merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

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merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby tazmic » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:59 am

The Deniable Darwin

In its most familiar, textbook form, Darwin's theory subordinates itself to a haunting and fantastic image, one in which life on earth is represented as a tree. So graphic has this image become that some biologists have persuaded themselves they can see the flowering tree standing on a dusty plain, the mammalian twig obliterating itself by anastomosis into a reptilian branch and so backward to the amphibia and then the fish, the sturdy chordate line - our line, cosa nostra - moving by slithering stages into the still more primitive trunk of life and so downward to the single irresistible cell that from within its folded chromosomes foretold the living future.

This is nonsense, of course. That densely reticulated tree, with its lavish foliage, is an intellectual construct, one expressing the hypothesis of descent with modification.

http://www.arn.org/docs/berlinski/db_deniabledarwin0696.htm

I enjoy Berlinski. He strikes me as one of those 'clever enough to be spectacularly wrong' types. Anyone know more about him?
"It ever was, and is, and shall be, ever-living fire, in measures being kindled and in measures going out." - Heraclitus

"There aren't enough small numbers to meet the many demands made of them." - Strong Law of Small Numbers
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby Hammer of Los » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:27 pm

...

Darwinism is of course, a tautology.

Evolution on the other hand, is a very real and active force.

And Darwin can barely be credited with the invention of the Tree of Life of the mystical Kabbalah, also known as Yggdrasil the World Tree.

It is an invocation and revelation of the unitary fractal outward expanding holographic crystalline pure integrated reality life consciousness.

Or something of that sort.

The Fruit of this tree hang in Heaven, waiting to be plucked and eaten.

There is something in the dna.

It awakens.

...
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby barracuda » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:40 pm

Yeah, gradualism is a chimera. Transitional forms probably aren't going to be found, because they might not exist at all. Speciation might occur in extremely short intervals with fairly large morphological changes accompanying the jumps. Darwinism is full of holes.

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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby ida pingala » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:53 pm

Charles Darwin was no Darwinist, leaving the evidence of cataclysmic upheaval he had observed on the Beagle--and all its implications--out of The Origin of Species.
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby tazmic » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:05 am

ida pingala wrote:Charles Darwin was no Darwinist, leaving the evidence of cataclysmic upheaval he had observed on the Beagle--and all its implications--out of Origin of the Species.

Not sure I follow.
As the Beagle sailed steadily on towards South America, Darwin continued his geological education for himself. Henslow and Sedgwick had recommended that he took, what would become one of the founding texts for geological science, the Principles of Geology by Charles Lyell. In this text Lyell argued against the cataclysmic geology that Darwin had been taught by his geology lecturers, in favour of a view that the earth is shaped by the slow processes which can be observed today. This view of geology, where small changes are summed up over long time periods is called gradualism. Seeing the world from this perspective would be one of Darwin’s most important lessons.

http://www.christs.cam.ac.uk/darwin200/pages/index.php?page_id=c3

:?:
"It ever was, and is, and shall be, ever-living fire, in measures being kindled and in measures going out." - Heraclitus

"There aren't enough small numbers to meet the many demands made of them." - Strong Law of Small Numbers
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby ida pingala » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:05 am

The greater number, if not all, of these extinct quadrupeds lived at a late period, and were contemporaries of most of the existing sea-shells. Since they lived, no very great change in the form of the land can have taken place. What then, has exterminated so many species and whole genera? The mind at first is irresistibly hurried into the belief of some great catastrophe; but thus to destroy animals, both large and small, in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, on the Cordillera of Peru, in North America up to Behring's Straits, we must shake the entire framework of the globe.


-Charles Darwin, The Voyage of the Beagle, entry dated Jan 9 1834, p178.
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby ida pingala » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:22 am

Here is a link to the original text...

http://www.literature.org/authors/darwi ... er-08.html
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:31 pm

^^Sure.

But this:

ida pingala wrote:Charles Darwin was no Darwinist, leaving the evidence of cataclysmic upheaval he had observed on the Beagle--and all its implications--out of The Origin of Species.


(a) suggests that he not only omitted that for no good (or maybe just "no known, stated and credible") reason, but that he knowingly suppressed it for reasons so very bad that his having done so effectively scientifically invalidates Darwinism -- aka "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish" in this context -- and all its implications, for all practical and theoretical purposes; and

(b) does so exclusively by itself omitting to mention virtually everything that Charles Darwin ever did (and/or didn't do) in the whole of his life's work, apart from leave those words out of The Origin of Species.
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I think there might be some context you're not fully taking into account there, basically.
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby ida pingala » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:37 pm

Huh?
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby Hammer of Los » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:47 am

...

Darwinism -- aka "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish"


It is not correct to equate Darwinism with "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish."

Darwin did not even originate that particularly field of study.

...
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby ida pingala » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:27 pm

c2w,

Cricket has such an odd setup, continually degrading the connection and then disconnecting rather than simply shutting off the service. 15 minutes to log on this last time. Seems slightly sadistic.

:)

This thread has such possibilities--for both rigor and intuition. I strongly encourage you to continue it with hammer of los, barracuda and tazmic et al.

It's a meditation.

To respond to what I think you were saying above: Charles Darwin omitted catastrophism for good reason. He chose not to subsume uniformitarianism and catastrophism under a more comprehensive theory because the time was not right (for humanity's sake) to do so. But it did not invalidate his theory of natural selection except to the extent that it rendered it incomplete.

If you counter by arguing that such an incomplete theory is invalid, so be it.

What is the boiling point of water?
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby compared2what? » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:50 pm

Hammer of Los wrote:...

Darwinism -- aka "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish"


It is not correct to equate Darwinism with "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish."

Darwin did not even originate that particularly field of study.

...


So very true. Hence the very capacious, yet very flexible little three-word qualification that I think some wicked internet fairies probably swiped right out of the sentence in which it was sweetly slumbering, while the clause in which it was cradled was in transit from my post to yours.

Hold on one second, I will cast off the enchantment preventing its return.

BRB.
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby compared2what? » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:53 pm

In this context.

I mean, YEAH, that's cheating. But it's cheating by the rules!

:lovehearts:
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby Hammer of Los » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:01 pm

...

I shall concede that context is everything.

Nonetheless, I could not allow such a statement to remain uncontested.

Sorry 'bout that.

On the catastrophism front, I typically don't dare go there.

You'll get me spouting koans.

When little worlds collide I'm safe within my embryonic shell.

...
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Re: merely a matter of blind thrusting and throbbing

Postby hanshan » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:39 pm

...


compared2what? wrote:
Hammer of Los wrote:...

Darwinism -- aka "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish"


It is not correct to equate Darwinism with "the entire field of evolutionary biology, from start to finish."

Darwin did not even originate that particularly field of study.

...


So very true. Hence the very capacious, yet very flexible little three-word qualification that I think some wicked internet fairies probably swiped right out of the sentence in which it was sweetly slumbering, while the clause in which it was cradled was in transit from my post to yours.

Hold on one second, I will cast off the enchantment preventing its return.

BRB.


:lovehearts: :lovehearts: :lovehearts:



...
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