The War on Women

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: The War on Women

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:37 am

Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10594
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:45 am

Stephen Morgan wrote:Except no-one is being forbidden from aborting, are they? Rather, it's being made less convenient for them to do so. If they want an abortion, they can still get one, they just might have to jump through a couple of extra hoops to get to it. People with no medical coverage, on the other hand, die slow and painful deaths every day because of the lack of healthcare in America, which isn't the case in the rest of the civilised world.



Seriously Stephen how are those two things remotely related.

Its like saying you're not entitld to the dole cos of the plastic in the Pacific Ocean.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10594
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Stephen Morgan » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:38 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
Stephen Morgan wrote:Except no-one is being forbidden from aborting, are they? Rather, it's being made less convenient for them to do so. If they want an abortion, they can still get one, they just might have to jump through a couple of extra hoops to get to it. People with no medical coverage, on the other hand, die slow and painful deaths every day because of the lack of healthcare in America, which isn't the case in the rest of the civilised world.



Seriously Stephen how are those two things remotely related.


We're talking about the provision of health care, so whether their are children with none at all is relevant when we're talking about mandating private health insurers to provide birth control. What's not related is all this and the right to control your own body.

Its like saying you're not entitld to the dole cos of the plastic in the Pacific Ocean.


Welcome back, by the way. Unless you've been back for a bit and I just haven't noticed.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
User avatar
Stephen Morgan
 
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:37 am
Location: England
Blog: View Blog (9)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:12 am

Welcome back, by the way. Unless you've been back for a bit and I just haven't noticed.


Cheers, its only been a few days.

We're talking about the provision of health care, so whether their are children with none at all is relevant when we're talking about mandating private health insurers to provide birth control.


OK given that its about the provision of health care in the US playing one group in need of it against another group doesn't seem right to me. You're effectively saying that its ok not to fund healthcare properly, and that the people who suffer as a result of the inadequate funding should be fighting for what are effectivelyy the scraps of the medical system.

Playing two sides against the middle is what those in power do so they don't have to adequately fund their medical system. You are buying into that premise when you shouldn't be.

Its like saying that we're gonna make fox hunts tax deductible, but to fund it we'll either cut old age pensions or funding for disadvantaged schools.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10594
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The War on Women

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:28 am

In the Noble Name of Freedom, Arizona Says No Slutty-Slut Pills For You Unless We Say So
by Abby Zimet
Image

The latest insanity in lady news comes from Arizona, where the state Senate passed a measure giving employers the power to deny prescribed birth control pills to any female employee unless she provides proof she's not using it for, umm, birth control. No, really. And it's all about freedom ie: the freedom of a few wackos to tell the rest of us how to live. Bonus: Today's Doonesbury.

“I believe we live in America. We don’t live in the Soviet Union. So government should not be telling organizations or employers to do something against their moral beliefs… My whole legislation is about our First Amendment rights and freedom of religion.” - Majority Whip Debbie Lesko, author of Arizona House Bill 2625
Image

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Project Willow » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:27 pm

Stephen Morgan wrote:Except no-one is being forbidden from aborting, are they?


Yes, they are, by cutting off access to the service for anyone who isn't relatively wealthy. Some states are putting poor women in jail for having miscarriages, prosecuting them for self aborting.

Women die when access to abortion is restricted. That fact is well known to the men conducting this war on women. Disability and death are intended for those of us who run afoul of male control.
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Simulist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:56 pm

Stephen Morgan wrote:So, rest assured, if you think you have the "right" to an abortion, you're wrong.

Rest assured, Stephen, that you really don't understand the concept of rights, at least as it is understood in the United States.
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Nordic » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:54 pm

FWIW, my insurance, which is about as good as you can get, through my union, doesn't pay for female birth control pills. Neither did my wife's, back when she had really great insurance through her employer at Fox (which, admittedly was ultimately Rupert Murdoch). I think they provide for same - sex couples and all kinds of things, but no B.C. for the women!

It's just bizarre as hell. You'd think especially with the cost of childbirth they'd be happy to hand them out for free!
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: The War on Women

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:31 pm

Tom Corbett, Pennsylvania Governor, On Ultrasound Mandate: Just 'Close Your Eyes'




Georgia Republican Compares Women to Cows, Pigs, And Chickens
By Adam Peck on Mar 12, 2012 at 4:40 pm

Republican Georgia State Representative Terry England
A speech from a Georgia Republican state representative surfaced last week in which he compared women seeking abortions of stillborn fetuses to cows and pigs.
State Rep. Terry England was speaking in favor of HB 954, which makes it illegal to obtain an abortion after 20 weeks even if the woman is known to be carrying a stillborn fetus or the baby is otherwise not expected to live to term.
He then recalled his time working on a farm:
“Life gives us many experiences…I’ve had the experience of delivering calves, dead and alive. Delivering pigs, dead or alive. It breaks our hearts to see those animals not make it.”
Suggesting that if a cow or pig can give birth to a dead baby, then a woman should too was not enough for Rep. England though. He then delivered an anecdote to the chamber in which a young man who was apparently opposed to legislation outlawing chicken fighting said he would give up all of his chickens if the legislature simply took away women’s right to an abortion.
Watch the unreal remarks, courtesy of amateur videographer Bryan Long:
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Simulist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:33 pm

Georgia Republican Compares Women to Cows, Pigs, And Chickens

What can you expect from an ass?
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
User avatar
Simulist
 
Posts: 4713
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Here, and now.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The War on Women

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:47 am

Arizona

Tell your boss why you're on the pill or why you are a slut bill passes


Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Project Willow » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:21 pm

Image
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Nordic » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:28 pm

Ha. That's awesome.

Yeah, and why not accept it as God's will that your pecker can't get hard!

Pray, and if its god's will, you'll get an approved erection.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: The War on Women

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:58 pm

Why Is The GOP Turning Against Anti-Domestic-Violence Legislation?
By Amanda Marcotte | Posted Tuesday, March 20, 2012, at 11:26 AM ET

The most important thing to remember as Republicans pose as victims of Democrats igniting a culture war over women's rights is this: Republicans are not required to take the bait. They were not required to try to pass legislation restricting women's ability to use their own insurance to cover contraception. They don't have to draft laws allowing your boss to fire you if you use contraception. They're not obligated to think of new and interesting ways to shame women for seeking abortion, nor are they forced to sound like perverts and lechers when discussing these issues. They could always opt out, and simply let women have their rights without fighting us on this.

So when they strike the victim pose with regard to the Violence Against Women Act--accusing Democrats of being meanie bears who make them look like they're against women simply by asking them to vote on a bill that protects women from domestic violence--it's important to remember that no one is holding a gun against Republican heads and telling them to vote against VAWA. As Irin Carmon demonstrates, the excuses for refusing to vote for VAWA, which previously had a great deal of Republican support (just like contraception!), are impressively thin, even for Republican excuses. The claim is that they can't support women and men who suffer from domestic violence because this bill has special provisions for Native Americans and immigrants, and because the bill doesn't seem to go far enough to exclude LGBT victims of domestic violence from receiving help. The "we can't help women because we might accidentally help non-white people and queer people" argument isn't really the winning strategy in trying to convince people that your politics are based in anything but pure mean-spiritedness.

Just as with the contraception issue, the Republican revolt against domestic violence reduction legislation was predictable enough to anyone watching the right carefully, and watching the Republican turn to the right. The far right that opposes contraception, gay rights, and abortion also has opposed VAWA since the beginning. It's seen by the far right as an assault on "the family," i.e., on the absolute authority of straight men over their families. They also oppose it because their misogyny leads them to believe that many to most accusations of domestic violence are lies, and that women make it up so they can get out of marriage. (Even the most polished right winger working this angle can't help but portray marriage as a form of indentured servitude for women. They just simply reject women's right to say no to it, and suggest women would be happier if they would just submit.) Phyllis Schlafly is especially concerned that women might leave and get protection even without getting a sound beating first, and she doesn't even bother to frame constant belittling, screaming, and threats of violence as anything but a man's God-given wife-control rights. As Carmon establishes, the women-should-be-trapped-in-marriage attitude underlies the opposition to VAWA from Concerned Women for America as well, with the group issuing a press release arguing the act offers women a "'tactical advantage'" if they "want out of a marriage for any reason at all." There are lots of accusations from the right that domestic violence legislation somehow strips men of their right to due process; they're presumably referring to the existence of restraining orders that don't actually deprive men of their freedom, but simply require them to stay away from their ex-wives or girlfriends. Unless you believe in an absolute right of men to harass and stalk the woman of their choosing, this argument is something of a stretch.

Because of all this, we can safely assume Republicans are turning against VAWA as part of the larger embrace of extreme right wing views with regard to health care, unions, women's rights, and voting rights. If they're successful, the effects could be devastating. VAWA has had a dramatic impact on lowering rates of domestic violence and especially homicide, but those gains could easily be reversed if the federal support simply vanished.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: The War on Women

Postby Nordic » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:29 pm

Just in the last week I have started to finally see numerous "Obama 2012" bumper sticker.

This thing is having the desired effect.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests