Astroturf libertarians a threat to internet democracy

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Re: Astroturf libertarians a threat to internet democracy

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:59 pm

If we can go way back to the beginning ... these are the sort of "libertarians" wintler is referring to:

http://catallaxyfiles.com/

Thats Australia's so called leading "libertarian and centre right blog".

How libertarian is it by the standards of the people who first objected to winters post and Monbiots comments?

By your standards, cos as far as I can tell about the only thing they are interested in is less tax for miners or something.
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Re: Astroturf libertarians a threat to internet democracy

Postby Nordic » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:16 pm

You know, this would be/could be a really interesting thread if we just dropped the whole "L word" thing from it.

Because the bottom line is that people are being PAID to propagandize on the internet, as "regular people".

And they are being paid by people with money which in 99% of the cases are Big Corporations.

I've run into this time and time again, back when I used to post on some of the popular forums out there, and it's actually a real problem.

They aren't just the "L word" people, they are Democratic Party whores, Repub whores, Monsanto whores, Big Pharma whores, they're all out there en masse.
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Re: Astroturf libertarians a threat to internet democracy

Postby 23 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:20 pm

To answer your question, Joe, libertarianism has its historical roots in non-statist socialism.

The westernized (I prefer the descriptor bastardized) version, which arrived much later, has its roots in capitalism.

Less taxes sounds like a mantra of the latter.

Did that answer your question?
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Re: Astroturf libertarians a threat to internet democracy

Postby wintler2 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:54 pm

Nordic wrote:You know, this would be/could be a really interesting thread if we just dropped the whole "L word" thing from it.

But i find the elaborate defence of the modern brand intriguing.

Nordic wrote:Because the bottom line is that people are being PAID to propagandize on the internet, as "regular people".

Thats not really the subject of the OP, just for clarity. The fascist-media-fed rush of belonging to the internet [neoliberal] libertarian tribe is sufficient payoff for many it seems.

Nordic wrote:And they are being paid by people with money which in 99% of the cases are Big Corporations.
I've run into this time and time again, back when I used to post on some of the popular forums out there, and it's actually a real problem.
They aren't just the "L word" people, they are Democratic Party whores, Repub whores, Monsanto whores, Big Pharma whores, they're all out there en masse.

Not being a yank i can't know, so could you name me some 'Big Corporations' that are 'Democratic Party whores' with paid-poster campaigns.
I'm not disputing that paid-posting happens, just whether the Left is as into it as the Right - i don't think the Left (terms used for convenience rather than accuracy) has the resources.

--

Thanks JoeH, i'd never heard of them, but thats exactly what i'm talking about.
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Re: Astroturf libertarians a threat to internet democracy

Postby wintler2 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:59 pm

Joe Hillshoist wrote:It really shits me the way leftist people people conflate the term "right wing libertarian" with anything they don't like. Its a stupid use of language.


Ok Joe, i promise to stop writing it :)

Joe Hillshoist wrote:I think a more useful one would be "corporate faux libertarian". Cos that is what Monbiot is talking about and it is a serious issue. These people are dicks and they are certainly not interested in a discussion. They are interested in poisoning discussions that raise issues about their employers profit margins. But that rarely happens in a place like this. Usually it is the comments section of msm blogs/papers (Or the twitter feeds of certain anti corporate types,) because thats where the court of public opinion gets told what to think. And it does happen - you can see it.



Yep it does.

Some more evidence on the diversity & scale of it:

ABC National/Background Briefing podcast: The internet is awash with misinformation, manipulated identities, fake reviews, and dishonest comments. Politicians use astroturfing. So do businesses and marketing firms. Beware—it's infecting everyone.


Don't be put off by the tabloid blurb + malign title ("Don't trust the web" omfg), 50min provides much info & instances. Twitter gets named as particularly compromised.

The 'self-motivated troll' theory (that i was pushing above) gets a bit of a hammering. There are alot of real people + sockpuppets being paid.
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