The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:49 pm

American Dream has never seen an unsuccessful revolution or an ineffective anti-imperialist struggle he couldn't get fully behind. Three kids lying down on the floor in Detroit - that's the way forward for The Left. (Beautiful-Soul Anarchism.)

It's the successful revolutions and the actual struggles against imperialist thuggery he finds interminally... problematic... [significant ellipsis] The inevitable upshot of this ponderous concern-trollery is that he never has anything concrete to say in support of any country that actually happens to be under US attack. For is Russia not also far-from-perfect...? Are we saying that Cuba is flawless...? Did Yugoslavia actually offer complete freedom to all of its citizens...? Are we saying we support everything Saddam Hussein ever said or did...? Was Ghadaffi's Libya our idea of paradise...? Bad Things happened in all those countries. We are not Bad, so how can we possibly support them when they're under attack?

Besides, nations are inherently evil. Everyone should be fully free.

Therefore, let's keep our souls pristine and watch that juggernaut crush them all. If our consciences ever happen to bother us slightly, we can always go and lie down somewhere. That'll show 'em. And at least we won't have taken sides...
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:02 pm

The thing is, I'm actually completely in sympathy with the anarchist impulse. But so dismally often, anarchists' demands remind me of the title of a play by Simon McBurney's Theatre de Complicité:

MORE BIGGER SNACKS NOW!

Very funny piece of physical theatre. It was about three unemployed men sitting around on a sofa and sometimes lying down on the floor.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Nordic » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:49 pm

American Dream » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:04 am wrote:http://m1aa.org/?p=1346

The Fall of Aleppo

January 13, 2017 by BD, member of First of May Anarchist Alliance – Detroit Collective

Image


The Fall of Aleppo

On January 3, 2017, Syrian refugees, joined by Iraqi refugees and international supporters, marched on the Russian embassy in Thessaloniki, Greece. An article reporting on the march quotes a Syrian refugee as follows:

“They are trying to kill all the flowers in Syria, but they cannot kill the Spring. The Spring is coming. We are here, they cannot kill all the Syrian people.”

(“Syrian refugees in Greece despair over Aleppo,” reported by Marianna Karakoulaki and Dimitiris Tosidis, DW, January 3, 2017 (http//dw.com/p/2vBIT))

The brave people of Aleppo are dispersed or detained or fallen in their thousands. Their city and their homes are destroyed. The dictator, Assad, the butcher of Aleppo, moves to reassert control with the bombs and backing of Putin and the Russian Air Force and with the support of the armed militias of the government of Iran.

The Arab Spring began six years ago in Tunisia. From Tunisia to Egypt to Libya to Syria and beyond the working classes and anti-imperialists and fighters for freedom rose up. They rose up against dictators, against U.S. imperialism and against oppression. The fighting people of the region brought down dictators in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. They inspired people who yearn for freedom throughout the world from the Occupy movements to anti-austerity struggles to the Movement for Black Lives to prisoner struggles and beyond. But now, in Egypt, a new military dictator, Sisi, with the support of U.S. imperialism, is in power. The revolution is in retreat. U.S. imperialism and Russian imperialism and the local capitalists throughout the region attempt to reassert control and maintain control by smashing or diverting the struggles of the working people for freedom.

In Syria, where the people had risen against Assad and had established local formations, Local Coordination Committees, to take control of their lives and their communities, hundreds of thousands are dead and millions are refugees. The people of Syria had Assad on the defensive and retreating, but the Russian imperialists, assisted by the government of Iran, stepped in to “save” the Assad dictatorship and to attack the revolution of the peoples of Syria.

In the region and internationally, revolutionary forces and the working classes are in disarray and under attack. The diaspora of people forced to flee Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan and North Africa and beyond continues. Refugees are in border camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan and fleeing to Europe and in detainment camps in Europe. Thousands are drowned. Reactionary nationalist forces, fascist forces are on the rise in Europe and the United States. The U.S. imperialists, European imperialists, Russian imperialists and the regional powers and local dictators are responsible for this disaster. The Capitalist Class and Capitalism are responsible for this disaster and have worse coming in the future. Working people everywhere, people who yearn for freedom, must organize and fight.

The Arab Spring is in retreat and has suffered terrible defeats, but it is not defeated. The international working class is on the defensive and in disarray, but we are not defeated. “The Spring is coming.”

People of Syria continue to fight and to demonstrate and to struggle against Assad. Working people of all countries must unite to support their struggle. Assad continues in power because of the support of the governments of Russia and Iran. He must be overthrown.

The imperialists from the United States and from Russia must be driven from Syria, from Iraq, from the Middle East and from every country and region where they try to rule or assert their control. The regional powers and authoritarian governments from Iran and Turkey and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States must be driven from Syria, and those governments must be overthrown by the working and oppressed people of those countries and their allies.

The dictators from Assad in Syria to Sisi in Egypt and their imperialist partners would have us believe that there are only two alternatives: rule of the dictators backed by Russian imperialism as in Syria or U.S. imperialism as in Egypt, or the rule and dictatorship of ISIS or other reactionary fundamentalists. This is not true. There is another way: the revolution of the people, the revolution of the working classes, the international revolution against capitalism and imperialism and reaction in all its forms.

The lesson of Egypt is that it is not enough to bring down a government or a dictator; it is not enough to change the regime. Capitalism and the state must be overthrown and replaced by the direct rule and direct control of the working people. There is no other way.

Solidarity shows the way forward. We are not on the ground in Syria; we do not know the country. But the peoples of Syria have the right to determine their own futures, free of Assad and the Russians and the U.S. and the Iranians and Turkey and Saudi Arabia. The peoples of Syria have the right to self determination; as revolutionary anarchists we support that right.

The Kurdish people and others in Rojava also have the right to self determination. We support that right. What is needed now is solidarity among the peoples of Syria, the people of Rojava and among Kurdish people and Arabs and all working and oppressed people. What is needed now is a united fight against Assad and the imperialists and for freedom and self determination, respecting the rights of all the peoples of Syria and the region.

We need solidarity among Syrian refugees, among Iraqi refugees, among all refugees and among their international supporters and the international working classes. We need to open all borders and prepare to dispose of all borders. We need freedom. We need solidarity from the working people of every country in support of all refugees and immigrants and in defense of the refugees and immigrants from fascist, racist and government attacks.

There are political groups in the U.S. and elsewhere who support Assad and Russian imperialism and Iran against the people of Syria, but who claim to stand for working people or against imperialism or for socialism. This is a lie. Any group which supports the dictator Assad and opposes the people of Syria is an enemy of working people everywhere. Some authoritarians claiming to be Marxists and socialists support Assad; they are authoritarians and not revolutionaries. They see a dictator and a revolution to overthrow the dictator, and they side with the dictator. Some other leftists claim confusion and can’t decide.

We stand with the peoples of Syria and Aleppo and Rojava against the Assad dictatorship and all imperialists. We stand with the Syrian refugee at the demonstration in Greece: “… they cannot kill the Spring.”

Image











parel » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:53 am wrote:Syrian Anarchist Challenges the Rebel/Regime Binary View of Resistance
Friday, 06 September 2013 00:00

As the US intensifies its push for military intervention in Syria, virtually the only narrative available swings from the brutal regime of Bashar al-Assad to the role of Islamist elements within the resistance. Further, where dissent with the US position appears, much of it hinges on the contradiction of providing support for Al Qaeda-linked entities seeking to topple the regime, as though they represent the only countervailing force to the existing dictatorship. But as Jay Cassano recently wrote for tech magazine Fast Company, the network of unarmed, democratic resistance to Assad's regime is rich and varied, representing a vast web of local political initiatives, arts-based coalitions, human rights organizations, nonviolence groups and more. (The Syria Nonviolence Movement created an online, interactive map to demonstrate this intricate network of connections.)

Meanwhile, the writing and dispatches of Syrian anarchists have been enormously influential in other Arab struggles, with anarchists tortured to death in Assad's prisons memorialized in the writing of Palestinians, and at demonstrations for Palestinian political prisoners held in Israel. Two key features of this unfolding warrant close attention: the manner in which anarchists in the Arab world are increasingly staging critiques and interventions that upend the contradictions held up as justification for US foreign policy, and the ongoing conversations between anti-authoritarian movements in the Arab world that bypass and remain unmediated by Western reference points. Whether Syrian anarchists' insistence on self-determination as a central organizing principle can withstand the immediate reality of violence or the leverage of foreign interests remains an open question.

Nader Atassi is a Syrian political researcher and writer originally from Homs, currently living between the United States and Beirut. He runs the blog Darth Nader, reflecting on events within the Syrian revolution. I talked him into chatting about its anarchist traces, and the prospect of US intervention.
Joshua Stephens for Truthout: Anarchists have been both active in and writing from the Syrian revolution since the get-go. Do you have any sense of what sort of activity was happening prior? Were there influential threads that generated a Syrian articulation of anarchism?

Nader Atassi: Due to the authoritarian nature of the Syrian regime, there was always very little space to operate before the revolution began. However, in terms of anarchism in the Arab world, many of the most prominent voices were Syrians'. Despite there being no organizing that was explicitly "anarchist," Syrian bloggers and writers with anarchist influences were becoming increasingly prominent in the "scene" in the last decade or so. Mazen Kamalmaz is a Syrian anarchist who has written a lot over the last few years. His writings contain a lot of anarchist theory applied to contemporary situations, and he was a prominent voice in Arab anarchism long before the uprising began. He's written a good deal in Arabic, and recently gave a talk in a cafe in Cairo titled "What is Anarchism?"

In terms of organizing, the situation was different however. In the tough political landscape of an authoritarian regime, many had to get creative and exploit openings they saw in order to organize any type of movement, and this led to a de facto decentralized mode of organizing. For example, student movements erupted in Syrian universities during the second Palestinian intifada and the Iraq War. This was a type of popular discontent that the regime tolerated. Marches were organized to protest the Iraq War, or in solidarity with the Palestinian intifada. Although many members of the mukhabarat infiltrated those movements and monitored them closely, this was a purely spontaneous eruption on the part of the students. And although the students were well aware how closely they were being watched (apparently, mukhabarat used to follow the marches with a notepad, writing down what slogans were being chanted and being written on signs), they used this little political space they were given to operate in order to gradually address domestic issues within the regime-sanctioned protests about foreign issues.

One of the most daring episodes I've heard of is when students at Aleppo University, in a protest against the Iraq War, raised signs with the slogan "No to the Emergency Law" (Syria has been under Emergency Law since 1963). Such actions were unheard of at the time. Many of the students who spontaneously emerged as charismatic organizers from within those protests before the uprising began disappearing very early on in the current uprising. The regime was wary of those activist networks that were created as a result of those previous movements and thus immediately cracked down on those peaceful activists that it knew may be a threat to them (and at the same time, it became more lenient with the jihadi networks, releasing hundreds of them from prison in late 2011). Aleppo University, as it so happens, has a very well-known student movement in favor of the uprising, so much so that it has been dubbed "University of the Revolution." The regime would later target the university, killing many students in the School of Architecture.
You recently wrote on your blog about possible US intervention as a sort of corollary to Iranian and Russian intervention on behalf of Assad, and Islamist intervention in revolutionary movements. Much as with Egypt recently, anarchists seem something of signature voice against two unsatisfactory poles within mainstream coverage - a voice preoccupied with self-determination. Is that a fair understanding?

Yes, I believe it is, but I would clarify a few things, as well. In the case of Syria, there are many who fit that description; not only anarchists, but Trotskyists, Marxists, leftists, and even some liberals. Also, this iteration of self-determination is based on autonomy and decentralization, not Wilsonian notions of "one people" with some kind of nationalist, centralized self-determination. It is about Syrians being able to determine their own destinies not in the nationalist sense, but in the micro-political sense. So for example, Syrian self-determination doesn't mean one track which all the Syrians follow, but each person determining their own track, without others interfering. So Syrian Kurds, for example, also have the right to full self-determination in this conception, rather than forcing them into an arbitrary Syrian identity and saying that all the people that fall under this identity have one destiny.

And when we talk about parties, such as the regime, but also its foreign allies, and the jihadis who are against Syrian self-determination - this is not because there is one narrative of Syrian self-determination and jihadis are against it. Rather, they want to impose their own narrative on everyone else. The regime works and has always worked against Syrian self-determination because it holds all political power and refuses to share it. The Islamists work against Syrian self-determination not by virtue of them being Islamists (which is why a lot of liberals oppose them), but because they have a vision of how society should function, and want to forcefully impose that on others whether those people consent to it or not. This is against Syrian self-determination, as well. The allies of the Assad regime, Iran, Russia and various foreign militias, are against Syrian self-determination because they are determined to prop up this regime due to the fact that they've decided their geopolitical interests supersede Syrians deciding their destiny for themselves.

So yes, the mainstream coverage always tries to portray people as belonging to some kind of binary. But the Syrian revolution erupted as people demanding self-determination from the one party that was denying it to them: the regime of Bashar al Assad. As time passed, other actors came onto the scene who also denied Syrians their self-determination, even some who fought against the regime. But the position was never simply to be against the regime for the sake of being against the regime, just as I presume that in Egypt, our comrades' position is not being against the Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] for the sake of being against the Ikhwan. The regime took self-determination away from the people, and any removal of the regime that results in replacing it with someone else who will dominate Syrians should not be seen as a success. As in Egypt, when the Ikhwan came to power, those who considered them an affront to the revolution, even if they weren't felool [Mubarak loyalists], kept repeating the slogan "al thawra mustamera" ["the revolution continues"]. So too will it be in Syria if, after the regime is gone, a party comes to power that also denies Syrians their right to determine their own destiny.

When I interviewed Mohammed Bamyeh this year, he talked about Syria as a really interesting example of anarchism being a driving methodology on the ground. He pointed out that when one hears about organization within the Syrian revolution, one hears about committees and forms that are quite horizontal and autonomous. His suggestion seems borne out by what people like Budour Hassan have brought to light, documenting the life and work of Omar Aziz. Do you see that influence in what your comrades are doing and reporting?

Yes, this comes back to how anarchism should be seen as a set of practices rather than an ideology. Much of the organizing within the Syrian uprising has had an anarchistic approach, even if not explicit. There is the work that the martyr Omar Aziz contributed to the emergence of the local councils, which Tahrir-ICN and Budour Hassan have documented very well. Essentially these councils were conceived by Aziz as organizations where self-governance and mutual aid could flourish. I believe Omar's vision did breathe life into the way local councils operate, although it is worth noting that the councils have stopped short of self-governance, opting instead for focusing on media and aid efforts. But they still operate based on principles of mutual aid, cooperation and consensus.




AD if I were a moderator I would ban you for publishing pro-ISIS pro-CIA propagandist mind-fuckery here.

Because that is what this is.

There are few things more disgusting than that.

In fact, there aren't few things, what you are posting is the most dishonest murderous evil bullshit you could possibly post.

You should know better. This place should know better. This type of Death Porn and Evil should not be tolerated here. At all.

Good God.

I am not exaggerating. At all.

You're a disgusting human being. Not even a human being.

Here is one of AD's "fighters for freedom" at work.



Fuckin monster.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:46 pm

Are you looking to us to thank for bringing that shit to our attention?

Have you lost you fucking mind?

Really, what is going on with you this day?
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:12 pm

American Dream copies and pastes some airhead from Snopes, citing CNN and the Guardian, to debunk what she (and he) calls a "conspiracy theory". It is a pathetically lazy piece of junk.

Here`s American Dream`s "authority". Here`s how serious she is:
ImageKim LaCapria

Kim LaCapria is a New York-based content manager and longtime snopes.com message board participant. Although she was investigated and found to be "probably false" by snopes.com in early 2002, Kim later began writing for the site due to an executive order unilaterally passed by President Obama during a secret, late-night session (without the approval of Congress). Click like and share if you think this is an egregious example of legislative overreach.


Fnar, fnar.

You are a tireless one-man disinfo campaign, American Dream, and a tireless apologist for US imperialism. I have never yet seen you criticise a US aggression while it happened. Never. Instead you just c&p reams of stuff of precisely that quality.

Was the decapitation of that boy real or faked? It was real, as you know. He was decapitated by the US`s jihadists in Syria, against whom you have never yet said one word. And therefore you can only ignore it, as ever.

Is this real? Of course you won`t answer the question. They`re your allies. Fakes protect fakes.

Image

Compare and contrast the "work" of Snopes`s Kim LaCapria with the actual work of Robert Stuart, who is not an incompetent juvenile snarkster but actually gives a damn about the truth and therefore makes an honest effort to expose the fake:

Fabrication in BBC Panorama 'Saving Syria’s Children'

Analysis of the 30 September 2013 BBC Panorama documentary 'Saving Syria's Children' and related BBC News reports, contending that sequences filmed by BBC personnel and others at Atareb Hospital, Aleppo on 26 August 2013 purporting to show the aftermath of an incendiary bomb attack on a school in Urm Al-Kubra are largely, if not entirely, staged.

https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com/
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:52 pm

Nordic » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:49 pm wrote:AD if I were a moderator I would ban you for publishing pro-ISIS pro-CIA propagandist mind-fuckery here.

Because that is what this is.

There are few things more disgusting than that.

In fact, there aren't few things, what you are posting is the most dishonest murderous evil bullshit you could possibly post.

You should know better. This place should know better. This type of Death Porn and Evil should not be tolerated here. At all.

Good God.

I am not exaggerating. At all.

You're a disgusting human being. Not even a human being.


At what point do I just ban you? Because it's looking like the answer is "February" right now.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:58 pm

I would like to post in a thread that I started and continually added to for 5 years but it has become completely impossible.

I don't want anyone banned but I would like a change and the end of personal attacks
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Blue » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:16 pm

Why wait until February? Seems to me that someone spamming the board with live murder vids has an agenda that isn't very good for this place.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:27 pm

Blue » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:16 pm wrote:Why wait until February? Seems to me that someone spamming the board with live murder vids has an agenda that isn't very good for this place.


It`s not exactly noble of you to join the board last year and now call for the banning of someone who`s been here from the start.

I actually PM`d Nordic to suggest he delete that abuse, not least because it would just gain unjustified sympathy points for American Dream. I would not have posted that video either (and I could not watch more than the first five seconds of it), but it does show a real atrocity in Eastern Aleppo committed by a group of depraved sadists supported and financed by the USA. It is disingenuous to refer to it as if it were just some random snuff video of no relevance to the thread.

The abuse was OTT and the video shows a crime as ugly as any Nazi atrocity; Nordic should probably not have posted it - a link and a warning would have sufficed. But I do understand his anger at American Dream`s persistent spamming of this and other threads with the kind of pseudoleft warmongering propaganda that creates a smokescreen and serves to make such real atrocities invisible. And AD`s refusal either to defend or explain his c&p orgies is a persistent gross abuse of this Discussion Board that is never sanctioned. I am not the only one who cannot understand why not.

There is a White House Press Conference where the torture-murder of that poor boy is addressed by a rare journalist. The response has to be seen to be believed.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Blue » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:33 pm

I didn't join the board last year. I joined in 2009. I have as much right as anyone else here to state my views.
It's not very noble of certain posters to throw tantrums and fling personal attacks on a daily basis.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:49 pm

I threw no tantrums and disagreement is not personal abuse.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Nordic » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:05 pm

Well someone might ask at what point does someone ban AD for posting propaganda from child-beheaders.

I don't know why it's hard to understand that I find the posting of propaganda from child-beheaders to be far more offensive than showing the factual truth of what the child-beheaders do.

Because an awful lot of people would rather ignore the factual truth about child beheaders and argue instead, from the safety of their non-child-beheading world (where their tax dollars and their elected officials pay for and engage in child-beheading -- none of us are innocent here even though said taxes are forced from us) and would instead tolerate people who actively post, and relentlessly post, lies in support of child beheaders.

Let me put it this way. If WW2 were currently going on, would you find it moral to censor pictures from the Death Camps while letting certain members post pro-Nazi regime propaganda?

It's no different. Except maybe the scale of the murders.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:22 pm

Let me put it this way: Your outrage has no effect on what outrages you; most especially true when you do it here.

It just comes down to whether you can contain yourself and behave like an adult here.

Edit: Just in case this wasn't clear, I'm not talking about Syria. Your behavior has nothing to do with Syria. If you get banned from RI, it will be about your behavior, not the facts on the ground in another country.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:23 pm

This representation of AD's 'reasoning' seems accurate.

Mac wrote...
American Dream has never seen an unsuccessful revolution or an ineffective anti-imperialist struggle he couldn't get fully behind. Three kids lying down on the floor in Detroit - that's the way forward for The Left. (Beautiful-Soul Anarchism.)

It's the successful revolutions and the actual struggles against imperialist thuggery he finds interminally... problematic... [significant ellipsis] The inevitable upshot of this ponderous concern-trollery is that he never has anything concrete to say in support of any country that actually happens to be under US attack. For is Russia not also far-from-perfect...? Are we saying that Cuba is flawless...? Did Yugoslavia actually offer complete freedom to all of its citizens...? Are we saying we support everything Saddam Hussein ever said or did...? Was Ghadaffi's Libya our idea of paradise...? Bad Things happened in all those countries. We are not Bad, so how can we possibly support them when they're under attack?

Besides, nations are inherently evil. Everyone should be fully free.

Therefore, let's keep our souls pristine and watch that juggernaut crush them all. If our consciences ever happen to bother us slightly, we can always go and lie down somewhere. That'll show 'em. And at least we won't have taken sides...
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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