with fringy-woo fabulosity. I love fringy-woo, don't get me wrong. We just don't need dead-serious issues mixed in with funtime alien UFO Illumisquati stuff.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby elfismiles » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:51 am

As with so many "hot potato" people I can understand folks concern about Strieber, especially given that his antics are legendary. On the other hand, he, like a lot of traumatised encontrants (wether SRA or UFO related) have experienced loads of derision and ridicule. That causes me to cut folks a lot of slack. Strieber gets accused of money making as much as other "conspiracy mongers."

I'd say he and his UC site are about as respected as most other "alternative news" sites that are based around a research personality - at least those that focus upon UFOs, alien abductions and the like.

His narrative is considered to have changed about as much as Vallee's take on the UFO phenomenon; which is to say, they've both been open minded about the multiple aspects of the phenomena they've experienced / researched. Both have pointed towards the psychotronic mind control elements, with Strieber even coming straight out and claiming to have been a childhood survivor of military mind control at probable locales such as San Antonio's military bases.

But yeah, the fact that Strieber's past antics, let alone his written statements (in Communion and Transformation) that he has lied about his "memories" of "experiences" (such as being in the line of fire at the University of Texas during the infamous UT Tower Shooting) does come along with him as very heavy baggage.

I have heard of some very strange incidents a mutual friend has had with Strieber and his wife. He has always been cordial in my few interactions with him.

This is not the first time he has reported on child abuse. He has, I believe, reported on the Sunshine projects efforts at uncovering the children used in MK-Ultra subprojects and has at least alluded to the Finders incident before on his show.

I still honor and respect his contributions to the UFO field.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby nashvillebrook » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:45 pm

Elfsmiles -- i had forgotten about Whitley's abuse narrative, and you're absolutely correct that he's been a stand-up guy regarding these issues. I had totally forgotten about his military connection, too. Good points.

Hope I didn't rag too hard on him -- it's his delivery that puts me off, and I'm sure that a lot of that has to do with his frank earnestness about stuff. I have a tendency to be overly earnest, and I'd prolly be no better a broadcaster then he, so I have no room to rag. Frankly, I'm tired of being so damn smug about shit.

The thing about his superstorm promotion stills bugs me tho. I wish that heavier hitters got the attention that he did on the same subject (gulfstream shutdown) -- but, that's likely a media bias more than anything. The Today Show will gladly put Whitley on in order to ridicule him, but won't give the time of day to a serious climatologist b/c they're just not entertaining enough. Or, the information is just too depressing to deal with in a serious manner over your morning coffee while getting the kids off to school. He's trying to promote this stuff, and I guess we should be glad someone...anyone...is doing that.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Simulist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:58 pm

I'm not sure which is the greater enemy of truth: outright hindering the search for it, or insidiously leading that search toward ones own ends.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby LilyPatToo » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:12 pm

One of his journal entries addresses Whitley Strieber's childhood military-linked abuses--The Boy in the Box. Also, Dream's End wrote a series of blog articles that dug into his past that I really wish were still available online. I think someone here linked to one of that series that was of more interest to supporters of UFOs/alien abduction than the others, but you really need to read all of them to get an overview of the man, his claims and evidence that supports or undermines his assertion that it's aliens messing with him. Alex Constantine wrote an article citing one of DE's blogs (Whitley Strieber and the Paradigm of Doom Part 4: Whitley Goes to Mars).

A poster at Strieber's Unknown Country message board posted a transcript of a YouTube video interview the author gave, but without a link to the video, unfortunately:
"I've seen too much from the Secret Government to jump to the conclusion that this is, any of this is being done by aliens. We have to be sure, first, that it's not being done by human beings. I include in that, by the way, the UFOs that are appearing in the skies, and being videoed, the whole phenomenon. The reason is, that if you read the documents that have been declassified under the FOIA, about the MKUltra Project that was conducted by the CIA in the 60s & 70s, what you read there is the activities of psychotics engaged in insane programs that used and abuse the minds of innocent people, that make the activities of the Nazi doctors at Auschwitz look tame. And this was done by Americans in the continental United States, under a cloak of secrecy. It is among the most evil things human beings have ever done to other human beings. It was done by the United States government's Central Intelligence Agency. That is a real, true fact. MKUltra was a real program that induced people to become psychotic using LSD. It's in black and white, it's in court records, it's real. People who did something like that are capable of anything. The fact that those people remain concealed, behind a barrier of secrecy, from public scrutiny, means that objects appearing in the human body, implants that seem to have something to do with mind control, we have to investigate FIRST, the secret government, SECOND, we look for aliens. We've got a monster on our hands, behind the cloak of secrecy. We've gotta get rid of it. Our country has cancer. Our country's freedom is dying of the cancer. The cancer is called CIA, NSA, NRO, DIA, those are the acronyms of the death of freedom."

Interview: "What was it that ...turned you around to looking at terrestrial origins of these encounters?"

Whitley: "Because I remember when this implant was put in my ear, and I saw the people who did it, and they were people, not aliens.:

Talking about some of his abduction and/or contact experiences, he says:

"And some of them, I would say that they have the quality of reality about them, I would be, I, I, I would be surprised if it wasn't alien contact. But, as I say, until I know for sure what the government's been doing, I can't say that for certain. I've gotta get that, sort of static cleared out of the system first, to be sure that it's not an illusion induced by some kind of psychotic government agents bent on creating a new religion, or something. Goodness knows what kind of lunatic nonsense they can come up with. But I will tell you this, if you want to find psychosis in our country, and people in need of therapy, go to the secret government, and you will find people who desperately need to be on the psychiatrist's couch. The problem is, instead of being on the psychiatrist's couch, they have absolute power, and the possession of unlimited sources of funds, and technology of almost unbelievable potency. We've put psychotics in control of the most powerful weapons in the world. And then said, 'Go do this on your own', and crazy stuff is starting to come out of there, and we better watch it, because we're in trouble."

later...Interviewer: "You say that this is occurring in the domain of the mind, this is a mental phenomenon, and that you make the connection into their (aliens) reality, a sort of hyperconsciousness..."

Whitley: "Yeah, but when I wrote that, I didn't know about the implants. This is a recent discovery, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm certain that mind control was involved, and I'll tell you why. In 1989, I had MRI scans done of 10 people who reported implants, including myself. The doctor and I read these reports, we looked at the MRI scans, and we concluded that there were no implants in these people. About 2 weeks ago, I realized, that, after Dr. Leir began taking implants out of people, that there was something wrong. So I opened up the archive and went back to the reports. And 2 of them have, plain as day, classic descriptions of implants in the heads of these people. Why didn't we know that? Why didn't we see it? I mean, anyone could see it. It doesn't even take a radiologist to see the things. They're described to a T, and you can see them in the MRI scans, clearly. Also, in 1989, a woman.....had an implant removed from her body after her death, from her ear, her left ear, the same place this one his (touches his left ear). That was not studied by a single soul until 1995. Why not? Why didn't they take it from her body, and take it directly to a lab and study it, but nobody did it in 1989. Now, I don't think there's any explanation for that except mind control. My mind was, in my opinion, affected in some way."

A bit later, Whitley says: "All bets are off now. this physical evidence means that we don't know what we are dealing with anymore. We have to start anew in that respect, and where we start is understanding the implants, and what their function is, and what they do. And it's not impossible, it's not technology that's so far beyond us that we can't possibly understand it. I already know a certain amount about the implants, cause there's already been some initial studies done. We are going to be able to understand what they do. We're going to be able to detect the signals that they generate, and that they pick up, if they do. There's no question about it, we will be able to do this. Within 5 years, we will know the answer to the implants. And once we understand what the implants do, we will be able to understand what the true meaning of the perceptions we've had are."

And...."I am not interested in drawing conclusions until I have facts. The fact I have now is there are implants in people's bodies. End of story. I have videos of UFOs. I have videos of other unknown phenomenon in the skies, that we've just never seen before, that seems related in some way.....We have the crop circles. The crop circles are real. The attempt on the part of the intelligence services to debunk the crop circles was lame and vile." (He then discusses the collusion of intelligence agencies and NPR to debunk crop circles.)

Then: "One quite prominent, in fact, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, told me 5 years ago, he said, 'Whitley, if one word of this book is true, science has taken a kick in the shins, because we've been lied to." He said to me 3 days ago, "Science took a body blow. We've been lied to, more than lied to.' He said, 'I'm beginning to suspect I'm looking at one of the most evil things that has ever been done on this planet, and that is the concealment of the greatest secret that mankind has ever known.' I said, 'You're jumping to the conclusion that it's aliens.' And he said, 'Of course it's aliens.' I said, 'Wait a minute. Let's be clear about this. Don't do that. It's implants, right now. It's crop circles. It's video. We don't know if it's aliens yet. Let's look through the implants, the videos and the crop circles, and see what's on the other side of that. Then we can decide.'"

Then, "The secret government is like any kind of wild animal, it will do anything to survive."

And....:"This is not a free country. This is a police state, and I have an implant in my ear to prove it."

Then, "I am human. I can tell you a lot about the human being, and my being. But I'm not going to try to tell you about something else like that, especially with as little information as I actually have. What domain am I in? Am in a a domain generated by some computer in Washington, or am I in a domain that involves contact with real aliens? I don't know the answer to those questions yet, and until I do know, how can I possibly discuss that? I can't."

"I'm talking about the limitations, not of my consciousness, but of my knowledge."

He then brings up that the implant in his ear has activated, and his ear gets red and hot and starts ringing.

He says, "It's interesting, we were talking about the government, is when the implant turned on. Not when we were talking about the Visitors."

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this transcript, but I did notice over the years I spent at UC (before being banned for talking there about the mind control programs) that he occasionally posted seemingly contradictory views on this subject. This could be due to a number of reasons, but my personal opinion is that it might be due to dissociative alter-switching resulting from some form of severe traumatic abuse in early childhood (please note: just my opinion and basically a sympathetic reading of the narrative inconsistencies I noticed). I'm glad to see him returning to the subject of systematized child abuse, but worried too that the treatment it's given will prejudice many people against giving the subject the serious consideration it deserves. So the "limited hangout" theory may be true, as might the possible "poisoning the message via the selected messenger" but there's really no way of telling whether that's what's happening or not.

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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Simulist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:36 pm

"But why do I need these absurd stories? They are not lies: when I tell them, I myself believe them. I don't lie. Perhaps I tell them to myself when I tell them to others, so that I can hide from myself whatever has made me a refugee in my own life."

— Whitley Strieber, from Communion: A True Story
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Hammer of Los » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:44 pm

Streiber has clearly been victimised.

It's interesting how his narrative has changed over the years, certainly if that transcript is genuine. I wish I had time to follow it more really, I read Communion so long ago, and it did affect me, I can tell you that.

I agree fully with Lilypat's take on this. Even if he is genuine, and has begun to understand that the likeliest explanation for his "alien" experiences is secret mil/intel mind control programs, there remains the probability that he is still being manipulated. In fact, in that interview he basically concedes that himself. At times these days he seems rather confused and contradictory as Lilypat noted, so perhaps he may not be the best advocate for this cause.

Can anyone comment further on the likely authenticity of that interview?
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Free » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:00 pm

I only read "The boy in the box" excerpt, will listen to the show in the next few days. He's obviously a survivor and therefore I feel compassion for him but to me it's obvious that until Whitney does some deep inner work with competent support people, his expose`s on mind control of children and UFO's will do much more harm than good.

What Whitney Streiber is doing illustrates why I feel strongly that those of us who survived these programs need to dedicate ourselves to our own healing work and reach a certain level of recovery, integrity and understanding of our life stories before going public or throwing ourselves into advocacy and activism around mind control and extreme abuse issues.

(By going public I mean high profile stuff, not discussing things on venues such as this).
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:17 pm

Image
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby operator kos » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:34 pm

On a similar note, I finally got around to starting "The Franklin Scandal" and it starts with a very clear and detailed explanation and history of "The Finders" which I had been slightly fuzzy on from just reading on the Internet. I very highly recommend Nick Bryant's book, even if you're basically familiar with the subject matter.
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Re: Intelligence Community Child Abuse on Dreamland

Postby DeltaDawn » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:31 am

I think that most of these stories, to include Strieber's, might ought to be listened to, even when we know they come from a 'disassociated' state. Those who know, know that this has to be dealt with, to understand the 'whole' of what victims are trying to say.

Again, I must ask, if so many people, from so many areas of the world, say the same thing, whether in 'their own minds' or 'alters'...shouldn't we pay attention, and ask ourselves....do they have something important to tell us? Most of these 'victims' are not just wild 'alter's' fu..ing with us, but folks who are asking, why is this happening and what do you know, that can help me? To be fair, I think we must listen, learn, empathize, share in the frustration and as a humane society understand that there is something very important being said.

You know my sentiments, it's only my opinion and just like an a..ho.., everyone has one :)
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