rigorousintuition.ca

Just wondering what you think was the main cause of "9/11 Truth" being an abysmal fart in the room laughing stock failure? By now, most the Democrats and Liberals who entertained such notions have fully gone back to the "blowback/intelligence failures/lessons to be learned" mindset. Same with most the celebrities who once were outspoken on the issue.

...and in the end, we have hundreds of thousands of people dead and or maimed from all the wars justified by this event. The "war on terror"(From Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen to Somalia, the Philippines, etc)

How did we go from the 2001-2003 era of Jersey Girls, excellent Mike Rupert presentations, the Sterling committee, GNN, Paul Thompson, Michel Chossudovsky, Nafeez Ahmed, mainstream media even asking questions, push for an independent inquiry, & Colleen Rowley as Time's Person of the Year to the embarassing clown train that became "9/11 Truth"?

Was it...

1. Alex Jones and the right wing patriot crowd bullhorning people into oblivion, insisting anyone who isnt with them are complicit in the attacks and framing the argument in a strict authoratative "youre either with us or against us" manner?

2. The fictional student film "Loose Change" becoming the face of "the truth movement"?
"Oh, you don't buy the official story? Oh...what you believe that Loose Change stuff?"

3. The government and media intentionally slipping "blame the Jew" theories days after 9/11 to frame ANY questioning of 9/11 as "Anti Semitic"(ie: "4000 didnt show up to work")
Maybe that was the purpose of the white van/george washington bridge/dancing Israelis...push those stories to conflate 9/11 skepticism with Jew hating.

4. The "intellectual" Liberals, Left Blogosphere, etc framing the debate and abusively being against anything outside of the "blowback/incompetence" meme?(DailyKos, Crooks and Liars, Counterpunch, MotherJones, Huffpo, etc Im looking right at you) DailyKos even made it clear that "any theories which take sole blame of 9/11 away from al Qaeda will not be tolerated". Ouch! I still love Noam Chomsky though

5. Was it the Blame-The-Zionist-Jew crowd that did in the "Truth" movement? The Wingtv, American Free Press, Eric Hufsmind, Christopher Bolyn, Stormfront, David Duke crowd?

6. The public simply not wanting their reality and accepted reality view challenged, or anyone to take away their morning cup of cognitive dissonance?

7. All of the above?

For the record I never believed 9/11 was an "Inside Job", as in the "neocons, Cheney and Bush" plotted 9/11 or purposefully allowed 9/11 to happen. Nor do I believe "Ramzi Yousef on his laptop, KSM, or bin Laden" were the real brains or mastermind of 9/11, as much as I believe there were clear willing tools. I definitely do not believe "9/11 was hatched by the American government"...see, 9/11 when you look at the facts is a lot more sneaky and clever.

Oh, Im sure Cheney really does believe he is in a dire war with "al Qaeda".
And Im sure most of al Qaeda think its a dire life and death war with the US.
It's manipulation on all fronts, and this is why 9/11 will NEVER be "solved" or "brought to justice". All the players did exactly what they needed to do, without necessarily realizing they were part of it. The US, al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel, etc...all got played. But by whom?

And all the endless posting of missile and bomb theories or namecalling won't change anyone's opinion. The magic of 9/11 is that it is infallible, it is holy...and anyone who dares question it is worse than crazy in people's views.

If you want the most shocking, frightening, revelatory "smoking gun" of 9/11...look no further
than the FBI detailing of the hijacker's every move:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?sto ... 6195228169

It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is banking/defence interests.

i also suspect jeff wells of involvement, after all his suspiciously clever 9/11 coincidence theory guide brought great amounts of people here including myself

First of all, the "fault" lies with the planners of the day's events. The compartmentalization of the op itself, which firewalled the various perps from any centralised holistic knowledge about the entire chain of events which led to the attacks, similarly prevents any third party onlookers from proving the guilt of those at the top of the chain of command. No one sees the entire sequence, so there is no conceptual point of view for understanding the event with completeness, as so elegantly utilised in the 11/22 business model. If no one knows the truth, what, then, can be the goal of 9/11 Truth? No goal = no strategy = all tactics and diversions, a playground for hucksters, conmen and disinformationalists.

smiths wrote:It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

My favorite quote from JFK!

smiths wrote:but perhaps there is a key. That key is banking/defence interests.

Well, that's certainly one component of it.

smiths wrote:i also suspect jeff wells of involvement, after all his suspiciously clever 9/11 coincidence theory guide brought great amounts of people here including myself

Wasnt this written over 5 and a half years ago? So many startling new and verified revelations. I mean why do we see the same players popping up again, like Anwar Awlaki, Mamoun Darkazanli, Zawahiri, etc. Its...almost if certain operatives are *protected* and serve a very special purpose for the deep state.

One time I'm kicking this shitty misleading discrediting thread title-This thread is poison. Blow away, 8bit. And take your fictitious 'hijackers' with you.

You remind me of that article about Obama's psyops advisor promoting "cognitive infiltration of the 9/11 movement."
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26667

So, you were lying the many times that you agreed there was an inside job. I thought so.
You have always promoted the 'hijacker' cover story plus 'who financed the hijackers' and denigrated 9/11 Truth at every chance you could with shitty threads like this all about 'who is cool' and 'what so-and-so thinks about so-and-so' as if this was a high school popularity contest.

Just like another coup, the murder of JFK, the government cannot admit the crime, nevermind prosecute someone for it.
So it is AWARENESS amongst the general population of WHAT THE CRIME WAS that is THE TRUTH MOVEMENT. And you are impeding that awareness, not helping one bit.

Contrary to your incessant denigrating negative-framing, the 9/11 Truth Movement is expanding and getting better informed all the time, thanks to the scientific evidence discovered and explained by Richard Gage of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
http://www.ae911truth.org/
and by renowned physicist Dr. Steven Jones and by Kevin Ryan, formerly of Underwriters Laboratories and by investigative journalist/author, David Ray Griffin.

The psyoperators are left holding a bag they cannot hide and can only throw mud at, the kind of mud you throw, 8bit.

Because it is impossible to hide that fact that three World Trade Center builidings were blown up.
All the optical evidence proves it.
All the process of destruction proves it.
All the laws of physics prove it.
Hundreds of witnesses claim it.
The cover-up points directly at it-

WTF hugh?

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Contrary to your incessant denigrating negative-framing, the 9/11 Truth Movement is expanding and getting better informed all the time, thanks to the scientific evidence discovered and explained by Richard Gage of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Right, "informed".
...like the missile hitting the pentagon and the passenger-less drone planes?

It seems to me like there's two subsets of "truth" out there. Those that follow the madlibs elephant telephone game and those that disseminate real world facts. You must not be a fan of Jeff's work, because he points out the biggest faux paus of the modern "truther" circus: taking al Qaeda out of the equation. And as all research points to, these little windup jihadist dupes are the bullets in the globalist gun.

Got any more tower death porn to show us?

While I sometimes feel demoralized by the various points which 8bit brought up, I disagree that the movement has been an abysmal failure. And I also heartily disagree with the idea that 9/11 was not an inside job. It is true that the ultimate masterminds may be some as-of-yet unknown deep state actors, but the neocons were most certainly involved at a very high level.

My main reason for believing in the growing success of 9/11 Truth stems from my observations during 5+ years of grassroots, on the street activism around the subject. Five years ago it was common for people to flip me and my friends off, scream profanities at us, and for cops to even threaten to arrest us. These days, such behavior is quite the exception, and many people give us thumbs up or even stop to thank us. Even people who have been too apathetic to really look into it will say things like, "Yeah, that's probably true." Some people even give us money, even though we don't solicit for donations.

agree kos, plenty of the neoconmen knew something was coming,

and the idea cheney is a true believer is black comedy gold,

i thoroughly enjoyed reading recently peter dale scotts thorough treatment of cheney in the tunnels on 9/11,
clearly he was the operational puppet master

Look at the case for invading Iraq and the anthrax investigation. With both we know a lot more about what went down than 9/11 yet no officials have been held accountable. With 9/11 many people put forth restrained (as in not speculative) skepticism that a government acting in good faith would have addressed in an above board manner.

A combination of factors explains the failure. One of the key factors is the media. People with access to government officials do not use that access to benefit the public. Instead the media colludes with the government to keep the public confused and fearful.

Its very possible to have a scenario where Dick Cheney is anally obsessed with "stopping al Qaeda" at any cost/using it to advance agendas as well as people like Khalid Sheikh Mohamed to be "obsessed with jihad"(and not caring he's been a puppet of Qatar, Kuwait, Pakistani ISI, etc over the years...and now, a disposable tampon rag)

If I was behind 9/11, I wouldn't want the neocons "in" on anything. I'd want them to be jizzing their pants when this early Christmas golden goose egg gift of 3000 dead people hit their laps 8 and a half years ago. The perfect football to run with. Of course now we know Iraq was all about oil for CHINA, not the US. No balkanization, no oil for the US...in fact, ultimately its possible all these actions are meant to destroy the US from within. This notion that the "US" controls all the worlds operations for the benefit of the US doesn't wash.

Now here's a book I cannot wait to read, by a REAL expert on 9/11(unlike David Ray Griffin)

http://www.amazon.com/Disconnecting-Dot ... 44&sr=8-10

The problem I take with the "Inside Job/al Qaeda innocent" theory is that it doesn't make any sense. It's a very sterile, short narrative that doesn't take into account all of the exhaustive research out there, like http://www.historycommons.org

(caveat: I dont care for the "allowed to happen" title, nor do I believe 9/11 was an "intelligence blunder/blowback" as a lot of the smarmy left seems to espouse)

8bitagent wrote:The problem I take with the "Inside Job/al Qaeda innocent" theory is that it doesn't make any sense. It's a very sterile, short narrative that doesn't take into account all of the exhaustive research out there, like http://www.historycommons.org

You are conflating two ideas which are not dependent on one another. I've never contended that Al Qaeda was not involved. As it has been said,

"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the chicken is involved but the pig is committed."

And I agree that historycommons.org is one of, if not the best, research sites on the net. In fact, given that site's excellent summary of Ali Mohammed, and the involvement of U.S. government agencies in the '93 bombing of the WTC, I fail to see how you can contend that the same agencies weren't involved in 9/11.

8bitagent wrote:7. All of the above?

It's holy number 7.

In the end, the synarchs win. They always do.

operator kos wrote:

8bitagent wrote:The problem I take with the "Inside Job/al Qaeda innocent" theory is that it doesn't make any sense. It's a very sterile, short narrative that doesn't take into account all of the exhaustive research out there, like http://www.historycommons.org

You are conflating two ideas which are not dependent on one another. I've never contended that Al Qaeda was not involved. As it has been said,

"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the chicken is involved but the pig is committed."

And I agree that historycommons.org is one of, if not the best, research sites on the net. In fact, given that site's excellent summary of Ali Mohammed, and the involvement of U.S. government agencies in the '93 bombing of the WTC, I fail to see how you can contend that the same agencies weren't involved in 9/11.

Well you always have "good guy" FBI agents who get short changed. Rowley, Wright, O'neil, Samit, etc. I do believe there were those FBI agents wanting to prevent the 1993 bombing. But I also know the plot was attached to the al Kifah(neo Maktab al Khadamat/al Qaeda franchise) Center, the blind sheikh(on a CIA visa), etc. And this Brooklyn/Jersey thread of course connects to Able Danger, Hamburg Cell, and the Ali Mohamed-Whadid el Hage-Darkazanli nexus.

I still believe Ptech is a crucial key. As it connects the world of Al Kifah(Care Intl), Saudi terror financiers, bin Laden financiers, etc and connects them intimately to the deepest bowels of the US security state computer infrastructure.

My biggest question is: Why are the CIA, Blackwater, FBI, etc obsessed with killing al Qaeda guys? It's just hard for me to buy the Infowars meme of "al CIAda"...could it be, both the CIA and terror groups are manipulated into fighting eachother, yet both are under the control of the same interests?

8bitagent wrote:Its very possible to have a scenario where Dick Cheney is anally obsessed with "stopping al Qaeda" at any cost/using it to advance agendas as well as people like Khalid Sheikh Mohamed to be "obsessed with jihad"(and not caring he's been a puppet of Qatar, Kuwait, Pakistani ISI, etc over the years...and now, a disposable tampon rag)

If I was behind 9/11, I wouldn't want the neocons "in" on anything. I'd want them to be jizzing their pants when this early Christmas golden goose egg gift of 3000 dead people hit their laps 8 and a half years ago. The perfect football to run with. Of course now we know Iraq was all about oil for CHINA, not the US. No balkanization, no oil for the US...in fact, ultimately its possible all these actions are meant to destroy the US from within. This notion that the "US" controls all the worlds operations for the benefit of the US doesn't wash.

If Cheney was truly concerned about al Qaeda then what explains the contradictions and inconsistent behavior (i.e. opposition to an investigation)? Look at Cheney's conduct in regards to Iraq/Hussein. It was the same as his stance towards al Qaeda yet we know that the whole Iraq policy was based on fixing the facts to fit the desired policy. Cheney was all about increasing the power of the Executive branch. Did torture prove he was obsessed with going after al Qaeda? No. The public information about torture strongly suggests it was intended for other purposes than attaining reliable information. If Cheney cared so much about al Qaeda then why did he support the diversion into Iraq?

IMO having read a few books on Cheney (Gellman, Nichols, Dubose) he is all about promoting deep state/Shock Doctrine interests. He is all about manipulating the public to advance crony capitalism.