Giffords shooting

[Burnt Hill]

Fair enough Nathan28.
But then your link to

this type of bullshit is manifest right here. I can practically hear some Henry Luce wannabe saying "focus on the Dickensian aspect" right now. Or "run with a picture of a hot chick".

I thought that article was pretty informative. While I get your cynicism, I cant fault the media for running an appropriately hopeful story.
And there is no coma involved. I am no fan of CNN, but how am I being decieved here?

I see the Raw Story piece as you do. Thanks for posting that.

[Kate]

Regarding who may have called Judge Roll and invited him to the event, it MAY have just been Giffords herself or a staffer of hers.

Here in AZ, I've heard from multiple sources that Giffords and Judge Roll were good friends. They respected and liked each other. I *might* even have heard that he had attended one or two other events with her previously -- I'm sorry that my memory sucks so much on this one point (that he had taken part in other events with her in the past), that I can't remember if I heard/read of it, or just imagine now that I did.

Of course, it may have been someone else entirely who called him. However, I think the staffer whose body he is said to have shielded, Ron Barber, is also someone the judge knew fairly well, for what THAT'S worth.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Just wanted to ask if anyone knows if it has been verified how Judge John Roll found out that Congresswoman Giffords was holding her event at the Safeway near his church. I've tried searching for a source that his wife said he received a call telling him to go there, but have yet to find it. So what kind of coincidence was this?

Who made the call is not verified. The claim that such a call was made belongs to DHS.

See below:



Latest on shooting of Congresswoman Giffords...motivation: anti Semitic and she was the target

Greta Van Susteren | January 9, 2011 8:11 AM

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Below is a note from my FNC colleague Jennifer Griffin: (by the way, the fact that my blogs focus on Congresswoman Giffords in no way is meant to take away from the other victims and their families. The tragedy is immeasurable and words inadequate.)
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Per Griffin

This is an internal memo obtained by Fox News put out by DHS compiling facts known so far about the case - new - shooter's mother worked for Pima board of supervisers and the suspected anti-Semitic motivation of the shooter.

MEMO:
"The investigation has been taken over by the FBI, and is being run through the Tucson Command Post. Here's what can be confirmed at this time (1800 hrs)... * Gabrielle Giffords Is in ICU.* Federal judge John Roll is deceased. He did rule on a 32 million dollar civil rights lawsuit in February, 2010. That ruling brought death threats to Roll and his family, and for a time he was given a protection detail.* 6 deaths attributed to the shooting. 19 total people hit by gunfire.* suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors* the suspect has multiple arrests ... But no criminal record? Intervention by someone?* no direct connection - but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.* DHS have a list of names and dates of birth of all victims.* the ACTIC is still playing a major role in the investigation... Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene, and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI. It did just come in from the command post, that the federal judge was Not originally scheduled to attend the meeting, according to wife. She stated that he received a phone call about an hour before and was invited to attend. Wrong place - wrong time. For the planning side, there are impromptu memorials popping up all over the state, but the largest one is downtown phoenix, at the capital."
--------------------------

Read more: http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/late ... z1BjjdVTws

Thanks, surfaceskimmer. I included that link on my latest blog entry.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Or for the motorcade to take Elm into Dealey.

Exactly. And according to the official narrative, Sirhan Sirhan would be extremely psychic(maybe be learned psychic skills at the Rosicrucian order he belonged to?) as how the heck did he know to be in the Ambassador kitchen pantry when thats clearly not where RFK and his people were originally heading after the speech.

Also one has to wonder if MLK's murder would have gone as plan had he booked the Rivermont as originally planned.

I've seem no indication that JLL was anything more than a troubled kid rather than a handled manchurian; but there are a few humdingers with the whole fall out.

I haven't made up my mind about JLL either, but there's no way I'll let the loose ends in this case get swept under the rug the way MSM always does. Here's the recent blog entry I wrote about it:


Loose Ends

The occasion of Martin Luther King Day this week seemed an appropriate time to talk about conspiracy theory. After all, the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King was no doubt accomplished through a conspiracy, the verdict on December 8, 1999, in the wrongful death civil trial by the King family against Loyd Jowers and "other unknown co-conspirators" found Jowers liable and that governmental agencies were parties to the assassination plot. Even career coincidence theorist Gerald Posner has conceded the possibility of conspiracy, just not involving the government. But of course, the government couldn't let an impartial jury of six whites and six blacks have the last word, so the Department of Justice completed an investigation in 2000 that they did not find evidence to support the allegations about conspiracy in the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Naturally, they recommended no further investigation. After all, what the jurors ruled on was just a "theory".



Where conspiracy theory is concerned, my chief complaint is the way the word "theory" itself has become denigrated in our culture to a degree that is unconscionable in a supposedly intelligent society. Why is it that gravity and relativity are accepted as reality, yet evolution and the greenhouse effect are a source of controversy? All four concepts are scientific theories. It seems to me that the more deeply a theory threatens the way certain powerful institutions in society operate (think Galileo and the Catholic Church), the more controversial that theory is made to appear within society by those same powerful institutions. As it goes for scientific theories, it goes to an even greater degree for conspiracy theories. After all, the academic study of conspiracy theory hasn't exactly been embraced by institutions of higher learning to the same degree the study of scientific theory has. If anyone offers a Doctorate in Political Conspiracy Theory, I'm not aware of it. Lacking that legitimacy, it is a field of study that is easy to debase because so many practitioners fail to apply the same rigorous standards that a scientist does when testing a hypothesis.

So without the same rigorous standards that scientists apply, how do you differentiate a conspiracy theory from a conspiracy hypothesis? Make sure the practitioner has actually tested their hypothesis against the larger pattern of facts to substantiate their claim. I'll take the most recent example by examining the case of Jared Lee Loughner. When I first heard about this tragedy last weekend, there had been initial reports that Loughner may have had an accomplice that accompanied him to the Safeway supermarket in Tucson, Arizona where six people were murdered and thirteen injured, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, who remains hospitalized in serious condition with a gunshot wound to the head, and Judge John Roll, who died of his wounds. While Judge Roll had been a target of death threats in the past after ruling that a group of illegal immigrants could go forward with a multi-million dollar civil rights lawsuit against a state rancher, it was reportedly Congresswoman Giffords that Loughner was obsessed with and it was her event in the Safeway parking lot that Loughner targeted her.

So right from the beginning, an immediate hypothesis for conspiracy was established:

Shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner had an accomplice in a conspiracy to assassinate Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords

Taking into account prior death threats, there was another conspiracy hypothesis:

Shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner's accomplice conspired to assassinate Judge John Roll

It seemed as if both hypotheses could be invalidated the day after the shooting. The police had questioned the man whose picture had been published as a person of interest and discovered that he was only the taxi driver that Loughner had called for a ride to the Safeway. With his alibi verified by his employer, the police were no longer interested after questioning. This would invalidate the taxi driver as an accomplice if he were the only other person of interest detained by the police. The problem is, according to the Huffington Post, he wasn't:

“Tucson Citizen:
==========
­===
"Police arrest man near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others. A third man is being sought."”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Oi ... 84003.html

However, as was originally pointed out by pepsified thinker at Rigorous Intuition, the Tucson Citizen citation by Oligarch at Huffington Post no longer contains any information about this arrest. Clearly the arrest is not in reference to the taxi driver; he was never arrested or apprehended on Thornydale and Magee on the day of the shooting. The driver, John Marino, was questioned by the FBI and Pima County sheriff's officers at the taxi company where he worked on Sunday morning, January 9, but was not taken into custody and had no idea he had dropped off the alleged shooter at Safeway the previous day.

So who was the man arrested "near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others"? Clearly it was not the taxi driver and it couldn't have been Loughner either. Originally, I thought the Safeway that the shooting occurred at was located at 9705 North Thornydale Road in Tucson, which would be 2.14 miles north of where the arrest occurred. Later, I found out it was located at 7100 North Oracle Road, 5.19 miles away from the arrest. Either way, it's not Loughner, who was arrested in the Safeway parking lot. There has been no word from the Tucson Citizen regarding why any mention of this report was scrubbed from their website. So the identity of the arrested man remains a mystery.

What about the assassination of Judge John Roll? While I agree with Cenk Uygur from The Young Turks that there can be no debate that the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords was an intended political assassination ("Was Jared Loughner's act in shooting Rep. Giffords political? Apparently this is what's being debated with a straight face now. Is this a joke? He shot a politician in the head. He called it an "assassination." What part of that was unclear?"), the murder of Judge Roll is less clear. There is no evidence that Loughner had any prior hatred toward Roll in his writings as there is with Giffords. Was he aware that Roll would be stopping by to see Giffords at the event? No evidence has been found that he was aware. Who was it that told Roll over the phone an hour before, according to Homeland Security who found out from his wife, that he was invited to attend? (Thanks for the link, surfaceskimmer!)If someone else told him to come there, who was it? There could be a connection to Loughner or it could be an unfortunate coincidence. The questions need answers for verification one way or another.



Does all this add up to conspiracy theory? Maybe, maybe not. The possibility that Loughner may have an accomplice is still a working hypothesis that has not been invalidated. But for this hypothesis to move out of the realm of possibility into probability, more questions need to be answered regarding who, what, when, where and most importantly: why? There were early reports that Loughner was connected to a racist organization American Renaissance, later denied by Homeland Security, that if confirmed might have given a clue as to motive. Loughner's alleged professed motive, deducted from his internet ramblings, seems to be rooted in a belief that the government is engaged in a practice of mind control through grammar. While the grammar aspect is new, government involvement in mind control is not. Was Loughner's mind "programming" self-inflicted or brought about by another controller?

At this point, gathering all the loose ends hasn't clarified that picture. But that's why I think that the theoretical research of conspiracy is a valid academic endeavor: it ties up the loose ends, if done thoroughly, and gives a more complete picture of the whole truth. I'd like to thank everyone at Rigorous Intuition for their participation in this pursuit. Hopefully with the passage of time and the diligence of focused research, we will paint a more complete picture to separate the plausible from the possible. We'll see if either of my conspiracy hypotheses will eventually be deemed a conspiracy theory.

[IanEye]

thank you for sharing your blog entry.


more and more, this case reminds me of John Salvi.

[Crow]

We'll see if either of my conspiracy hypotheses will eventually be deemed a conspiracy theory.

A conspiracy hypothesis becomes a conspiracy theory if it veers either too far from the truth, or too close.

[8bitagent]

thank you for sharing your blog entry.


more and more, this case reminds me of John Salvi.

John Salvi was a conspiracy theorist: "Shortly after his arrest he released a handwritten note alleging conspiracies of freemasons, conspiracies to manipulate paper currency, and conspiracies against Catholics. ... He has talked about the Vatican printing its own currency and a specific conspiracy of the Ku Klux Klan, the Freemasons, and the Mob."

Aren't they all? I remember Mcveigh was said to be big into 90's era right wing theories regarding a coming "one world government", gun grabbing, etc.

One of the most strangest cases of possible manchurian/handled shooters to me has to be the DC Sniper case...like a duck in a noose...

[Crow]

One of the most strangest cases of possible manchurian/handled shooters to me has to be the DC Sniper case...like a duck in a noose...

It would be fascinating to learn more about the DC sniper case. The snipers were the most obvious mind-controlled killers since Sirhan Sirhan -- the "duck in a noose" announcement was practically an open admission. But other than a few obscure websites, the mind control connection is never mentioned anywhere.

The question of whether Loughner was mind-controlled is practically mainstream by comparison, though the evidence is infinitely weaker.

[justdrew]

well, I don't know, but cab driver would be a good cover occupation for a retired psi-handler. I bet they're not even going to check to see if there was ever any previous contact between the two. It says Sunday morning the driver "had no idea he dropped off the shooter" - that doesn't entirely make sense does it?

[stillrobertpaulsen]

thank you for sharing your blog entry.


more and more, this case reminds me of John Salvi.

Thanks IanEye. And thanks for sharing about John Salvi. That's a "lone nut" I hadn't heard of before.

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Related, I think.
______________
Destructive device found along Spokane MLK parade route

A backpack containing a potentially deadly device capable of inflicting "multiple casualties" was found in Spokane, Washington, along the route of a Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. parade, the FBI said Tuesday.

I was wondering about that. Rachel Maddow has been vigilantly reporting on that; MSM seems to have slept through any follow up. Tried googling Spokane and Tucson and came up with this:

Friday, January 21, 2011
Was the Tucson shooting and the Spokane, WA terrorist plot related to the same skin head group?
Most have heard about the Tucson shooting by a mentally ill neo-nazi / skinhead. Most have not heard about the terrorist plot in Spokane Washington on the Martin Luther King Holiday this past monday.

There was a backpack with explosives / shrapnel left along the MLK parade route in Spokane. It was to be detonated by a terrorist watching it from afar. The FBI has stated it was a sophisticated bomb plot by someone that knew what they were doing. Yesterday it was reported there were ties between that backpack bomb and a group of neo nazis in northern Idaho (~20 miles from Spokane, WA)

This hate group has threatened president Obama and is now carrying out their threats of killing Jewish leaders (congresswoman Giffords is Jewish) as well as those who were marching in support of MLK and his views on equal rights for all races of people.

One has to wonder why the media has not connected the two events when both events were carried out by people with the same racist world view. If this group is escalating, then there may be another event they attempt to carry out soon.

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/ ... ne-wa.html

[justdrew]

plus, 11 cops shot in the last 24 hours (as of 12 hours or more ago)

and the graffiti threatening to Kill Governor Jerry Brown on the 14th of Feb showing up in Calli.

---

I really think people are disregarding that cab driver too quickly.

---

but other than the haircut what else ties JLL to neo-nazi/skinheads?

[surfaceskimmer]

Friday, January 14, 2011

Forum Links 9-year old's Chaperone To MK-Ultra Project


One would think it not just tragic, but a little too odd that a child who was born on 9/11 was killed in the shooting in Arizona. This seems almost designed to pull on the heartstrings of Americans. But when I noticed that it was not the parents who brought her to the shooting, this added to my suspicions. In fact a web forum has already made the astounding link that the neighbor who was a chaperone for the child that day, and whose idea it was to bring her to the event, can be directly linked to Cornell's College of Human Ecology where she was a graduate in '73. It can only be assumed that the College of Human Ecology at Cornell has some relationship to the Human Ecology Fund or The Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology at Cornell which is known as a CIA founded MK-Ultra (human behavior studies, mind control) related institution.

Quoting from one source:

The CIA's key instrument for sponsoring basic research in psychology, sociology and anthropology in the decade from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s was the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, later called the Human Ecology Fund. Although accounts vary, according to Lawrence Hinkle, one of the founders of the Society and a professor at Cornell Medical Center, the origins of Human Ecology lie in a friendship between Allen Dulles and Harold Wolff, a prominent Cornell neuropsychiatrist who had cared for Dulles' son following a war injury. The return of American prisoners of war who had served in Korea evoked government and popular concern about the possible existence of "brainwashing."

...



In addition, the neighbor's name, Susan Hileman, is also included in the acknowledgements section of a paper on Quality of Early Care and Childhood Trauma: A Prospective Study of Developmental Pathways to Dissociation

Dissociation is highly related to mind control.

See Also: Ted And Jared.
Posted by George at 9:10 AM

http://ofgoatsandmen.blogspot.com/20...one-to-mk.html

http://ofgoatsandmen.blogspot.com/2011/ ... to-mk.html

[LilyPatToo]

I posted about that odd link to the Human Ecology fund in anther thread on the Tuscon shooting (scroll 2/3's of the way down the page), but I didn't know that Susan Hileman's name was on a paper on dissociation When I hear that someone's associated with one of the groups that funded MKULTRA half a century ago, I assume the connection is long lapsed and give the person the benefit of the doubt, but co-authoring a paper on a disorder exploited by the trauma-based mind control programs puts this woman much closer to (if not a part of) those experiments.

Re: Giffords subscribed to shooter's Youtube channel

The Human Ecology bunch, huh? Well that's interesting--! I don't know their current status re: CIA funding for mind control, but some of their early history is definitely dirty:

Quote:
The CIA's key instrument for sponsoring basic research in psychology, sociology and anthropology in the decade from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s was the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, later called the Human Ecology Fund. Although accounts vary, according to Lawrence Hinkle, one of the founders of the Society and a professor at Cornell Medical Center, the origins of Human Ecology lie in a friendship between Allen Dulles and Harold Wolff, a prominent Cornell neuropsychiatrist who had cared for Dulles' son following a war injury. The return of American prisoners of war who had served in Korea evoked government and popular concern about the possible existence of "brainwashing." As director of the CIA, Dulles asked Wolff, an expert on stress, to find out what had happened to the POWs, and the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology was set up at Cornell Medical College to address this question through research on Chinese and Soviet methods of interrogation and indoctrination. Hinkle has said that he himself, as well as the Dean of Cornell Medical School, were aware of the Society's CIA origins.

How bizarre that someone with connections to them was a victim...I kinda expected the opposite to be true. Given the many years since they did behavior control work and John Marks' exposure of it, my guess would be that they've long since moved away from the field. But the victim was old enough to have been around since at least the latter years of its CIA work...hope more surfaces on this part of the puzzle.

Thank you for finding mention of that paper, surfaceskimmer. I wonder if we'll ever find out whether that poor little girl was in any way involved in a present day version of the programs? She was certainly one of "the best and the brightest" and we keep hearing about people being "groomed" (via programming) from childhood for prominent future roles in politics...

LilyPat

[SonicG]

Not sure what to make of this or if it belongs here but there are some connections to be drawn - on both sides - in regards to gun control.

January 25, 2011 07:00 PM
11 Police Shootings in 24 Hours: Coincidence or something else?
27 comments
By karoli

A war on cops? As I write this, MSNBC is reporting at least 11 shot in a 24-hour period, which certainly seems to point to something more than coincidence.

In just 24 hours, at least 11 officers were shot. The shootings included Sunday attacks at traffic stops in Indiana and Oregon, a Detroit police station shooting that wounded four officers, and a shootout at a Port Orchard, Wash., Wal-Mart that injured two deputies. On Monday morning, two officers were shot dead and a U.S. Marshal was wounded by a gunman in St. Petersburg, Fla.

On Thursday, two Miami-Dade, Fla., detectives were killed by a murder suspect they were trying to arrest.

"It's not a fluke," said Richard Roberts, spokesman for the International Union of Police Associations. "There's a perception among officers in the field that there’s a war on cops going on."

Last week, a LAUSD police officer was shot in Woodland Hills. The suspect is still at large.

One of the shootings that took place in the recent 24-hour swarm was in St. Petersburg, FL. According to witnesses, over 100 rounds were fired. I wonder how many were from the police and how many were from the shooter holed up in the attic?

Or the shootings in Detroit, where the bad guy was able to shoot four policemen in their precinct before a cop finally killed him? How did that guy manage to land bullets on four cops before they could shoot him?

I'd be willing to put money on high-capacity clips as one possible culprit.

When I hear the standard NRA drumbeat about how high-capacity clips are really a good thing because they bolster one's ability to shoot back at the bad guys, I wonder how they justify that statement when the ones with extended clips who are actually using them ARE the bad guys and they're shooting at good guys.

I don't know if this rash of shootings is mere coincidence or something bigger. What I do know is that the NRA logic is upside-down and nonsensical. The odds of a police officer or even ordinary citizen being on the receiving end of a high-capacity clip in the hands of a criminal are far higher than an ordinary citizen needing a high capacity clip to defend themselves.

Is there any room for some common sense measures here?

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/11-pol ... cidence-or