Global Warming, eh?

[wintler2]

Here is the go to guy on environmental policy for Aus. ..Ross Garnaut..

You think so? Based on what? Have you ever been to Australia? PM (war-criminal) Howard hired Garnaut to "study the problem" (do nothing), Rudd kept him around i think for appearance of bipartisanship, Gillard sensibly binned him after the Mad Monk knifed Turnbull and kill ETS mark1. He's an economist, his day job is to invent rationalisations for what the rich folks want to do anyway. I thought our go-to guy on env. policy was Ken Oathcarn on channel mine, lol.

I applaud your highlighting Garnauts hypocrisy and BHPs ecocide on the Fly River in PNG, but the closest Garnaut came to influencing policy was in the ETS1 that never got up. The ETS we have is a pretty different beast, with many of the corporate give-aways trimmed, thanks to the Greens in Senate and the 3 country Independants in House of Reps. So much for all powerful elites.


on edit: there are of course very real and powerful (but not all-powerful) elites, all seemingly batting for the AGW-denial side, yes its that video again ...

[Sounder]

The ETS we have is a pretty different beast, with many of the corporate give-aways trimmed, thanks to the Greens in Senate and the 3 country Independants in House of Reps. So much for all powerful elites.

That is good and encouraging. Tis true I know nothing about Ausse. politics, but over here, I think it is safe to say that the general public does not feel it has any influence in the least as to determining what the govt. intends to do.

Instead decision making influence seem to reside with oath taking proponents of popish power. But that is another thread and I sure don't want to sidetrack this 'important' discussion.

[wintler2]

You might be interested in this (pdf) by permaculture co-founder Dave Holmgren, provides a damning crit from green perspective on monetising carbon pollution (see pg15).

[Sounder]

That is a great paper wintler2, thank you so much, it seems to be well worth a close read.

[Iamwhomiam]

Honestly Sounder, this is on so many levels just so wrong of you to say:

"But really, where are the exotic energy arguments here, what a pedantic prig and wannabe cop you are."

And after my honestly answered questions to you early on in this thread, about the dangers posed by Fukushima, this is what you choose to respond to?

You started a thread on exotic energy development and my suggestion was an effort for you to not derail this thread, that's all and nothing more. I haven't checked it yet, so I don't know as of this writing whether you've offered a reply to my last posting there.

For one who's called for an end to name-calling, you sure aren't living up to your own expectations from others.

[Sounder]

"But really, where are the exotic energy arguments here, what a pedantic prig and wannabe cop you are."

Show me the exotic energy argument that I used to invade this thread with. That would shut me up, otherwise spare me the; I can't imagine how you could be so rude to me routine.

Honest Iamwhomiam I have no need for bad feelings, however when people mess with me I generally make sure that it is not just another walk in the park.

Try to not talk down to me, as I do not react well to that.

[Iamwhomiam]

^^^^
I don't believe I said you had, but slim had here

What I said was : "Slimmouse & Sounder, please keep your exotic energy arguments from polluting this thread, they're off topic here."

"You started a thread on exotic energy development and my suggestion was an effort for you to not derail this thread, that's all and nothing more."

Asking you not to do something is a bit different than claiming you had done something.

It would be nice if you addressed any of the points I've raised in my postings and recognized my answers to your questions at least in some small way.

I note that you have not answered any that I've put directly to you.

[Burnt Hill]

Asking you not to do something is a bit different than claiming you had done something.

Fail.
Of course asking someone not to do something implies they have, or will do such a thing.
You are smarter than that.

[Burnt Hill]

Extreme summer temperatures occur more frequently

http://click.mail.advantagebusinessmedia.com/?qs=06fb71c965e7db0ea153d14a6f5ddb4e07dcd38eb29c0e74bad3303f8cf5b73a

"The observed increase in the frequency of previously rare summertime-average temperatures is more consistent with the consequences of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations than with the effects of natural climate variability," said Duffy, who is the lead author of a report in Climatic Change. "It is extremely unlikely that the observed increase has happened through chance alone."

[Burnt Hill]

From the same site I linked to in my last post.

http://www.rdmag.com/News/FeedsAP/2012/02/manufacturing-leaks-show-us-groups-climate-efforts/

Leaked documents from a prominent U.S. conservative think tank show how it sought to teach schoolchildren skepticism about global warming and planned other behind-the-scenes tactics using millions of dollars in donations from big corporate names.

[Iamwhomiam]

Burnt Hill wrote:
Fail.
Of course asking someone not to do something implies they have, or will do such a thing.
You are smarter than that.

Exactly! You too, BH.^^^

The Heartland Institute scandal has its own thread BH, here.

[justdrew]

I don't quite see the point in questioning this even, surely rebuilding our infrastructure to a decentralized "green" "sustainable" model is a great thing to do, hard to implement and get going, but I don't see any drawbacks. Less pollution all around, lots of work for real people, building things, and the money to do it can come directly OUT of the FIRE economy. What's the down-side?

(I still think man made CO2 emissions are causing global climate changes, but... that's not the only possible source of changes)

[Iamwhomiam]

justdrew, I'm not quite sure what you mean by the 'FIRE' economy, but there doesn't seem to be any downside at all to more rapidly incorporate changes needed to transition to a sustainable future. I believe a reallocation or rather a redirection of funds should be attempted, that is, directed away from our military-industrial complex of industries and to homeowners and small governments for installing roof-top or 'backyard' solar collectors for electrical generation and to augment hot water heating for bathing and home heating. Combined with small-scale geothermal, just these would greatly reduce CO2 output. Bring in micro-hydro electrical generation wherever possible, especially in high-rise structures. Super insulate older structures. Green roofs and walls aid in insulating and cooling, and rooftop and community gardens minimize transporting veggies. True indoor permaculture facilities could be built in neighborhoods; aqua-culture and hydroponically grown crops, minimize contamination with closed loop watering and water purification.

Solar installations (at last) are increasing rapidly.

CO2 is contributing to the warming of our atmosphere and the increasing acidification of our oceans. Carbon Black, (soot) too, plays no small roll in warming our atmosphere and quickens the melting of snow and ice the world over.

Some time ago, earlier in this thread, I mentioned the melting of Polar ice being brought about by atmospheric warming. Deniers & eyeno felt the melting polar ice would not raise the sea level around he world, but they simply focused upon icebergs and not the ice covering the majority of this large continent, which is 1.3 times the size of Europe.

98% of Antarctica's 5,400,000 sq miles is covered by more than 1 mile of ice. That's 5,300,000 cubic miles of ice. As those of you following the Lake Vostok story should know, there are many places on Antarctica where the ice is more than 2 miles thick. If all of the ice covering Antarctica were to melt all of our oceans would rise by 200 feet or 61 meters.

If all of the ice in Greenland were to melt, our oceans would rise 20 feet or 7 meters, and this is more likely than all of the ice in Antarctica melting. But because our oceans are warming, they are expanding, and this too is an additional risk that will threaten the low lying coastal populations.

Regardless of why the earth is warming, we know man contributes some to its warming. Shouldn't we do whatever is within our power to reduce our contribution and our pollution? I think we should.

[eyeno]

So much dialogue, about so much, maybe about so little, depends on which page you be on I suppose, and on which team...oh shit here be. The best be at the end.

I'll say little, and i'll say much, depends on your mirror, so be.......


The dichotomy of word play is so under understood that is stupifies the conversation which is why this conversation drives me batty.

"This' conversation is totally avoided, but...ya know, come on, I think RI is up to it. I think it is time that RI recognizes the possibilities of the conversation.

1. Greenhouse Gas: Too many humans upon the earth, breathing out CO2 to satisfy the Techno-Oligarchs of the planet. Techlonogy has hit a point upon which human labor is not needed. Too many breathers, belching out too much CO2, and not providing anything (labor) back into the system. (not to mention the methane "farts")

and, without question true, and a passion of mine...

2. Greenhouse Gas: Coal fired plants, chemical plants, upon others, are belching out untold amount of pollution in the atmosphere that is without doubt polluting the atmosphere and causing much harm to humanity. Nobody doubts this and there is no debate about it.

Sum: Who gives a fuck?

I do for one. I hate all this petroleum coal fired bullshit. I hate all the fracking in my water I have to drink.

1. Humanity gives a fuck. Us that has to live in it certainly gives a fuck. We don't want to breathe this shit nor live in it. We don't want to drink this water.

Who don't give a fuck?

2. Those that are immune. They don't give a fuck. They can filter their water, and ohhhh guess what else?....they don't eat genetically modified food. Who knew?


There are two camps here. Those that speak of the "environment" as in the clouds in the sky, and those that understand this is a debate about population density.

Who knew huh?

Global warming is about too many warm bodies upon the earth. Too many animals breathing out CO2 to suit the Techno Oligarchs.


I give RI props for being the smartest community on the internets, but somehow, RI has not grabbed up on this one.


Chemical pollution is a SIRIUS PROBLEM and we are all dying from it. Chemical pollution, radiation poisoning, air pollution, you name it, we are dying from it. The human race is dying.

By design or accident?

Well, you "name" it but it is happening.

This forum is capable of higher discourse. Some will of course "un-name" it though.

We are in the Kondtratiev Winter, (look it up) which is of course Warming.

Everything has an opposite in the the reflection of Narcissus. As above so below. So do I see my beauty from above so does my reflection below go UN-NOTICED.

My moon is behind my head which is my light.

My Sun is in front of me which is my darkness. My Winter is before me which is my heat. My Summer is before me which is my coolness. My Autumn is my Fall with which I pick up my blessings. My stony path is my smooth glide. When I look out I see in. When I look in I see out. When I jump in the water I am dry. When I am dehydrated I am soaked. When I am blinded I am in the dark. When I am in the dark I am blinded by light. When I drown I flounder on the beach. When I flounder on the beach I drown. When I burn in the Sun I freeze. When I freeze I burn in the Sun.

Everything squared. X 2 Wintler 2 opposite of itself. A mirror reflection. Somebody had to do it.

My gut is sick of it.

There are other "2"s around here, take note. They don't all have 2's in their name but squared they be.

Better late than never though huh? Somebody had to do it. May as well be me...........Namaste, kudos, and love to those that read between the 2's. My love you be...

Tearing the fabric out of a society is the name of the game, know it, see it. Period.

ICE squared has no purpose except upon itself, you get it don't you?

What was upon the beach of Katrina most delayed? It was ICE. And it was labeled NOMO. (law) How much more guide you need I cannot provide.

Who deals with immigrants? It be ICE. Study students. Study. You be an ice cube, though you know it not. You can be chilled by the heat, of the winter. Say not much, not too much warmth, or it may be chilled by the heat of the Sun.

Winter 2 is Winter Heat.............sorry dude... but damn..........you blew it.

Its Winter, and the heat is on

[tazmic]

Extreme summer temperatures occur more frequently

http://click.mail.advantagebusinessmedia.com/?qs=06fb71c965e7db0ea153d14a6f5ddb4e07dcd38eb29c0e74bad3303f8cf5b73a

"The observed increase in the frequency of previously rare summertime-average temperatures is more consistent with the consequences of increasing greenhouse gas concentrations than with the effects of natural climate variability," said Duffy, who is the lead author of a report in Climatic Change. "It is extremely unlikely that the observed increase has happened through chance alone."

16 different models correlating the increase in the frequency of previously rare summertime-average temperatures with the global increase of bad music would lead to the same 'results' and 'conclusions' that Duffy has outlined here.

I particularly like "This supports the conclusion that extreme summertime temperatures [already observed to occur more frequently] are already occurring more frequently." Why does Duffy need a model to confirm 'observations'?

So, it's not happening by chance. Good to know. Not very helpful.

Their sponsors must be disappointed:

Changing Horizons Fund of the Rockefeller Family Fund
Flora Family Foundation
Foundation for Environmental Research
Google.org
Island Foundation
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
NASA Headquarters
NASA Langley
National Institutes of Health via Johns Hopkins University
National Science Foundation via Columbia University
National Science Foundation via George Mason University
NOAA CICS (Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites) via North Carolina State University
Northrup Grumman
Peter T Paul Foundation
Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation via Pepperwood Preserve

Rockefeller Brothers Fund
Saul D Levy Foundation
The David & Lucille Packard Foundation
The Dixon Family Fund
The Robert & Ellen Gutenstein Foundation
The Schmidt Family Foundation
Town Creek Foundation
Turner Foundation, Inc.
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
U.S. Bureau of Reclamation
U.S. Department of Energy
University of Tennessee
The Winslow Foundation
The World Bank via The Nature Conservancy