Mark Duggan Shooting

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Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Harvey » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:05 pm

The shooting of Mark "Starrish" Duggan on Thursday provoked riots across London last night. He was apparently told to 'stop' by by three unmarked armed police patrols. Newspapers immediately labelled it 'gangster shot dead'. Mr Duggan was shot while he was riding in a taxi, since yesterday I've been wondering how he could have 'stopped'.

Riot aftermath.

It was said that he shot at police after being confronted by SO19 (Menezes) presumably from his taxi, one officer being injured was saved when the bullet lodged in his police radio. The Guardian are now reporting that the 'radio bullet' is in fact police issue.

7.35pm: Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.

The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports:


The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers.

It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died.

The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.

These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/ ... uggan-live



Curious.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Harvey » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:45 pm

"Speculation that Mark Duggan was 'assassinated' in an execution style involving a number of shots to the head are categorically untrue. Following the formal identification of the body Mr Duggan's family know that this is not the case and I would ask anyone reporting this to be aware of its inaccuracy and its inflammatory nature."


Volunteered IPCC Commissioner Rachel Cerfontyne.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Avalon » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:13 pm

Any relation to the curious death of Jeremiah Duggan?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27313&p=322561&hilit=duggan#p322561
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Harvey » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:19 pm

Avalon wrote:Any relation to the curious death of Jeremiah Duggan?



Unrelated. Mark Duggan was black, father of four.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:28 pm

Reports on twitter of police not responding quickly enough, of them standing around waiting while shops burned etc. Now it's kicking of in Enfield, rumblings of stuff happening in Walthamstow. And this is just a small taste of what it's going to be like (FYI Haringey is the London borough where it all kicked off on Saturday):

Farewell youth clubs, hello street life – and gang warfare

With budget cuts leading to the loss of facilities that kept many inner-city youths occupied, experts predict a rise in crime

Alexandra Topping
guardian.co.uk, Friday 29 July 2011 19.06 BST
Article history

'There will be riots over youth club closures'

On a warm afternoon in Wood Green, north London, Aaron, 15, weaved on his bike through harassed pedestrians, a hat – worn under a hood – pulled low over his eyes, despite the sunshine.

He was out here, he said, because his local youth club had closed. "I used to go to youth clubs but now there's nothing to do. We're just out here, getting up to no good." He looked around at the people staying out of his way, and added: "People are intimidated by us."

He was arrested the day before for something he said he "didn't even do", and blamed the closure of his youth club for the fact he is stopped more often by police.

"When we are all together with our hoodies up, no one wants to be around us," he said. "The youth club was just a place we could all go and have fun, at least we had somewhere to go. Now we walk down the streets, we get pulled over by police. There is nothing here for us."

Aaron is one of hundreds of youngsters in the north London borough of Haringey whose youth clubs were shut after the youth services budget was slashed by 75% after a cut of £41m to the council's overall budget. Hundreds of thousands of young people throughout the UK are affected.

Gang experts, MPs and sector workers are warning that these cuts – which have hit youth services harder than any other area of local authority spending, according to the education select committee – could have a serious impact on the safety of young people in urban areas.

For Aaron the dangers of the street are real. His friend Negus McClean bled to death from stab wounds to his chest after he was attacked by a gang in nearby Edmonton. His attackers have not yet been arrested.

"People are getting stabbed these days over postcodes ... people getting stabbed up, people getting robbed, their house burgled, bare stuff is going on right now. Bare stuff, it's crazy."

The future of some organisations attempting to combat this postcode warfare is under threat. Erika Lopez, 19, one of the organisers of Hype (Haringey Young People Empowered), a youth-led group that tackles gang and postcode violence through activities such as football tournaments held in neutral areas, said its future is uncertain.

The council is charging the organisation to use rooms that used to be free and future funding is unlikely. The young people involved are starting to drift away, she said.

"They are like, 'if it doesn't matter to the council and to the government then why should it matter to us?'

"I'm upset but what can we really do about it? It's not like we've got a chance to win in a fight against the government."

Erika has first-hand experience of what can happen when postcode rivalries erupt. After taking a friend from the "wrong" postcode to another friend's 18th birthday party, she found herself on the floor with a gun held to her face.

"The trigger jammed," she said, matter-of-factly. "They were trying to fire it but the trigger stuck and that's when they punched me in the face. I'm only here because of God's will."

Godwin Lawson was also a Hype member and a footballer who played for Oxford United. In March last year the 17-year-old was back in London to see friends and family when he was attacked by a gang.

"He had one stab wound straight in his heart and he died straight away," said his mother, Yvonne Lawson.

Surrounded by photos of her boy, his Oxford United shirt framed on the wall, she said the consequences of his death have been "beyond pain".

The streets are getting worse, she said. "Every day you switch the television on and you hear about one stabbing after another. You are scared for your life, for your children's life – for the whole community."

Experts in the sector fear that the positive work achieved in recent years could be lost, perhaps forever, as a result of the cuts.

Jonathan Toy, head of community safety and enforcement at Southwark council, said local authorities were being forced to scale back their gang work and focus on the most problematic individuals and areas.

But each murder investigation in the borough costs £1.5m so cutting programmes does not make financial sense.

"It takes a long time to build up these relationships," he said. "Losing programmes is cost-ineffective and the impact is you lose some of that trust and confidence you have built up in that community."

The government is keen for the voluntary sector to take on the challenges posed by gang culture, announcing £18m to help charities tackle knife, gun and gang crime. But a sign taped to the wall of the Pedro club in Hackney, a youth club where founder James Cook and volunteers have been tackling gang problems since 2003, gives an indication of the challenges they face: "Do not bring weapons on to these premises as you will be searched by metal detectors."

Former gang member Sasha, now 17 and helping in the club, said getting a gun is as easy as making a phone call "if you know the right people". She knows this because, when in the gang, she had an "altercation" with a girl and made that call.

"Ten minutes later my friend was in Tottenham with a gun to her face. I didn't have no problems after that."

Knives are even easier. "You can pick them up in Argos," she said, explaining that since stop and searches became more frequent, blade stashes can be found all over the borough. "They could be in a garden underneath a plant, in an abandoned building, anywhere really."

Reaching young people in gangs is difficult, time-consuming and often intimidating, according to Kevin, a former youth worker who lost his job in the cuts in Hackney and does not want to give his surname. "You need to know how to deal with it, you need dedicated frontline staff. If you get it wrong – they take it personally. If we have a hot summer holiday expect front pages, because kids are going to die."

Others worry that a perfect storm of unemployment, the withdrawal of the Education Maintenance Allowance and a squeeze on programmes to help disadvantaged youths could bring more than just a rise in crime figures and result in a "lost generation".

"The young people in Tottenham, they are not so much a community within a community, they are a community beyond the community, with their own rules, their own codes, their own hierarchy," said Symeon Brown, 22, who helped run a campaign to prevent the cuts in Haringey. "How do you create a ghetto? By taking away the very services that people depend upon to live, to better themselves."

Professor John Pitts, who has researched gang behaviour for more than 40 years, says the "annihilation" of youth services, coupled with academies likely to favour middle-class students over disadvantaged children, could further disconnect young people from society and result in more entrenched gangs.

"Services are not just being taken away from young people, they are being taken from poor young people," he said.

"At a simple level that could mean an increase in antisocial behaviour and vandalism. In the longer term, if you withdraw state protection then there will be ever greater reliance on the groupings that emerge in that vacuum."

In a chip shop in Hackney, in an area associated with one of the capital's most notorious gangs, the London Fields Boys, the need to belong and be protected is clear.

Two young men – supposedly banned from seeing each other after being arrested the previous day for failing to stop at a police stop and search – greeted each other with the phrase "Alrigh' Fam".

The theme of family – another term often used is "cuz", short for cousin – is strong for many young men who identify with this type of life.

"It ain't a gang, it's a family," said one. "Some people, yeah they sell drugs and kill people, but it ain't all like that."

Another explained that he can't leave his "ends", the area where he grew up. "I feel safe in my areas. But if I go out, I go on my bike, I don't like walking."

He is not talking about going into central London, but just to the other side of the borough, or even a few streets away.

"You can't go nowhere, you might get hurt," he said. "This is Hackney, no one likes no one, everyone thinks they are better."

Very few young people are involved in gangs – according to the Centre for Social Justice's report Dying to Belong only 6% of young people up to 19 say they belong to a gang.

But the growth of this kind of normalised violence in some areas makes people, including David Lammy, the MP for Tottenham, call the cuts to youth services a "big, big mistake".

Combined with the rise in university fees and a cut to the Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) grant, which encouraged disadvantaged young people to stay in higher education, the effect would be devastating, said Lammy.

"I'm worried that the sort of scenes we will see in inner-city communities across the country will now be on a par with the sorts of scenes we see in America."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/2 ... lubs-close
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Harvey » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:40 pm

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:Reports on twitter of police not responding quickly enough, of them standing around waiting while shops burned etc. Now it's kicking of in Enfield, rumblings of stuff happening in Walthamstow. And this is just a small taste of what it's going to be like (FYI Haringey is the London borough where it all kicked off on Saturday):



Are you getting that ------------------------------------------------------------> "Look over there!" feeling?

Murdoch, governement and police corruption, Norway, Navy Seals---------------------------------> Squirrel!

BBC are using the A word. Anarchists!
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby semper occultus » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:35 pm

Haringey Save Our Youth Service campaign release open letter to Haringey politicians:
November 2010
www.hapsnews.net

<snip>

Last week we met the CEO of the council in bernie grants, 200 of us turned up. If you understand what our lives are really like then you would know that for some of us to cross postcodes and go to Tottenham was very risky. Out of the 200 of us we were university students, disabled, gang members we all go to the youth centers and enjoy it together, but even though some of us knew the postcode wars risk we were prepared to go. The gangs in the borough all agreed to call a truce that day and in the meeting we came from wood green, northumberland park, broadwater farm, campsbourne all sitting together because we care so much about losing our centres.

A few weeks ago we did a survey and 150 people replied telling us stories of what the youth service has done for them, some of the stories were very deep like one girl spoke about how her boyfriend made her sell her body for sex and the only person she trusted was her youth worker and he helped her get housing. Another girl spoke about how she used to cut herself and she was able to hide it from everyone but the youth worker realised and got her counselling. The disabled children also spoke at the meeting with the CEO and they have no where else to go because the youth workers pick them up and drop them home to go to youth club.

The youth service help young people in many different ways, we get sexual health tests and condoms, we get job vacancies and help applying to college. The youth centres are the only real safe place for us to go, one boy told us about the time he was being chased on tottenham high road by a gang from edmonton and he ran in to the youth club and the youth worker stood in front of him facing the knife risking his own life.
<snip>

I like to think local gov officials are making real sacrifices to their own comfy 9:5 existence & marketing budgets to try to keep these places open but I somehow doubt it...
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby barracuda » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:42 pm

Gotta say, the Brits sure know how to do the riot thing right...

North London youths stormed a McDonald’s and cooked their own burgers and fries.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Harvey wrote:
gnosticheresy_2 wrote:Reports on twitter of police not responding quickly enough, of them standing around waiting while shops burned etc. Now it's kicking of in Enfield, rumblings of stuff happening in Walthamstow. And this is just a small taste of what it's going to be like (FYI Haringey is the London borough where it all kicked off on Saturday):



Are you getting that ------------------------------------------------------------> "Look over there!" feeling?

Murdoch, governement and police corruption, Norway, Navy Seals---------------------------------> Squirrel!

BBC are using the A word. Anarchists!


No. And I'd like to emphasize that No.

The BBC will use any word they think will get the most attention: Anarchist/ SEX/ terrorist are all pretty much interchangeable. If I wanted to read more into this other than the obvious tales of incredibly deprived areas being overlooked for decades due to their proximity to some of the greatest concentrations of wealth on the planet then I'd maybe want to concentrate more on the recent so-called austerity motivated government power grab vs the historical power base of the met and its associated organs i.e. the police deliberately assassinated someone whos death they knew would provoke conflict, then deliberately did fuck all about it to defend their pensions and salaries.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:57 pm

"London looks like a war zone" are the headlines...they should be rioting over the Blair-Brown-Cameron government turning their city into a totalitarian Orwellian state and going along with all of America's wars

The UK are the "polite" fascists...America will bomb the crap out of your village...the UK will too, but say "pardon me, dear sir"
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:04 pm

8bitagent wrote:"London looks like a war zone" are the headlines...they should be rioting over the Blair-Brown-Cameron government turning their city into a totalitarian Orwellian state and going along with all of America's wars

The UK are the "polite" fascists...America will bomb the crap out of your village...the UK will too, but say "pardon me, dear sir"


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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby semper occultus » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:06 pm

^^
looks more like the bit at the end of Lord of the Rings...

Image
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Harvey » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:14 pm

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:the police deliberately assassinated someone whos death they knew would provoke conflict, then deliberately did fuck all about it to defend their pensions and salaries.


That's what I was wondering.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
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Is just to love
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In return"


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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Avalon » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:30 pm

Harvey wrote:
Avalon wrote:Any relation to the curious death of Jeremiah Duggan?


Unrelated. Mark Duggan was black, father of four.


Perhaps seemingly unrelated is a better answer at this stage. Duggan's not a classic Jewish surname either.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby kenoma » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:24 pm

Nick Clegg warns of riots if Tories are elected (11Apr10):

Expectation calibration and expectation management is essential at home and internationally. - Obama foreign policy advisor Samantha Power, February 21, 2008
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