The Largest Problem of All

[Blue]

"Humans need physical touch, sight, sound, etc. to survive."

Unfortunately, this is also the underpinning of gross materialism as well.

Or our need to identify with the stuff in our lives.

I have to disagree with you there 23. Humans are animals with physical senses that enable them to survive as well as enjoy being alive. Yeah it's materialism to us who have bodies. Do you have a body, 23?

Identifying with stuff is not always a bad thing. Photographs of family members remind us where we came from. Objects that we receive as gifts remind us we are cared for by others. Stuff we find comfortable and finally can afford to purchase console us.

I think we all understand "we can't take it with us." But to say it is gross materialism to desire a pillow that helps me sleep is a bit much.

[23]

"Humans need physical touch, sight, sound, etc. to survive."

Unfortunately, this is also the underpinning of gross materialism as well.

Or our need to identify with the stuff in our lives.

I have to disagree with you there 23. Humans are animals with physical senses that enable them to survive as well as enjoy being alive. Yeah it's materialism to us who have bodies. Do you have a body, 23?

Identifying with stuff is not always a bad thing. Photographs of family members remind us where we came from. Objects that we receive as gifts remind us we are cared for by others. Stuff we find comfortable and finally can afford to purchase console us.

I think we all understand "we can't take it with us." But to say it is gross materialism to desire a pillow that helps me sleep is a bit much.

Your disagreement makes perfect sense to me. Coming from the perspective that you are.

Things do not come with intrinsic value, however. Their value is assigned by us. We are the issuers of value to the things in our life.

I value my body, but my body is not who I am. It is a temporary vehicle for me to inhabit while I participate in this dream many of us call life. And living lucidly is the purpose of opening my eyelids, one day at a time.

To the degree that we are attached to the values that we ascribe to the things in our lives... which is really more the case than being attached to the things... we will either feel deep loss or not if they are removed from us.

The things aren't the thing. It's the values that we cloak them with.

[Simulist]

It's an interesting discussion between both of you, Blue and 23.

Like everything else, I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

What if the world didn't exist? Or the universe? Or anything at all? Would "God" still exist?

Maybe. But would she know who she was? Or is the "physical touch, sight, sound, etc." helping her find that out?

[23]

It's an interesting discussion between both of you, Blue and 23.

Like everything else, I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

What if the world didn't exist? Or the universe? Or anything at all? Would "God" still exist?

Maybe. But would she know who she was? Or is the "physical touch, sight, sound, etc." helping her find that out?

I mentioned the notion of living lucidly in the previous post. It may bear a little more explaining.

Most of us know the experience of dreaming, when we sleep. Within the dream, we identify with the roles that we are playing. Until, that is, we wake up and realize that what we believed was real was only a dream.

Lucid dreaming, on the other hand, is the experience of observing your dream, and your role in it, without identifying with it.

The identification with your role, or absence thereof, is what determines the form of dreaming you're experiencing. Both with your eyes shut and open.

[Simulist]

One of my favorite books has been Lucid Living by Timothy Freke.

Small, easy to read (again), and perhaps the most approachable book on the topic.