is this board for the left-wing only?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:41 am

Percival wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:
Percival wrote:
vanlose kid wrote:
Percival wrote:It may not be for the left only but it seems, lately at least, if you express anything center or right center you will likely get piled on, name called, personally attacked and shouted down. I am not sure that means the left has more chops around here or that they simply can shout louder and are more willing to resort to ad hom, name calling and personally attacking.

Personally I dont think expressing concern for the problem Israel faces in dealing with the threat of extermination by Hamas is a right wing viewpoint, since IMO those who show support for the view of Hamas would have as their company, the KKK, fascists of any variety, white supremacists and various other antisemitic types, which is not even remotely left wing but about as far right of center as one can venture.

But I suppose its all a matter of perspective and how you spin it.

I have never in my life had anyone associate me or my views with the right, in fact most people refer to me as radically left and of the smelly hippy variety. :shrug:


Hamas is made up of Palestinians, i.e. by ancestry, semitic Jews of Palestine who converted to Islam. Even Israeli race-science admits this.

So to say that Hamas is anti-semitic is nonsense. Just as claiming that Jews belong to a distinct and separate race is nonsense.

To Hamas, "Jewish", as c2w rightly says, is a religious designation. Only among Zionists is Jewish a racial designation.

*
edit typos.


Ok I can agree with that, I myself consider it a religious designation but I am Jewish and more of a Buddhist than anything else so how does that wash in your opinion. I am not a Jew anymore because I dont practice Judaism?


Ah, that's the fun part, eh?

Because, depending on how you want to make the distinction you could be either or both.

See, you, non-practicing as you are, probably consider yourself racially Jewish, but then what "distinguishes" you racially as a Jew: your genes, are no different from those of your alleged "Hamas 'I will exterminate them all' informant". So, even though he's a practicing Muslim, he's Jewish, right?

Then again, if Jew is a religious designation then neither you nor he are Jews. Right?

*
edit typos.



To be completely honest with you I have never once considered it on racial terms for myself personally although the issue has come up in conversation that I am Jewish because my mother is Jewish, however, for me I simply consider myself culturally Jewish, that is to say that I enjoy and recognize all the trappings of Jewish culture, I love Jewish food and folk music, Jewish folk art etc and things of that nature but I dont practice the religion much anymore per se.

Yes, it is indeed tricky.

For the record I do personally recognize and accept the Palestinian people as my own and I have no problem with them at all, I am saddened that there is so much hate between us and our brothers in the Gaza, it is a hate that has passed from generation to generation and I wish there was a way to put an end to it BUT please understand that one of the reasons for this is continued threats against Jews by organizations like Hamas, who have vowed no peace until every Jew is removed from the land.


I'd say it works both ways. Extermination and acceptance wise. There are Israelis who have made the same vows.

If the Jewish right of return is to be taken seriously then Palestinians have that right – in Israel.

Also, expelling them and theft of their land and livelihood is a crime and should be recognized as such and reparations and/or repatriation steps should be taken.

*

By the way, Samaritans have Israeli citizenship. Are they Jews?

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby operator kos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:31 am

JackRiddler wrote:I gotta remember that! Where is it from?


The millionaires and suckers line is a pretty common quip, the rest is my own elaboration.
User avatar
operator kos
 
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:44 am

Percival wrote:...one thing that cannot change is the blockade, without it there would just be too many opportunities for Hamas militants to arm themselves and possibly even get their hands on a dirty bomb or even a nuke and do some real damage in the region, possibly making good on their promise of extermination.


Percival wrote:Of course they [Hamas] are growing in numbers and plan to deliver on their promise of extermination, things are not getting better they are getting worse.


Percival wrote:BUT none of this addresses the larger issue of how Israel is supposed to deal with the Hamas threat to exterminate ever Jew in the region.


Percival wrote:Assuming that they regularly and shell Israel neighborhoods, marketplaces, malls and send suicide bombers on to buses, killing untold numbers of innocent people over the last decade, I would say the smart bet is to take their word for it when they say their desire is no peace until every Jew is exterminated from the region.


Percival wrote:You are not going to get far with me because I have lived in the region and I worked as a journalist and I have spoken to Hamas militants myself and been told as much AND heard them admit to me that their ultimate goal is to EXTERMINATE EVERY JEW IN THE REGION, if these are the sort of people you wish to defend...well ok, but I will not
.

Goebbels wrote:If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”


Clearly, as evidenced by the tactics of its apologists, the truth is not only the greatest enemy of the nazi state, but the zionist state as well. Yet another thing they have in common, besides the aggressive and violent pursuit of lebensraum ("settlement expansion") to serve the Master Race/Chosen People, the indiscriminate killing of non-Chosen untermenschen (aka "vermin"), the obsession with Blood and Soil, the glorification of violence and race-loyalty, and the militarization of society, all of which are consistently and openly advocated by the highest military, political and religious authorities in the zionist state.

"...if these are the sort of people you wish to defend...well ok, but I will not."
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby Percival » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:53 am

AlicetheKurious wrote:
Percival wrote:...one thing that cannot change is the blockade, without it there would just be too many opportunities for Hamas militants to arm themselves and possibly even get their hands on a dirty bomb or even a nuke and do some real damage in the region, possibly making good on their promise of extermination.


Percival wrote:Of course they [Hamas] are growing in numbers and plan to deliver on their promise of extermination, things are not getting better they are getting worse.


Percival wrote:BUT none of this addresses the larger issue of how Israel is supposed to deal with the Hamas threat to exterminate ever Jew in the region.


Percival wrote:Assuming that they regularly and shell Israel neighborhoods, marketplaces, malls and send suicide bombers on to buses, killing untold numbers of innocent people over the last decade, I would say the smart bet is to take their word for it when they say their desire is no peace until every Jew is exterminated from the region.


Percival wrote:You are not going to get far with me because I have lived in the region and I worked as a journalist and I have spoken to Hamas militants myself and been told as much AND heard them admit to me that their ultimate goal is to EXTERMINATE EVERY JEW IN THE REGION, if these are the sort of people you wish to defend...well ok, but I will not
.

Goebbels wrote:If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”


Clearly, as evidenced by the tactics of its apologists, the truth is not only the greatest enemy of the nazi state, but the zionist state as well. Yet another thing they have in common, besides the aggressive and violent pursuit of lebensraum ("settlement expansion") to serve the Master Race/Chosen People, the indiscriminate killing of non-Chosen untermenschen (aka "vermin"), the obsession with Blood and Soil, the glorification of violence and race-loyalty, and the militarization of society, all of which are consistently and openly advocated by the highest military, political and religious authorities in the zionist state.

"...if these are the sort of people you wish to defend...well ok, but I will not."



THAT imo is what hate sounds like folks, this person has just compared Jewish people to Nazis without hesitation or even consideration just how hurtful such a comparison is not to mention how far from reality it is.


On the other hand I have heard from Hamas militants MYSELF as a staff member of Israeli media publications assigned to cover the Gaza when Hamas took control of it in 2007, that their ULTIMATE goal is to exterminate every Jew from the region and that there would be no peace until then. What would motivate a Hamas members from making such a statement to a Jewish member of the media as myself?

I am not making this up Alice they have stated this as a desire and no matter how much you wish to deny it I wont sit back and allow you to do so without challenge. If you can prove to me otherwise, that I was hearing things at the time, then I will reconsider my position but I know who I was speaking to and I know what they said as part of their overall mission statement and this was as recent as 2007 shortly after the elections that brought Hamas to political power in the Gaza.
He left in a huff and he is back even huffier.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby semper occultus » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:29 am

vanlose kid wrote: Only among Zionists is Jewish a racial designation.


toxic subject area I tend to steer clear of but wouldn't Hitler be surprised to hear this ?

Eustace Mullins : "The Biological Jew" ?
User avatar
semper occultus
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm
Location: London,England
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby Sounder » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:13 am

no, but I do regret how the intertubes seems to reduce folks opinions to declarations of tribal affiliations.

Creating dialogue may be difficult but echo chambers (are boring and) are fascism in the making. It may shock some here but there are some conservative folk that are not at all fascistic in attitude, just as there are liberals that are quite fascistic.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby wintler2 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:16 am

Percival wrote:.. If you can prove to me otherwise, that I was hearing things at the time, then I will reconsider my position but I know who I was speaking to and I know what they said as part of their overall mission statement and this was as recent as 2007 shortly after the elections that brought Hamas to political power in the Gaza.


a) it is a dishonest demand that you make of AtK, what you ask is for impossible proof, yet you offer none yourself.
b) That individual you say you heard of course represents all Palestinians and thus all Palestinians deserve to be persecuted until.. what? They are all exterminated? Is that your mission statement?
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:20 am

Sounder wrote:no, but I do regret how the intertubes seems to reduce folks opinions to declarations of tribal affiliations.

Creating dialogue may be difficult but echo chambers (are boring and) are fascism in the making. It may shock some here but there are some conservative folk that are not at all fascistic in attitude, just as there are liberals that are quite fascistic.


:thumbsup001:
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:51 am

Percival wrote:Clearly, as evidenced by the tactics of its apologists, the truth is not only the greatest enemy of the nazi state, but the zionist state as well. Yet another thing they have in common, besides the aggressive and violent pursuit of lebensraum ("settlement expansion") to serve the Master Race/Chosen People, the indiscriminate killing of non-Chosen untermenschen (aka "vermin"), the obsession with Blood and Soil, the glorification of violence and race-loyalty, and the militarization of society, all of which are consistently and openly advocated by the highest military, political and religious authorities in the zionist state.

"...if these are the sort of people you wish to defend...well ok, but I will not."



THAT imo is what hate sounds like folks, this person has just compared Jewish people to Nazis without hesitation or even consideration just how hurtful such a comparison is not to mention how far from reality it is.


What part of "zionist state" did you not understand? Is the zionist state the same as "the Jewish people"? And if you can't even understand simple words that are in black and white right here on this very page, how can you be trusted when you make outrageous, defamatory and unverifiable claims like this:

Percival wrote:On the other hand I have heard from Hamas militants MYSELF as a staff member of Israeli media publications assigned to cover the Gaza when Hamas took control of it in 2007, that their ULTIMATE goal is to exterminate every Jew from the region and that there would be no peace until then. What would motivate a Hamas members from making such a statement to a Jewish member of the media as myself?



I am not making this up Alice they have stated this as a desire and no matter how much you wish to deny it I wont sit back and allow you to do so without challenge. If you can prove to me otherwise, that I was hearing things at the time, then I will reconsider my position but I know who I was speaking to and I know what they said as part of their overall mission statement and this was as recent as 2007 shortly after the elections that brought Hamas to political power in the Gaza.


Well, let me tell you something, Percival. Say someone tells you that they personally heard it from many Israelis that their "ultimate goal" is the financial, physical and moral enslavement of all gentiles and to rule the world. Would you believe them? Why or why not? What if they insisted that this in fact happened and challenged you to PROVE to them otherwise?

What if this was the sole basis of their argument that because of these supposed confessions, Jews should be denied their human and legal rights?

How would you describe such a person? Would you be so aggrieved that others showered contempt and disgust on them? Would you call for people to be "civil" in debating this person's "concern" for gentiles, based on their sick fabrication?

You're a slippery one, Percival, but clearly not slippery enough. How can we have a "civil" discussion if you keep trying to divert attention from the morally repugnant and mendacious logic that underlies your racist and fascist talking points?
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
User avatar
AlicetheKurious
 
Posts: 5348
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Egypt
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:11 am

I'm incredibly wary of politics these days, perhaps weary as well.

What disturbs me is observing my own patterns -- I'm usually reacting more to emotional triggers ("I cannot fucking believe this idiot just said that") and I usually respond by improvising a series of mentally available "data points" to act like I'm proving something I actually thought about.

When I examine situations like this, I invariably find that what I'm trying to prove is an inherited assumption I've never actually researched or pursued with any curiosity.

In trying to fast from political conversations, I find it's emotional triggers again that try to re-engage me. Based on first hand experience and second hand conjecture, it's all lizard brain monkey mouth noise.

Even here where I greatly respect dozens of the minds involved on this forum we have a very difficult time keeping our political conversations grounded in reality, data, obvious and simple numbers. I know there's "reasons to get mad." There's also reasons to kill yourself, and for that matter, other people. Humans are sense-making machines, we can make reasons for anything and usually do.

Numbers are enough. Let the hormone signals and blood parasite and lunar tug of your lizard brain allllll just wash over your diamond mind. We are all better than this. I have yet to find a label that fits any of you MFers.

(I am grateful for a job that puts me squarely in the tea party / libertarian / mormon / Assembly of God / Glenn Beck end of the American economy every day and forces me to interact politely with all of them. Been dojo level practice for all this.)
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10616
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby norton ash » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:15 pm

Right on, Wombat. Namaste.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4007
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby Percival » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:45 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
Percival wrote:Clearly, as evidenced by the tactics of its apologists, the truth is not only the greatest enemy of the nazi state, but the zionist state as well. Yet another thing they have in common, besides the aggressive and violent pursuit of lebensraum ("settlement expansion") to serve the Master Race/Chosen People, the indiscriminate killing of non-Chosen untermenschen (aka "vermin"), the obsession with Blood and Soil, the glorification of violence and race-loyalty, and the militarization of society, all of which are consistently and openly advocated by the highest military, political and religious authorities in the zionist state.

"...if these are the sort of people you wish to defend...well ok, but I will not."



THAT imo is what hate sounds like folks, this person has just compared Jewish people to Nazis without hesitation or even consideration just how hurtful such a comparison is not to mention how far from reality it is.


What part of "zionist state" did you not understand? Is the zionist state the same as "the Jewish people"? And if you can't even understand simple words that are in black and white right here on this very page, how can you be trusted when you make outrageous, defamatory and unverifiable claims like this:

Percival wrote:On the other hand I have heard from Hamas militants MYSELF as a staff member of Israeli media publications assigned to cover the Gaza when Hamas took control of it in 2007, that their ULTIMATE goal is to exterminate every Jew from the region and that there would be no peace until then. What would motivate a Hamas members from making such a statement to a Jewish member of the media as myself?



I am not making this up Alice they have stated this as a desire and no matter how much you wish to deny it I wont sit back and allow you to do so without challenge. If you can prove to me otherwise, that I was hearing things at the time, then I will reconsider my position but I know who I was speaking to and I know what they said as part of their overall mission statement and this was as recent as 2007 shortly after the elections that brought Hamas to political power in the Gaza.


Well, let me tell you something, Percival. Say someone tells you that they personally heard it from many Israelis that their "ultimate goal" is the financial, physical and moral enslavement of all gentiles and to rule the world. Would you believe them? Why or why not? What if they insisted that this in fact happened and challenged you to PROVE to them otherwise?

What if this was the sole basis of their argument that because of these supposed confessions, Jews should be denied their human and legal rights?

How would you describe such a person? Would you be so aggrieved that others showered contempt and disgust on them? Would you call for people to be "civil" in debating this person's "concern" for gentiles, based on their sick fabrication?

You're a slippery one, Percival, but clearly not slippery enough. How can we have a "civil" discussion if you keep trying to divert attention from the morally repugnant and mendacious logic that underlies your racist and fascist talking points?


If there is such a Jewish group I want in on it and I want my cut.


Ok lets get serious now, how can you, with a straight face call me (or Jews or Zionists or whatever code word you use to hide your own hatred and animosity) a racist and fascist when you are seemingly siding with a group like Hamas. Now who do you think has the same mission statement as Hamas? Wouldnt that be:

The KKK

The White Supremacists

Neo Nazis

Skinheads

Any variety of fascist hate group here.


Those are the people aspire to the same objectives as groups like Hamas, which I am decidedly AGAINST. So how can I be racist and fascist when I am against those who sing those songs, like Hamas and the hate groups listed above, all of whom, as part of their mission statement, want to kill Jews?
He left in a huff and he is back even huffier.
User avatar
Percival
 
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby 82_28 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:55 pm

I think everybody wants to kill everybody -- at least that's the script. I follow no doctrine. I don't do nationalism. Yay! I'm perfect! Except I'm not. Nobody is. There is no room for exceptionalism. However exceptionalism seems to define the room we're in as a common brother and sisterhood if we only fucking cared for one another. First do no harm. Never side with anybody who tells you to hate another for this or that. Unless they're fucking fascists -- use intuition -- look into their eyes. Always be kind to all forms of life and humanity. Herein we will glean the details to our predicament.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby crikkett » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:58 pm

Percival wrote:On the other hand I have heard from Hamas militants MYSELF as a staff member of Israeli media publications assigned to cover the Gaza when Hamas took control of it in 2007, that their ULTIMATE goal is to exterminate every Jew from the region and that there would be no peace until then. What would motivate a Hamas members from making such a statement to a Jewish member of the media as myself?

I am not making this up Alice they have stated this as a desire and no matter how much you wish to deny it I wont sit back and allow you to do so without challenge. If you can prove to me otherwise, that I was hearing things at the time, then I will reconsider my position but I know who I was speaking to and I know what they said as part of their overall mission statement and this was as recent as 2007 shortly after the elections that brought Hamas to political power in the Gaza.


Oh thank you for finally explaining where you get that whole 'Exterminate!' line of thinking from.

So was it one militant you spoke to, or a room of them? Were these militants also Hamas officials or were they grunts? Were you told this only once, or was it repeated over a period of time? What's the rest of their mission statement?

PS Did the militants scare you when they told you they wanted to exterminate Jews? Did you write about it? And are there any reports of those weekly shipments of aid that you say Hamas is refusing that you can point to?
crikkett
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:03 pm
Blog: View Blog (5)

Re: is this board for the left-wing only?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:28 pm

kool maudit wrote:recent events leave me wondering whether the bulk of RIers feel traditionalist or right-leaning viewpoints should be barred from the board?


They let me post here. Of course my views are left wing, but still widely considered objectionable.

alwyn wrote:i thought it was for thinking people....which, now that you mention it, may leave much of the right wing out....


I think it was JS MIll, a Liberal, who said something or other about how Conservatives are lazy. Could've been Churchill. No, he said they were heartless. Maybe it was the Great MacGonagall. Someone like that anyway.

Jeff wrote:No, it's not left-wing only, though I suppose it's predominently so.


Well, preponderately, anyway.

barracuda wrote:It's easy to be angry about the injustice in Palestine. It's a lot more difficult to cogently discuss solutions, particularly if part of the solution must be the tacit ongoing existence of Israel as a nation at all. If you don't think Israel can or should exist as a nation, then you should have the guts to say so, explain why, and accept the consequences of that belief.

It's all the beating around the bush that causes the bullshit.


Does that mean you think people should have the courage to say they don't support the existence of Israel or that people do support it and shouldn't?

Just to beat directly into the bush, Israel clearly shouldn't exist. Generally I believe in whatever will produce greatest happiness for the greatest number, but in this case, regardless of what might be utilitarian, Israel shouldn't be allowed to profit from the crimes it has commited. It's largely Britain's fault, too, although there was no reason at the time to believe things would end up quite like this. If Clement Attlee, generally quit a good Prime Minister, had had the courage to massacre those holocaust survivors as they were sailing into infamy it would have saved a lot of lives in the long run. In stead they chickened out, under American pressure, and let the Jews in. Even the Balfour declaration, invalid as Britain never acquired Palestine and therefore couldn't give it as a Jewish Homeland (it was a League of Nations Mandate to be administered by Britain on behalf of the natives), declared that the natives couldn't be disadvantaged by the advent of the Jewish Zionists. The Jews, recently tutored by the Nazis and the Partisans, immediately began a campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing culminating in the Naqba which was one of the largest illegal land seizures in history.Ever since Israel has been pursuing the same policies, now in the occupied territories, and has run itself as a racialist state with a terrible human rights record domestically against both citizens and Arabs and a history of foreign aggression. A country more deserving of abolition I'm not aware of. No solution will be forthcoming while the Israelis suckle at the American teat, but an ideal solution, indeed and solution leading to a long term peace, must involve the dismantlement of the settlements, the return of all stolen lands to its original holders and a single state solution Palestine is united and political power shared along democratic lines with no ethnic or racial religious discrimination. Could be bad for the Jews, but the adoption of an equitable solution would stand them better than fighting to the death. Besides, sow the wind reap the wirlwind.

semper occultus wrote:toxic subject area I tend to steer clear of but wouldn't Hitler be surprised to hear this ?


Dead, isn't he? Caught a nasty chill at the South Pole back in '58.

Searcher08 wrote:I like Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura (and Laura Ingalls Wilder and Mary Poppins actually) and am a Salvador Allende cheering cybernetic libertarian who believes in a National Health Service, health choice and personal responsibility.


I'm a UKIP voting member of the Socialist Workers Party who believes in low taxes, Jesus and the hollow earth. Health choice, though, is far to radical a belief for me. Impractical. Inefficient. Leads to inequitable distribution of resources.

Percival wrote:For the record I do personally recognize and accept the Palestinian people as my own and I have no problem with them at all, I am saddened that there is so much hate between us and our brothers in the Gaza, it is a hate that has passed from generation to generation and I wish there was a way to put an end to it BUT please understand that one of the reasons for this is continued threats against Jews by organizations like Hamas, who have vowed no peace until every Jew is removed from the land.


Hamas are politicians, their vows aren't worth the blood they're written in. Certainly Israel have a somewhat worse record when it comes to honouring cease fires, peace agreements and the like. Mind you, Israel as the superior military power bares ultimate responsbility for peaceful behavior and for their actual overreactions, and overactions. Lucky for hamas, they might get a few less votes if the Israelis were less, to beat directly into the bush, evil and abominable.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
User avatar
Stephen Morgan
 
Posts: 3735
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:37 am
Location: England
Blog: View Blog (9)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests