^^Noted, and that's a great place to end the discussion about your interpretation of everyone's politics here.
Moving on...
Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff
by Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:09 pm
by semper occultus » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:28 pm
Paedophilia ~A Response by Tom O'Carroll
Gay Left No.8 Summer 1979
http://www.gayleft1970s.org/issues/gay.left_issue.08.pdf
But I believe it would be useful to leave the last word to a recent internal discussion document prepared by the Gay Commission of the International Marxist Group *, which emphasised the need for broadening the base of the child's social experience in the way I have suggested:
"A widening of the scope of relations between adults and children will inevitably mean an increase in the incidence of paedophile relationships. We thus see the raising of the taboo on paedophile relationships as being an integral part of the liberation of children and of women. Paedophile relationships are not only allowable, they are to a large degree inevitable in a socialist society."
* The Gay Commission, International Marxist Group
'Our Line on Paedophilia', internal discussion document, 1979
by Searcher08 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:08 pm
semper occultus » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:28 pm wrote:dohhh……did I miss all the fun ….?
…..coz far be it from me to defy the Jehovian wrath & awe of Almighty Mod I is very confused …..Paedophilia ~A Response by Tom O'Carroll
Gay Left No.8 Summer 1979
http://www.gayleft1970s.org/issues/gay.left_issue.08.pdf
But I believe it would be useful to leave the last word to a recent internal discussion document prepared by the Gay Commission of the International Marxist Group *, which emphasised the need for broadening the base of the child's social experience in the way I have suggested:
"A widening of the scope of relations between adults and children will inevitably mean an increase in the incidence of paedophile relationships. We thus see the raising of the taboo on paedophile relationships as being an integral part of the liberation of children and of women. Paedophile relationships are not only allowable, they are to a large degree inevitable in a socialist society."
* The Gay Commission, International Marxist Group
'Our Line on Paedophilia', internal discussion document, 1979
….OK I dig it …..fucking kids is like…..liberating them…maaaaan, from their oppressively patriarchal childhood innocence…
…...oh but hang-on……memo from the politburo – four legs now bad - kiddie-fucking’s not cool and revolutionary but the capitalist patriarchy giving it one to the rosy-cheeked, plump-buttocked off-spring of the workers & peasants ….
...OK got it….. guess it’s a spell in the re-education camp for those wacky funsters in the International Marxist Group then….
……maybe the revolutionary vanguard could like…sort their shit out once & for all before sharing their ineffable wisdom with the rest of us plebs….
by American Dream » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:18 pm
by MacCruiskeen » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:33 pm
David Hare on Jimmy Savile: biography of the man who 'groomed a nation'
Dan Davies's In Plain Sight is a revealing life of a celebrity who understood his own depravity
David Hare
The Guardian, Wednesday 9 July 2014 15.33 BST
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/j ... hare/print
'There is no end of uses to a motor caravan' … Jimmy Savile making himself a pot of tea. (Photograph: Mccarthy/Getty Images)
In the United States, no gun is fired and no bird falls to the ground without the incident at once being appropriated by both sides as ammunition in a culture war. Democratic politics having been finally wrestled to the ground by big business and big finance, the most bitter field of controversy has shifted from how we're governed to how we behave. The smallest incident, it seems, is proof of an existing argument, one way or another. Up till now in the United Kingdom we've been spared a great deal of this mindless back and forth, but the recent revelation of Jimmy Savile's vile character has brought signs that things are heading the same way. Traders in opinion have had an orgy throwing Savile against the wall to see what sticks.
In Plain Sight: The Life and Lies of Jimmy Savile, by Dan Davies
To entrenched analysts on one side, Savile is represented as the embodiment of deep cultural misogyny. Throughout his life he referred to the women he violated as "it". In the view of the left, he is a Conservative con man who dined yearly at Chequers, a shameless Tartuffe to the royal family, and, disgracefully, a celebrity all too ready to blackmail individual members of the Prison Officers' Association to prevent strikes, after his appointment to the Broadmoor task force was approved by Edwina Currie at the Department of Health. "Attaboy!" wrote Currie in her diary, when Savile told her of his plans for the hospital. "Jimmy is truly a great Briton," added Mrs Thatcher, "a stunning example of opportunity Britain, a dynamic example of enterprise Britain, and an inspiring example of responsible Britain." But to kneejerk polemicists on the right, looking for satisfying corroboration of what they already believe, Savile is, to the contrary, shocking proof of the moral downside of the new freedoms of the 1960s, and an indictment of two handy ideological targets, which may therefore, they hope, be tarnished by association: the National Health Service and the BBC. A hapless medical expert who argued in this newspaper that Savile wasn't evil but more likely a victim of bad parenting was immediately torn to pieces in the correspondence columns by the readers.
The best hope for the publication of a substantial book by the journalist who spent most time with Savile and who interviewed him frequently is that stale controversy may at last be refreshed by the application of a few facts. The portrait painted by Dan Davies might as well be that of a murderer as of a rapist. Born in Leeds in 1926 as the last of seven children to a ferocious mother, Agnes, who was to remain the sole love of his life, Savile was a solitary child who played alone. When sent down the mines as a Bevin boy, he realised that by turning up in a suit, working naked, then washing his hands and feet while at the bottom of the pit, he might come back up to leave the mine after a day's work as immaculate as when he arrived. In his own words "The effect was electric … I didn't do it for any reason, I just realised that going back clean would freak people out, and it did. Underneath the clothes I was black as night. But I realised that being a bit odd meant that there could be a payday."
Having stumbled on what Davies calls the power of oddness, Savile was then exhilarated to discover he could compound his power by becoming a disc jockey. At once he relished the feeling of control, allowing people to dance, fast or slow, only as and when he wanted. He loved what he took to calling "the effect": "That's the thing that triggered me off and sustained me for the rest of my days." By the time he became a manager of Mecca dance halls, first in Ilford, then in Manchester, he was deploying a distinctive mix of gangster boasting, financial greed and abuse of both sexes, often under age, while moving smoothly on to a career in television. This time, the "effect" of his TV debut was immediate. When he returned to the dance hall to find people queuing round the block, he took special pleasure in them falling a step back, impressed, as he walked by. "I thought: 'Fucking hell, this is like having the keys to the Bank of England.'"
Throughout the book it is presented as paradox that Savile, the best-known presenter of TV programmes for young people, hated children. But it would be truer to say he hated people. He had no interest in relationships. "I just don't have those feelings with another human being." Self-evidently he hated women, on whom he simply sought to leave a violent and degrading stain, throwing them out of his Rolls-Royce if, during sex, they threatened to gag on its leatherwork. But, friendless and intensively competitive, he wasn't crazy about men either, unless, like Prince Charles – who Princess Diana said regarded Savile as his mentor – they were in a position to make him yet more powerful. As an intelligent man with an IQ said to be 150, Savile realised that if he could get tame policemen on his side by a mixture of bribery and flattery, he would be able to bluff his way in the face of the accusations that would inevitably begin to mount up. "Why tell the truth," he asked, "when you can get away with a lie?" Briefly called in as a suspect in the case of the Yorkshire Ripper, he had, he said, "more front than Blackpool". His technique for dealing with his victims was always to keep on the move. "If anyone makes demands, they don't make them twice, pal, because they get the sack after the first time." In a life roiling with sinister self-knowledge, nothing is more chilling than his declaration: "There is no end of uses to a motor caravan."
In normal circumstances, anyone who declared that the five days they spent alone with their mother's coffin were the happiest of their life – "Once upon a time I had to share her with other people … But when she was dead, she was all mine" – would be subject to some public scrutiny. So would somebody whose first reaction after quadruple bypass surgery was to grope the attendant nurse's breast. But by then Savile had pulled off the brilliant trick of seeming to make his surface weirdness part of what he called his "charismatic package". "Nobody can be frightened of me. It would be beneath anyone's dignity to be frightened of someone dressed like this." The popular press, always loudly boastful of its fearlessness, was effectively scared off. In the words of one Metropolitan police commander, "he groomed a nation". In his own words: "I am a man what knows everything but says nothing." As he moved to consolidate his position and to work for the knighthood that he believed would make him untouchable, he took to raising vast sums of money for charity, most especially for a spinal injuries unit at Stoke Mandeville. His first question on arriving in any town was to ask where the hospital was. This was not just because a hospital offered sexual pickings and a captive audience for his ceaseless self-glorying monologues. Nor was it wholly because he needed the immunity that came from apparent respectability. Most important of all, he believed that the day would come when he would have to offer his good works as some mitigation against a final reckoning.
Apart from his mother, God is the only other supporting character in Savile's story, the only one who is granted more than a walk-on part. "When I'm holding somebody that has just died I'm filled with a tremendous love and envy. They've left behind their problems, they've made the journey. If somebody were to tell me tonight I wouldn't wake up in the morning, it would fill me with tremendous joy. Sometimes I can't wait." Savile does not belong among the amoral heroes of Patricia Highsmith, disposing of people without remorse in a meaningless universe. Rather, he inhabits the driven world of Graham Greene, where the protagonist is in a lurid and sweaty argument with his maker, trying to pile up credit points to balance the final ledger against what he knows full well to be his sins. If the definition of a psychopath is someone who does not understand his own depravity, then Savile is, to the consternation of medical apologists, the very opposite. He always carried the rosary the pope had given him. On his deathbed, he was found with his fingers crossed.
In his book God'll Fix It, which collects his thoughts on matters religious, Savile offers a weaselly line of defence, claiming that everyone's true identity is hopelessly in hock to the desires they are given and over which they can hope to have no control. The machine of the body that God has lent you may cause you to err, but nothing is finally your fault. "It could be that the person arriving at the judgment seat had been given a body prone to excesses because the glands dictated that he should be more than was really normal." He defends Broadmoor's inhabitants as "more unlucky than bad", and argues that "There's no point asking about that dark night … when something terrible happened because it wasn't them doing it. It was someone else using their body." When asked if he has been following the Myra Hindley story he replies enigmatically: "I am the Myra Hindley story." Like many Roman Catholics, he is concerned to make a good death – it's one of the most important things in his life – but at no point is he ever known to give a moment's thought to the tormented deaths waiting for those whose lives he has ruined. Even in guilt, the drama is always about him. By the time he has been encouraged by his admirers to lead a peace march across Northern Ireland and to claim that he has been mooted as a potential intermediary between Begin and Sadat to reconcile warring parties in the Middle East, then what Davies calls Savile's messiah complex has taken up every inch of space in his head. A stretcher-bearer at Leeds general hospital commented on the award of his OBE: "They often say he's a bit of a twit. Us, we say he's a bit of a bloody saint."
There is nobody in the world who wants to read a bad book about Jimmy Savile, and there may well, for understandable reasons, be a limit to the number of people who want to read an outstanding one. Davies scarcely puts a foot wrong, interweaving Savile's story with a devastatingly detailed account of how the BBC's dysfunctional news department managed in 2011 so completely both to suppress the scoop of Saville's offences and then, unbelievably, to further mishandle the admission of that suppression. The only errors of tone occur when the author obtrudes himself in the manner of self-conscious literary reportage, gussying the narrative up with needless speculation about his own personal motives for his longstanding obsession with his subject. We don't care. If the book is considerably less depressing than you might anticipate, it's because the act of biography itself here seems noble. Four hundred and fifty people have so far made allegations of sexual abuse against Savile. Across 28 police areas in England and Wales, he is known to have committed 214 criminal offences in 50 years. There are 31 allegations of rape, half of them against minors, and Dame Janet Smith's independent review at the BBC is believed to be about to claim that up to 1,000 young people may have been abused by Savile in the corporation's dressing rooms. All religions rely on the notion of redemption, but the only redeeming feature of Savile's life is that he has posthumously lucked into such a clear‑eyed and morally conscientious biographer. Prince Charles once wrote "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country, Jimmy." They do now.
• To order In Plain Sight for £14.99 with free UK p&p call Guardian book service on 0330 333 6846 or go to guardianbookshop.co.uk.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/j ... hare/print
by RocketMan » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:58 pm
MacCruiskeen » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:33 pm wrote:In today's Guardian, the playwright David Hare reviews a newly-published biography of Savile:David Hare on Jimmy Savile: biography of the man who 'groomed a nation'
Dan Davies's In Plain Sight is a revealing life of a celebrity who understood his own depravity
Savile does not belong among the amoral heroes of Patricia Highsmith, disposing of people without remorse in a meaningless universe. Rather, he inhabits the driven world of Graham Greene, where the protagonist is in a lurid and sweaty argument with his maker, trying to pile up credit points to balance the final ledger against what he knows full well to be his sins. If the definition of a psychopath is someone who does not understand his own depravity, then Savile is, to the consternation of medical apologists, the very opposite. He always carried the rosary the pope had given him. On his deathbed, he was found with his fingers crossed.
He defends Broadmoor's inhabitants as "more unlucky than bad", and argues that "There's no point asking about that dark night … when something terrible happened because it wasn't them doing it. It was someone else using their body." When asked if he has been following the Myra Hindley story he replies enigmatically: "I am the Myra Hindley story."
by Searcher08 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:23 pm
by RocketMan » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:53 pm
Searcher08 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:23 am wrote:Prince Charles once wrote "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country, Jimmy."
Speculation invited on what this might be...
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:13 pm
Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 07:59 PM
Original message
US Ambassador to England Inherited "Auschwitz" money (Farish)
If you do not know about William Farish III, there is a reason. The man is VERY private and most Americans have never heard of him. Yet, his power is immense and his fortunes from his grandfather are tied directly to the bushes, as well as the Nazi party.
Unfortunately, only the print edition of the NYT shows his picture standing in the middle of GWB and Prince Charles as an introducer. This is the NYT article related to this most recent incident...
Lost in all the white ties and tails, cavalry parades and antiwar protests of President Bush's trip to London last week was a reticent multimillionaire American racehorse breeder, William S. Farish. His day job is the United States ambassador to Britain, and his credentials include very close ties to the Bush family.
How close? Well, not only did Mr. Farish manage the elder George Bush's blind trusts when he became vice president, but he gave him his springer spaniel, Millie, and Mr. Farish later had her mated at his lush Kentucky horse farm. Among the puppies was Spot, the 13-year-old dog of the current President Bush.
In Hour to Shine, an Envoy Instead Shuns the Spotlight
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: November 24, 2003
WASHINGTON
Lost in all the white ties and tails, cavalry parades and antiwar protests of President Bush's trip to London last week was a reticent multimillionaire American racehorse breeder, William S. Farish. His day job is the United States ambassador to Britain, and his credentials include very close ties to the Bush family.
How close? Well, not only did Mr. Farish manage the elder George Bush's blind trusts when he became vice president, but he gave him his springer spaniel, Millie, and Mr. Farish later had her mated at his lush Kentucky horse farm. Among the puppies was Spot, the 13-year-old dog of the current President Bush.
How close? Well, for decades the elder Mr. Bush has relaxed at Mr. Farish's fabulous houses. Bush père has fished at Mr. Farish's oceanfront home in Gulf Stream, Fla., shot quail at Mr. Farish's 10,000-acre Lazy F Ranch in Beeville, Tex., and been feted at a fund-raiser at Mr. Farish's Lane's End Farm in Versailles, Ky. Queen Elizabeth has visited the farm, too, where she watched Mr. Farish play polo.
All of which means that Mr. Farish would have been the perfect ambassador to handle the pomp of the Court of St. James had not the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, intervened. That, in any case, is the widespread view of British commentators and reporters, who would like the man they call the quiet American to speak up.
Their view is that now more than ever, when the relationship between the American president and Prime Minister Tony Blair is so crucial, and when anti-Americanism is rife in Europe, the White House needs a strong voice in London. But they say that Mr. Farish, whom American Embassy officials readily describe as "very private," has been largely invisible.
"The Bush administration, so often abrasive in tone, and so sharply different from its predecessor, could do with explanation abroad," wrote Bronwen Maddox, the foreign editor of The Times of London, in a column before Mr. Bush's visit to Britain. "For an ambassador to abandon that attempt is to accept the caricature often given."
Ms. Maddox noted that British broadcasters had often filled in the gap in the run-up to the Iraq war by turning for commentary to Richard N. Perle, a hawkish, highly influential adviser to top Pentagon officials, and James P. Rubin, the State Department spokesman in the Clinton administration. Mr. Rubin lives in London; Mr. Perle is a frequent visitor to the city.
"Both are thoughtful and experienced, but do not speak for the U.S. government," Ms. Maddox wrote. "Perle's ubiquity in particular can only have fueled the common allegation that Washington is run by a neo-conservative coterie."
Mr. Farish, who gives very few newspaper interviews, declined to speak to a reporter for this article. But over the weekend he did agree to field queries about the president's visit relayed through the American embassy press officer, Lee McClenny, who took notes on Mr. Farish's answers. Mr. McClenny then e-mailed what he said were Mr. Farish's responses to this reporter.
The president's visit, Mr. Farish said in Mr. McClenny's notes, "was a big success." He added: "It underlined, I think, the extraordinary ties of language, history, culture and national interest that bring the U.S. and the U.K. together. I think the visit has provided an opportunity, as well, for Britons to give our relationship a closer look, and I think the vast majority have concluded — to paraphrase Prime Minister Blair — that our ties are based on common values and beliefs, and that Britain stands with America because that's where they want to stand."
Last week, Mr. Farish moved largely in Mr. Bush's orbit. With the president, Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip, Laura Bush and Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, among others, he wandered past the Rembrandts in the Picture Gallery of Buckingham Palace, where he kept his place in the group behind Mr. Bush and the queen.
Mr. Farish also listened to musicians who played "South Pacific" at the queen's state banquet for Mr. Bush at the palace. (In Mr. McClenny's notes, he called the setting "magnificent," the roast halibut and free-range chicken "delicious" and the guests "glittering." )
And Mr. Farish was of course at the reciprocal dinner given by Mr. Bush at Winfield House, the American ambassador's residence in London. (In Mr. McClenny's notes, Mr. Farish called the event "a reflection of our own simpler American style.") The guests included the actor Michael Caine; Andrew Lloyd Webber, the creator of "Cats"; and David Frost, who interviewed Mr. Bush for the BBC before the president left for London.
To bring the Winfield House guest list full circle, Mr. Bush told Sir David that he had once seen "Cats" in London and also remembered "going to some nice pubs when I was a drinking man."
In any case, Mr. Farish said in the notes taken by Mr. McClenny that musicals like those by Sir Andrew were "another reminder of the many links between our two nations."
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. More on Farish
I did some investigation of his family several months ago and found a number of very interesting connections.
Farish's wife is the former Sarah Sharp, daughter of Bayard Sharp (1913-2002), a close friend of George H.W. and Barbara Bush. Bayard's mother was Isabella Mathieu du Pont, whose three brothers successively headed E.I. du Pont de Nemours and Company between 1915 and 1940. They were admirers of Hitler, funded multiple fascist organizations in the US, and were behind the plot to overthrow FDR in 1934.
Farish's mother was Mary Wood, daughter of General Robert E. Wood, who was chairman of the isolationist America First Committee in 1940 and became a prominent figure in the extreme right after World War II. Wood corresponded extensively with Senator Joseph McCarthy and supported many right-wing groups, particularly in Texas. He was also in touch with a group of revisionist historians who were pushing the notion that Roosevelt had sold out to the Soviet Union and that the State Department had deliberately handed China over to the communists.
Farish's aunt, Martha Botts Farish, was married to Edward Harriman Gerry, nephew of Averell Harriman and brother of Elbridge Gerry, who was a partner in Brown Brothers Harriman & Company. That marriage seems to have been a major factor in bringing the Farishes and the Bushes together, although they were already acquainted through the oil industry.
Farish's grandmother, the wife of William Stamps Farish, Sr., was Libbie Botts Rice. That's Botts as in the lawfirm of Baker and Botts, of which her grandfather was a co-founder, and Rice as in Rice University, which in the century since its founding has persistently been tied in with Houston oil interests. (In recent years, Rice was closely entangled with Enron.)
Libbie's sister, Ella Botts Rice, was briefly married to Howard Hughes in the 1920's, just after he had inherited the rights to a drill bit which his father had invented and which was essential to the oil industry. While Hughes was a minor, his assets were controlled by the Rice Board of Directors.
And, for what it's worth, the elder Farish's great-grandmother was the sister of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.
Altogether, a very strange and powerful family.
by Searcher08 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:41 pm
RocketMan » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:53 pm wrote:Searcher08 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:23 am wrote:Prince Charles once wrote "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country, Jimmy."
Speculation invited on what this might be...
He summoned some sort of Great Old One through child rape and sacrifice rituals to watch over the United Kingdom?
In addition to this, my curiosity was piqued by the remark in the new biography reviewed by David Hare that Prince Charles considered Savile his "mentor". Shiver me timbers.
by zangtang » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:31 am
by American Dream » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:36 am
Margaret Thatcher 'Covered Up for Minister Accused of Child Sex Abuse'
By Lilian Anekwe
July 13, 2014
The Westminster sex abuse scandal has deepened further after accusations in a Sunday newspaper that former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher personally covered up allegations that a senior minister abused young boys during the 1980s.
According to The Sunday People, Thatcher was aware of allegations that a senior minister, described as a "rising star" in the Conservative party in the 1980s, abused young boys at the home of a political ally in 1982.
Thatcher summoned the minister to a "high-powered meeting" involving the Conservative Party top brass and senior police officers, but did not dismiss or even discipline the MP, merely telling him to "clean up his sexual act", the source claims.
But the source alleged that far from cleaning up his act, the minister went on to continue to seek out young boys for sexual acts. The story claims the minister was even arrested as part of a police sting operation in 1986, for seeking rent boys in the toilets of London's Victoria railway station. Again, the police took no action
Other allegations suggest that the same politician may also have solicited young boys for sex at a vice spot known as the "chicken rack" – a set of railings near Piccadilly Circus in London that was a known spot where boys as young as 13 were allegedly targeted by paedophiles.
The explosive allegations claim for the first time that Thatcher was involved in covering up a Westminster paedophile ring, and that the child abuse network extended all the way to the very top of the British Government and the Metropolitan Police.
Labour MP Tom Watson said the latest allegations should be investigated by Baroness Butler-Sloss, who has been appointed to lead an investigation into the claims.
Watson said: "If true, these extraordinary revelations reveal a remarkable state of affairs – so much so that they're almost impossible to imagine. Yet that is what people said about Jimmy Savile and look what happened with him. These claims should be investigated by the new child abuse inquiry."
A spokesman for the Metropolitan Police said: "We will fully co-operate with the panel chaired by Baroness Butler-Sloss and provide detail of relevant information. While these and live police investigations are ongoing it would be inappropriate to comment further."
Related
Profile: Elizabeth Butler-Sloss the 'Establishment' Figure Heading Child Sex Abuse Inquiry
Paedophile Inquiry Head Butler-Sloss Urged to Stand Down Because of Family Links
by AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:34 am
When asked if he has been following the Myra Hindley story he replies enigmatically: "I am the Myra Hindley story."
by AhabsOtherLeg » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:29 am
American Dream » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:36 am wrote:http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/margaret-thatcher-covered-minister-accused-child-sex-abuse-1456472Thatcher summoned the minister to a "high-powered meeting" involving the Conservative Party top brass and senior police officers, but did not dismiss or even discipline the MP, merely telling him to "clean up his sexual act", the source claims.
by Searcher08 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:21 pm
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests
