What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

You-foes are:

Nuts and bolts craft from another world.
7
20%
Nuts and bolts craft from inside the hollow earth, or antarctic Nazis.
2
6%
Nuts and bolts military prototypes or modified helicopters.
4
11%
Time machines, possibly from humanity in the future.
1
3%
Vimanas, spirit-craft.
2
6%
Screen memories for MK experiments and SRA.
2
6%
Elves or other blue-and-orange morality non/semi-corporeal beings.
10
29%
Demons. Evil non-corporeal beings.
2
6%
Earth lights, geomagnetic doo-dahs, ball lighting, plasma vortexes, etc..
2
6%
Created by the media and intelligence services as a disinfo psy-op.
3
9%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:12 pm

barracuda wrote:I have no real problem with this, with a few exceptions, mostly because I cannot comprehend the existence of a universe in which we are the sole conscious evloved biological life-form. Others are around, but are they here? The Drake equation can be solved a number of ways, some of which point to abundant life, others, not so much. But my main issue here is why the nuts and bolts ships we encounter are clearly made by and for a race that is very similar to ours in appearance and abilities. They almost never manifest as tendrilised root ball creatures or amoebic psudeopodular exo-clams, or even gaseous Jovian butt-nuggets. It's always people. They may be strange looking people with big heads and fish eyes, or elvish people with dwarfish appendages, or tall blondes wirhout noses, but they are people nonetheless. Two arms, twp legs, binocular vision, fingers, bipedal, clothing etc. And that says "earth origin" to me, by default.


Why would or should they be different? The building blocks of life are for the most part universal (several post here recently on this). If this be true, then the conditions on how these various compounds come together to make "life", and how that life might come to travel a path to sentience might be quite narrow -and- include a certain narrowness as to shape and forms. A bit of just the right sun/atmosphere/nutrients and life finds a way to flourish. A bit like Goldilocks and "just right". Maybe just right is extremely rare, but when we talk of the quantities involved, I suspect it quite common, regardless of the vast (to us) distances in between. The rule rather than the exception, IMO.

BTW -Jovian butt nuggets -are- here. And yes, I mean HERE.

You know who you are...
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
User avatar
Cosmic Cowbell
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Simulist » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:34 pm

Cosmic Cowbell wrote:BTW -Jovian butt nuggets -are- here. And yes, I mean HERE.

You know who you are...

There are no "Jovian butt nuggets" here (and, yes, I mean "here") — not even you — just (I suspect) people with honest differences of opinion.

Does anyone here — including you or me — have "the answer" though?

Probably not.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:44 pm

Simulist wrote:
Cosmic Cowbell wrote:BTW -Jovian butt nuggets -are- here. And yes, I mean HERE.

You know who you are...

There are no "Jovian butt nuggets" here (and, yes, I mean "here") — not even you — just (I suspect) people with honest differences of opinion.

Does anyone here — including you or me — have "the answer" though?

Probably not.


Agreed. I was only joking about the Butt Nuggs, (they're not actually from Jupiter but rather are of the homegrown variety). I usually end up toasting them over in the lounge. Yes, I said it. "Toasted Butt Nuggets".

:mrgreen:
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
User avatar
Cosmic Cowbell
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Simulist » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:54 pm

Cosmic Cowbell wrote:
Simulist wrote:
Cosmic Cowbell wrote:BTW -Jovian butt nuggets -are- here. And yes, I mean HERE.

You know who you are...

There are no "Jovian butt nuggets" here (and, yes, I mean "here") — not even you — just (I suspect) people with honest differences of opinion.

Does anyone here — including you or me — have "the answer" though?

Probably not.


Agreed. I was only joking about the Butt Nuggs, (they're not actually from Jupiter but rather are of the homegrown variety). I usually end up toasting them over in the lounge. Yes, I said it. "Toasted Butt Nuggets".

:mrgreen:

If you have something substantive to say, then please speak it plainly.

If you have nothing substantive to say — which is almost certain — then please either continue on with your innuendo, or say nothing further.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:59 pm

After reading the exchange between CC & Sim, I can see why we are so enslaved by our own predilections and why other sentient creatures might enjoy tearing off our flesh while eating us alive, just as we do to plants. They are probably just as oblivious to our anguish during the process as we are to hearing the protests of the plants and animals, as we tear of their flesh, commenting on how delicious it may be while we devour them and their born and unborn offspring.

Why else would trees produce so may fruits and plants so many seeds, but if not for a reaction to our and other creatures desire to eat them?

Why would we expect to be treated any differently by creatures suspected to be so far beyond our comprehension?

I didn't vote. I have no idea at all what "UFOs" might be, though I suspect our own race must be responsible for some of these 'objects' and I suspect some are extraterrestrial and some inter-dimensional, if not both of these at once. Whether they are piloted or controlled by sentient creatures, or a product of our or their thought-forms is anyone without need-to-know above top-secret clearance guess.

Back in the 50s I did see something moving from east to west in the night sky far to fast to be any kind of known aircraft. It was not a 'shooting star', but lit like a star.

The only really remarkable thing that I have seen that was definitely extra-terrestrial, (at least I believe it was ET), occurred maybe 12 to 14 years ago. A meteor with transparent green flames ala Flash Gordon engulfing and trailing it was traveling parallel to the ground at about what seemed to be an elevation of only a few hundred feet. It was traveling north-westward and parallel to my car. I watched this until it disappeared over the horizon. It seemed so very close and not high at all and fairly large.

What was most amazing to me, apart from its emerald-green flames, was that I could see its 'cratered' or pocked surface through the flames. I called the local television station to report this, but never heard a word about it from any other source.

Enjoy your fresh-picked leaf lettuce and fruit salad. Did you even ask them for their permission? Or thank them for their sacrifice?

We should expect to be treated no differently by sentient alien creatures we comprehend less than we do of plants, should they come knocking at your door.
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Simulist » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:17 pm

The shamans in Equador (and presumably many other places on earth, too) claim to learn from the psychedelic plants they ingest. Not only do these plants contain a very penetrating and multifaceted consciousness, but this consciousness also makes itself available to teach them through their visions.

One of the most important books I've ever read on this subject was Graham Hancock's book, Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind. There are probably many other great books on this, too, but my knowledge on this subject is very limited.

Do you have others that you'd recommend, Iamwhomiam?

EDIT: I should probably also mention Jim Dekorne's Psychedelic Shamanism, which is also extremely thought-provoking.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Sim,

If some here will forgive the first reference, a few that come to mind would be Tompkins' The Secret Life of Plants an Weil's The Natural Mind and From Chocolate to Morphine, though I believe the books you mention are more recent.

I'm sorry, but I've forgotten more I've read regarding this subject. Perhaps I shall find time to read those you've mentioned.

http://www.drweil.com/
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby KeenInsight » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:54 pm

I'll post links here for other interesting documentaries... most of which I assume most have seen.





Top UFO Documentary - Hard Evidence (Black Box, Commercial Airline, and Tower Control recordings) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sJxkV4tQA

(Classic) Unsolved Mysteries - The UFO Files - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfmuIsQsJug

The Case for NASA UFOs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72P5OtrHNyk

Out of the Blue - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOwj-BPtPLs
User avatar
KeenInsight
 
Posts: 663
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:17 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby barracuda » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:31 pm

Cosmic Cowbell wrote:Why would or should they be different? The building blocks of life are for the most part universal (several post here recently on this). If this be true, then the conditions on how these various compounds come together to make "life", and how that life might come to travel a path to sentience might be quite narrow -and- include a certain narrowness as to shape and forms. A bit of just the right sun/atmosphere/nutrients and life finds a way to flourish. A bit like Goldilocks and "just right". Maybe just right is extremely rare, but when we talk of the quantities involved, I suspect it quite common, regardless of the vast (to us) distances in between. The rule rather than the exception, IMO.


There are ten million species on Earth, of which some one or two dozen are roughly analgous to homo. The idea that bipedal binocular bilateral symmetry resembling humans represents some type of Goldilocks configuration is essentially the same sort of anthropocentricism you decried earlier in the thread. It occurs to me that we really have only the faintest notions of the nature of the consciousness of other advanced animals on our home planet, certainly not enough knowledge to make the jump from there to the optimal configuration for sentient outcomes on untold worlds across the galaxy. And yet I think it is safe to say that they would probably not be descended from a chance unfolding of a series of ape-like creatures, if only because it was only by the skinniest of fortune that we descended from them either, and because of the sheer statistical unlikelyhood that mammallian type life forms should arise outside of the conditions set forth on very select, very special sets of mostly forested environments on this world. It is worth keeping in mind that worms as a group are represented on this planet by a number which comprises more than half the mass of all animals on Earth. As a class, mammals on Earth represent only 5400 out of the ten million species present here. That is not a particularly safe pinnacle in terms of survivability across the galactic board.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Simulist » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:15 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Sim,

If some here will forgive the first reference, a few that come to mind would be Tompkins' The Secret Life of Plants an Weil's The Natural Mind and From Chocolate to Morphine, though I believe the books you mention are more recent.

I'm sorry, but I've forgotten more I've read regarding this subject. Perhaps I shall find time to read those you've mentioned.

http://www.drweil.com/

Thanks, Iamwhomiam. The Secret Life of Plants sounds like an especially fascinating book from the perspective of plant sentience. Both you and Norton Ash have mentioned "polling the plants" and, as odd as the idea might at first sound, there may be some basis for doing just that, albeit in ways that are considered highly unconventional here in America.

This also relates directly to the topic of this discussion: UFOs.

Earlier I mentioned Graham Hancock's excellent book, Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind. He has suggested that psychedelic plants may be the key to understanding our true human origins — and that our origins are not of this earth.

In my own experiences as a child with beings who looked remarkably similar to what are commonly referred to today as "UFO occupants," I was told by one of them that what I will need to know has been "written on your cells."

You can imagine then how surprised I was when I read the following passages about how psychedelic plants may be able to unlock information, which resides within human DNA:

Graham Hancock wrote:The teachers within

It is bizarre not only that Crick's hypothesis reflects the ayahuasca-inspired mythology of the Yagua of the Amazon, as we saw at the beginning of this chapter, but also that a number of Westerners who did not know one another or compare notes, and who experimented with ayahuasca or with pure DMT at different times, nevertheless arrived separately at what were essentially very similar visions involving DNA. In Chapter Eighteen we saw that several of the volunteers in Rick Strassman's DMT project at the University of New Mexico experienced intense visions featuring "threads of DNA" and "spirals of DNA." In Chapter Nineteen the reader will find the case of the American biologist who received detailed images of specific DNA sequences under the influence of ayahuasca, and in Chapter Three I reported my own ayahuasca visions of "snakes that wind around each other like the DNA double helix."

Indeed, this theme seems to be everywhere abundant amongst people who have encountered hallucinogens, like DMT, LSD, psilocybin, and ayahuasca, which have a tryptamine core. In 1961, the American anthropologist Michael Herner was one of the first Westerners to participate fully in an indigenous ayahuasca ceremony in the Amazon — in his case in the Conibo Indian village beside a remote lake off a tributary of the Rio Ucayali. After drinking a large dose of the bitter hallucinogenic brew, he received a spectacular vision in which he saw dragon-like creatures that came to earth fleeing something, perhaps an enemy, "out in space" after a journey that had lasted for "eons":

"The creatures showed me how they had created life on the planet in order to hide within the multitudinous forms and thus disguise their presence. Before me, the magnificence of plant an animal creation and speciation — hundreds of millions of years of activity — took place on a scale and with a vividness impossible to imagine. I learned that the dragon-like creatures were thus inside all forms of life, including man. They were the true masters of humanity and the entire planet, they told me. We humans were but the receptacles and servants of these creatures. For this reason they could speak to me from within myself. In retrospect one could say they were almost like DNA, although at that time, in 1961, I knew nothing of DNA."


Much later, in the 1990's, Jeremy Narby's experiences of ayahuasca evoked a similar chain of thought. During his first session with the brew he reports that he suddenly found himself…

"…surrounded by two gigantic boa-constrictors that seemed fifty feet long. I was terrified. These enormous snakes are there, my eyes are closed and I see a spectacular world of brilliant lights, and in the middle of these hazy thoughts, the snakes start talking to me without words. They explain that I am just a human being."

Despite superficial differences, it seems to me that Narby and Harner's ayahuasca experiences have much in common with Crick's LSD experience, and his subsequent elaboration of the directed panspermia theory. In essence, what all three seem to envisage is a control system for the human race that is not of this earth, that is serpent-like in form, that now dwells inside us, and that is superior to all of us. Crick calls it the double helix, coils it up inside bacteria, and has it sent here from across the galaxy on alien spaceships. For Harner it is creatures that he sees as dragons that have likewise come to earth from space after a journey of "eons," that have found a way to perpetuate themselves here inside all life, and that are the "true maters of humanity." Narby is put in his place by twin serpents, notes that the double helix of DNA resembles "two entwined serpents," calls it "an extremely sophisticated technology ... that was initially developed elsewhere than on earth," and goes on to write a book called The Cosmic Serpent, in which the notion that DNA may be minded, and may encode intelligent messages that we can access in altered states of consciousness, receives its fullest elaboration.

I feel that the possibility cannot be discounted that these insights into the mysteries of DNA that have been given to scientists and anthropologists, just like the insights in to the properties and combinations of plants that ayahuasca gives to shamans in the Amazon may not be accidental. If our DNA is in any way an artifice of technology, then there is every reason to suppose that its makers would expect such a technology to result in the evolution of beings of high intelligence — sooner or later. In that case, the one certain way to send those future beings a message, no matter what unpredictable paths their mental and physical development might follow, would be to encode it in their DNA — indeed in the most basic elements of DNA that everyone and everything would have to possess some of, but that might accumulate preferentially in higher organisms.

Making up 97 per cent of the total DNA library in the cells of modern human beings, this is why the "junk" non-coding sequences with their mysterious language-like properties are so interesting. it may be the case that hallucinations of the sort that convey veridical knowledge about DNA or about plants, or about how to cure a certain sickness, or about the nature of reality, are as effective a technology as bio-engineering and genetic manipulation for exploring the true potential of the legacy stored inside all our cells. It may be, in other words, that the ancient teachers of mankind have been inside is all along but that we must enter altered states of consciousness in order to hear what they have to say.

— Graham Hancock, Supernatural, pp. 489-491
Bath, England, October 2005
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Alaya » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:29 pm

Simulist wrote:The shamans in Equador (and presumably many other places on earth, too) claim to learn from the psychedelic plants they ingest. Not only do these plants contain a very penetrating and multifaceted consciousness, but this consciousness also makes itself available to teach them through their visions.

One of the most important books I've ever read on this subject was Graham Hancock's book, Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind. There are probably many other great books on this, too, but my knowledge on this subject is very limited.

Do you have others that you'd recommend, Iamwhomiam?

EDIT: I should probably also mention Jim Dekorne's Psychedelic Shamanism, which is also extremely thought-provoking.



Sacred Plant Medicine and Secret Teachings of Plants
both by Steven Buhner

and

Plant Spirit Medicine by Elliot Cowan
User avatar
Alaya
 
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Cosmic Cowbell » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:41 pm

Simulist wrote:Earlier I mentioned Graham Hancock's excellent book, Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind. He has suggested that psychedelic plants may be the key to understanding our true human origins — and that our origins are not of this earth.

In my own experiences as a child with beings who looked remarkably similar to what are commonly referred to today as "UFO occupants," I was told by one of them that what I will need to know has been "written on your cells."


~C wrote:I've also stated a hypothesis here long ago that assumes:

A) The entities are physical rather than imaginal.

B) They have been here for a long time (the Mantis is often described as "ancient" in vibe.)

C) They have manipulated human DNA and may have had a hand in it's inception (the 2001 hypothesis).

D) DMT causes visions of the Mantis because that's what it's genetically programmed to do.


viewtopic.php?p=291270#p291270

I thank you for sharing that...
Last edited by Cosmic Cowbell on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil." ~ A.N. Whitehead
User avatar
Cosmic Cowbell
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:20 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Simulist » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:21 am

After thinking it over a bit, I've reconsidered posting any of the details of these experiences.
Last edited by Simulist on Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby Simulist » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:24 am

Also, thank you, Alaya. I'm very interested in the books you've suggested.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What is the nature of the Saucer menace?

Postby jingofever » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:40 am

barracuda wrote:There are ten million species on Earth, of which some one or two dozen are roughly analgous to homo...

Michael Swords argues for a sort of humanoid attractor in the evolutionary landscape. This post on the face is also relevant. Convergent evolution he calls it. He might be spinning 'just so' stories but I find his arguments interesting.
User avatar
jingofever
 
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 50 guests