rigorousintuition.ca

Hammer of Los wrote:Thanks for the Steiner, Justdrew.

I always liked Steiner, a very impressive thinker. On another forum, I had a quote by him as my sig line; "There is only so much suffering in the world as there is interest in the material and the physical.." and so on.

WiH? I guess I know what that means; the most bizarre and fascinating work I have ever read, and one of the most subtly resonating and disturbing. It was another text I came across early in my internet roaming, in fact. Now I think about it there was another thread on it here, once upon a time. But why the mystery, Justdrew? Can I tell him what the work was? I have it up in another tab. I know I should avoid looking at it. Just walk away. Worse than the Necronomicon, if you want my opinion.

yeah, if you have a link to one of the previous discussions please post it. why the secrecy? I don't know, I don't want it to be a hobby horse I drag out all the time, but there is major relationship of that & W.S.'s The Key (I think).

I don't know if I'd go quite so far as "Worse than the Necronomicon" but it could be dangerous but it at least also offers some useful info as well, while I don't really feel any redeeming stuff would be found in that N. (you mean the mid-late 70s edition cooked up in that occult bookstore right?)

guruilla wrote:Normally I find Steiner pretty accessible, but I can't read that stuff.

What's WiH and why the need for mystery?

well, the excerpts I posted are in the end of book, and it is 100 year old writing, plus I'm kinda jumping in there at the climax of sorts. if you search it, the full text is widely available online

as for the other thing, http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/warinheaven/warheaven-III.htm

If Whitley Strieber can be imagined as a self-recruited Paranormal Pied Piper leading an introductory parade into an alien landscape, I’m pleased that the apparent majority of this learned assembly appears to remain squinting from the sidelines and seeking credentials before paying the piper. I’ve enjoyed the kind feedback and intriguing insights already offered here.

I have kept the original question about alien implants in mind and thought I should add that to my commentary too. I’m surprised that WS seems to say he has the only imbedded implant resistant to alien radio mind control while the rest of the tagged abductees are subject to mind tracking manipulation by the ex-planetary puppeteers. Or maybe he’s a special case, like a favored Pinnochio who leads others by a nose. And I agree that the tune sounds strangely familiar. I also wish it was lighter, happier and more positive, instead of sounding like a soulful whining wail.

My own suspicions center more upon a possibly implanted sequence already resting secretly in our supposedly “junk” DNA, like a double helix data stream that might get activated to ultimately understand aliens, abductions and other-dimensional entities that occasionally intrude upon our consciousness to unscramble us. If a further mechanistic device must serve to activate that sneaky snake sequence maybe a subcutaneous switch might become a more popular body-piercing fad.

Meanwhile I take Whitley’s wandering wondering about yet another probe as more speculation, despite the attribution of the insights to an Ascended Master of the Key.

Much like Jacques Vallee described these alien overseers as Messengers of Deception, I think that any doorway to their dimensions might involve an inner skeleton key that unlocks our individual skulls to their predatory Psi piracy. And that key probably unravels the double helix snake poison we’ve all reproduced.

So the “channeled” chatter, while impressive, still needs to source its signal before I tune in and then follow the Pie-eyed Piper into any co-opted cult of Communion cosmology.

peartreed

So, today I do a search in this forum for Dr Roger Leir, and find the first link in this particular thread. I'll readily confess to being a genuine newcomer to this whole UFO thing by way of any serious study, hence my question ;

Is Dr Leir the real deal ?

Secondly an observation. Naturally anyone who ventures beyond first base in this entire field will very quickly come across the writings/works/ interviews with Mr Strieber. It took me two interviews to come to my own assumption that Strieber is cleary an MC victim of some description or other. The very emotion in his voice, and what appears to me as the clearly confused nature of some of his thinking screams this to me.

And I'll take your answers and comments offline .......thankyou

What has helped me somewhat better understand the luminaries of the ufo phenomenon is the recognition that, to many of the followers, regardless of their intellect or academic credentials, UFO belief is a religion - or a substitute for one - with most of its trappings and characteristics. There are books about this, referenced earlier, such as Christopher Partridge's, "UFO Religions".

In the case of Dr. Leir, or Strieber, or the usual Ph.D authors on the subject, I've become accustomed to first look for their existing or evolving level of credulity or "blind faith" that mankind is being monitored, possibly even originated and developed as a species, by some superior power from Above - or from Space. That assumption opens the doors for their acceptance of the "miraculous" - but mostly non-scientific testimony, anecdotal evidence and research reaffirming their spiritual predisposition and need for vindication and transcendence. From there, despite all the rationalizations and denials, they (often subconsciously) fit the facts to reinforce their personal beliefs and profound desire for salvation.

Like all religions, such belief and faith then shifts the personal onus and responsibility for ultimate worth off the shoulders and up.

There is nothing more heady than an infant's instinctive and comforting return - at any age - to an indoctrinated, complete dependence upon a largely unknown, nurturing, larger, mystifying, superior Other.

While not entirely dismissive of the resulting documentation, this factor enlightens the perspective on their academic objectivity.

Each time I return to the subject of Strieber over the years, I find myself a little closer to the nub of the mystery, and to the emotional core of my own attraction to it. As with Castaneda, my attraction to Strieber has to do with the forces or intelligences which he claims to have had contact with, and with a deep desire within me—a longing—to develop a relationship of my own with them. Strieber became for me a connection, a go-between, by which I hoped somehow to get closer to the contents of my own unconscious, and to the hidden agents of the Imaginal or divine realms. Reading his work was the principle means to strengthen that connection.

Delusion is the human condition, and only the enlightened (assuming such beings as Strieber's "Master of the Key" even exist) are entirely free of it. The question of delusion becomes more urgent, however, when ordinarily deluded individuals assume a role of authority and wisdom in our society. This is not only the case with priests and politicians, but also musicians, filmmakers, artists and writers. It applies perhaps especially to esoteric writers, since they are trafficking in information about hidden or greater reality. The danger is then that an ordinary delusion becomes an extraordinary one. Since such individuals are claiming to have access to higher truths, the element of delusion becomes more critical; at the same time, by persuading others to believe them and their higher truths, their delusion can go “viral.” A “delusional consensus” is then created, also known as a cult.

In the case of Strieber (and similarly with Castaneda), the potential for self-replicating and self-propagating delusions is enormous, because the source of Strieber’s experiences and of the special truth he is conveying—just as with religious authority figures and gurus—is not of this world. And of course, that is its primary appeal. There are two major downsides to this: one, it means that no one else can corroborate or question the specially “privileged” material without claiming a similar kind of access. Secondly, the otherworldly or Imaginal nature of the experiences makes them particularly subject to misinterpretation, because we lack the necessary frame of reference (the accumulated and shared data) by which to properly understand them.

Thanks for your input fellas. I guess neither of you have formed a positive/ negative conclusion about the work of Dr Leir, which is of course fair enough. I guess youve both seen Dr Leirs stuff/ website and all the rest of it. It is my personal assumption that if this guy is truly faking it, then I for one am at a loss to reasonably understand why. But of course, Im not a psychologist either.

http://www.alienscalpel.com/

Like yourselves, Im personally agnostic wrt Mr Streiber, though I lean towards your own convictions gurilla,

I guess my own overiding conclusion/ assumption is this;

It is practically impossible for any sane mind to believe for even a nanosecond that the whole abduction thing is little more than either a cocophany of deluded minds , or a CIA/MIC psyop for the purposes of muddying the waters and covering the tracks of both their own activities and those of their disturbed masters.

Any thoughts on the Travis Walton case ?

guruilla wrote:In the case of Strieber (and similarly with Castaneda), the potential for self-replicating and self-propagating delusions is enormous, because the source of Strieber’s experiences and of the special truth he is conveying—just as with religious authority figures and gurus—is not of this world.

It isn't clear at all that the source(s) of Whitley Strieber's "experience" or "special truth" is "not of this world."

In fact, the more I got to know Mr. Strieber's work -- and I got to know it quite well, actually -- the more persuaded I became that probably most (and possibly all) of his experiences (and many of the truths that he claims to have derived from them) were from all-too-human sources.

slimmouse wrote: Any thoughts on the Travis Walton case ?

I have relatives who know him, one of which did bodywork on him and she says that whatever happened to him really screwed up his nervous system. They believe the alien abduction scenario. I think it can be explained through mil-intel psyops and human experimentation. But I never met him.

Why are we spending 5 pages on a publicity hounding, disinfo distributing, drama queen - fiction writer?

Alaya wrote:Why are we spending 5 pages on a publicity hounding, disinfo distributing, drama queen - fiction writer?

I like you.

Slimmouse. They aren't convictions, just POVs, perceptions, ever-changing. UFO stands for Un-Founded Opinions, did you not know?

If I were married to WS, I'd have a stronger opinion about him, maybe even a conviction, which would make me his convict. Happily that's not the case. You could ask Anne Strieber?

I am the product of arrested development (see my avatar, still a baby at heart, if not mind), and all my perceptions are shaped and colored, like a paint-by-numbers book of life, by childhood longing for contact, support, nurture, assistance, salvation, from "higher beings" (mom and dad? Forgetaboutit: missing in action!).

Through that hole in our collective soul, all alien forces swarm, because Nurture Abhors a Vacuum.

All we're talking about here is the weird and wonderful wackiness of our own de-looted perceptions. That's the place to start and nowhere hells.

Or so it seems to me.

Dr. Leir's bio verifies his interest in religious perspective on the UFO phenomenon by virtue of his official liaison with the Vatican on his feature production titled, "Original Sin" that bridges both "theosophies". He also has a history of surgically removing implants from abductees and, as a podiatrist, has similarly helped Whitley Strieber remove implants and his foot from his mouth.

Whitley's childhood catholicism and adult understudying of Gurdjieff helped predispose him to interpreting his own higher conscious in an arguably altered state as divine intervention and information from either visitors, the Master of the Key or an unknown Other.

Travis Walton is reported to have discussed the prospect of alien encounters in the local woods with his family before his own famous abduction from Snowflake's logging trails, so he evidenced a predisposition to paranormal contact and adventure too. He is currently working as a janitor, which apparently allows him ample time to consider the negative impact of all the publicity and ridicule he was subjected to as a result.

Again, I've simply noted that most publicized Ufologists and contactees tend to share an almost evangelical drive to convince and then convert us. They put themselves into the role of exclusive intermediary or messianic messenger between UFO and mankind.

peartreed wrote: I've simply noted that most publicized Ufologists and contactees tend to share an almost evangelical drive to convince and then convert us. They put themselves into the role of exclusive intermediary or messianic messenger between UFO and mankind.

Just because chickens lay eggs doesn't prove that eggs don't sometimes hatch chickens.

most publicized Ufologists and contactees tend to share an almost evangelical drive to convince and then convert us. They put themselves into the role of exclusive intermediary or messianic messenger between UFO and mankind.

That's the nature of the contact, though. The Other is luminous, numinous, and utterly unlike normal waking life. The structure of the experience makes Messiah overtones inevitable when people try to communicate about it.

Not intended to dismiss your point at all, just wanted to make that observation.

There's also a bit of a selection bias loop when you specify "publicized" folks.