A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby elfismiles » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:59 am

My Dad's been trying to find a single commercially available appliance that can interface with these smart meters to take advantage of these capabilities and so far he's not found any. It's all vaporware at the moment.

And I love the idea of "biofeedback" style conservation ... if only they weren't making this shit mandatory I might be more agreeable to it.

wintler2 wrote:
Smart meters, dumb response
Kevin Drum, Political Animal (Washington Monthly)
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 011790.php

Yeah, I'm willing to deliver it for free too. In fact, I just did. But I don't expect that this post will really have much impact on my readers' electricity use. Conversely, a colorful LCD display in your home that showed you, in real time, how much electricity you were using and how much it cost, would almost certainly change your habits over time.

The way the system works is fairly simple: your old meter gets replaced by a nifty new SmartConnect meter, which then connects wirelessly to a display inside your home. It can also connect wirelessly to compatible appliances in your home and you can, if you want, program the unit to automatically turn certain appliances off if the price of electricity goes over a certain level. I haven't seen what the actual indoor meters look like, but you can get an idea here.


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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby Nordic » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:29 am

Wintler2 can be a bit rude, but when it comes to people screaming out unsubstantiated hysteria about power companies knowing when women are using their vibrators, I find his rudeness to be highly appropriate.

Such a claim displays a ridiculous display of ignorance.

Some of us would like this place to not be overrun with conspira-porn.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby wintler2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:48 am

elfismiles wrote:My Dad's been trying to find a single commercially available appliance that can interface with these smart meters to take advantage of these capabilities and so far he's not found any. It's all vaporware at the moment.

That must be frustrating for him, but also a great opportunity to notice that reality is not as advertised by Wired/SciAm etc.

And I love the idea of "biofeedback" style conservation ... if only they weren't making this shit mandatory I might be more agreeable to it.

Same. if smart meters simply get the damn data visible indoors so we can choose whether/how to react, i'd consider that a great leap. Imagine: meter tells you ConEdison is short of 'leccy? Quick, put on the toaster and crash the fuckers!
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby eyeno » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:06 am

Nordic wrote:Wintler2 can be a bit rude, but when it comes to people screaming out unsubstantiated hysteria about power companies knowing when women are using their vibrators, I find his rudeness to be highly appropriate.

Such a claim displays a ridiculous display of ignorance.

Some of us would like this place to not be overrun with conspira-porn.



Your lack of research is showing. A vibrator gives off a very distinct frequency signature, as do other appliances. I have spent a few hours reading on this topic. How many hours have you spent? With a smart grid, fully operational, they will be able to track your every move in your home in real time if those moves involve the use of power of any kind. I think you need a bit more research because it appears as if you have not studied how this system will work.
Last edited by eyeno on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:23 am

What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby crikkett » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:28 am

eyeno wrote:Your lack of research is showing. A vibrator gives off a very distinct frequency signature, as do other appliances. I have spent a couple of dozen hours reading on this topic. How many hours have you spent? With a smart grid, fully operational, they will be able to track your every move in your home in real time if those moves involve the use of power of any kind. I think you need a bit more research because it appears as if you have not studied how this system will work.


It's a good thing I put a faraday cage around my bed.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby eyeno » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:29 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.


The smart grid can read the frequency signatures of devices in the home and identify the devices. Pretty simple actually. I'm not talking about a cordless vibrator. Vibrators with cords. It can also detect a hair dryer, etc...

So by looking at this information they can do a decent job of reconstructing your habits from looking at your electrical history.
Last edited by eyeno on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby norton ash » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:33 am

Could they tell a vibrator from a nose-hair trimmer or an electric toothbrush?

I don't want Hydro One sending a bill saying 'Pay up, wanker. We know what you're doing.'
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby eyeno » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:34 am

Could they tell a vibrator from a nose-hair trimmer or an electric toothbrush?



I don't know. If the motors and internal power supplies are different between devices maybe so.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:49 am

eyeno wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.


The smart grid can read the frequency signatures of devices in the home and identify the devices. Pretty simple actually. I'm not talking about a cordless vibrator. Vibrators with cords. It can also detect a hair dryer, etc...

So by looking at this information they can do a decent job of reconstructing your habits from looking at your electrical history.


eyeno, could you please link to your source for this claim?
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby gnosticheresy_2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:55 am

eyeno wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.


The smart grid can read the frequency signatures of devices in the home and identify the devices. Pretty simple actually. I'm not talking about a cordless vibrator. Vibrators with cords. It can also detect a hair dryer, etc...

So by looking at this information they can do a decent job of reconstructing your habits from looking at your electrical history.


The "frequency signature"? Wouldn't everything just be at 50 Hz, because that's the frequency that electricity is transmitted at (at least in the UK, don't know about elsewhere)?
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby eyeno » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:58 am

Bruce Dazzling wrote:
eyeno wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.


The smart grid can read the frequency signatures of devices in the home and identify the devices. Pretty simple actually. I'm not talking about a cordless vibrator. Vibrators with cords. It can also detect a hair dryer, etc...

So by looking at this information they can do a decent job of reconstructing your habits from looking at your electrical history.


eyeno, could you please link to your source for this claim?



I will if I can find it again.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby eyeno » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:59 am

gnosticheresy_2 wrote:
eyeno wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.


The smart grid can read the frequency signatures of devices in the home and identify the devices. Pretty simple actually. I'm not talking about a cordless vibrator. Vibrators with cords. It can also detect a hair dryer, etc...

So by looking at this information they can do a decent job of reconstructing your habits from looking at your electrical history.


The "frequency signature"? Wouldn't everything just be at 50 Hz, because that's the frequency that electricity is transmitted at (at least in the UK, don't know about elsewhere)?



"Frequency signature" may be a poor choice of words on my part, or maybe not. I watched a long lengthy video on this a while back that had lots of good information. I'll see if I can find it again.

I don't profess to be an expert on this topic. It is also possible that some of the things I have read could be misleading. But that is why I started this thread. I figure sooner or later the thread will show what the grid is capable of doing.
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby hanshan » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:37 am

...

crikkett wrote:
eyeno wrote:Your lack of research is showing. A vibrator gives off a very distinct frequency signature, as do other appliances. I have spent a couple of dozen hours reading on this topic. How many hours have you spent? With a smart grid, fully operational, they will be able to track your every move in your home in real time if those moves involve the use of power of any kind. I think you need a bit more research because it appears as if you have not studied how this system will work.


It's a good thing I put a faraday cage around my bed.


:rofl:

norton ash wrote:Could they tell a vibrator from a nose-hair trimmer or an electric toothbrush?

I don't want Hydro One sending a bill saying 'Pay up, wanker. We know what you're doing.'


Indeed.


eyeno wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:What?

How does a smart meter read the frequency signature of a vibrator? So many pithy answers come to mind... Also. Vibrators aren't attached to mains power are they? I'd be shocked if they were. (Well I probably wouldn't but anyway.)

So how does a smart meter have anything to do with them.


Not unless you want industrial strength release.


eyeno wrote:The smart grid can read the frequency signatures of devices in the home and identify the devices. Pretty simple actually. I'm not talking about a cordless vibrator. Vibrators with cords. It can also detect a hair dryer, etc...

So by looking at this information they can do a decent job of reconstructing your habits from looking at your electrical history.



Image

...
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Re: A Thread About Smart Meters And Smart Electricity Grid

Postby Burnt Hill » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:58 am

We had new meters installed a few years ago by NYSEG (upstate NY).
I dont know if it is a "smart" meter though. How can I tell?
I do know that the wiring in this old house is so messed up that I am beyond being spied on.

As to the subthread. I like eyenos posts. I wouldnt call it conspir-a-porn, and things get hashed out here really well anyway.
I like wintlers posts also, much stronger and hurtful sarcasm has passed through here unnoticed.
But how can 82 criticise someone when he himself has repeatedly tried to legitimize his own profanities?
The apparent chip on 82s shoulder has out weighed his common sense.
Which is sad because his strength was that of coming across as a common man.
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