Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby 666 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:59 am

Stephen Morgan wrote:I blame the Nazis. Being anti-Semitic used to be fine, was very popular, then they came along and ruined it for everyone.



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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby wintler2 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:12 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:..
Yes, I do believe that using the law to force prayer out of school *is* an example of people of a non-theist bent to force their non-theism on others.


Rilly, to be fair, we should have prayers to ALL the gods. But in alphabetic order, or by # of followers? # of wars? If we count just the current wars, then the faux-christians would get to be first.

And it follows that i should be able to 'pray' evolution at Sunday mass, and raise that little issue about infinite god being only masculine. If beer is in my ritual, can i bring a sixpack?
:lol:

I have the sticker on my bike: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby vanlose kid » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:37 am

wintler2 wrote:... and raise that little issue about infinite god being only masculine....


in the same setting we could raise the issue of ships, nations, the earth (Gaia) etc., being only feminine.

on edit: while we're at it we might also take up French grammar being all over the place in questions of gender, and seek to establish, once and for all, a rational and revolutionary grammar of the French language that fits the facts.

*
Last edited by vanlose kid on Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby hanshan » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:39 am

...

JackRiddler wrote:.

C_w, saw your post answering my question asking for examples of non-theists oppressing theists through law and force a while ago.

Now before you went and added the edit, I actually intended to reply as follows:

France? What an interesting example.

I commend you for not reaching for the usual canards of blaming Stalinist Russia or Maoist China on atheism, since of course neither of these states oppressed people because of any remotely rational atheism, but because of a secular religion that was actually a revival of the same God-Emperor cult we see in countless autocracies going all the way back to the Pharoahs. (I suppose the modern Chinese state, which is less ideologically cultish but just as oppressive of its people, including of religious movements, may be closer to an atheistic tyranny.)

Of course, you are also mad, but that's all right and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. Revolutionary France seized the long-held lands of the Catholic Church, 'tis true, and broke its power, surely with justification given the history of oppression and benightment the people had suffered under it; but the excesses of the Terror were also applied with cruelty to many a neck from the former First Estate, 'tis also true.

Today's France imposes measures like the 'burqa ban' in the name of secularism and protection of individual freedom, but these are thinly disguised religious intolerance angling for culturally right-wing voters, or really just plain hating on the unassimilated immigrants (not that I'm for burqas, mind you, just aware that a punitive law is not really meant as a solution any more than the NATO troops are in Afghanistan to advance women's rights).

And I wonder what you mean by the French detours? Because there were some Catholic and monarchical revivals or reactions in that country's history, sometimes verging on fascism; I hope you don't view these positively.

.

Unfortunately, then you went and did that edit, and threw in the usual bogeymen of theist persecution, Stalin and Mao.

Okay. Preemptively answered above.

But then you took things decisively farther.

Are you really implying that the removal of Christianist ceremonies ("prayer") from US public schools is an oppression of religionists? I can't believe you'd really be for allowing the Christianists to use the country's public schools for brainwashing and to bully the non-conformists there, because of course that is exactly what would happen -- what already does happen, and would become a hundred times worse if it were given legal cover. Madalyn Murray O'Hare was a hero for pursuing that case.

As a child I was forced to attend a private school that practiced religious indoctrination on us, including interminable teacher-monitored church services on the Tuesdays; and that was still in a relatively liberal culture compared to what would be happening in a great many fundamentalist precincts of this nation. One of the things we learned in our church was that y'all's churches in Texas aren't the real thing. Sorry, there's only one original church, and it's Orthodox, and there is a Western wing of heretics run out of Rome, and all the rest is pure delusion and barely worth even acknowledging. That's the Christianity I learned.

Canadian_watcher wrote:Christianity is certainly tied to a singular group: Christians.


This is not remotely a singular group.

This is a catch-all for a number of persuasions, many of which do not consider the others to be Christian. Christian churches have at many times been at war and burned each others' members freely, not to mention that library in Alexandria you were wondering about.

In fact, these sects were already at war with each other even before the Roman Empire decided to adopt Christianity as the right religion for keeping the slaves in order. (Results were mixed.) The greatest holiday native to our church alone (i.e., Orthodox holiday only) commemorates a fucking 30-year civil war and massacres over the question of whether you're allowed to draw a picture of Jesus.

I suppose the good guys must have won, because I like stuff like this:

Image

An earlier conflict that people actually fought and died in, at least if you believe the Church tellings of the motives behind the killing, was about whether the Christ was all God or half-God half-man. Or wait, maybe whether he was all man or half-and-half prior to the Resurrection, and all God after that? I may be at war with myself.

Since I was brought up in a church of this supposed singular group (not that this is a necessity for criticizing Christianity or its variants), I feel fully empowered to say that most Christians (regardless of whether they are Greek Orthodox or the heretical majority) are not Christians.

I've said it here before: If the teachings of the Christ character as given in the Gospels are not your central guide to action in life, then you are not a Christian. (I am not a Christian.) Doesn't matter if you believe in the literal truth of the Christ story, his god-hood or Resurrection, or if you think you're "born again." Christians are those who take Christ as their teacher, not their "savior." If you love your neighbor as yourself and share what you have with those in need, and the Gospels are your inspiration for that, then you are a Christian, even if you don't believe in the bible sky god. Whereas Pat Robertson is not a Christian, because his is an ideology of hatred. The apocalyptists, fundamentalists, homo-haters and positive-thinking Salesman Christians a la Osteen are not Christians.

Christian is also a historically recent philosophy (in Big History terms, anyway), not a biological trait that's been around since humans first evolved. Christian is as it does; therefore it is not remotely comparable to sex, race, or sexual orientation.

Canadian_watcher wrote:But I'm not talking about Christianity. I'm talking about anyone who says they have faith - even if that faith isn't tied to a religion. You cannot tell me that there isn't a prejudice, especially noticeable here on this board but prevalent in the "left" almost everywhere, against people who are spiritual.


That brings us back to oppression. Does the rejection by some of purely faith-based assertions on a message board amount to a prejudice, and if you want to call it that, what's wrong with it?

Besides which, on this message board you engage in evidentiary statements all the time. So your faith must live with other means of apprehending the world.

By the way, given this subject: I assume you do not on the whole believe in the Ickean reptilians, except perhaps as metaphor. Or do you? If so, then do you believe in their existence on faith alone? Or do you believe in the Ickean reptilians on evidence? The latter would be if you felt you had experienced it somehow, or seen clues, rather than believing on pure word.

And a final "by the way": Do you think my writings in this post are indicative of this prejudice against people of faith and spirituality? We might as well have that out in the open amongst us, since neither of us is going to demand that the other be burned at the stake, I am sure.

.

Anyway, it's all about how one defines "faith" and "spiritual," and plenty of people who make much of these concepts in their lives are good, good people.

Many better than me, if "you are as you do" is the rule.

So here's a video I ran into today via Counterpunch, of some Catholic Workers fighting the good fight:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGb9pqcz3_Y




(précis); A+, Jack. Have to catch the tube on 'nother round.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:51 am

wintler2 wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:..
Yes, I do believe that using the law to force prayer out of school *is* an example of people of a non-theist bent to force their non-theism on others.


Rilly, to be fair, we should have prayers to ALL the gods. But in alphabetic order, or by # of followers? # of wars? If we count just the current wars, then the faux-christians would get to be first.

And it follows that i should be able to 'pray' evolution at Sunday mass, and raise that little issue about infinite god being only masculine. If beer is in my ritual, can i bring a sixpack?
:lol:

I have the sticker on my bike: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.


did you see the next line in my post where I said "whether or not I think that [removing prayer from school] is right is a whole other matter?

It's pretty easy to make fun of someone's argument if you just take part of it and leave the rest, particularly if 'the rest' is an important qualifier directly concerning the part you're making fun of.

Your argument above kind of sounds like the one homophobics use against gay marriage:

"Well, if yer gunna let the queers marry, I wanna marry my GOAT!" "And *I* wanna marry my toaster oven!"
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby wintler2 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:35 am

Sorry CW, i can't take you seriously any more, no matter how cutely you frame your arguments.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:46 am

JackRiddler wrote:.

I commend you for not reaching for the usual canards of blaming Stalinist Russia or Maoist China on atheism, since of course neither of these states oppressed people because of any remotely rational atheism, but because of a secular religion that was actually a revival of the same God-Emperor cult we see in countless autocracies going all the way back to the Pharoahs. (I suppose the modern Chinese state, which is less ideologically cultish but just as oppressive of its people, including of religious movements, may be closer to an atheistic tyranny.)


To be fair, Jack, this is always the way. The controlling class will always replace any form of mind-control that they take away. That you might not see technocratic beliefs and consumerism as forms of mind control does not negate the fact that a strong argument can be made that they are; the religious do not see their faith(s) as mind control, either.

Mao and Lenin were both atheists and sought to eradicate the practice of religion. I note that you have to jump through hoops to figure out how to paint that as somehow different than what you asked me to answer, word for word:

Jack Riddler wrote:Not to repeat that exchange we had on the "Facts" thread, but I'd like you to point to an example where people who are not believers in one of the theistic religions are enforcing their beliefs on theists. And I mean enforcing, meaning: imposing by law and force.


Here is Lenin himself:

V. I. Lenin
Socialism and Religion

Published: Novaya Zhizn, No. 28, December 3, 1905. Signed: N. Lenin. Published according to the text in Novaya Zhizn.
Source: Lenin Collected Works, Progress Publishers, 1965, Moscow, Volume 10, pages 83-87.


...

If that is so, why do we not declare in our Programme that we are atheists? Why do we not forbid Christians and other believers in God to join our Party?

The answer to this question will serve to explain the very important difference in the way the question of religion is presented by the bourgeois democrats and the Social-Democrats.

Our Programme is based entirely on the scientific, and moreover the materialist, world-outlook. An explanation of our Programme, therefore, necessarily includes an explanation of the true historical and economic roots of the religious fog. Our propaganda necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism; the publication of the appropriate scientific literature, which the autocratic feudal government has hitherto strictly forbidden and persecuted, must now form one of the fields of our Party work. We shall now probably have to follow the advice Engels once gave to the German Socialists: to translate and widely disseminate the literature of the eighteenth-century French Enlighteners and atheists.


Lenin welcomed the religious into his party, but I argue that that was merely a ruse to keep membership numbers high - his goal was to convert them but he had learned by observing Europe that States could not succeed at that by outright attacking religion. Still, this doesn't go directly to your question. This does:

You asked whether or not any non-theists forced their beliefs on others by law.. declaring the separation of church and state and using the power and mechanisms of the State to proselytize against religion, I'd say that Lenin's tactic qualifies.

JackRiddler wrote:.Of course, you are also mad,


as a hatter. you too?

JackRiddler wrote:.
Today's France imposes measures like the 'burqa ban' in the name of secularism and protection of individual freedom, but these are thinly disguised religious intolerance angling for culturally right-wing voters, or really just plain hating on the unassimilated immigrants (not that I'm for burqas, mind you, just aware that a punitive law is not really meant as a solution any more than the NATO troops are in Afghanistan to advance women's rights).


I didn't know that we were taking motives into account. The fact remains that France directly imposes non-theism onto theists.

JackRiddler wrote:.And I wonder what you mean by the French detours? (I mean just what you've written here:) Because there were some Catholic and monarchical revivals or reactions in that country's history, sometimes verging on fascism; I hope you don't view these positively. (No, I don't and honestly I'm insulted that you'd ask that. I have faith not a love of despotism.)


JackRiddler wrote:.
Are you really implying that the removal of Christianist ceremonies ("prayer") from US public schools is an oppression of religionists?


People who value prayer in the school would say yes. Either way though, it does surely demonstrate the force of law being used to impose non-theist practices on theists.

JackRiddler wrote: I can't believe you'd really be for allowing the Christianists to use the country's public schools for brainwashing and to bully the non-conformists there, because of course that is exactly what would happen -- what already does happen, and would become a hundred times worse if it were given legal cover. Madalyn Murray O'Hare was a hero for pursuing that case.


Because of the diversity of faiths, I don't believe public schools to be appropriate venues for Christian prayer. However, I do see an inherent danger of divisiveness among people if we force every person of faith to organize and open a separate school for their faith alone. How does that help society? I see you are already well aware of how damaging it stands to be:

JackRiddler wrote:As a child I was forced to attend a private school that practiced religious indoctrination on us, including interminable teacher-monitored church services on the Tuesdays; and that was still in a relatively liberal culture compared to what would be happening in a great many fundamentalist precincts of this nation. One of the things we learned in our church was that y'all's churches in Texas aren't the real thing. Sorry, there's only one original church, and it's Orthodox, and there is a Western wing of heretics run out of Rome, and all the rest is pure delusion and barely worth even acknowledging. That's the Christianity I learned.




JackRiddler wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:Christianity is certainly tied to a singular group: Christians.


This is not remotely a singular group. This is a catch-all for a number of persuasions, many of which do not consider the others to be Christian.
[/quote]

By that logic, are all Jewish people members of the same 'persuasion'?

JackRiddler wrote: Christians are those who take Christ as their teacher, not their "savior." If you love your neighbor as yourself and share what you have with those in need, and the Gospels are your inspiration for that, then you are a Christian, even if you don't believe in the bible sky god.


wait wait wait... I believe that I should love my neighbour as myself and I'm not a Christian. Where does that leave us? No, I see what you were getting at, don't worry. Just having a little fun. ;)

JackRiddler wrote:Christian is as it does; therefore it is not remotely comparable to sex, race, or sexual orientation.


I'd take issue WRT 'sexual orientation' - it's also recent and characterized by behaviour. FTR I am completely supportive of gay rights, same sex marriage, etc etc.

JackRiddler wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:But I'm not talking about Christianity. I'm talking about anyone who says they have faith - even if that faith isn't tied to a religion. You cannot tell me that there isn't a prejudice, especially noticeable here on this board but prevalent in the "left" almost everywhere, against people who are spiritual.


That brings us back to oppression. Does the rejection by some of purely faith-based assertions on a message board amount to a prejudice, and if you want to call it that, what's wrong with it?


Oh heavens no! The rejection of purely faith based assertions is fine and dandy with me. It's the dismissal of all non-faith based assertions therefore put forth by someone who has declared that they are faithful/spiritual or the denigrating of their beliefs that I don't like.

There is a difference between, "I just don't buy what you believe," and "I can't argue with faith based thunkers" ... I'm sure you know that.

JackRiddler wrote:Besides which, on this message board you engage in evidentiary statements all the time. So your faith must live with other means of apprehending the world.


No, no it doesn't. If I can prove it with empirical evidence, I don't believe it.

JackRiddler wrote: Do you think my writings in this post are indicative of this prejudice against people of faith and spirituality? We might as well have that out in the open amongst us, since neither of us is going to demand that the other be burned at the stake, I am sure.


Prejudice is such a loaded word. Let me first be clear that I do not believe that it is they type of prejudice which would see you engage in violence, nor does it seem to indicate hatred, really. Intolerance, bias, blind spots?
Yes. I don't think you mean any harm and I don't think it'd be possible, really, for me to explain it. You asking if I thought the French 'detours' were a positive thing is one sample, and wondering aloud if faith can exist beside evidence. Also the section wrt to Madalyn O'Hair was pretty condescending. (not towards me, personally, just towards people of faith in general.)

I haven't watched the video yet...

EDIT: Just saw wintler's post directly above. That sort of thing. I've said I have faith and he's a douchebag about it.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby wintler2 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:07 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:.. The fact remains that France directly imposes non-theism onto theists.

The fact remains your facts are not facts. Banning the burqua is a long long long way from imposing non-theism. Surely faith is of the mind and heart, not the wardrobe?

Canadian_watcher wrote:EDIT: Just saw wintler's post directly above. That sort of thing. I've said I have faith and he's a douchebag about it.

Wrong again. I'm a douchebag (as you put it, why are xtians so nasty?) about your insistance that Alex Jones is a good guy. There is abundant evidence he is a racist homophobic ego-maniac, never mind being wrong again and again, and you apparently just don't care. Your efforts to now paint all this as anti-theism are pathetic enough for AJs show, but until you make it on, they belong on another thread.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby wintler2 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:24 am

Letter on Salon.com
Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:19 AM ET

Alex Jones is a nutcase

Last September 10th, I exposed a penniless career con man from California after Hardin, Montana's industrial development authority announced a deal to turn over the keys to its prison to the newest scam artist to show up at its door.

Two weeks later, Jones went to the town and claimed that the guy was working for Blackwater, was going to train an army of mercenaries, was part of Obama's "National Police Force," that it was a FEMA concentration camp, that the guy was forcing H1N1 flu vaccinations on residents, etc., etc.

All of those claims were lies. Jones inflated one psthetic scamster's false claims into a multinational conspiracy.

He never took down the ridiculous videos he made alleging the supposed plot.
—Frank Smith, Bluff City, KS Read Frank Smith, Bluff City, KS's other letters
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:47 am

wintler2 wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:EDIT: Just saw wintler's post directly above. That sort of thing. I've said I have faith and he's a douchebag about it.

Wrong again. I'm a douchebag (as you put it, why are xtians so nasty?) about your insistance that Alex Jones is a good guy. There is abundant evidence he is a racist homophobic ego-maniac, never mind being wrong again and again, and you apparently just don't care. Your efforts to now paint all this as anti-theism are pathetic enough for AJs show, but until you make it on, they belong on another thread.


here you go sweetness, I didn't realize you were hard of seeing:

I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby crikkett » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:09 am

Wombaticus Rex wrote:I'm kind of baffled why you guys are bringing up the looting in response to my points. It's true, I was only speaking to the actual locations of bases...since that's the part the US was, you know, actually responsible for.

Did any US soldiers engage in looting? I was under the impression Iraquis did that themselves and they were angry after the fact because the US did nothing whatsoever to secure and protect those landmarks and collections. (Which had no strategic value, esp. compared to, you know, oil.)

Were there MI6 Agents in turbans smashing up the museums? Is my impression wrong?


I thought they were securing alien artifacts and sumerian scrolls that proved AAT, using 'looting' as a cover story.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby Searcher08 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:49 am

Canadian_watcher wrote:
wintler2 wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:EDIT: Just saw wintler's post directly above. That sort of thing. I've said I have faith and he's a douchebag about it.

Wrong again. I'm a douchebag (as you put it, why are xtians so nasty?) about your insistance that Alex Jones is a good guy. There is abundant evidence he is a racist homophobic ego-maniac, never mind being wrong again and again, and you apparently just don't care. Your efforts to now paint all this as anti-theism are pathetic enough for AJs show, but until you make it on, they belong on another thread.


here you go sweetness, I didn't realize you were hard of seeing:

I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN


C_W, TELL THAT AUSSIE WINDBAG TO CHILL OUT!!! said the Lord

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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby wordspeak2 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:11 pm

Anyone doubting that Alex Jones is a dishonest, divisive, money-driven tool should listen to the Jack Blood broadcasts that Jack mentioned (thank you): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRZjgdQ7pSc

"Hancock asserts that possibly the encounter with entheogenic plants which gave rise to the flowering of culture during the Aurignacian needs to be reexperienced through new encounters today - but didn't that very flowering lead inexorably to the disasters of today?"

And how on Earth is that? How did the use of entheogenic plants lead to disasters of today? The drugs that fuel the war and control mechanisms of today are alcohol and stimulants. These are the drugs of the elites. Psychedelics are repressed; they flip patriarchy on its head.

I'm fully on the political Left, and I understand that real spirituality comes from working with the Earth and psychoactive plants. The evidence is strong, furthermore, that that is the basis of the modern religions. The modern "organized" religions, though, have been butchered, and are now used as disempowering tools of social control, in that they take away power from us as divine beings and give it to an imaginary God in the sky, whom we are to fear (the effect is we are to fear the political elite). If we were to collectively find real religion and dismiss the scary God in the sky, we might just overthrow the capitalist control system, which is based on that fear and disempowerment. The power that comes from working with these plants is immeasurable.

Graham Hancock may be untrained or what have you, but his basic premise is probably right.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby justdrew » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:35 pm

despite all the problems with A.J. I do think it's a good thing that he seems to be much more of a discussion driver these days than any of the standard Reich Wing gasbags. One big thing is he makes it easy for his listeners to question the veracity of his information, I dont think nearly the same percentage of his listeners take whatever he says as gospel. ya know, ditto-heads and all that old Flush Limpballs crap.
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Re: Alex Jones Rant: DMT Elves Control Global Elites

Postby American Dream » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:45 pm

justdrew wrote:despite all the problems with A.J. I do think it's a good thing that he seems to be much more of a discussion driver these days than any of the standard Reich Wing gasbags. One big thing is he makes it easy for his listeners to question the veracity of his information, I dont think nearly the same percentage of his listeners take whatever he says as gospel. ya know, ditto-heads and all that old Flush Limpballs crap.



And we all know that his medicine isn't DMT, Ayahuasca or anything like that:

Don't Drink, Don't Smoke, Prescription Drugs

Creator: Scumbag Bastard
Favorite Quote: "Rush Limbaugh is part of a drug ring."


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