Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

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Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:15 pm

Thanks to the tendency of religious factionalism to facilitate imperial divide-and-conquer, that is.

You gotta hand it to PCR for cutting through many kinds of bullshit in the following article, which should make for an interesting debate.

Doctor's Warning: Some hyperbole may occur. It may lend itself to easy misinterpretations, either that he is blaming the victims for their plight, or advancing a notion that "Muslims" should, because of the happenstance of being born into a religion and culture, present unanimity in all things. What he is noting is the lack of unity against foreign aggression. He could add that this lack of unity is largely due to the most anti-foreign and aggressive elements, the hardcore Islamist factions who are instrumentalized (and of course pumped up) by US policy as the ideal enemy. With some of the statements he makes about "Muslims," such as, "Another factor is the willingness of some Muslims to betray their own kind for U.S. dollars," he should have noted that this applies to "human beings" in general. Further caveats after the article.



http://counterpunch.org/roberts03022010.html

March 2, 2010
Muslim Disunity
A Religion Divided Against Itself

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Muslims are numerous but powerless. Divisions among Muslims, especially between Sunni and Shi’ites, have consigned the Muslim Middle East to almost a century of Western control. Muslims cannot even play together. The Islamic Solidarity Games, a regional version of the Olympics, which were to be held in April in Iran, have been cancelled, because the Iranians and the Arabs cannot agree on whether to call the body of water that separates Iran from the Arabian Peninsula the Persian Gulf or the Arabian Gulf.

Muslim disunity has made it possible for Israel to dispossess the Palestinians, for the U.S. to invade Iraq, and for the U.S. to rule much of the region through puppets. For example, in exchange for faithful service, Egypt receives $1.5 billion a year from Washington, which enables President Mubarak to buy off opposition. The opposition had rather have the money than support the Palestinians. Therefore, Egypt cooperates with Israel and the U.S. in the blockade of Gaza.

Another factor is the willingness of some Muslims to betray their own kind for U.S. dollars. Don’t take my word for it. Listen to neoconservative Kenneth Timmerman, head of the Foundation for Democracy, which describes itself as “a private, non-profit organization established in 1995 with grants from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) to promote democracy and internationally-recognized standards of human rights in Iran.”

By now we all know what that means. It means that the U.S. finances a “velvet” or some “color revolution” in order to install a U.S. puppet. Just prior to the sudden appearance of a “green revolution” in Tehran primed to protest an election, Timmerman wrote that “the National Endowment for Democracy has spent millions of dollars during the past decade promoting ‘color’ revolutions in places such as Ukraine and Serbia, training political workers in modern communications and organizational techniques. Some of that money appears to have made it into the hands of pro-Mousavi groups, who have ties to non-governmental organizations outside Iran that the National Endowment for Democracy funds.” So, according to the neocon Timmerman, funded by the National Endowment for Democracy, it was U.S. money that funded Mousavi’s claims that Armadinejad stole the last Iranian election.

During President George W. Bush’s regime it became public knowledge that American money is used to purchase Iranians to work against their own country. The Washington Post, a newspaper sympathetic to the neocon’s goal of American hegemony and war with Iran, reported in 2007 that Bush authorized spending more than $400 million for activities that included “supporting rebel groups opposed to the country’s ruling clerics.”

This makes the U.S. government a “state sponsor of terrorism.” For confirmation, one of the U.S. paid operatives, who conducted terror operations in Iran, has ratted on his terrorist supporters in Washington. Abdulmalek Rigi, leader of the Baloch separatist group responsible for several attacks, was recently arrested by the Iranians. Rigi admitted that the Americans in Washington assured him of unlimited military aid and funding for waging an insurgency against the Islamic Republic of Iran. (Read his confession here.)

Possibly he was tortured into confession. It is the American way. If the “light of the world,” the “indispensable people,” and the “shining city on the hill” tortures people, perhaps the Iranians do as well. Rigi’s younger brother, himself on death row in Iran, has said that the U.S. provided direct funding to the separatist group and even ordered specific terrorist attacks inside Iran

The U.S. and its NATO puppets have been killing Afghan women, children, and village elders since October 7, 2001, when the U.S. military invasion “Operation Enduring Freedom,” a proper Orwellian title for a self-serving war of aggression, was launched. The U.S. installed puppet president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, is bought and paid for with U.S. dollars.

The money that Washington gives Karzai finances the corruption that supports him. Karzai’s corruption and his treason against the Afghan people encourage the Taliban to keep fighting in order to achieve a government that serves Afghans instead of Washington, D.C.

Without the puppet Karzai selling out Afghans to Washington, the U.S. would have already been driven out of the country. With Karzai paying Afghans with American money to fight Afghans for the Americans, the war drones on into its ninth year.

Feminists, liberals, and naive American flag-wavers will say that what is written here is utter rot, that Americans are in Afghanistan to bring women’s rights and birth control to Afghan women and to bring freedom, democracy and progress to Afghanistan, even if it means leveling every village, town, and house in the country. We, “the indispensable people,” are only there to do good, because we care so much for the Afghan people who live in a country that most Americans can’t find on a map.

While this collection of naifs rants on about America “saving” Afghans from whatever, the White House and the Congress are conspiring against the American people to cut $500 billion dollars out of Medicare in order to give the money to private insurance companies. Jobless benefits are about to run out for millions of Americans, whose jobs have been moved offshore in order to make the rich richer. The U.S. Senate failed on Friday, Feb. 26, to extend jobless benefits. A single Republican Senator, Jim Bunning of Kentucky, was able to block the bill because it would cost a measly $10 billion and “would add to the budget deficit.”

The “fiscally responsible” Bunning supports blank checks for wars of aggression (war crimes under the Nuremberg standard) and payoffs to investment banks for wrecking the retirement plans of most Americans. Bunning sends the bills to the unorganized and unrepresented Americans, whose jobs have been stolen by corporate offshoring of jobs and whose retirements have been stolen by the endless greed of the Wall Street investment banks.

What fool believes that the U.S. government, which is totally indifferent to the fate of its own citizens, cares so much about Afghanistan that it will spend blood and treasure to bring “progress” and “women’s rights” to a country half a world away, while it drives its own citizens into the ground?

At Washington’s behest, the government of Pakistan is conducting war against its own people, killing many and forcing others to flee their homes and lands. The Pakistani government’s war against its own citizens has caused military expenses to soar, putting Pakistan’s budget deep in the red. Deputy US Treasury Secretary Neal Wolin ordered the Pakistani government to raise taxes to pay for the war against its own people.

The puppet ruler, Asif Ali Zardari, complied with his American master’s orders. Zardari declared a broad-based value added tax on virtually all goods and most services in Pakistan. Thus, Pakistanis are forced to finance a war against themselves.

The “cakewalk war” in Iraq has lasted 7 years instead of the promised 6 weeks, and the violence is still ongoing with Iraqis killed and maimed nearly every day. The reason Americans are still in Iraq is because the Iraqis hate each other more than they hate the American invader. The vast majority of the violence in “the Iraq war” was committed between Iraqi Sunnis and Iraqi Shi’ites as they cleansed one another from neighborhoods.

The majority Shi’ites regarded the American invasion of Iraq as an opportunity to gain power over the minority Sunnis, who ruled under Saddam Hussein. Therefore, the Shi’ites never engaged the American invading forces. The minority Sunnis (20 percent of the population) gave most of their effort to fighting the Shi’ite majority, but in their spare time a few thousand Sunnis were able to inflict serious losses on the American superpower.

Finally realizing the power of lucre in the Arab world, the Americans put 80,000 Sunnis on the U.S. military payroll and paid them to stop killing Americans.

This is how the U.S. won the war in Iraq. Iraqis sold out their independence for American dollars.

Considering that a few thousand Sunnis were able to prevent superpower America from successfully occupying Baghdad or much of Iraq, had the Shi’ites joined with the Sunnis against the invaders, the U.S. would have been defeated and driven out. This outcome was not possible, because the Shi’ites wanted to settle the score with the Sunnis, who had ruled them under Saddam Hussein.

This is the reason that Iraq today is in ruins, with one million dead, four million displaced or homeless, and the professional class having fled the country. Iraq, under the American puppet Maliki, is an American protectorate.

As long as Muslims hate and fear one another more than they hate their conquerers, they will remain a vanquished people.

Paul Craig Roberts was an editor of the Wall Street Journal and an Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury. His latest book, HOW THE ECONOMY WAS LOST, has just been published by CounterPunch/AK Press. He can be reached at: PaulCraigRoberts@yahoo.com


"Therefore, the Shi’ites never engaged the American invading forces." - Moqtada did for a few months in 2004 to gain some chips, before the Iranians told him to shut it down.

"Feminists, liberals..." Come on, is this really needed? Ironic for an article that argues one size does not fit all.

"This is how the U.S. won the war in Iraq..." Well, only once "winning" was redefined as pacification of the insurgency and reduction of US casualties, now that the US forces are mostly behind the walls of their own fortresses. There was no achievement either of the goals as stated in the original propaganda (as the objectives of removing non-existent WMDs and punishing for a a non-existent 9/11 link were impossible), or of the intermediary propaganda (democracy, peace and prosperity, a shining example to other Arab nations), or of the presumed real goals (no big oil contracts, and we'll see if the bases are kept in the end). Except insofar as the goal was also to destroy, divide and weaken Iraq. That mission was accomplished, for now.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby nathan28 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:41 pm

Why do you hate freedom, you naive liberal Democrat who thinks we shouldn't be dropping bombs on brown babies?
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby jam.fuse » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:42 am

In Berlin, DE, where I've recently resided for about a year and a half, Islamism, or Islamic culture, or more specifically the local Turkish and Arab population is definitely experienced as a "big threat" by the local German population.
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby Hammer of Los » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:52 am

Responding initially to the op title, without reading the text, I would say no.

Popular resistance movements to oppressive policies and regimes in the Islamic world are driven into the arms of the fundamentalist Islamist International dope dealer terrorist crew, who are well connected with other agencies of global span. Some might say a catspaw. Others might think it is a relationship fostered and controlled in pursuit of actually a rather wide variety of objectives. At the very least it allows them to delegitimise any popular opposition movements.

Political Islam I would oppose personally. I think I like the Churches less than the State. Let's keep them separate. But of course political Islam has no legs outside of the Arab world. You see, your question, even before I have read the PCR piece, invites an entire thesis.

But lumping people together under a certain label is a bit silly. I hate human beings being defined by one thing. Drug addict, homosexual, convict, alpha male, muslim, christian, jew, buddhist, conspiracy theorist, terrorist, agw denier, troll. Folk slap labels on all sorts of people, for all sorts of reasons. Of course, one may be all those things one day, and none of them the next. The potential of the human being is vast. But it seems clear to me that it is entirely inadequate to any sort of reasoned analysis to lump huge numbers of otherwise entirely different people purely because they are muslims.

Paul Craig Roberts? This guy is interesting, you know;

wiki wrote:Paul Craig Roberts (born April 3, 1939, in Atlanta, Georgia) is an economist and a nationally syndicated columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as a co-founder of Reaganomics."[1] He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. He is a graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology and he holds a Ph.D. from the University of Virginia. He was a post-graduate at the University of California, Berkeley, and Oxford University where he was a member of Merton College.

In 1992 he received the Warren Brookes Award for Excellence in Journalism. In 1993 the Forbes Media Guide ranked him as one of the top seven journalists in the United States.[2]

His writings frequently appear on OpEdNews, Antiwar.com, VDARE.com. Lew Rockwell's web site, CounterPunch, and the American Free Press. Roberts has been featured as a guest on the Political Cesspool radio show.


Counterpunch and the American Free Press? Gosh, thats got the political spectrum covered then. I guess he's a populist. I should like him. Especially since he is writing very favourably about architects and engineers for 911 truth.

Ok, so I read the article. It seems a clarion call for unity, not so much by muslims, but by the populations of countries that find themselves under attack by American and allied forces. He suggests they join together to expel the invaders. He'd get in trouble saying that if he were a muslim. And brown. Fortunately he's white and writes for American Free Press. Yes, he does rather blame the victim. I just figure the black ops crew are too good at their divide and conquer games. But its quite reasonable to advise the victims of these games to wise up, if they want to resist the imperial power. Maybe they don't. Maybe the imperial power will help their country. I mean, its possible. But what Paul Crag Roberts is advocating is the whole population uniting to fight the foreign enemy. It's almost treasonable. I wouldn't want to publish an article like that. I guess Counterpunch can get away with it though.

As to whether Islam is a threat to muslims, I'm trying to figure out what that means. I don't support any organised religion. I don't like dogmatists and creed spouters. But I haven't read the Koran, although I tried, I thought it was too large and boring. The Christian churches always supported the ruling warlords in the west. Perhaps it is the same in the Islamic world. But it is not for me to say whether they should be muslims or even whether they should live under a theocracy. Although I would rather they didn't.

Sorry to ramble. I should tidy up and add some more. Maybe later.
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:01 pm

JackRiddler wrote:"Therefore, the Shi’ites never engaged the American invading forces." - Moqtada did for a few months in 2004 to gain some chips, before the Iranians told him to shut it down.


It wasn't the Iranians who shut down his newspaper.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:10 pm

Not his newspaper, but his offensive was shut down in part because of pressure from Iran and the threat of an split within the Shi'a into pro- and anti-Iranian factions.

Another question for PCR's article is, whose "puppet" is Maliki really? In large part the Shi'a parties' collaboration with the Americans is the result of Iranian influence, who are looking to a establish long-term hegemony over or at least an axis with Iraq, rather than indulging in the pleasure of making trouble for the Americans now. In turn, it's one of the reasons why the Pentagon insiders turned against the neocon "Bomb Iran" tide in 2007, effectively putting the final end to the Bush regime's plans for further war (and setting up 2008). They needed Iran to pacify Iraq.
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby yathrib » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:45 pm

A lot of what PCR makes sense, with the usual caveats. But call me old fashioned, or a Zionist stooge, or whatever, but this bothers me: "Roberts has been featured as a guest on the Political Cesspool radio show."




The Political Cesspool
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The Political Cesspool Black silhouette of a man wearing a white-and-red striped hat, then a vertical bar, then "POLITICAL CESSPOOL" Other names "The South's Foremost Conservative Populist Radio Program"[1]
Genre Talk Show
Running time 3 hours
Country United States
Languages English
Home station WLRM
Syndicates Liberty News Radio Network,[2][3] Stormfront,[4] and Accent Radio Network[5]
Starring James Edwards, Bill Rolen, Winston Smith, Eddie "The Bombardier" Miller[6]
Creators James Edwards, Austin Farley[6]
Producers Art Frith
Recording studio Millington, Tennessee, USA
Air dates since October 26, 2004
No. of episodes One per week (formerly nightly)
Sponsor(s) Listener-supported
Website thepoliticalcesspool.org
Podcast Podbean

The Political Cesspool is a weekly radio show syndicated by Liberty News Radio Network, Accent Radio Network, and Stormfront Radio, a service of the white nationalist and supremacist website Stormfront.org. First broadcast in 2004 twice a week from radio station WMQM, it is currently broadcast from Millington, Tennessee, from radio station WLRM on Saturday nights.



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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:45 am

I didn't know that. It upsets me.

So much of what he writes is spot-on, and often he's the only one saying it. He also usually gives me a sense he's a whore for attention and controversy. When talking 9/11, it's always demolitions out the gate, so I don't quote him on that. What astounds is that he's a father of Reaganomics but has taken a turn to outright socialist talk and acknowledged ecology as the real basis for economics. The critique of externalized costs is practically the opposite of the neoliberalism he helped to usher in.

I agree Nazis are the one group you don't talk with, or find strategic common ground. Ugh.
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:40 pm

JackRiddler wrote:What astounds is that he's a father of Reaganomics but has taken a turn to outright socialist talk and acknowledged ecology as the real basis for economics.


Yeah, that sure does astound, don't it.

He plays to the conservative populist demographic. And he gets on Counterpunch.

That astounds too.

So, what exactly is going on with PCR?

He reminds me a bit of that Morgan Reynolds guy, the no planer who goes on about laser beams from space along with Jim Fetzer, who plays the part of lunatic conspiracy theorist rather well.

Right woos left? Is that what they call it?

To be honest, I am not sure what it is.

I did notice he uses the term "banksters."

Maybe he's just another kindly old palaeoconservative. Maybe I shouldn't be so paranoid.

Name a source I trust? You gotta be kidding me.

:lol:
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Re: Is Islam a big threat to anyone other than Muslims?

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:33 pm

Morgan Reynolds is nothing like that. PCR writes at times excellent big-picture analysis of political economy. Also, he doesn't talk demolitions so much as refer to it as a reason to disbelieve 9/11. Which is from within the "mainstream" of 9/11 truth and is not considered disinformation by most (even if I think it's been a disaster for the "movement"). It's something people have concluded from observing the evidence (even if they may be wrong). Whereas Reynolds pushes made up shit no one could imagine is true, together with a crew who are attacking the "movement."

Anyway, much as I like what he writes very often, I'm not going to be quoting it henceforth.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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