The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals?

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The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:56 am

This one for you Elvis :)

The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals?
Charles Choi, LiveScience ContributorDate: 01 November 2012 Time: 08:55 AM ET

Modern North Africans carry genetic traces from Neanderthals, suggesting their ancestors, too, interbred with humanity's closest known extinct relatives, report scientists online Oct. 17, 2012, in the journal PLoS One.

The only modern humans whose ancestors did not interbreed with Neanderthals are apparently sub-Saharan Africans, researchers say.

New findings suggest modern North Africans carry genetic traces from Neanderthals, modern humanity's closest known extinct relatives.

Although modern humans are the only surviving members of the human lineage, others once roamed the Earth, including the Neanderthals. Genetic analysis of these extinct lineages’ fossils has revealed they once interbred with our ancestors, with recent estimates suggesting that Neanderthal DNA made up 1 percent to 4 percent of modern Eurasian genomes. Although this sex apparently only rarely produced offspring, this mixing was enough to endow some people with the robust immune systems they enjoy today.


The Neanderthal genome revealed that people outside Africa share more genetic mutations with Neanderthalsthan Africans do. One possible explanation is that modern humans interbred with Neanderthals mostly after the modern lineage began appearing outside Africa at least 100,000 years ago. Another, more complex scenario is that an African group ancestral to both Neanderthals and certain modern human populations genetically split from other Africans beginning about 230,000 years ago. This group then stayed genetically distinct until it eventually left Africa.

To shed light on why Neanderthals appear most closely related to people outside Africa, scientists analyzed North Africans. Some researchers had suggested these groups were the sources of the out-of-Africa migrations that ultimately spread humans around the globe.

The researchers focused on 780,000 genetic variants in 125 people representing seven different North African locations. They found North Africans had dramatically more genetic variants linked with Neanderthals than sub-Saharan Africans did. The level of genetic variants that North Africans share with Neanderthals is on par with that seen in modern Eurasians.

The scientists also found this Neanderthal genetic signal was higher in North African populations whose ancestors had relatively little recent interbreeding with modern Near Eastern or European peoples. That suggests the signal came directly from ancient mixing with Neanderthals, and not recent interbreeding with other modern humans whose ancestors might have interbred with Neanderthals. [10 Mysteries of the First Humans]

"The only modern populations without Neanderthal admixture are the sub-Saharan groups," said researcher Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogeneticist at the Institute of Evolutionary Biology at Barcelona, Spain.

The researchers say their findings do not suggest that Neanderthals entered Africa and made intimate contact with ancient North Africans. Rather, "what we are saying is that the contact took place outside Africa, likely in the Near East, and that there was a back migration into Africa of some groups that peopled North Africa, likely replacing or assimilating some ancestral populations," Lalueza-Fox told LiveScience.

This research also suggests that North African groups were not the source of the out-of-Africa migrations. Rather, other groups, perhaps out of East Africa, might have led this diaspora.

The scientists detailed their findings Oct. 17 in the journal PLoS ONE.
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby barracuda » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:04 pm

Admit it, Neanderthals were hawt. And I understand homo erectus had it goin' on, too.

Australopithecus, maybe not so much.

Image

But they sure rocked those sideburns.
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby solace » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:10 pm

Raises hand.
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby kafor » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:55 pm

Where's the question? Of course my (and probably yours) ancestors killed the men and took the women. It's what Cro Magnons do. I'd imagine they also displaced the Denisovians and possibly the last of erectus in the same way. Hell, we do it to ourselves all the time, at least up til now. Maybe tomorrow Peace and Luv will blossom across the planet. :wink: Still, the evolution of our species is amazing. The numbers alone amaze me. Kafor
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby Sepka » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:43 pm

I mean, seriously - is there anyone who can say homo erectus with a straight face?
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby 82_28 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:44 pm

Sepka wrote:I mean, seriously - is there anyone who can say homo erectus with a straight face?


Look at your pic, B. :sun:
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby 82_28 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:03 am

seemslikeadream wrote:This one for you Elvis :)

The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals?
Charles Choi, LiveScience ContributorDate: 01 November 2012 Time: 08:55 AM ET

Modern North Africans carry genetic traces from Neanderthals, suggesting their ancestors, too, interbred with humanity's closest known extinct relatives, report scientists online Oct. 17, 2012, in the journal PLoS One.

The only modern humans whose ancestors did not interbreed with Neanderthals are apparently sub-Saharan Africans, researchers say.

New findings suggest modern North Africans carry genetic traces from Neanderthals, modern humanity's closest known extinct relatives.

Although modern humans are the only surviving members of the human lineage, others once roamed the Earth, including the Neanderthals. Genetic analysis of these extinct lineages’ fossils has revealed they once interbred with our ancestors, with recent estimates suggesting that Neanderthal DNA made up 1 percent to 4 percent of modern Eurasian genomes. Although this sex apparently only rarely produced offspring, this mixing was enough to endow some people with the robust immune systems they enjoy today.


The Neanderthal genome revealed that people outside Africa share more genetic mutations with Neanderthalsthan Africans do. One possible explanation is that modern humans interbred with Neanderthals mostly after the modern lineage began appearing outside Africa at least 100,000 years ago. Another, more complex scenario is that an African group ancestral to both Neanderthals and certain modern human populations genetically split from other Africans beginning about 230,000 years ago. This group then stayed genetically distinct until it eventually left Africa.

To shed light on why Neanderthals appear most closely related to people outside Africa, scientists analyzed North Africans. Some researchers had suggested these groups were the sources of the out-of-Africa migrations that ultimately spread humans around the globe.

The researchers focused on 780,000 genetic variants in 125 people representing seven different North African locations. They found North Africans had dramatically more genetic variants linked with Neanderthals than sub-Saharan Africans did. The level of genetic variants that North Africans share with Neanderthals is on par with that seen in modern Eurasians.

The scientists also found this Neanderthal genetic signal was higher in North African populations whose ancestors had relatively little recent interbreeding with modern Near Eastern or European peoples. That suggests the signal came directly from ancient mixing with Neanderthals, and not recent interbreeding with other modern humans whose ancestors might have interbred with Neanderthals. [10 Mysteries of the First Humans]

"The only modern populations without Neanderthal admixture are the sub-Saharan groups," said researcher Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogeneticist at the Institute of Evolutionary Biology at Barcelona, Spain.

The researchers say their findings do not suggest that Neanderthals entered Africa and made intimate contact with ancient North Africans. Rather, "what we are saying is that the contact took place outside Africa, likely in the Near East, and that there was a back migration into Africa of some groups that peopled North Africa, likely replacing or assimilating some ancestral populations," Lalueza-Fox told LiveScience.

This research also suggests that North African groups were not the source of the out-of-Africa migrations. Rather, other groups, perhaps out of East Africa, might have led this diaspora.

The scientists detailed their findings Oct. 17 in the journal PLoS ONE.


Holy shit! I have only this to say. I have kinda big lips for a cracker and a big head and fairly wide nose (ugh -- bane of my existence -- doesn't mean I'm ugly, I just have possible features that may mean "something") . My family comes from I guess the area the Neanderthals basically were if you were to go back, way back. But what does it for me in reading this, is that I maybe am expressing these Neanderthal "traits". I am a full head taller than my dad and probably triple that of my mom. A head taller than my brother. Taller than anyone in my extended family. And get this, I also do not get sick. Knock on wood. But I don't. I've never had the flu. I got mono once, lasted a week. Colds last half a day -- haven't had one in at least two years and I work around germs -- fingers in glasses on utensils and etc. I'm certainly not "bragging", but it got me to thinking, that immune system caveat.
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby NeonLX » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:07 pm

Big head here too. Scares little kids. It's so lengthy that I can't find bike helmets that will fit it. But I wouldn't wear one anyway.

Sheesh, I've got a big honkin' nose as well.
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby beeline » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:46 pm

I did, I think her name was Anne, and I've tried my best to foget that drunken experience. Thanks for the reminder!
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby jcivil » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:22 pm

The answer to the question posed seems clear from the article.

Black Africans are the only non-neaderthals.

The only pure humans are black folk.

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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:06 am

Great article and title, slad, thanks for posting it and everyone for their humorous comments. Got a hearty laugh from that, fish. Good job, as usual.

82, Neon,

in HoL's absence, allow me:

Blessed be those

with a fairly wide nose.


I have to say, seeing the Australopithecus in barracuda's foto I imagined him signing this:

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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby Luther Blissett » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:58 pm

Harvard geneticist George Church recently told Der Spiegel he's close to developing the necessary technology to clone a Neanderthal, at which point all he'd need is an "adventurous human woman" to act as a surrogate mother.

It's not out of the question at all. As MIT Technology Review's Susan Young points out, scientists cloned an extinct subspecies of ibex in 2009. It died immediately, sure. But they still cloned it.

What would that entail? According to a 2008 study of a Neanderthal infant skeleton (from which the above image is taken), "the head of the Neanderthal newborn was somewhat longer than that of a human newborn because of its relatively robust face," and Neanderthal women generally had a wider birth canal than human women. Neanderthal birth was simpler than human birth, because Neanderthal infants didn't have to rotate to get to the birth canal, but otherwise the processes were very similar. (Even so, I imagine all but the most adventurous of human women would opt for a C-section in this case.)

Once the baby's out, though, you're in good shape — Neanderthal babies are thought to have grown much more quickly than their human counterparts.


http://gawker.com/5977130/could-you-be- ... 0000-years
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby LilyPatToo » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:37 pm

Vindication, at last. I've been an anthropology buff for as long as I can remember and when new neighbors moved in across the street back when I was in jr. high, I got the most fascinating looking new friend. He was a huge (literally hulking) boy with classic Neanderthal features and build. Looked like a genetic throwback, with that distinctive forward thrust of the center of his face (I now think of it as the Darth Vader look), wide nose and big brow ridges. We must have looked funny walking to school together, but the bullies actually left me alone for the years that he lived there. He was very gentle and quiet and I've always wondered if his Neanderthal ancestors were too...?

Since he was adopted, there was no way to figure out where his unusual features and robust frame came from, which frustrated the heck out of me. I wish I could remember his name, but my wonky memory has failed at that for decades. I'd love to know if he had that bulge at the back of the cranium that Neanderthals had, but his hair was too thick for it to have shown, if he did.

Back in the mid-90s, we went on several Neanderthal digs in Israel and visited museums on days off. The scientists on the dig didn't believe in interbreeding between humans and Neanderthals back then, so we went 'round and 'round about the skulls on display that (to me) could only have been from hybrid individuals. I'm really glad that opinion has changed. I *loved* excavating their living areas and handling their tools. They were fascinating people, our cousins.

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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby harry ashburn » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:15 am

hey lili...i assume you're familiar with the "Coelho child" and other 'hybrids'?
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Re: The Real Question: Who Didn't Have Sex with Neanderthals

Postby justdrew » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:23 am

Luther Blissett wrote:
Harvard geneticist George Church recently told Der Spiegel he's close to developing the necessary technology to clone a Neanderthal, at which point all he'd need is an "adventurous human woman" to act as a surrogate mother.

It's not out of the question at all. As MIT Technology Review's Susan Young points out, scientists cloned an extinct subspecies of ibex in 2009. It died immediately, sure. But they still cloned it.

What would that entail? According to a 2008 study of a Neanderthal infant skeleton (from which the above image is taken), "the head of the Neanderthal newborn was somewhat longer than that of a human newborn because of its relatively robust face," and Neanderthal women generally had a wider birth canal than human women. Neanderthal birth was simpler than human birth, because Neanderthal infants didn't have to rotate to get to the birth canal, but otherwise the processes were very similar. (Even so, I imagine all but the most adventurous of human women would opt for a C-section in this case.)

Once the baby's out, though, you're in good shape — Neanderthal babies are thought to have grown much more quickly than their human counterparts.


http://gawker.com/5977130/could-you-be- ... 0000-years


meh. he can't get any mitochondrial DNA, anyway I find it very hard to believe he's got a complete genome.
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