Mark Duggan Shooting

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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:33 am

blanc wrote:Well, that was pretty racist wasn't it? Intentionally or not he seemed to say thuggery equals black culture, we have white thuggery too because they've adopted black culture. Stupid.


He's a Tory, you know.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:39 am

blanc wrote:Well, that was pretty racist wasn't it? Intentionally or not he seemed to say thuggery equals black culture, we have white thuggery too because they've adopted black culture. Stupid.


That fuckhead Andrew Bolt has been saying the same thing since this started.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby AhabsOtherLeg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:17 am

Ach, Starkey's a shite historian anyway, much mocked in academic circles, so he has no choice but to live this feeble half-life as a rentable wind-up merchant. Most of his stuff is no better than letters to the Telegraph, which even Telegraph readers are supposed to laugh at. Ignore him and he dissipates. Dat mandem got no rispeck for hisself, and not for nobody, not even hoodgirls in dare own yard. Yeah? Doesn't no nuffink.

blanc wrote:Well, that was pretty racist wasn't it? Intentionally or not he seemed to say thuggery equals black culture, we have white thuggery too because they've adopted black culture. Stupid.


It's intentional. But Starkey'll say pretty much anything for attention. No real historian could be ignorant of the fact that London has been wracked by riots and disorder since it's inception as a large human settlement - like every other big city. I'd ask him how many black people there were in London during the Gin Craze, but he'd probably just call me a drunken jock and run away giggling. He only ever gets past stereotypes when talking about royalty.

Hey, Searcher08, I hadn't watched your Alan Sugar vid before posting in the thread. Wish I had, it's a classic. Thanks for that. Cheered me up. :lol:

For me, this was perhaps the most iconic image of the riots:

Image
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Searcher08 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:38 am

kenoma wrote:and may she die the most gruesome death of God's invention.
And please do go fuck yourself you stupid Thatcherite cunt. If you're proud of her legacy, take upon your head the needless murders of hundreds of Argentinian seamen.


I didnt realise that you were also a qualified military strategist. Have you ever been on a naval vessel?

I love how you go from your fist-poundingly righteous revenege of torturing Thatcher in one line to appalled oaths about sinking the Belgrano. Reminds me of the Romantic Ireland vision of shits like Rory O Brady. Racist patronisng, self aggrandising shits the lot of them.

Your knowledge of the Falklands conflict is as extensive as your logic.
What were you doing during it? Sitting in Dublin nursing a Bass and shaking a tiny fist at Thatch on the telly?

kenoma wrote:Image

Take responsibility for the 10 Irish Hunger Strikers Thatcher let die.

Image

Image



No, the people who are responsible for the deaths of the Hunger Strikers are the Hunger Strikers. The only people preventing them from eating were themselves and the fascist parasitic sick money-drven PIRA scum around them, themselves.

kenoma wrote:And the decimated lives of tens of thousands of English and Welsh miners who curse her name daily.

Image



Thatch in that role was Prefect for Capitalism. You are treating her like the source of it. Utter utter bollocks. The most useless SWP-esque drivel.

Finance Capital was behind the decision to break the miners - Lazard Freres. Thatch was just up for a fight and the steelworkers bottled.

kenoma wrote:And the 3 million unemployed in cities she destroyed like Coventry, Glasgow, Bradford, Sheffield.

Image

And go fuck yourself if you think those newsagents you applaud weren't left in a state of horrible, irrevocable debt by the
viciously pro-banker policies she intiated.



I love how you glide like a hostess from supporting murdering fascist PIRA scum
to being the Patron Saint of Newsagents.

Save your outrage for the bankers. You are like someone blaming the club bouncer for the debilitating effects of the casino.

kenoma wrote:Image

You're a Thatcherite shit, SO.


<My own offensive remarks removed on reflection as adding no value>>
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby semper occultus » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:18 pm

kenoma wrote:....embarrassing, mouth-frothing rant...

Oh I see, bit of a fan of the ole’ nail-bombing knee-cappers in the H blocks are ye….so I can see a bit of murder & arson on the Mainland must be going down a treat…..

I’m no Thatcherite but if taking the side of the little guys who get up early every day & graft honestly to support their families against hooded “gangstas” out to smash & burn everything they’ve worked for makes me one then so be it & you can respectfully stuff that a very long way up your pipe & light the blue touch-paper.

France never implemented Thatcherism – doesn’t seem to have prevented the Parisian banlieues from rioting has it ?

Also too funny to see how many left-wingers like Livingstone were out weeping big girly tears over the “Malvinas” & so pig-sick she destroyed the junta run by a military dictator who was operating death-squads during the Dirty War : www.gwu.edu….guess that makes you, to adopt your spittle-flecked rhetorical style, “a fascist-supporting cunt” eh ? :wink
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:10 am

Searcher08 wrote:I didnt realise that you were also a qualified military strategist. Have you ever been on a naval vessel?


Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby blanc » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:12 am

When did thatcher change accents from what presumably was the norm for a Grantham child to toffier than thou does anyone know?
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:42 am

blanc wrote:When did thatcher change accents from what presumably was the norm for a Grantham child to toffier than thou does anyone know?


Grantham. Less than twenty miles from where I am now. Never been there, so I don't know what they sound like. She always seems to have spoken the same sort of way since her earliest appearances. You do get posh people everywhere, I believe, who all speak about the same. The rich are like gypsies, they don't have any identity with particular regions, but have their own little culture with their own absurd voices.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby semper occultus » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:59 am

^^

true - she had poshed-up fairly early on - parents prob. paid for elocution lessons or came as standard at grammar school

later when being groomed to replace Heath she underwent the famous Sir Tim Bell re-fit & make-over with the dental work, armour-plated coiffeure & the thing where she lowers her voice & talks..much..slower...like Nanny addressing the special-needs kindergarten.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:16 am

Stephen Morgan wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:I didnt realise that you were also a qualified military strategist. Have you ever been on a naval vessel?




From a military strategy point of view, sinking the Belgrano was absolutely the right thing to do. The woman is totally missing the point. The only thing she is 'owning' is a lack of strategic insight.

It made no difference which direction it was going in - as the Argentine military said, the whole of the South Atlantic by that time seen as a theatre of operations. The Royal Navy were extremely concerned about the safety of Ascension Island
The Belgrano would have been taken out if it was heading to Antarctica. It had the effect of sending the Argentine Navy back to base.

Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s, wrote in a letter to La Nación, published in the 2 May 2005 edition,[23] that the Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, that it was holding off for tactical reasons, and that being outside of the exclusion zone was unimportant as it was a warship on tactical mission. This is the official position of the Argentine Navy.[24]
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby blanc » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:00 pm

I seem to recall that the Falklands war was according to some commentators provoked by the withdrawal of forces in that area, due to cuts, and that it was politically fortuitous for Thatcher at that time in boosting her popularity.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Searcher08 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:53 pm

blanc wrote:I seem to recall that the Falklands war was according to some commentators provoked by the withdrawal of forces in that area, due to cuts, and that it was politically fortuitous for Thatcher at that time in boosting her popularity.


Both Thatcher and the Junta in Argentina made political capital out of it, but the Foreign Secretary Lord Carrington resigned - a lot of people were blindsided by it in the UK. The war was a pretty intense time - I was working with British Aerospace on ship protection systems. The Argentine AirForce pilots were awe-inspiringly brave. Imagine reading online at their memorial site the letters to their mothers and families, left at base in case they didnt return, seeing pictures of children who would grow up without a father. Yet if we did not everything we could have (wargaming/simulation etc), RN ships would have been turned into fireballs. Some were.

Curiously, one big supporter of Argentina during the conflict was Israel, which says something..

The positive thing that happened was the Argentine people turned against the yoke of military dictatorship.

SORRY - I didnt mean for epic thread drift!
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:31 pm

Searcher08 wrote:
Stephen Morgan wrote:
Searcher08 wrote:I didnt realise that you were also a qualified military strategist. Have you ever been on a naval vessel?




From a military strategy point of view, sinking the Belgrano was absolutely the right thing to do. The woman is totally missing the point. The only thing she is 'owning' is a lack of strategic insight.


She's pointing out relevant facts, that the ship was obsolete, heavily crewed and both outside the engagement area specified by the RN and heading further away. It was about as much of a target for proper military action as HMS Belfast.

It made no difference which direction it was going in - as the Argentine military said, the whole of the South Atlantic by that time seen as a theatre of operations. The Royal Navy were extremely concerned about the safety of Ascension Island
The Belgrano would have been taken out if it was heading to Antarctica. It had the effect of sending the Argentine Navy back to base.


The Argentine navy never really did much throughout the war.

Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s, wrote in a letter to La Nación, published in the 2 May 2005 edition,[23] that the Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, that it was holding off for tactical reasons, and that being outside of the exclusion zone was unimportant as it was a warship on tactical mission. This is the official position of the Argentine Navy.[24]


Yes, the official position of the Argentine navy is that they were neither woefully incompetent nor pathetically obsolete. And the position of Osama bin Laden is that he reached out from his cave and swatted down the twin towers. It's a claim, not an admission.
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:34 pm

blanc wrote:I seem to recall that the Falklands war was according to some commentators provoked by the withdrawal of forces in that area, due to cuts, and that it was politically fortuitous for Thatcher at that time in boosting her popularity.


Yes, her defence cuts were supposed to get rid of the aircraft carriers, in fact one had to be got back from the scrap metal dealers, the other was soon to follow. Through-deck cruisers, if you prefer. Needed all her resources to fight the real enemy, her own countrymen. Changed her mind when she realised national defence can be a PR boost.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: Mark Duggan Shooting

Postby wintler2 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:23 pm

[lost post come home]

The Daily Mailalleges via headline 'Rock Throwing Girl' while citing only the Guardian reportthat is much less definite:
Laurence Bailey, who was in a nearby church, described seeing the girl throw a leaflet and what may have been a stone at police.

Bailey said the girl was then "pounded by 15 riot shields". "She went down on the floor but once she managed to get up she was hit again before being half-dragged away by her friend," he said.
[/quote]
Anybody seen footage of Ms Bailey?

&

has this been posted?
'16 Year Old Girl Beaten By Police Sparks London Riots Violence' / alexhiggins732
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXVfdsHm ... ntrinter=1
It doesn't show much, or what happened before the cops attacked her, but nothing excuses what it looked like they were doing.
I wonder how she is doing now... surely some journo has wondered same.
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