Question on what happens now that housing rebate expired

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Question on what happens now that housing rebate expired

Postby chiggerbit » Sun May 09, 2010 1:47 pm

I'm curious what Wombat and the rest think will happen now that the housing rebate has expired for the second time. I don't expect that it will be renewed, so will this precipitate any kind of housing crash?

I know that when the the original rebate, which can amount to as much as $8,000, was renewed, it didn't perform as well as hoped during the extension period. Apparently it's believed that the original rebate "stole" housing sales from future sales, which would have included the extension period from November to April 30th, which I read to mean that it didn't really create that many new sales--those which wouldn't have been made without the rebate. I could be reading that wrong, though.

So, what's going to happen now? Did it work? Did it slow down foreclosures? Is it going to affect unemployment at all?
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Re: Question on what happens now that housing rebate expired

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sun May 09, 2010 2:17 pm

What's going to happen now: nobody knows.

Did it work? Yes, and that's very, very bad. The stated goal from the beginning has been to maintain high home values, since for most voting Americans, their entire net worth is basically their home. The problem is, that's not a very smart solution in the aftermath of a pricing bubble, and it's equivalent to that old Onion headline about shoveling money into a giant pit for burial. The money spent is 1) delaying the inevitable correction and 2) creating no actual value in the process. I am in no way, shape or form a "market fundamentalist" but I'm pretty satisfied that the Real Estate agents I interact with every day @ work are more intelligent and driven than anyone the Obama administration has working on this.

Did it slow down foreclosures? No, but the other programs did: HAMP, HAFA, etc. It's important to remember that "mortgage servicing" is a huge and diverse industry that's mostly owned by the same banks who are "taking a hit" -- but these delays and "modification programs" are essentially funneling more money to the banks than they would have otherwise received. It's another bailout using homeowners themselves as proxies, and it infuriates me. It's CIA-type cynical, and it's mostly taken as a good thing by the media -- to the point where bank executives can publicly "complain" about this and nobody busts up laughing. Nobody in the big banks wants this resolved, because at the end of the day, their balance books are filled with trillions in worthless paper. Ending the "mortgage modification programs" would...well, no, they'd be protected from taking a hit, then, too. Let's not forget who runs our government, eh?

Is it going to affect unemployment at all? Not at all, no. The next round of problems is ARM jumps -- all those adjustable rate mortgages are about to get a lot more expensive and it will be a definite tipping point for millions of people who are just barely making it now. The next next round of problems is commercial foreclosures, a crisis that's just getting started, basically a 1:1 analog of the residential crisis only with properties worth 10x more. So a lot of people are worried as fuck about that, and/or positioning themselves to bank out on it.

But overall, the $8000 credit didn't amount to much. It's presence or absence is way less important than the media makes it out to be.

I could go on about this all day, but that would be stupid.
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Re: Question on what happens now that housing rebate expired

Postby justdrew » Sun May 09, 2010 2:53 pm

well, all the people selling houses to first-time-buyer family members for $1 made out great.
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Re: Question on what happens now that housing rebate expired

Postby Cordelia » Sun May 09, 2010 4:14 pm

[quote="Wombaticus Rex"]....The next round of problems is ARM jumps -- all those adjustable rate mortgages are about to get a lot more expensive and it will be a definite tipping point for millions of people who are just barely making it now...quote]


I don't know anything about Doug Hornig, but I saved something he wrote almost a year ago:

"It's not until May of 2010 that the next wave really hits. From there to October of 2011, the resets will be coming fast and furious. That's 18 months of further turmoil in the housing market, and the beginning is still nearly a year away! (Although the months in between are likely to be no picnic, either.)" http://www.321gold.com/editorials/casey ... 52909.html

From Link:

Casey Files:
The Second Crash -
On the Way and Unstoppable
Doug Hornig
Editor, BIG GOLD

"May 29, 2009

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 started as a nice day in New York City. A lovely early fall day, with the temperature still a balmy 80° at 2:00 in the morning. By evening, though, the temperature had dropped twenty degrees, the clouds had rolled in, there was thunder and rain.

As with the weather, there were some hints of trouble here and there on Wall Street. But all in all, things could not have seemed better. Little did we know, the stormy end of 10/9/07 signaled a very large bubble that had just popped.

That was the day when the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit its historic peak. From there, it was all downhill - slowly but steadily at first, and then violently after last August - until the Dow bottomed (for now) on March 9 of this year. Over that span, the index lost 54% of its value.

It's been a crushing blow to just about everyone. But it's already being referred to as the crash. As if the unpleasantness were now all behind us. More likely, in the future it will be seen as, simply, the first crash.

Don't believe it? In a moment you will, when you see the scariest graph of the year.

But let's quickly recall what's already happened. During the late, great housing boom, interest rates were at microscopic levels, while bankers were encouraged to grant home loans on little more than a wink and a nudge. In order to inflate their balance sheets, those bankers resorted to all sorts of gimmicky, adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs), whose common feature was an interest rate that would eventually reset. That is, it would balloon somewhere down the road. And those most likely to come quickly to grief were the riskiest borrowers, who held loans known as "subprime."

"But not to worry," borrowers were told. "Betting on ever-rising home prices is the safest wager in the whole wide world. If you have problems with cash flow when the ARM resets, your house will be worth a lot more, so you can simply sell it and walk away with a nice chunk of change in your pocket." Uh-huh.

The bankers themselves were a little more concerned about the deterioration of their portfolios. They took out insurance in the form of credit default swaps (CDSs). These were a brand-new invention in world financial history, allowing mortgages to be sold and resold until they were leveraged 20 times over. They became the shakiest part of a huge global derivatives market, with a nominal value in the tens of trillions of dollars.

For a while, this Ponzi scheme even worked. But then, as they had to, the ARMs began resetting, and there were defaults. Then more of them. Because at the same time, the housing market was cooling off and the economy was stalling out. More and more people were trapped in a situation where they owed more on their home than they could sell it for. Many simply mailed their keys to the bank and moved on.

All of this wreaked havoc in the derivatives market. Sellers of these exotic packages could no longer establish what they were worth. Buyers couldn't determine a fair price and so stopped buying. As the ripples spread through the world financial system, trust disappeared and liquidity dried up.

Now consider that the base cause for all that dislocation was the subprime sector. And how big is that? Not very. Subprime mortgages account for only about 15% of all home loans. Their influence has been way out of proportion to their numbers, because of derivatives. Here's the good news: the subprime meltdown has about run its course. These loans were resetting en masse in 2007 and the first eight months of '08. Now they're pretty much done.

And the bad news? No one in the mainstream media seems to be asking what should be a pretty obvious question: What about loans other than subprime? Truth is, the banks didn't just trick up their subprime loans. ARMs were the order of the day - across the board.

Now, here's that frightening graph we referred to earlier."..........
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: Question on what happens now that housing rebate expired

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue May 11, 2010 9:50 am

Did it work? Yes, and that's very, very bad. The stated goal from the beginning has been to maintain high home values, since for most voting Americans, their entire net worth is basically their home.


In the long run you are better off without it. Its basically corporate welfare by stealth.
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