The Wikileaks Question

[nathan28]

Riddler, it is *obviously* the Controlled Opposition of the Hegelian Dialectic of Problem-Reaction-Solution that the Je--I mean, Retil--I mean Elites have to control us, and Assangestein is *obviously* a mind-controlled plant who was MC'd in the '70s before ARPANET was even constructed in order to have a plant in the hacker community as part of the l/t plan, as implied in Tragedy & Hope, a book in many public and open university libraries across North America. WNYC clearly had instructions on those callers, who were COINTELPRO plants. Baer is a True American, like Bo Gritz, who wants to defend the country from the Communist-Muslim-Chinese Threat, which is also part of the controlled opposition.

[2012 Countdown]

Much too early to be making verdicts. I think it is just that everyone likes to play armchair analyst. Trying to guess by reading tea leaves or their preferred means of divination.
I say let the researchers research. 'Hold your horses', so to speak. What is going to be immediately popularized/pushed isn't necessarily going to be the most juicy item. The basement dwellers and earth diggers need time to connect the more interesting dots to statements and events I am sure.

Still sticking to my initial post. Some of you are in a feeding frenzy and immediately had ypur minds swayed/made up. I do not understand this at all.
Nathan pointed to the holes in Emory's 'expose'. As far as Madsen goes, come on. That guy is notoriously wrong. Ellesburg is in Assange's corner, if that means anything to you who are gunning for him now.

I'm going to wait and suspend judgement. I will leave all of you all to prognosticate and enjoy the speculation. I don't understand the rush to judgement though.

[slimmouse]

.

I'm going to wait and suspend judgement. I will leave all of you all to prognosticate and enjoy the speculation. I don't understand the rush to judgement though.

Having initially been lulled by the contents of the leaks being spewed out by the MSM, I almost fell for the jumping- to- conclusions stuff myself.

But knowing how the script writers for the talking heads operate, I should of course know better by now. Furthermore, as has already been pointed out, its early days yet.

Im with you here 2012

[Nordic]

Those who run the media know how important "first impressions" are.

Stuff that comes later will not be "first impressions".

Maybe Assange knows that, too, however, and if he's a "good guy" he would have planned it that way, so the real juicy stuff is released to the MSM first.

But who knows. I think this is all good, but I still don't trust the whole situation. Maybe we're getting "disinfoed" (can I make that verb?) by being served some great juicy meals while the other stuff is being hidden away?

Just don't know.

I liked Jack's comment. The stuff about Yemen and Honduras alone makes it all worthwhile.

On edit: At the same time, I worry that the real purpose of this is to what I suppose is referred to as "the limited hangout". Being unsure as to whether I actually understand this term, I'll put it this way:

It used to be that Americans (including myself) operated under the assumption that if anyone tried to do anything too heinous, that the press would figure it out and release it. I.E. the last thing you wanted, back in the mid 70's, was for "60 minutes" to be knocking on your door, or Woodward and Bernstein to get your info, right? Most Americans then believed that the press really kept things in check (to a point of course). We also had The Pentagon Papers and all of that.

But during the Bush years, most Americans realized that the press is no longer doing their job, and no longer on their side. "The man behind the curtain" was starting to become visible, Bush really blew it in that regard for the PTB.

So along comes Assange and Wikileaks. So now I can only assume people will think "well if it's true, then Wikileaks would probably find out about it".

Thus if Wikileaks doesn't release it, it probably didn't happen/doesn't exist/ is "conspiracy theory" only.

They might be realizing they've gotta chew off their own arm to get out of the trap. Throw a few projects under the bus -- Yemen, Honduras, etc. In order to keep quite hidden the stuff that they are desperate to keep hidden.

[Simulist]

But during the Bush years, most Americans realized that the press is no longer doing their job, and no longer on their side. "The man behind the curtain" was starting to become visible, Bush really blew it in that regard for the PTB.

So along comes Assange and Wikileaks. So now I can only assume people will think "well if it's true, then Wikileaks would probably find out about it".

Thus if Wikileaks doesn't release it, it probably didn't happen/doesn't exist/ is "conspiracy theory" only.

I've been considering something along those lines, too, Nordic.

[Fresno_Layshaft]

They might be realizing they've gotta chew off their own arm to get out of the trap. Throw a few projects under the bus -- Yemen, Honduras, etc. In order to keep quite hidden the stuff that they are desperate to keep hidden.

Limited Hangout makes no sense, why would they organize the release a bunch of stuff the mainstream media would never look for or run with on their own, to bury even greater secrets that the totally neutered and subservient press wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole? There's no heat on the intelligence community, the press is in their back pocket, why bother with this whole charade?

I totally agree with your "first impressions" theory. The media can shape this anyway they want and will sweep it under the rug in a matter of weeks. This stuff isn't a threat to the domestic operations of the US gov't. Maybe a few diplomats won't get invited to some parties... But you can't tell me that the US is the only country spying on diplomats...


PS.
Is possible to consolidate these Wikileaks threads? Its really heard to follow four threads at once. If thats possible...

[wintler2]

Is possible to consolidate these Wikileaks threads? Its really heard to follow four threads at once. If thats possible...

It is possible, but only with collective self discipline! I vote for this one, cos its current and has the most pertinent title.


Anybody else out there actually reading the leaked cables? My fav so far is ..

08MUSCAT174, ADMIRAL WILLIAM J. FALLON'S MEETING WITH SULTAN [of Oman]
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/20 ... AT174.html
...
------------------
THE SEARCH FOR GAS
------------------

¶8. (C) After noting Iranian dependence on imports of refined
fuel, the Sultan described Oman's efforts to obtain more
natural gas to fuel growing domestic power needs and
large-scale industrial projects. Oman had committed too much
of its limited gas production to long-term liquefied natural
gas (LNG) export contracts. As a result, the government was
trying to boost production by taking smaller and less
productive gas fields away from Petroleum Development Oman
(PDO) -- 60% owned by the government and 34% owned by Royal
Dutch Shell -- and awarding them to outside companies such as
British Gas and BP. The Sultan claimed these firms were in a
better position to increase productivity in these fields, and
pointed to the progress of U.S.-based Occidental Petroleum
Company in raising oil production in former PDO concession
areas, such as Mukhaizna.

¶9. (C) Looking offshore, the Sultan said he hoped that new
gas fields would be found in the Gulf of Oman to help ease
the country's natural gas shortage. India's Reliance
Industries was currently exploring a deepwater oil and gas
block in this body of water, but had made no significant
discoveries yet. Qatar would begin supplying gas to Oman by
2013, the Sultan noted, but not in quantities sufficient to
meet outstanding needs. He added that Oman was still
supplying limited gas from Musandam to Ras al-Khaimah in the
UAE due to an agreement he made with its emir -- and which
the Sultan felt he could not break -- well before Oman was
squeezed for this resource.

So Oman is running on empty/overcommited on its LNG exports, and selling off the gas the national co. should have control over .. i wonder how the locals feel about having no gas while their dictator props up a neighbouring dictator with their gas and sells the rest to western corporations?

There is no way that KNOWING this is the case will be insiginificant to Omans politics.
The significance of the cables is hiding in plain sight, while the MSM manages the 'nothing to see here' and 'is it/isn't it real' circus's.

[Simulist]

They might be realizing they've gotta chew off their own arm to get out of the trap. Throw a few projects under the bus -- Yemen, Honduras, etc. In order to keep quite hidden the stuff that they are desperate to keep hidden.

Limited Hangout makes no sense, why would they organize the release a bunch of stuff the mainstream media would never look for or run with on their own, to bury even greater secrets that the totally neutered and subservient press wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole?

First because IF this is partially a "limited hangout," it isn't the "totally neutered and subservient press" that is its target, but (1) the alternative media that, despite the numerous rabbit holes they fall into, has some modicum of an ability to think independently and (2) an American public that has grown increasingly skeptical of officialdom. so limited hangout does make some sense if one considers the point Nordic was making in the paragraphs prior to the one you quoted — the one I was agreeing with, prior to your post:

But during the Bush years, most Americans realized that the press is no longer doing their job, and no longer on their side. "The man behind the curtain" was starting to become visible, Bush really blew it in that regard for the PTB.

So along comes Assange and Wikileaks. So now I can only assume people will think "well if it's true, then Wikileaks would probably find out about it".

Thus if Wikileaks doesn't release it, it probably didn't happen/doesn't exist/ is "conspiracy theory" only.

Second, the possibility that this is a limited hangout makes some sense if the "limited" information contained in it is useful to whomever might be "hanging" it out. A number of posters here as well as a few commentators elsewhere have observed that, so far, this information appears to be useful to the "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" contingent. That alone causes the idea to make at least some sense as we consider it now — even if, in the final analysis, WikiLeaks turns out to be something altogether different.

It seems conceivable to me that WikiLeaks is both real and a channel for manipulation.

[Fresno_Layshaft]

They might be realizing they've gotta chew off their own arm to get out of the trap. Throw a few projects under the bus -- Yemen, Honduras, etc. In order to keep quite hidden the stuff that they are desperate to keep hidden.

Limited Hangout makes no sense, why would they organize the release a bunch of stuff the mainstream media would never look for or run with on their own, to bury even greater secrets that the totally neutered and subservient press wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole?

First because IF this is partially a "limited hangout," it isn't the "totally neutered and subservient press" that is its target, but (1) the alternative media that, despite the numerous rabbit holes they fall into, has some modicum of an ability to think independently and (2) an American public that has grown increasingly skeptical of officialdom. so limited hangout does make some sense if one considers the point Nordic was making in the paragraphs prior to the one you quoted — the one I was agreeing with, prior to your post:

But during the Bush years, most Americans realized that the press is no longer doing their job, and no longer on their side. "The man behind the curtain" was starting to become visible, Bush really blew it in that regard for the PTB.

So along comes Assange and Wikileaks. So now I can only assume people will think "well if it's true, then Wikileaks would probably find out about it".

Thus if Wikileaks doesn't release it, it probably didn't happen/doesn't exist/ is "conspiracy theory" only.

Second, the possibility that this is a "limited" hangout makes some sense if the limited information contained in it is useful to whomever might be "hanging" it out. A number of posters here as well as a few commentators elsewhere have observed that this information appears to be useful to the "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" contingent. That alone causes the idea to make at least some sense as we consider it now — even if, in the final analysis, WikiLeaks turns out to be something altogether different.

It seems conceivable to me that WikiLeaks is both real and a channel for manipulation.

"bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" is what the press is cherry-picking from the first round of releases. My understanding (and I may well be wrong) is, that only a very small fraction of the documents have been released. This could be the press covering for the gov't-- essentially doing damage control, making lemons of lemonade. I dunno...

I agree with you in that it could both real and a set up.

[smiths]

current guardian headline

Revealed: US and UK fear over security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons

US and UK diplomats warn of fissile material falling into the hands of terrorists or a devastating nuclear exchange with India

once more, explosive revelations about absolutely nothing

[Jeff]

I haven't reached any conclusions, but I'm fascinated by the questions. Like, for instance, where in Wikileaks is the wiki? I don't see anything resembling a collaborative web effort. Currently, I see a throttled and redacted graveyard for whistleblowers.

[82_28]

I posted this in the astrobiology thread, but it bears repeating. Nordic, at least thought it was a good point. Sorry for the F words. . .

It's probably too stupid to even bring up. But could one day, wikileaks be the method of this so-called "disclosure" we've "all been waiting" to hear about?

As much as wikileaks is in the "news" now, imagine such a thing. What keeps more recent "cables" and secrets available and yet all the shit about ET and UFOs and HAARP and CHEMTRAILS and extreme advanced technology and and and. . .still hidden from view (you know what I mean)

Thinking along these terms really helps to underscore just what (I think) is bullshit about the whole wikileaks hubbub.

CLEARLY. OBVIOUSLY. SOME SHIT CAN STILL BE KEPT SECRET. And the .gov knows exactly how to do it and do it well. Perhaps I should add this line of thought to the various wikileaks threads.

Like, where's the motherfucking wikileak about the purpose of the VAST satellite which was sent up last week? Some things are still COMPETENTLY kept secret.

Anyways. . .

[Luther Blissett]

I haven't reached any conclusions, but I'm fascinated by the questions. Like, for instance, where in Wikileaks is the wiki? I don't see anything resembling a collaborative web effort. Currently, I see a throttled and redacted graveyard for whistleblowers.

Wikileaks was originally user-composited. Maybe someday there will be a return to that. Almost assuredly not.

[JackRiddler]

I haven't reached any conclusions, but I'm fascinated by the questions. Like, for instance, where in Wikileaks is the wiki? I don't see anything resembling a collaborative web effort. Currently, I see a throttled and redacted graveyard for whistleblowers.

Wikileaks was originally user-composited. Maybe someday there will be a return to that. Almost assuredly not.

Almost assuredly yes, assuming the Internet itself isn't be shut down. Which is a big if.

But it probably won't be Wikileaks doing it. Imagine a scenario where 10 years from now, their historical position is analogous to that of the first blogger. (Who was the first blogger? Who cares?)

So along comes Assange and Wikileaks. So now I can only assume people will think "well if it's true, then Wikileaks would probably find out about it".

Thus if Wikileaks doesn't release it, it probably didn't happen/doesn't exist/ is "conspiracy theory" only.

How long do you think a perceived monopoly position for Wikileaks as the sole source and arbiter of the real shit would last?

If anyone actually thinks such a thing, who's fault is it?

.

[smiths]

ahhhhrrrggg, all of this is twisting my head