One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:53 pm

In US Drone Attack, Wedding Convoy Is Mistaken for an al Qaeda Convoy; At Least 15 Killed
By: Kevin Gosztola Thursday December 12, 2013 1:29 pm

UPDATE – 2:20 PM EST: It is now being reported by Reuters that a wedding convoy was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy in a drone attack that killed fifteen people.

Ten were killed in the initial attack, according to Yemen security officials. Five injured died at a hospital. Five more were injured. No details on what happened to the al Qaeda convoy that was supposed to be attacked but escaped a drone, which President Barack Obama has touted as being “very precise.”

If the CIA or Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) intended to hit an al Qaeda convoy but hit a wedding convoy instead—by mistake, where is the al Qaeda convoy now? Or, was a drone attack launched with bad intelligence that suggested the wedding convoy was the al Qaeda convoy?

Original Post

Yemeni news media report ten people were killed and more than twelve people in a wedding party were wounded in a drone attack by the United States.

The attack occurred near Radaa in the al-Bayda province of Yemen. It struck a car in a wedding convoy. Some of the killed were alleged to be members of al Qaeda.

Al-Masdar reported that two tribal sheikhs had been injured. [UPDATE - 2 PM EST - Associated Press reported Yemen officials said US drone hit convoy headed to wedding party, killed 13 people.]

However, Shuaib M. Almosawa, a Yemeni journalist, published a report that suggested a US drone had hit a location “harboring” twelve al Qaeda members in Iyal Ammer, “a militant hotbed area bordering Marib province. He spoke to an unnamed official, who does security for al-Bayda, and claimed two members of al Qaeda had already been identified as being killed: Nayef Ali Al-Ahraq, 37, and Muhammed Ali Al-Amiri, 30. All twelve targeted were killed or injured, according to this security official.

Statements of anonymous government officials are probably as valid as similar statements from anonymous government officials in the United States—so that should be kept in mind as the truth of what really happened is further reported.

One Yemeni lawyer, Haykal Bafana, made this point in reaction:


Also, Cori Crider of the human rights organization, Reprieve, Sarah Knuckey of Just Security, who has done extensive work tracking drone strikes, and Jack Serle of The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, which has kept track of the number of people killed by drone strikes in Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia, all reacted:



This reported drone attack happened just as Yemenis were growing outraged at aired footage of a deadly attack by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) on a Ministry of Defense hospital in Sanaa, the country’s capital.

It also took place three days after a US drone strike killed three in Yemen, who Yemeni locals said were “militants.” Shuaib M. Almosawa, a Yemeni journalist, reported that local officials “believed they were al Qaeda members but didn’t identify any.” The strike hit a car with the “suspects” in the “Qatn district of Hadramout, Yemen’s largest province where militants that government” say are “al Qaeda operatives have been battling with the local government in more than one front.”

The Associated Press also reported that unnamed security officials in Yemen had said “more than 40 people” had been “killed in sectarian clashes between Sunni Islamic militants and northern rebel forces belonging to a branch of Shiites in northern Yemen.” The fighting apparently erupted when “ultraconservative Salafis took over a Houthi stronghold in a strategic mountainous area near the border with Saudi Arabia.” This represented an “expansion of the battlefield” for these two groups.
There have been multiple US drone attacks that hit wedding parties in Pakistan. It has been much more rare to see US drones hit wedding parties in Yemen.

As Palestinian-American writer Ramzy Baroud recently described, Yemenis are in a “no win-win situation” under President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi, and, ahead of February elections, which may or may not be held, there are power struggles bringing greater instability to Yemen.

Yemen’s divisions are copious and growing, allowing the old regime to find ways to once more dominate the country. It could easily rebrand itself as the party capable of uniting all Yemenis and saving Yemen from complete economic collapse and disintegration.

Still empowered by the spirit of their revolution that underscored the resilience and discipline of one of the world’s poorest nations, Yemenis might find themselves back on the streets demanding freedom, democracy, transparency and more, demands of which nothing has been accomplished, nearly three years on.

In November, Baraa Shiban, a Yemeni who works for Reprieve, traveled to the US as part of a delegation to participate in CODEPINK’s 2013 Drone Summit and address members of Congress in a briefing. He told me the worst fear he had was that US drone strikes were having a “destabilizing effect on the Yemen government.”

“People [have] lost trust in the Yemeni government because of the fact that the Yemeni government cannot protect them from [the] strikes,” Shiban stated.

According to The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, anywhere from 45-54 drone strikes have taken place killing anywhere from 268-393 people. Anywhere from 21-58 civilians have been killed along with five children. Somewhere between 65-147 have been injured.

Shiban has traveled to nine provinces in Yemen where strikes have taken place. The “general view among people,” he said, is that “they didn’t imagine that drone strikes would start taking place inside villages, inside where people are living.” They thought before 2011 the strikes would occur in “far rural areas” where people were not living. For example, in Mareb, there was one night where three strikes took place in the same area.

In October, Human Rights Watch released a report that described six US attacks on alleged AQAP members, where civilians were killed. One of the family members of victims of a strike, Faisal bin Ali Jaber, who recently traveled to the US with Shiban, told HRW, “We Yemenis are the ones who pay the price of the ‘war on terror. We are caught between a drone on one side and Al-Qaeda on the other.”

Entesar Qadhi, a female Yemeni youth activist who was part of the 2011 uprising, told members of Congress in November that drones only seem to come strike her village after her village has kicked al Qaeda out “as if it is a sign that the al Qaeda people should get back to the village.”

“Drone strikes actually make al Qaeda people more popular because of the fact that they are striking inside of our villages, which makes the presence of Qaeda justified in our place,” she added.

There is a democratic movement led by young Yemenis trying to build a country that is more equitable, free and just, which the US government claims to support. A circle of terror, which both the US government and al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula are perpetuating through their actions, engulfs this movement making it exceptionally difficult for it to succeed.

No Comments Tags: drones, War on Terrorism, Yemen, AQAP
No Responses to “In US Drone Attack, Wedding Convoy Is Mistaken for an al Qaeda Convoy; At Least 15 Killed”
You must be logged in to post a comment.

Need an account? Register here.

« US Must Not Surrender in Big Brother Arms Race, Senator Argues in Hearing on NSA Surveillance

Stop the Trans-Pacific PartnershipCall Rep. Nancy Pelosi:
Tell Her to Oppose Fast Track for TPP


Kevin Gosztola on Twitter
AdvertisementFOLLOW THE DISSENTER
Subscribe to Dissenter's RSS Feed
» More Firedoglake feeds
Chelsea Manning
BLOG ROLL

FAIRNatasha LennardElectronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC)Susie CagleTranslation ExercisesDispatches from the UnderclassNational Whistleblowers CenterGovernment Accountability ProjectEmptywheelUnder the RadarACLUCenter for Constitutional RightsThe StreamCitizen RadioBoiling Frogs PostDemocracy Now!


http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/1 ... 10-people/
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:39 pm

Yemen parliament bans drone attacks
AFP – Sun, Dec 15, 2013

View Photo.Yemeni men walk past a mural depicting …

....Sanaa (AFP) - Yemen's parliament passed on Sunday a law banning drone strikes, Saba news agency said, days after one such attack reportedly hit a wedding motorcade and killed civilians.

"Lawmakers have voted to ban drone strikes in Yemen," Saba reported after a parliamentary meeting.

The US military operates all unmanned aircraft flying over Yemen in support of Sana’s campaign against Al-Qaeda, and has killed dozens of militants in an intensified campaign this year.

Saba said lawmakers Sunday stressed "the importance of protecting all citizens from any aggression" and "the importance of preserving the sovereignty of Yemeni air space."

On Thursday a drone attack in Rada, in the central province of Bayda, killed 17 people, mostly civilians, in a wedding motorcade, triggering protests in the impoverished Arabian peninsula country.

The Supreme Security Committee, headed by President Abdrabuh Mansur Hadi, issued a statement Friday insisting that the strike had targeted a car belonging to a leader of Al-Qaeda.

In the car "were top leaders who plotted several terrorist attacks against the armed forces, police, civilians and vital government installations," it said.

The statement did not give a death toll for the strike, nor refer to any civilian casualties or acknowledge that the attack was launched by a US drone.

Security sources and witnesses said two missiles were fired, and that mostly civilians had died.

Amnesty International said confusion over who was behind the raid "exposes a serious lack of accountability for scores of civilian deaths in the country."

"Even if it turns out that this was a case of killing based on mistaken identity or dodgy intelligence, whoever was responsible needs to own up to the error and come clean about what happened in this incident," said Philip Luther, Amnesty’s Middle East and North Africa director.

Relatives of the dead staged protests to denounce the killings and demanded an official apology as well as compensation.

Hundreds of people also blocked the road between Rada and Sanaa at Friday's funeral of 13 people but reopened a day later after reaching agreement on compensation with local military authorities.

"If the government fails to stop American planes from... bombing the people of Yemen, then it has no rule over us," tribal chief Ahmad al-Salmani told AFP on Saturday.

Two of the dead whose names were released -- Saleh al-Tays and Abdullah al-Tays -- had figured in the past on Yemeni government lists of wanted Al-Qaeda suspects.

But most of those killed were civilians of the Al-Tays and Al-Ameri - which are part of the large and heavily armed Qayfah tribe.

Yemen is the ancestral home of Osama bin Laden and the home base of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), which the United States views as the global jihadist network's most dangerous franchise.

http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-parliament- ... 32509.html
..
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby conniption » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:36 am

conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:01 am


Yemen is the ancestral home of Osama bin Laden and the home base of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), which the United States views as the global jihadist network's most dangerous franchise.


Which the United States of Cheeseburger knows is it's bread and butter.

Oh and Google just bought Boston Dynamics...so I guess that DroneBama Skynet is is really coming full circle
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12243
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby MayDay » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:08 pm

User avatar
MayDay
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:32 pm

"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12243
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby operator kos » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:26 pm

Know your drone!
Image
User avatar
operator kos
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby coffin_dodger » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:22 am

I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on.
Heather Linebaugh
theguardian.com, Sunday 29 December 2013

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/29/drones-us-military?CMP=twt_gu
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby fruhmenschen » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:32 pm

January 1 2014

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/the-fb ... o-fly-them
see link for full story

The FBI Doesn't Know How Many Drones It Has, Or Who's Allowed to Fly Them



In November 2012, Michael E. Horowitz, the inspector general at the Justice Department, sent each agency he oversees, including the FBI, DEA and ATF, a battery of questions about their use of drones. He wanted to verify how many unmanned vehicles were in inventory, how much they cost, and how often they were flown.

When notified that the inspector general had just begun its inquiry, the FBI general counsel’s office directed its staff to “not insert ourselves in this audit if not invited.” When the invitation did, in fact, arrive in the form of an audit questionnaire, recordkeeping discrepancies emerged as the FBI scrambled to prepare its responses. The latest documents on the bureau's drone program, released in response to MuckRock's FOIA requests as part of the Drone Census, suggest that the FBI doesn’t have a solid grasp on basic measures, like how often it’s used drones, or which agents are certified to fly them.

Foremost is apparent confusion within the FBI as to the scope of its drone deployments. The program’s primary legal adviser asserted in December 2012 that the Bureau “owns numerous UAS [unmanned aerial systems], which we routinely use primarily in CI [counterintelligence], CT [counterterrorism] and official corruption cases throughout the US.”
fruhmenschen
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:15 pm

Let's follow Bill Hicks' example of humane uses for weapons tech...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOMDMWzhO9k

Optimizing Immunization Systems: Delivering Vaccines with Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
Image
Congratulations to HST MEMP students Justin Lee, Adam Pan, Vyas Ramanan, Nikhil Vadhavkar, and Andrew Warren, working under Prof. George Barbastathis, have received a Round 8 Global Challenges Exploration Grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. The team will be using this $100,000 grant to develop unmanned aerial vehicles for developing world countries that can be deployed by health care workers via cell phones to swiftly deliver vaccines to hard-to-reach locations."

http://hst.mit.edu/spotlights/optimizin ... l-vehicles
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/global-h ... px#image=4
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:57 pm

Robot Swarm: A Flock Of Drones That Fly Autonomously
(VIDEO at this LINK http://www.video.scientificamerican.com ... 0572178001 )
by Bill Chappell
February 26, 2014 6:20 PM

Can drones, the small unmanned aircraft that are at the forefront of fields from warfare to commercial delivery systems, fly without human intervention? A team of Hungarian researchers answers yes, having created 10 drones that self-organize as they move through the air.
The team based its creation on birds such as pigeons, which fly in tight bunches while making adjustments and decisions. They fitted quadcopters — drones with four rotors — with GPS, processors and radios that allow them to navigate in formation or while following a leader.
Like "gregarious animals" such as birds and fish, the flock of drones follows rules of collective motion, says Tamas Vicsek, a physicist who teaches at Budapest's Eötvös Loránd University. "We came to the conclusion that one of the best ways to understand how animals move together is to build robots — flying robots."
And like those animals, the drone flock was tested as it flew around in open fields, not in a controlled indoor test environment, as Nature's Ed Yong reports.
The drones can negotiate tricky paths, such as when their route becomes tightly confined. When that happens, some of them hover in place to wait their turn. And it's all done without a central computer or controlling device, the researchers say. Instead, they use "flocking algorithms," says Gabor Vasarhelyi, who led the robotics phase of the project.
The Hungarian team plans to demonstrate its drone-swarm research later this year in Chicago, at the International Conference on Intelligent Robots and Systems. Until then, you can read its latest paper, titled "Outdoor flocking and formation flight with autonomous aerial robots." (You can see a video explaining the team's work at the bottom of this page; we had to put it there due to its persnickety display.)
"Drones are most commonly associated with war, terrorism, and cyberattacks, but drones can be used in more peaceful civil applications as well," Vasarhelyi says. "With a flock of drones, you can create a self-organized monitoring system from the air, or you can even deliver food or mail."
Here in the U.S., drones are expected to someday buzz around carrying out commercial tasks — but not before the Federal Aviation Administration issues new regulations governing such activity. As we've reported before, Amazon is developing a drone delivery system.
And last month, a Minnesota brewery was told to stop its tests that used drones to fly cartons of beer out to fishermen.
The flock of drones also reminded us of an amazing set of videos that were highlighted on PetaPixel last month, in which Rhode Island School of Design artist Dennis Hlynsky illustrated the flight paths of dozens of birds in urban settings.
Hlynsky used a video-editing technique that's similar to one increasingly used in sports TV to make the flying birds' images linger and create streaming patterns.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... tonomously


And...

49 quadrocopter in outdoor-formation-flight / Ars Electronica Futurelab / Linz, Austria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShGl5rQK3ew
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:09 pm

User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:36 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0n-eoSNRQ8

Taser Drone Capable of Unleashing 80,000 Volts Debuted at SXSW
Drone with 80 kilowatts of intense voltage waits for you to approve, detain or fire on visitors

Infowars.com
March 10, 2014

An Austin-based tech firm took SXSW by surprise this past weekend when it unveiled what it believes is the future of security technology – an unmanned aerial vehicle capable of deploying taser nodes and dishing out 80,000 electrifying volts.

Billed as a “personal security” drone, Chaotic Moon Studios’ CUPID UAV, an acronym for Chaotic Unmanned Personal Intercept Drone, proved Friday it is more than ready to indiscriminately fire on human targets deemed “threats.”

In a live, taped demo, a group of hipster techies gather around a small production eager to see one of their peers rendered incapacitated.

The test run goes off without a hitch. A poor guinea pig volunteer turns to run from the drone only to collapse onto a collection of mats after being stung with 80 kilowatts of intense voltage.

“The drone can be deployed when an alarm is triggered,” Chaotic Moons Studios stated in a press release. “It can find a subject and send live video to the owners phone and ask if you want to authorize the subject or detain them. If you detain them, it drops into fully autonomous mode to detain them until police arrive. If need be stunning them with 80,000 volts of electricity to render them incapacitated.”

The drones will “shock the world,” Chaotic Moon cynically jests, but the joke may soon be on all of us if and when law enforcement and military agencies begin taking an interest.

Drone shocks man via taser nodes / Screen grab via Youtube.com

Military drones around the world already have notorious reputations for circumscribing due process and extrajudicially murdering foreigners deemed “militant” threats, but we have also seen what happens when these drones make “mistakes.”

Last December, a US drone struck a Yemeni wedding party killing 17, five of whom were merely “suspected” of being affiliated with the Al Qaeda terror group.

And as the drone killings of suspected Al Qaeda affiliate Anwar Al-Alwaki and his 16-year-old Denver-born son Abdulrahman al-Awlaki illustrated, the US is more than willing to fire on American citizens.

For those who think a taser drone would be infinitely safer than one armed with a tomahawk cruise missile, consider there have been 547 taser-related deaths in the US since 2001, quite a few for something billed as “non-lethal.”

Chaotic Moon is also working on a drone with the ability to emit an EMP signal capable of knocking other pesky personal surveillance drones – such as those used by paparazzi – out of the sky, according to RT.

However, unlike the “emergency response” PETMAN, LS3 and Cheetah robots of DARPA lore, Chaotic Moon says it is a creative technology company that is absolutely not funded by the government.

“No definitely not. ha. you must have seen the drone,” they responded during a chat session on their site.

While the new CUPID drone sets a precedent as a novel security gadget, it is in reality merely a stepping stone to realizing a future of autonomous devices that will be able to independently seek out individuals, determine threat levels and mete out punishments accordingly – fully devoid of accountability.

http://www.infowars.com/taser-drone-cap ... d-at-sxsw/
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:22 am

paraglider drone

Image

China tests anti-smog drone aircraft
SHANGHAI Sat Mar 8, 2014 10:01pm EST

(Reuters) - China tested a domestically-produced drone aircraft designed to disperse smog on Saturday, official media reported, in an important step for the country's domestic aviation industry.

At the opening of an annual parliament meeting last week, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said that China will "declare war on pollution.

Almost all Chinese cities monitored for pollution last year failed to meet state standards. The environment has emerged as one of Beijing's key priorities amid growing public disquiet about urban smog, dwindling and polluted water supplies and the widespread industrial contamination of farmland.

The unmanned aerial vehicle, produced by a subsidiary of state-owned aviation giant Aviation Industry Corp of China (AVIC), disperses fog and smog by releasing a chemical catalyst, state news agency Xinhua reported on Sunday.

Compared to other methods for spreading catalysts, the use of drones will reduce risks and cut costs, Xinhua reported.

"Even in thick fog the UAV could fly an accurate route," Xinhua quoted engineer Guo Haijun as saying.

The "parafoil" plane, so called because it features a gliding parachute, can carry three times the cargo weight of common planes and could be used to conduct agricultural seeding, emergency rescue and other tasks, Xinhua previously quoted AVIC CEO Ma Yongsheng as saying.

State-owned AVIC is the unlisted parent company of Shenzhen-listed AVIC Aircraft Industry Corp of China. The test occurred at an airport in central China's Hubei province.

(Reporting by Gabriel Wildau; Editing by Michael Perry)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... 1G20140309
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Drones will cause an upheaval of society like we haven’t seen in 700 years
By Noah Smith March 11, 2014
Noah Smith is an assistant professor of finance at Stony Brook University. His blog is Noahpinion.

http://qz.com/185945/drones-are-about-t ... 700-years/


US drone intercepted in Crimean airspace - Russia's state corporation
Photo: EPA

An American scout-attack drone was intercepted in the Crimean sky, the Rostec state corporation reports. "Judging by side marking, the MQ-5B drone was part of the 66th US brigade of military intelligence with the main location in Bavaria," the report on the website of the corporation reads.

According to the report, at the beginning of March, the American brigade was relocated to the Ukrainian Kirovohrad, from where drones commit reconnaissance raids in the direction of Crimea and Russian border areas.

Earlier, they reportedly appeared in the Kherson region, in the area of the Crimean roadblock Chongar. "According to some data, the American reconnaissance brigade had 18 MQ-5B drones in its arsenal. This is the second time the American UAV is intercepted over Crimea," the report says.

"The drone was at the height of about 4 thousand meters and was practically invisible from the earth. It was possible to break the drone’s link with its American operators with the help of the EW (electronic warfare) complex Avtobaza. As a result, the device made an emergency landing and passed into the possession of the self-defense forces almost unbroken," the report says.

Voice of Russia, Interfax
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_1 ... tion-2994/
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests