Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

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Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby professorpan » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:22 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/scien ... wanted=all

Why would the publication of any peer-reviewed paper by a respected scientist cause such outrage? Answer: because the so-called "scientists" who are outraged are not scientists at all, but adherents of a dogmatic, reductionist, materialist religion.

Journal’s Paper on ESP Expected to Prompt Outrage

One of psychology’s most respected journals has agreed to publish a paper presenting what its author describes as strong evidence for extrasensory perception, the ability to sense future events.

The decision may delight believers in so-called paranormal events, but it is already mortifying scientists. Advance copies of the paper, to be published this year in The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, have circulated widely among psychological researchers in recent weeks and have generated a mixture of amusement and scorn.

The paper describes nine unusual lab experiments performed over the past decade by its author, Daryl J. Bem, an emeritus professor at Cornell, testing the ability of college students to accurately sense random events, like whether a computer program will flash a photograph on the left or right side of its screen. The studies include more than 1,000 subjects.

Some scientists say the report deserves to be published, in the name of open inquiry; others insist that its acceptance only accentuates fundamental flaws in the evaluation and peer review of research in the social sciences.

“It’s craziness, pure craziness. I can’t believe a major journal is allowing this work in,” Ray Hyman, an emeritus professor of psychology at the University Oregon and longtime critic of ESP research, said. “I think it’s just an embarrassment for the entire field.”

The editor of the journal, Charles Judd, a psychologist at the University of Colorado, said the paper went through the journal’s regular review process. “Four reviewers made comments on the manuscript,” he said, “and these are very trusted people.”

All four decided that the paper met the journal’s editorial standards, Dr. Judd added, even though “there was no mechanism by which we could understand the results.”

But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence. Neglecting to take this into account — as conventional social science analyses do — makes many findings look far more significant than they really are, these experts say.

“Several top journals publish results only when these appear to support a hypothesis that is counterintuitive or attention-grabbing,” Eric-Jan Wagenmakers, a psychologist at the University of Amsterdam, wrote by e-mail. “But such a hypothesis probably constitutes an extraordinary claim, and it should undergo more scrutiny before it is allowed to enter the field.”

Dr. Wagenmakers is co-author of a rebuttal to the ESP paper that is scheduled to appear in the same issue of the journal.

In an interview, Dr. Bem, the author of the original paper and one of the most prominent research psychologists of his generation, said he intended each experiment to mimic a well-known classic study, “only time-reversed.”

In one classic memory experiment, for example, participants study 48 words and then divide a subset of 24 of them into categories, like food or animal. The act of categorizing reinforces memory, and on subsequent tests people are more likely to remember the words they practiced than those they did not.

In his version, Dr. Bem gave 100 college students a memory test before they did the categorizing — and found they were significantly more likely to remember words that they practiced later. “The results show that practicing a set of words after the recall test does, in fact, reach back in time to facilitate the recall of those words,” the paper concludes.

In another experiment, Dr. Bem had subjects choose which of two curtains on a computer screen hid a photograph; the other curtain hid nothing but a blank screen.

A software program randomly posted a picture behind one curtain or the other — but only after the participant made a choice. Still, the participants beat chance, by 53 percent to 50 percent, at least when the photos being posted were erotic ones. They did not do better than chance on negative or neutral photos.

“What I showed was that unselected subjects could sense the erotic photos,” Dr. Bem said, “but my guess is that if you use more talented people, who are better at this, they could find any of the photos.”

In recent weeks science bloggers, researchers and assorted skeptics have challenged Dr. Bem’s methods and his statistics, with many critiques digging deep into the arcane but important fine points of crunching numbers. (Others question his intentions. “He’s got a great sense of humor,” said Dr. Hyman, of Oregon. “I wouldn’t rule out that this is an elaborate joke.”)

Dr. Bem has generally responded in kind, sometimes accusing critics of misunderstanding his paper, others times of building a strong bias into their own re-evaluations of his data.

In one sense, it is a historically familiar pattern. For more than a century, researchers have conducted hundreds of tests to detect ESP, telekinesis and other such things, and when such studies have surfaced, skeptics have been quick to shoot holes in them.

But in another way, Dr. Bem is far from typical. He is widely respected for his clear, original thinking in social psychology, and some people familiar with the case say his reputation may have played a role in the paper’s acceptance.

Peer review is usually an anonymous process, with authors and reviewers unknown to one another. But all four reviewers of this paper were social psychologists, and all would have known whose work they were checking and would have been responsive to the way it was reasoned.

Perhaps more important, none were topflight statisticians. “The problem was that this paper was treated like any other,” said an editor at the journal, Laura King, a psychologist at the University of Missouri. “And it wasn’t.”

Many statisticians say that conventional social-science techniques for analyzing data make an assumption that is disingenuous and ultimately self-deceiving: that researchers know nothing about the probability of the so-called null hypothesis.

In this case, the null hypothesis would be that ESP does not exist. Refusing to give that hypothesis weight makes no sense, these experts say; if ESP exists, why aren’t people getting rich by reliably predicting the movement of the stock market or the outcome of football games?

Instead, these statisticians prefer a technique called Bayesian analysis, which seeks to determine whether the outcome of a particular experiment “changes the odds that a hypothesis is true,” in the words of Jeffrey N. Rouder, a psychologist at the University of Missouri who, with Richard D. Morey of the University of Groningen in the Netherlands, has also submitted a critique of Dr. Bem’s paper to the journal.

Physics and biology, among other disciplines, overwhelmingly suggest that Dr. Bem’s experiments have not changed those odds, Dr. Rouder said.

So far, at least three efforts to replicate the experiments have failed. But more are in the works, Dr. Bem said, adding, “I have received hundreds of requests for the materials” to conduct studies.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby nathan28 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:42 pm

But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence. Neglecting to take this into account — as conventional social science analyses do — makes many findings look far more significant than they really are, these experts say.


Can someone unpack this language for me? I really don't understand something about it--probably the underlying assumptions, which are unclear to me as well.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:28 pm

Its probably talking about how robust the results are.

That evidence (Bem's results) is disputed, and challenges the basic concepts of "science". So the disputes need to be settled. In this case the disputes seem to centre around how significant the results are, and some statisticians claim that the results, when subject to other statistical analysis could turn out to not show anything at all. iE not be statistically significant, because they were due to chance.

At least thats my impression.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby barracuda » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:32 pm

There was a thread about this paper when it first came out, here, with some relevant discussion.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:38 pm

nathan28 wrote:
But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence. Neglecting to take this into account — as conventional social science analyses do — makes many findings look far more significant than they really are, these experts say.


Can someone unpack this language for me? I really don't understand something about it--probably the underlying assumptions, which are unclear to me as well.


I don't recall the scientific method including this canard

Does anyone know the origin of this?
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby The Consul » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:57 pm

Will have to see the "evidence." I don't think it is necessary to call people "so called scientists." They have reason for their skepticism and it is supposedly part of their ethic. The problem with ESP and scientific evidence is that the phenomenon is often a random, unpredicatable occurence that if it has a pattern at all it is inhibited by the lab or the very methodology of scientific inquiry itself.

One of the best books on this subject and I highly recommend is "Extraordinary Knowwing" by Elizabeth Mayer. She goes at it from the point of a renowned person in a disciplined science who has to overcome the stigma of even talking about personal experience of an extraordinary knowing event that changed her life.

I highly recommend it. You can be an adamant defender of either "side" on this debate and this book will at least help you understand the history of exclusion and the future possibilities that "ESP" can everntually be studied from a scientific perspective. You have to admit, for every genuine empath or seer there are countless crackpots and scam artists crowding and clogging the bandwidth. Attacking science as a means of advancing extraordinary knowing is at least as counter productive as science denying ESP out of hand.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby The Consul » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:26 pm

nathan28 wrote:
But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence. Neglecting to take this into account — as conventional social science analyses do — makes many findings look far more significant than they really are, these experts say.


Can someone unpack this language for me? I really don't understand something about it--probably the underlying assumptions, which are unclear to me as well.


Someone has a clinic or institute. From previous case studies a specific model is composed. You might be studying, for example, people who have dreams that seem to forsee the future. Let's say 100 people are qualified to participate in this study. Each person is a known "dreamer" who has exhibited some form of having dreams that seem to portend later events.

The laws of physics do not contain a methodology of measuring dreams against reality. Still, you press on.
Let's say you study the 100 dreamers for 100 days and in that time they report 10,000 dreams. You have funding that allows you to maintain data collection and analysis for 5 years. The dreams are categorized into personal (dreams of family), professional (dreams of work life and processes) and global (dreams of outside work-home events).
Imagine that after 5 years you are able to determine that of the 10,000 dreams nearly 3500 of them came "true."
An outside scientist could probably eliminate all but four or five of them as being coincidence. Which isn't saying it couldn't be true, but there is insubstantial proof that it is actually true.
James Joyce asked the greaet pyschological question in Ulysses: "Coincidence, or intuition?" Verification bends away hard and fast from intuition, yet some of the greatest scientific theories originated out of intuitive thinking. But once again, for every Einstein there are 100,000 Hubbards and should be a matter of no small distrubance that one barely outweighs the other.
In other words, If I put a ball on a string and drop it from a wall that is twenty feet away from another wall and the wall I am on top of is 30 ft highter than the wall and the string is attached to the side of the opposite wall I can make various observations based on experiments of varying string length and wall distance and angle as to the arc and impact of the ball as well as size and composition of the ball and even color of ball for phenomenological purposes.
But....
If I have a dream that Michael Vic throws six touch down passes against the Packers and it happens, I have no way of proving that it is not coincidence. Even if I dream the exact outcome of all the other playoff games I cannot prove that I "saw" what happened, (I would be much better going off to Vegas than trying to convince an emeritus professor from Oregon that I have a third eye, dude, I mean really).
I would have to have EXTRAordinary evidence to prove that the dreams were not just an amazing coincidence. I would have to dream about something that could be proven was completely outside my knowledge and experience. For example, If I were a Quaker who had no television or access to internet and only had access to printed materials produced before 1890 I could dream that Benyamin Netanyahu's attache in Tel Aviv dies suddenly from a bleeding ulcer while eating in the 360 Cafe on the Montparnass in Paris and the cause is uranium oxide poisoning.... this would be extraordinary evidence, but not extraordinary proof unless it were a repeated behavior that could be verified.
The time will come when a means is devised for this without muddying the scientific fields with a bunch of egocentric loonies. This will happen from within science itself from all the professionals who have experienced the inexplicable and just can't hide it anymore.
Last edited by The Consul on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:30 pm

I think it refers to the idea that an ordinary claim fits within the scientific canon.

(There is one, its the narrative developed by scientific method and includes ideas like Darwinian evolution, gravity, relativity, quantum physics etc etc. All these ideas have developed along a fairly linear path and there is some consistency there thats similar to the consistency in common law and its long list of legal precedents.)

There are known and testable mechanisms that account for most of whats in the canon and the things that are on the edge of these mechanisms are usually where research happens.

An extraordinary claim is one that falls outside the mechanisms that have been accepted by science, and so for it account for the lack of precedent supporting it, something else has to come into play. This is the extraordinary evidence and basically that is something so undeniable that even dogmatic opponents of the claim have to accept that there is something in it.

the saying is credited credited to Marcello Truzzi.

According to wikipedia its derived from Hume's saying "A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence"
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:32 pm

In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new "fact." Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of "conventional science" as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis—saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact—he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.

– Marcello Truzzi, On Pseudo-Skepticism, Zetetic Scholar, 12/13, pp3-4, 1987


I just ripped that from wikipedia.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby tazmic » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:40 pm

nathan28 wrote:
But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence. Neglecting to take this into account — as conventional social science analyses do — makes many findings look far more significant than they really are, these experts say.


Can someone unpack this language for me? I really don't understand something about it--probably the underlying assumptions, which are unclear to me as well.

I'm not sure I get it either:

All four decided that the paper met the journal’s editorial standards, Dr. Judd added, even though “there was no mechanism by which we could understand the results.”

But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence."

So the problem is precisely that there is no theory to explain the observations. And this naturally makes the observations extraordinary. But the (simple, ordinary) claim that these observations amount to evidence for what they naturally represent results in significant consequences for established paradigms and so it's easier to conclude that the observations are evidence of something more complicated, as yet unknown, but definitely benign...

Sorry, I'm having a logic failure, unlike this guy:

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman

Joe Hillshoist wrote:An extraordinary claim is one that falls outside the mechanisms that have been accepted by science, and so for it account for the lack of precedent supporting it, something else has to come into play. This is the extraordinary evidence and basically that is something so undeniable that even dogmatic opponents of the claim have to accept that there is something in it.

the saying is credited credited to Marcello Truzzi.

According to wikipedia its derived from Hume's saying "A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence"

Perhaps, in this context "A scientist, therefore, proportions his belief to the extraordinary evidence, and otherwise, if he can get away with it, proportions the evidence to his belief"?
"It ever was, and is, and shall be, ever-living fire, in measures being kindled and in measures going out." - Heraclitus

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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby KudZu LoTek » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
nathan28 wrote:
But many experts say that is precisely the problem. Claims that defy almost every law of science are by definition extraordinary and thus require extraordinary evidence. Neglecting to take this into account — as conventional social science analyses do — makes many findings look far more significant than they really are, these experts say.


Can someone unpack this language for me? I really don't understand something about it--probably the underlying assumptions, which are unclear to me as well.


I don't recall the scientific method including this canard

Does anyone know the origin of this?


IIRC Carl Sagan first made the statement, but I don't recall the original situation he was referencing. Since then the expression has been widely picked up in different scientific circles. Pretty much a more elegant way of saying "Don't bullshit me - show me the data".

As to Dr. Bem's experiment, based on the general outline in the article, it does sound like a sloppy piece of work. Poor experiment design, a priori assumptions, non-random (biased) selection of test subjects, and a questionable application of statistics (liars, damn liars, and statisticians, oh my!).

I'm not even sure how a psychologist would be qualified to tackle an experiment like this. Psychology deals with subjective, internal phenomena - so why was he dabbling with a problem based on external manifestations? This area of inquiry would be more in the realm of physics than any of the social "sciences".

Physics and biology, among other disciplines, overwhelmingly suggest that Dr. Bem’s experiments have not changed those odds, Dr. Rouder said.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby KudZu LoTek » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:06 pm

tazmic wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:the saying is credited credited to Marcello Truzzi.
Oops, my bad.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby nathan28 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:58 pm

I'm not even sure how a psychologist would be qualified to tackle an experiment like this. Psychology deals with subjective, internal phenomena - so why was he dabbling with a problem based on external manifestations? This area of inquiry would be more in the realm of physics than any of the social "sciences".


Research psychologists use quantitative data all the time.
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby DrVolin » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:07 pm

The side of the screen precog test is not very impressive, and neither are the others. They have 53% success in one of 3 classes of images. This means that when all results are taken together, there is no observable effect. When the images are stratified into 3 smaller sets of observation, only 1 shows an effect, but we are not told how significant it is. Why is it not surprising that 1 set out of 3 shows an effect not detectable on the whole set?

In each of the smaller sets of observations, you expect more variance than in the larger, overall set from which they are drawn. Imagine that you run telekinesis experiements on the ability of subjects to affect the outcome of a coin toss. You run 20 tosses, 5 for each of 4 subjects. Overall, you find close to 10 tails and 10 heads. No effect. Now you analyse the tosses for each subject individually. You find that one subject has 4 heads, and one subject has four tails. Are you going to claim that those two are telekinetic while the other two aren't? If you had each subject perform 3 tosses one day, and 2 tosses on the next, are you going to find that they are all telekinetic at some times if you analyse their coin toss sessions individually?

And by no means would I call myself a 'top flight statistician'. This is stuff I teach in intro to quantitative methods in first year. This should have been picked up by the reviewers.
all these dreams are swept aside
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Re: Journal publication of ESP paper prompts "outrage"

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:11 pm

tazmic wrote:So the problem is precisely that there is no theory to explain the observations. And this naturally makes the observations extraordinary. But the (simple, ordinary) claim that these observations amount to evidence for what they naturally represent results in significant consequences for established paradigms and so it's easier to conclude that the observations are evidence of something more complicated, as yet unknown, but definitely benign...



A theory is a verifiable mechanism that stands up to repeated testing tho.

Without that who is to say that any number of other things couldn't have caused the result.

Its one thing to make an observation and say - look this doesn't fit your theory.

Its another to claim a mechanism for that observation based on basically your own untested opinion, and expect other people to take it seriously.

Shit I do that all the time, but I don't really expect people to take me seriously.



Basically this guy Bem is claiming that this evidence represents something, but other people don't think it does.

It might seem obvious to us that the evidence naturally supports the theory or supposition, but science doesn't work like that. Seems obvious isn't enough. It has to be measured and verified within an inch of its life.

Perhaps, in this context "A scientist, therefore, proportions his belief to the extraordinary evidence, and otherwise, if he can get away with it, proportions the evidence to his belief"?


Thats probably the case in all contexts, but scientists do try (however unsuccessfully) to align their beliefs with the currently accepted verifiable orthodoxy. And in the context of science there is an established process to allow change of orthodoxy.

This is a step forward from religion.

In this context tho ... I think it applies to both sides.

I personally think all scientific studies of esp and related stuff are doomed to failure until the concepts of training effects and neuroplasticity are taken into account, because of the semantic conflict and the clash of belief systems more than what the actual evidence says.

Currently the definition of ESP ofrthe related stuff the term represents, as a static thing like the rate of acceleration due to gravity, is the biggest stumbling block to its acceptance as a scientifically plausible concept.

There is no constant to test there. Its like trying to test whether or not humans can run 100m in under 10 seconds. Clearly some can.
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