Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

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Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby barracuda » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:31 pm

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N.L. residents puzzled by 'oversized bullets' in sky

Residents of a small coastal Newfoundland community are wondering if several objects shaped like "huge, oversized bullets" seen soaring through the sky on Monday evening were missiles.

"I went to take a picture of the sunset and when I went to do it, I saw these objects in the sky," said Darlene Stewart, a resident of Harbour Mille, N.L., who, with her boyfriend, said she watched one missile-like object for 10 minutes, snapping several photos before the mystery projectile disappeared from view. "At first I didn't have a clue until we looked through the binoculars, but we still weren't quite sure but what we've seen from movies ... it looked like a missile."

Government officials weren't saying on Wednesday what the objects might have been, but the mystery caught the attention of news outlets and police in Newfoundland.

"We confirmed that it was something," Sergeant Wayne Edgecombe told CBC News on Wednesday. But he wouldn't reveal what the investigation uncovered.

A grainy photo shot by Ms. Stewart shows a tube-like object flying at a 45-degree angle to the left against a grey sky, with an orange flame trailing behind. Ms. Stewart said she saw two other similar objects on the horizon, including one that appeared to be flying straight up into the air.

Neighbour Emmy Pardy also saw the objects from her balcony and says she was afraid they might hit land.

"With the naked eye, it kind of looked like a huge, oversized bullet," said Ms. Pardy, 47, who is the town's postmaster. "It made me feel a bit uneasy because knowing that there were three of them out there, I was worried something was going on out in the bay ... I was scared about where they would land."

She says an RCMP officer called her at home twice and confirmed her suspicion that what the three neighbours saw were in fact missiles and were fired from the French islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon, about 25 kilometres off the southern coast of N.L.

"[The officer] said it was a missile and it was sent off over the French islands, and it was set off by the army over there," Ms. Pardy said.

Yesterday however, RCMP spokesman Sergeant Andrew Buckle would not confirm the sighting was a missile. "The investigation is ongoing and we will be working with our various partners," he said. "At this point it is not a criminal investigation so we will be doing very minor checks on it."

Captain Kendra Allison, a spokeswoman for the Department of National Defence, told the National Post there were no planned Canadian missile exercises off the eastern seaboard Monday evening.

"We don't see any threat to Canada at this time based on the sightings," she said. "As far as we're concerned, things are as per normal."

A NORAD spokesperson also confirmed that the United States had no planned missile activity of any sort in the area.

David Charbonneau, a spokesman for Public Safety Canada, said the government was aware of reports of public sightings of unidentified objects in the sky off the coast of Newfoundland, but referred all questions to the RCMP.

On Wednesday morning, the French military confirmed it had completed submarine-based missile testing off the northwest coast of France. The testing concluded at 4:55 a.m., Newfoundland standard time, but there was no confirmed start time. The test was the first in a series of six planned in 2010 for the M51 nuclear missile.

According to the French military, the M51 has a range of approximately 10,000 kilometres. The distance between the test site in Audierne Bay, France, and Harbour Mille is only 3,800 kilometres.

François Delattre, the French ambassador to Canada, who was at the National Post's offices on Wednesday on unrelated business, appeared to have little knowledge of the incident.

"I have just arrived in Toronto, I am sorry I have no comment," Mr. Delattre said.

Alex Morrison, a military analyst at Dalhousie University's Centre for Foreign Policy Studies, said the photo taken by Ms. Stewart appears to be that of a missile and suggested it could have come from a submarine.

"It would surprise me if the French or Americans were going to be conducting missile shoots in that area that they would not have told the Canadian government," he said, adding that he's never heard of French military forces being deployed to the islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon.

"I don't think there's any sizeable military there so it would lead me to believe that it might be a sea launch," Mr. Morrison said.

"It may well be that the agreement with the Canadian government says that any public statements made will have to be made by the government doing the firing. There's a whole bunch of maybes."

Liberal MP Gerry Byrne, who represents the Newfoundland riding of Humber-St. Barbe-Baie Verte, told CBC News that with Parliament prorogued, he is left with a number of unanswered questions about any possible military operations in the area.

"There's a credible body of evidence that suggests there's something spectacular happened off of our shore," Mr. Byrne said. "Before this goes any farther, I think the government needs to actually respond very quickly with a straightforward, factual statement."

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DND, RCMP mum on UFO mystery

People who saw a missile-like object soaring through the sky over a small rural community in Newfoundland Monday night are getting no answers about what it was, although police say they'd gotten to the bottom of the mystery.

Darlene Stewart spotted the object while taking pictures of the sunset over Harbour Mille, a community of about 200 residents on the south coast of the province. She says she started snapping photos.

She then called her neighbour, Emmy Pardy, and the two women, along with Stewart's husband, say they saw three similar objects flying through the air minutes apart, one up close and two farther off in the distance.

"I really did get sick to my stomach, I was shaking when I seen it," Stewart told CBC News Wednesday. "We were just in awe of what we seen."

The photos taken by Stewart show blurry pictures of what appears to be a long, round object, much like a missile, seemingly rising from the ocean, with either smoke or flames shooting out the back end.

Objects made no noise

Stewart said the objects didn't make any noise.

"We confirmed that it was something," Sgt. Wayne Edgecombe told CBC News Wednesday. But Edgecombe said he couldn't reveal what the police investigation uncovered.

He said the focus of any police investigation is on whether something criminal has occurred.

"It's nothing criminal," he said, in relation to the unidentified object.

Edgecombe said he contacted the Department of National Defence and "they gave me some info," but he said that it is up to that department to release the information publicly.

Defence department officials were refusing comment.

The sighting has intrigued people in the Harbour Mille area, with some saying they were told by officers who were in the community Tuesday investigating the sightings, that the objects were test missiles launched from the nearby French islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon.

Edgecombe said that rumour is completely false.

The suggestion that the object possibly involved the military has Liberal MP Gerry Byrne, who represents the Newfoundland riding of Humber-St. Barbe-Baie Verte, demanding answers.

"There's a credible body of evidence," Byrne told CBC News, "that suggests there's something spectacular happened off of our shore. Before this goes any farther, I think the government needs to actually respond very quickly with a straightforward, factual statement."
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby Jeff » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:47 pm

Where questions go to die

January 27, 2010 9:04 PM

It was a difficult, frustrating day in the military affairs corner of the CBC's Parliamentary Bureau.

It's a small corner that typically hums with activity. There's the sound of the loudly-clacking keyboard, the softly-clicking computer mouse, the ringing of phones, the buzzing of a Blackberry and the loud exclamations of a reporter (Scoop, we'll call him) uncovering dirt, malfeasance and hitherto unknown bits of important news and information.

And Wednesday for Scoop, looked like it would really no different. There was the promise of news - early in the day, thank the blessed news gods - and of stories to consequently write and tell. And there was the promise of lots of it. By 10:20 a.m., the news started rolling in: A news conference on Afghan detainees was about to start. Surely that would give Scoop something to tell the nation that night.

And then there was a mysterious email, fired off by Scoop's boss - a hardened news hound who, insists he could sniff out a story at 10 paces - containing what appeared to be journalistic gold.

"Apparently the French are using St. Pierre to launch some rocket that will travel over Newfoundland," the Boss wrote. "Check it out."

The questions started to bubble up from the back of Scoop's mind.

Was the story true? Were the French, in a fit of independiste Gallic pique and military pride, refusing to notify Canada of a missile launch, from islands mere kilometres from sovereign Canadian territory?

Was it really the French? Were the Russians messing about in submarines, or was it the Americans? Did Liechtenstein suddenly acquire a sea-going navy and declare war on Canada for some obscure trade slight? And what was the Government of Canada going to do about it?

These were the questions that troubled Scoop. He needed answers. No, the country needed answers.

...

The breezy annoyance continues here.

Three words: Ghost Rockets, eh?
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby barracuda » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:32 pm

PMO says mystery object isn't a missile

The Prime Minister's Office wants residents in Harbour Mille, N.L., to know it was not a missile they saw in their evening sky.

But the PMO, or any government agency, can't or won't explain what flashed over the coast of the tiny, rural village Monday night, sparking growing curiosity in the town and beyond.

"There is no indication that there was ever a rocket launch," Prime Minister Steven Harper's press secretary Dimitri Soudas said in an e-mail to QMI Agency.

On Monday night, Darlene Stewart spotted the object while she was outside in her yard and took a photo of it. She told media outlets she hoped to blow up the image on her computer screen to see what it was, but even then she couldn't make out what it was exactly.

The image appears to be the shape of a rocket, leaving a trail behind it.

Neighbour Emmy Pardy told CTV that the item was "a humungous bullet, silver-grey in colour and it had flames coming out of the bottom and a trail of smoke." Suspicions that it might have been a missile continued to grow after reports that France launched a M51 from a submarine off its shores in the Atlantic as part of missile testing. An M51 has a range of 8,000 km. France and Newfoundland are 4,000 kms apart.

Since the sighting on Monday, there's been much talk in the small town by residents who have been speculating about what they saw in the night sky, debating anything from the missile theory to debris falling from the atmosphere, or maybe even an alien spacecraft.

Humber-St. Barbe-Baie Verte Liberal MP Gerry Byrne has said he wants answers from the federal government about what exactly they know about the incident.

Fellow Liberal Judy Foote, the MP for Random-Burin-St. George, has also spoken out, asking federal officials to tell residents what's happening and give reassurances there's no need to worry.

The RCMP, meanwhile, has concluded its investigation, saying there was no debris or evidence found and it is "an unexplained sighting."


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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby justdrew » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:02 am

my guess is a US test of these types of things:

http://www.google.com/search?q=rods+from+the+gods
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby Sepka » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:42 am

I don't think that's an M51. See how the exhaust forks into two streams, and see how shock diamonds are visible, especially on the bottom stream? That's liquid fueled, with a double-engine booster. An American Titan II leaves a trail like that, and so does a Russian R-27. Both of those have been obsolete and out of service for some 20 years now, and only the R-27 was designed for submarine launching anyway. The North Koreans, however, have built their own version of the R-27 and have it currently in service, as does Iran. I suspect that one of the two are churlishly threatening, and I further suspect that the submarines involved won't be returning to port.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby justdrew » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:15 am

it's not very bright though for a missile... that's why I think the smoke is from re-entry heat ablation.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby Sepka » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:31 am

Most modern ICBMs use solid boosters, with aluminum powder in the mix. That's what gives that bright white flame. Liquid fuel flames, especially hydrazine flames (which the Titan and R-27 both use) aren't too bright. The link goes to a *huge* picture of a Titan II test launch - note the pale, transparent orange exhaust, with ragged shock diamonds forming.

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/ ... 6D-026.jpg
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby justdrew » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:43 am

yeah, I see what you mean, it could indeed be a liquid fuel missile. That's freaking weird. you really think NK could be cruising around in some sub able to launch four of these in rapid succession? or two or four subs? and this was them trying to send a message? jeez. or Iran? that's a mildly alarming concept...
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby jingofever » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:30 pm

Was it a missile, or a hoax?:

However, Billy Allan, an associate professor of mechanical engineering at Canada's Royal Military College, quickly poked a few holes in any missile theory after viewing the photo.

The object looked to be subsonic (too slow) and much smaller than the M51 or any large missile. Missile tests rarely take place near communities, he said.

Dr. Allan called it "a subsonic something or other," that may well be a hoax.

There you go, it was a subsonic something or other. (I assume he was basing his opinion of the speed on the witness testimony, not just a photo.) But definitely not a missile, says the Canadian government, though it does a nice impression of one.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby jingofever » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:54 pm

Experts differ on whether UFOs are missiles, models:

Aerospace specialists are split on whether objects spotted in the sky over Newfoundland this week were dangerous missiles, or simply model rockets.

Two Harbour Mille, Newfoundland neighbours took photos of three large, silver, bullet-shaped objects at dusk on Monday night. The women insist the objects were missiles.

The Canadian government said there were no military training sessions scheduled for that day, and speculation hit a fever pitch after France announced it successfully launched a missile on Wednesday, two days after the women took the photos.

Dr. David Greatrix, a professor of Aerospace Engineering at Ryerson University in Toronto said he is 90 per cent certain the objects in the photographs are military rockets.

“This is not an amateur rocket. This is more likely a military missile,” said Greatrix, who specializes in rocket propulsion.

“If it was an amateur rocket launched from a boat as a joke, it’s possible, but the trajectory of that angle, you’d see it more vertical,” he said. The women described the objects as travelling diagonally upwards.

There was no official military activity in Newfoundland around the time the objects were seen, but Greatrix says all signs suggest the objects were part of a military training exercise -- whether planned or otherwise.

He said the plume of smoke leads him to believe the object is moving towards a training target, but noted: “There is a very small chance that it was an inadvertent launch."

Greatrix said the objects are not likely long-range ballistic missiles, but rather “surface-to-air” missiles, which are smaller and are launched by a ship to protect against incoming missiles.

“The fact that it’s off of Newfoundland, it’s hard to believe it would be a ballistic missile.”

Greatrix said testing a surface-to-air missile would not cause damage because crews on the ground would detonate it before it could hit land.

Travelling too slow to be a ballistic missile

But Dr. Billy Allan, a former experimental flight test engineer with the Department of National Defence, says the objects appear to be travelling at less than the speed of sound.

That rules out the French ballistic M51 missile that travels 13,000 kilometres per hour, said Allan, who is now a professor at Royal Military College in Kingston, Ont.

“There’s nothing that travels that fast that you can sit there and take pictures of it,” he said.

He also said the objects are unlikely to be surface-to-air weapons because the plume of smoke would be longer.

Allan said it is unlikely that tests would be done close to towns or villages, and said anyone launching test aircraft must apply to Transport Canada for permission.

“Official (tests) which aren’t cheap, are done in official ranges, because they need to know how it performs,” he said.

“There’s no credible agency in Canada or the allies that would be testing anything off the coast of Newfoundland.”

Allan said he can’t be sure of the size of the objects from the photos, but said they could be sophisticated model rockets.

“They make pretty big models,” he said, explaining that his students launched rockets last year.

“It is quite an impressive display,” he said, describing the smoke and fire their metre-long rockets emitted.

Jeremy Laliberte, Assistant Professor of Aerospace Engineering at Carleton University in Ottawa says the size of objects over the ocean could be misinterpreted from a distance.

He said model rocket motors can often explode like fireworks and shoot fire like the objects in the photos did.

He said launches usually end after only a few seconds, but if something goes wrong, they can remain suspended in air for up to 15 minutes.

“My first thought was some sort of hobbyist with a home built thing gone awry, and they may not want to admit it,” he said.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby barracuda » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:30 pm

I have some experience with model rockets on the three and four foot scale and above, and the burn is absolutely nothing like that. They may as well be saying "swamp gas". Here's a video of the world's record largest model rocket at launch. Observe the burn, the angle, the brevity of the flight, etc.

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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby StarmanSkye » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:26 am

Man, how WiErD.

First off, the 'exhaust' seems entirely wrong -- backwards from what one would expect from a missile, ie. bright shiny flames with a finely-defined convex-shape tapering off into a stream of smoke that flares out again. This 'exhaust' has a fine taper of dark smoky stuff that fans out into a dull orangish wash that expands. It sort-of looks like I'd expect a largish bit of space-debris entering at a low, almost flat angle with dense material ablating off it, like smoky chaff that doesn't immediately burn but visibly combusting/oxidizing some good distance behind it -- as if whatever substance it was composed of needed to shred and mix more thoroughly with oxygen in air before the substance flares-up and burns. Sort of how heavy, dense thick smoke filled with combustable vapors doesn't burn until the smoky-cloud expands and mixes with sufficient air, and THEN it spontaneously ignites.

Another big puzzle -- the apparent sub-sonic speed of the 'falling'm if not actually flying, object -- in one case being watched for 10 minutes. Also, it didn't make any evident noise.

COULD it be some large, VERY high-up, secret test of something like a Ramjet cone-type flying machine? But why in such a noticeable time, place and manner? And what of the 'other' two similiar objects?

Could it be a semi-amateur air-to-air subsonic rocket?

Well, my money is on it being some falling space-debris, mebbe a chunk of titanium -- or a slow-moving heavy-metal meteor. But the problem there is that even if whatever it is entered at a shallow angle, the air resistance would cause it to slow-down and lack of aeronautic lift vs drag would cause the thing's angle-of-attack to become more and more a straight-down plunge. But if its 'burning' is ablative combustion, it has to be moving at a pretty high rate of speed -- which doesn't accord with evident eyewitness observation esp. watched during a 10-minute fall. Obsolete satellites or other man-made space-debris having decayed orbit and rentering earth's atmosphere wouldn't fall so slowly, or quietly, would it? I'm recalling the last space-shuttle's fiery breakup, burn and crash across the New Mexico/Texas skies. Didn't it produce an audible but far-distant roar? How fast was it going when it started to break-up? Anyone know offhand?

Hey, mebbe its a self-propelled imitation meteor with remote-controlled lift-surfaces?

Like I said -- Wierd.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby justdrew » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:45 am

it wasn't an it... there were four of thee things seen

despite the possibility of a liquid fueled rocket, I still think it looks more like something coming in hot from space.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby StarmanSkye » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:15 am

Hmmm ... Where do you get four, from? The three stories above of witness statements all report seeing 3 objects. Did I miss something?

Anyway, I agree with ya. I think they're spacejunk burning up on reentry, though acting very odd. Very strange nobody who ought to know about 'em are saying so.
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Re: Bullet UFOs sighted over Newfoundland.

Postby justdrew » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:00 am

StarmanSkye wrote:Hmmm ... Where do you get four, from? The three stories above of witness statements all report seeing 3 objects. Did I miss something?

Anyway, I agree with ya. I think they're spacejunk burning up on reentry, though acting very odd. Very strange nobody who ought to know about 'em are saying so.


I get four from the second story:
Darlene Stewart spotted the object while taking pictures of the sunset over Harbour Mille, a community of about 200 residents on the south coast of the province. She says she started snapping photos.

She then called her neighbour, Emmy Pardy, and the two women, along with Stewart's husband, say they saw three similar objects flying through the air minutes apart, one up close and two farther off in the distance.
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