Global Warming, eh?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby brainpanhandler » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:58 pm

:popcorn:
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
User avatar
brainpanhandler
 
Posts: 5052
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby eyeno » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:37 pm

wintler2 wrote:

Those sources provide evidence it is. [url=http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/wa/perth.shtml]Hottest year ever in my home town[url], 32C there right now at 9pm local time, i'm on other side of continent and its 28C at 11pm.
Do you have evidence that you are able to provide and discuss that suggests otherwise?



I find this interesting. Some probably remember that some airports in the southern United States had to shift their runway operations because seemingly the magnetic fields had changed in the area. Around the same time many people around the world were reporting strange behavior of their compasses. Now the USDA has issued new planting maps. Dutch has an interesting theory on it. Dutch has an interesting video below.

wintler2 may throw me in the gulag for evil deniers for posting this but i'm always willing to explore the strange and weird.




Image

Janice Lloyd, USA TODAY Staff

Camelias, a New Orleans trademark, staking out in North Carolina and higher latitudes?

It’s true, gardening experts say, and expect similar oddities to represent the new norm.

It is now safe to plant new species in many parts of the nation, according to a new government map released Wednesday showing new growing guidelines for the first time in decades. A gradual northward warming trend makes it possible to plant trees and other perennials that would have perished in colder zones.

The “hardiness” zones, the gospel to the the nation’s 82 million gardeners that are printed on the back of seed packs and catalogs, are based on average minimum temperatures.

“It is a good thing the government has updated the map,” says Woodrow Nelson, director of marketing communications for the Arbor Day Foundation. “Our members have been noticing these climate changes for years and have been successfully growing new kinds of trees in places they wouldn’t grow before.”

For example, Pennsylvania’s growing zone was considered risky for Southern Magnolias, according to the old government map dating to 1990. But the new map, based on updated weather statistics from 1996 to 2005, puts Pennsylvania, like much of the Northeast, in a warmer growing zone.

Catherine Woteki, an undersecretary of the Department of Agriculture, which issued the new guidelines, cautioned against reading too much into the changes. “We do not think the plant hardiness zone methodology is appropriate for making comments on climate change,” she says.

Might gardeners being going out on a limb? Steve Carroll, director of public programs at the State Arboretum in Virginia, advises gardeners to check with their local nurseries or a university extension program for advice.

“There’s definitely a changing climate,” says Charlie Nardozzi, a gardening consultant in northern Vermont. “But that doesn’t mean we won’t have a harsh winter again that could kill all their plants.”

Check out the interactive map: USDA Interactive Map
http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZM ... veMap.aspx





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTa6hBVX ... r_embedded
User avatar
eyeno
 
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:22 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby Elihu » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:11 pm



"Marge and Homer, not really enthusiastic about getting on the bus,
are pushed on by the crowd of Springfield elite. Trent, not sensing
their reluctance, tells them they're going on a trip to save a stand of
redwoods. Homer screams and pulls on an Emergency Exit handle. Marge
shouts out the window at Ed Begley, Jr.

Marge: Aren't you coming, Ed?
Begley: I prefer a vehicle that doesn't hurt Mother Earth. It's a go-
cart, powered by my own sense of self-satisfaction.
[Begley attaches a wired-helmet to his head and quickly
drives off]"
Last edited by Elihu on Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stupid Evil vs Regular Evil....
Don't know who to root for in that war.
vince :
Elihu
 
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:48 pm

eyeno wrote:I find this interesting. Some probably remember that some airports in the southern United States had to shift their runway operations because seemingly the magnetic fields had changed in the area. Around the same time many people around the world were reporting strange behavior of their compasses. Now the USDA has issued new planting maps. ...


Temperature and magnetic fields are quite different things. The current historically extreme rate of change in mean temperature has a very well known cause, nothing especially to do with magnetic fields.
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:49 pm

brainpanhandler wrote::popcorn:

lol. 'what do we live for but to make sport for our neighbours and laugh at them in our turn.'J.Austen
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:49 pm

Elihu wrote:cross - quote

Yes, this is exactly about "the survival of our species." As such, this is not a trivial matter, nor is it in any way "irrelevant."
What's more, I can imagine no topic that is of greater consequence.
wintler2 wrote:Its a personal/'religious' thing, but i can: the survial of Life/as many species as possible on this planet. I think that makes me a biotian, but not the brand of scooter.




"Marge and Homer, not really enthusiastic about getting on the bus,
are pushed on by the crowd of Springfield elite. Trent, not sensing
their reluctance, tells them they're going on a trip to save a stand of
redwoods. Homer screams and pulls on an Emergency Exit handle. Marge
shouts out the window at Ed Begley, Jr.

Marge: Aren't you coming, Ed?
Begley: I prefer a vehicle that doesn't hurt Mother Earth. It's a go-
cart, powered by my own sense of self-satisfaction.
[Begley attaches a wired-helmet to his head and quickly
drives off]"


Keep up the personal insults Elihu, helps prove you got nothing else.
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:54 pm

publius wrote:And global chemtrails also have an effect on climate; and HAARP also. And war. But our Sun surely has much more impact than humans.



Surely opinions on this matter could be informed by the odd bit of research...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... umans.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... spots.html
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby eyeno » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:56 pm

wintler2 wrote:
Temperature and magnetic fields are quite different things. The current historically extreme rate of change in mean temperature has a very well known cause, nothing especially to do with magnetic fields.



They are different things but very much correlated. The earth is like a big magnet in a way. It has south and north poles. Air currents circle the poles like a merry go round. If the poles shift the climate will shift globally with it because the circular pattern of air circulation will shift with it also. If the poles shift it will automatically adjust the climate at the latitudes. I don't see how the poles could shift without affecting the global weather pattern. Its tied together like a grid, and if the grid shifts the climate shifts with it. The equator will shift with a pole shift and move the whole matrix.
Last edited by eyeno on Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
eyeno
 
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:22 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:06 pm

Sounder wrote:Gee, I wonder what will be considered to be the greatest threat life on earth in five or ten years?

Lets ponder, would it be poisoning our environment, including our bodies, through GMO's, glyphosates, growing food in dead soil, constant dumping of industrial waste, fluoride, fracking, all or any of these things--- or CO2

You make the call wintler2, where should 'environmentalists' be spending their time? Should they be writing papers that say we need to tax carbon so that we may avert a future yet assured catastrophe? Good hook for the grant app. that there. 'Give me a little and I will justify your ability to get a whole lot more money, yes we have a winner'.

Or here, consider this option. Lets have environmental scientists study any and all aspects of environment so that we might respect the abode of our being in its essence and totality rather than as an eviscerated empty form that only serves to provide the illusion of righteousness.

I remain yours truly, suitably to be ignored

Am not aware that i'd ever ignored you, or that that might cause offence. And I'm really not sure what your point is above - if its that there are many other signs apart from anthropogenic global warming that show all is not well with our life support system, then i agree. If you feel that eg. depleted uranium munitions are a bigger threat to what matters to you than AGW, then go work on that issue, all good. But I don't see why other problems means you need to trivialise AGW.
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby Elihu » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:13 pm

Keep up the personal insults Elihu, helps prove you got nothing else.


well help me out here. what am i supposed to believe in? the religion or the science? for me the science is an open question. instead of the wafting odor of co2, i smell collusion, conflict of interest and agenda. these are human traits that transform academic science into commercial science. the academic kind is the only one i will be converted to. the religion? sorry i couldn't resist having a chuckle at your expense. but we're all grown-ups here right?
Stupid Evil vs Regular Evil....
Don't know who to root for in that war.
vince :
Elihu
 
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:18 pm

eyeno wrote:They are different things but very much correlated. The earth is like a big magnet in a way. It has south and north poles.Air currents circle the poles like a merry go round.
Sorta. But i thought the circumpolar winds are a consequence of planets rotation rather than driven in any sense by the magnetic field.

eyeno wrote:If the poles shift the climate will shift globally with it because the circular pattern of air circulation will shift with it also.
If poles shift then i think Earths orientation to sun will gradually shift and so i guess the air currents would shift too.

eyeno wrote: If the poles shift it will automatically adjust the climate at the latitudes. I don't see how the poles could shift without affecting the global weather pattern.
Possibly eventually the climate at latititude X would change, wake me if it ever happens.

eyeno wrote: Its tied together like a grid, and if the grid shifts the climate shifts with it. The equator will shift will a pole shift and move the whole matrix.
Grid? Like humans draw on maps? Now you've lost me.


Putting aside the logic failures so far: Since Earths poles haven't shifted recently, yet the planet is warming and climate is changing, i suggest your proposed climate-pole dynamic is irrelevant to here and now.
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby wintler2 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:22 pm

Elihu wrote:
Keep up the personal insults Elihu, helps prove you got nothing else.


well help me out here. what am i supposed to believe in? the religion or the science? for me the science is an open question. instead of the wafting odor of co2, i smell collusion, conflict of interest and agenda. these are human traits that transform academic science into commercial science. the academic kind is the only one i will be converted to. the religion? sorry i couldn't resist having a chuckle at your expense. but we're all grown-ups here right?


In my world, grownups are willing and able to explain the basis of the beliefs and provide evidence and reasoning, without name-calling. Do feel free to provide some evidence you think supports your beliefs, sometime, anytime (and no, opinion pieces in the WSJ don't count).
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re:

Postby Ben D » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:14 pm

wintler2 wrote:National Geographic 2011 Among Hottest Years, Marked by Extreme Weather

This year is shaping up to be one of the ten hottest years on record, according to a United Nations report announced yesterday.


Sure, but that could mean that it is the tenth coolest year in ten years...:) And btw, I understood that extreme weather is still weather, not climate, and should not be conflated.

The thing is that average global temperature has increased about 0.8 of a degree Celsius since records began in 1880 until now. The skeptical community agree that's about right so there is pretty much a consensus on the amount of warming.

On the other hand, the AGW crowd have produced computer climate models 20 years ago that predict a runaway warming in the 21st century,...and we are now 12 years into it and there are no signs of any accelerated warming. To say that one year or another is the hottest, or the second, third, etc., on record doesn't prove the AGW climate model warming predictions unless the temperature anomaly is tracking the AGW temperature predictions ,...and it's not!

Let's face it, the state of the art in understanding the climate of the planet is far from being complete and trustworthy, it's just a matter of time before this is understood by everyone except the 'flat earthers'.

This is not relevant to the statistical evidence, but does anyone else have an intuitive 'wait a sec' moment,...it doesn't deem reasonable to imagine that this planet Earth, which has been through god knows what over its history, is so inherently unstable that an increase in CO2 (which constitutes just a mere 0.038% of the the planets atmosphere) from a mere 320 to 385 parts per million by volume over the last 40 years (just 2 PPM per year), is sending it into runaway heating?
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Australia
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:31 pm

Just for fun I decided to check out all the signatures to the WSJ piece.
Here's what I came up with (see the links for more) :

Claude Allègre : Geochemist and politician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Allegre

J. Scott Armstrong : Professor of marketing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Scott_Armstrong

Jan L. Breslow : Laboratory of Biochemical Genetics and Metabolism at the Rockefeller University
http://www.rockefeller.edu/research/fac ... nBreslow/#

Dr. Roger Cohen : Retired from Exxon Mobile
http://www.marshall.org/experts.php?id=252

Edward E. David Jr. : Electrical Engineer, Exxon Mobile, 77-85
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_David

William Happer : Optics and Spectroscopy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Happer

Michael Kelly : PhD in solid state physics
http://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/michael-kelly/

William Kininmonth : retired meteorologist and member of Lavoisier Group along with Ian Plimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ki ... ologist%29

Richard Lindzen : Atmospheric physicist and professor of meteorology, MIT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lindzen

Dr. James E. McGrath : Chemist. Worked for Union Carbide 67-75
http://www.files.chem.vt.edu/chem-dept/ ... m?vita.htm

Rodney W. Nichols (from his bio at Atlantic Legal Foundation) :
President and CEO of the New York Academy of Sciences from 1992 to 2001, was previously Scholar-in-Residence at the Carnegie Corporation of New York (1990-1992), and Vice President and Executive Vice President of The Rockefeller University (1970-1990). Earlier he served as an R&D manager in industry and in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.
http://www.atlanticlegal.org/person.php?conid=2433

Burt Rutan :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Rutan

Harrison Schmitt : Astronaut, geologist, senator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_H._Schmitt

Nir Shaviv : Astrophysicist, Hebrew University of Jerusalem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nir_Shaviv

Hendrik Tennekes : Professor of Aeronautical Engineering at Pennsylvania State University, director of research at the Royal Dutch Meteorological Institute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henk_Tennekes

Antonino Zichichi : physcist (nuclear physics).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Zichichi

Quite the bunch of interesting characters. A couple of them even do stuff that's related to the climate for a living :shock:
(Seriously though : Why on earth should I listen to a geologist or a nuclear phycisist when I want to know about the climate? It's like going to the dentist for brain surgery. He's a doctor too! :wallhead: )
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 2975
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Global Warming, eh?

Postby eyeno » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:33 pm

wintler2 wrote:
Sorta. But i thought the circumpolar winds are a consequence of planets rotation rather than driven in any sense by the magnetic field.


I am with you on that one. And the poles designate where the center of the winds are. If you go to this link, choose "number of days" and "interval" and then click "build animation" it will set the circular motion of the winds in motion in a manner that makes the weather patterns around the poles easily visible. (longer the better if your puter can handle it) You can also see the "grid" nature because it shows latitude and longitude.

http://squall.sfsu.edu/scripts/nhemjetstream_model.html



And here the circular nature of the poles influence close up.
http://www.weather.gov/sat_loop.php?image=ir&hours=24

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/west/nepac/loop-avn.html







wintler2 wrote:
Possibly eventually the climate at latititude X would change, wake me if it ever happens.

Grid? Like humans draw on maps? Now you've lost me.


Yep like this, a grid. Latitude and longitude.

Image

Image


Above I posted that the USDA says the planting maps have changed. According to the USDA warmer climates have moved from south to north. Wake up!! (kidding)

In order to move north the warmer climate must move "up" on the grid system if you live in the northern hemisphere and consider the north to be "up". That indicates a change in climate. If the pole shifts, the winds must shift with it. If you move the pole you move the entire "grid", and thus the winds and weather. Like a big marble with a focal point. Focal point being the pole. Move the point and you move global weather.
Image


If you move the pole/focal point the grid has to move with it and I don't see how it could be otherwise. I could be wrong, but planet rotation, magnetic, whatever, move that point and everything moves with it.

Image

Image



If you watched the dutch video he explains it well. Is he correct? I don't know. The evidence is "ancedotal" as they say, when its not peer reviewed by multiple goverment sources, which doesn't stop me from at least considering it, for sure.


Remaining question, if the earth tilts, and the poles change, does that move the magnetic grid lines of the earth with it? Intuitively, with no evidence, I think there would be a compelling case to say maybe probably so because of the earth's relationship to the moon and the cosmos in general shifts. But maybe not because maybe rotation is the only thing that causes the magnetics and the earth's relationship to the cosmos?

Is that possible (justdrew?) Ahem, calling justdrew to the front counter please.
User avatar
eyeno
 
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:22 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Grizzly and 31 guests