Guns (Yawn)

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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Cordelia » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:31 pm

FourthBase » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:01 pm wrote:
Iamwhomiam » 05 Mar 2020 21:12 wrote:Seems a bit ludicrous, a man who owns guns complaining his rights to gun ownership are somehow being infringed. Aside a foolish stunt when a juvenile, and a bar fight, the 26 year old man who murdered six, including my son, and wounded two before eating his shotgun, and had legally possessed his weapons, could have said the same thing as the guy in the video right up to the minute he fired his first shot. That's a big part of the problem: nobody legally owning a gun is a bad guy with a gun until they decide to become a bad guy with a gun.


Would you feel less pain if your son ...


:shock: JFC. In participatory conversations, I don't think I've ever seen, heard, read anything as offensive and insensitive as this and what you continued with. I'd recommend getting a grip on yourself and apologize to Iam but doubt you can get a grip for very long and a sincere "mea culpa" isn't possible. What you wrote is so beyond the pale here, why don't you ban yourself from the board?
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby FourthBase » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:41 pm

Please point out for us anything I wrote that is untrue. Please point out for us where I offered my opinion on the ban, or on any of our constitution's amendments, because I sure don't remember sharing them anywhere in my comment. Are you actually attempting to argue the legal gun owner who decides to murder is not part of the problem?

That's a big part of the problem: nobody legally owning a gun is a bad guy with a gun until they decide to become a bad guy with a gun.


It's honestly exactly as simple as I said.

If your son, may whatever gods that be rest his soul, had been killed by some reactionary psycho with a samurai sword, would you want aggressive samurai sword control?

Do you not understand why the right wing would be so paranoid about "gun-grabbers"? The hot woke take on guns the last 10 years is that we should be like Britain or Australia. That would constitute instant civil war. Which those fiends on the right will WIN, hands down, as in, you fucking lefties won't even be able to put up a decent fight, because you don't have any guns.

Jesus kee-fucking-rist all-fucking-mighty.

Are you people really this dense, this blind?

Worth repeating:

The right wing will win that war, brutally.
And then we will be ruled by right-wingers
Who make Trump look like Bayard Rustin.

Is that your dream? No, it's your worst fucking nightmare! Are you so stupid as to bring about your own worst nightmare by incompetently evaluating the situation? Like a hostage situation, more or less. And no I do not have figurative Stockholm Syndrome, because I'm just as scared of the prospect as you...or, rather, as you would be if you weren't so goddamned blind.

Wake up!
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby FourthBase » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:43 pm

Yawn indeed.

Iamwhomiam is EXPLICITLY TELLING US THAT HE FEELS A CERTAIN WAY ABOUT GUNS BECAUSE HIS SON WAS KILLED BY A GUN AND I MERELY ASK HIM HOW HE WOULD FEEL IF HIS SON WAS KILLED BY A SWORD INSTEAD AND THAT'S BANNABLE IN YOUR EYES?

WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:06 pm

FourthBase » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:41 pm wrote:
Please point out for us anything I wrote that is untrue. Please point out for us where I offered my opinion on the ban, or on any of our constitution's amendments, because I sure don't remember sharing them anywhere in my comment. Are you actually attempting to argue the legal gun owner who decides to murder is not part of the problem?

That's a big part of the problem: nobody legally owning a gun is a bad guy with a gun until they decide to become a bad guy with a gun.


It's honestly exactly as simple as I said.

If your son, may whatever gods that be rest his soul, had been killed by some reactionary psycho with a samurai sword, would you want aggressive samurai sword control?

Do you not understand why the right wing would be so paranoid about "gun-grabbers"? The hot woke take on guns the last 10 years is that we should be like Britain or Australia. That would constitute instant civil war. Which those fiends on the right will WIN, hands down, as in, you fucking lefties won't even be able to put up a decent fight, because you don't have any guns.

Jesus kee-fucking-rist all-fucking-mighty.

Are you people really this dense, this blind?

Worth repeating:

The right wing will win that war, brutally.
And then we will be ruled by right-wingers
Who make Trump look like Bayard Rustin.

Is that your dream? No, it's your worst fucking nightmare! Are you so stupid as to bring about your own worst nightmare by incompetently evaluating the situation? Like a hostage situation, more or less. And no I do not have figurative Stockholm Syndrome, because I'm just as scared of the prospect as you...or, rather, as you would be if you weren't so goddamned blind.

Wake up!


First off, you are ruled by right-wingers.

They won't win if it gets to a civil war. The crazy-ass civil war fantasizing fuckwits with an arsenal in their basement are the minority, and most of them are just insecure little man-babies with a murder-stick fetish who will run crying when things get really bad.

If/when there's a civil war between the crazy right and the sane parts of the country the sane parts will win, because people will realize just how fucked up those people really are when they start shooting shit up at scale and stomp them hard. It will devolve into a low-key insurgency with the crazies hiding out in the woods, occasionally popping up to blow up a Planned Parenthood clinic, and the rest of the country will get on with life, happy that it's finally okay to shoot the dumb fuckers.

Also: what Cordelia said. Jesus Christ you're fucked up.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:12 pm

.

Dear All,

Jeff made me the manager of this board months ago. At the time I had an announcement in mind, but I kept putting it off. I wasn't expecting to make it in this thread.

Soon after Jeff appointed me, I asked 82_28 to step back as mod so that Elvis would be the sole moderator. 82_28 agreed. This resolved the disagreement on moderation between them, which many of you will remember.

That was my only action until now.

Elvis has moderated the board since then on his own, though he has sometimes asked me what I think. I've always agreed with his suggestions. Honestly, I never had the time for this work, and this is why I let it all be.

The main problems that made me ask Jeff if he would make me the board admin/mod stopped on their own, or because of Elvis's decisions as mod.

So I haven't actually done anything else with my authorities until this moment. 4B's behavior, not for the first time, is not acceptable on this board. He is banned for a month, provisionally, and probably for good.

I say that because it is also up to Elvis, as we have agreed this board will be a dual monarchy. I was also supposed to show him my first post as co-monarch in advance, but this situation demanded immediate attention.

I guess I'll have to finally draft the official announcement regarding changes on RI. It won't be very dramatic.

But right here and now, I had to enforce this:

The ugly spectacle of bullying someone about their deceased relatives is not acceptable.

Apologies to iam.

More later. Sorry.

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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Cordelia » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:19 pm

^^^ :thumbsup
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Harvey » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:12 pm

JackRiddler » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:12 pm wrote:But right here and now, I had to enforce this:

The ugly spectacle of bullying someone about their deceased relatives is not acceptable.

Apologies to iam.

More later. Sorry.

.



Thanks. Nothing else you could do.
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You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Elvis » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:48 pm

I affirm Jack's action here; I was going to finish reading the thread and do the same.

Remember folks, the Alert button is there to let us know when a problem arises.

Iam, I salute your strength of spirit and character.


JackRiddler » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:12 am wrote:.

Dear All,

Jeff made me the manager of this board months ago. At the time I had an announcement in mind, but I kept putting it off. I wasn't expecting to make it in this thread.

Soon after Jeff appointed me, I asked 82_28 to step back as mod so that Elvis would be the sole moderator. 82_28 agreed. This resolved the disagreement on moderation between them, which many of you will remember.

That was my only action until now.

Elvis has moderated the board since then on his own, though he has sometimes asked me what I think. I've always agreed with his suggestions. Honestly, I never had the time for this work, and this is why I let it all be.

The main problems that made me ask Jeff if he would make me the board admin/mod stopped on their own, or because of Elvis's decisions as mod.

So I haven't actually done anything else with my authorities until this moment. 4B's behavior, not for the first time, is not acceptable on this board. He is banned for a month, provisionally, and probably for good.

I say that because it is also up to Elvis, as we have agreed this board will be a dual monarchy. I was also supposed to show him my first post as co-monarch in advance, but this situation demanded immediate attention.

I guess I'll have to finally draft the official announcement regarding changes on RI. It won't be very dramatic.

But right here and now, I had to enforce this:

The ugly spectacle of bullying someone about their deceased relatives is not acceptable.

Apologies to iam.

More later. Sorry.

.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:21 am

I've asked our moderators to please not suspend 4thB for his insensitive remarks, so while I hope they don't, there's no guarantee they won't. I hold no animosity towards 4th Base, none at all. I'd like to take a moment or two to offer him a more meaningful response and to clear up any misunderstand he or anyone else has of my views on gun control.

I feel more informed than many on the subject and believe I fully understand the arguments put forth by both sides, those we define as pro-gunners, pro-2nd Amendment, and gun owner rights activists and those who hold views considered contrary to the former, we term this group as anti-gun, anti- 2nd Amendment, and gun control activists. Gun control activists feel controls of guns to be reckless and need strengthening; some from this group want to see what we term as assault weapons banned, as they were not too long ago. Pro-gunners see these folks as their enemies who want to strip them of their rights and then strip them of their guns.

There are extremists to be found in both camps. Some pro-gunners are content with a .22 pistol, to shoot varmints, (whatever they are) or for target shooting, and have no desire to possess any other firearm. Often, a homeowner might want a firearm for home protection. (A shotgun imo would be best for this purpose, if you're so inclined.) Then there's the guy with money, the collector, who only wants the rarest of firearms, and may own hundreds of weapons. He might also engage in hunting "sports," but could be a vegan who abhors such sport. (Yeah, that's a stretch!) And we have many others who own their weapons for all sorts of reasons, good and bad, and then we have the special group of weekend warriors, the Erik Prince fans. This last grouping runs the gamut in number of weapons owned in various calibers available of every type of firearm manufactured, from the single shot 22 rifle to the fully automatic M4.

Those seeking more effective gun control believe simple remedies will not infringe upon gun owners rights and are hoping better controls will lower the body count from misused firearms and hope to reduce the illegal flow of guns from states with weak gun controls. A great many of this group are people who have lost loved ones from the use or misuse of a firearm. I am one of those.

I have never felt the need to own a firearm for protection. I was proficient in a style of martial arts and confident. Now I've become old and have grown more frail, but I still don't feel a need to own a firearm. If I ever wanted to target shoot, my LL has a great set of steel targets out back and could join him on one of his many trips up the hill to his targets with his grandson. They've legally been toting firearms concealed for years and love their ARs, which are wickedly powerful.

Let me introduce you to an old friend of mine, Mel Bernstein, sometimes called Dragon Man because of a fire-breathing dragon bike he built some 50 years ago, when I knew him. Pro-gunners may already be familiar with Mel, The Most Armed Man in America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0vpzpjKVsw

Mel has a great museum.

My personal feeling on gun control is that we need to institute a federal licensing system that would enable legal gun owners to travel with their weapons across state lines. A universal background check mechanism administered by the FBI must be incorporated and an applicant seeking to own any firearm or rifle must first pass a firearms training course, preferably one administered by the FBI, before being permitted to purchase any weapon from any dealer or private seller. Safe storage should be made law and I do think it would be wise to mandate all firearm owners maintain liability insurance of a significant amount.

The fascination with the AR-15 should be well understood as a marketing success. Even if a ban is instituted, a recall will not be successful, so the AR-15 will be with us always, despite the wishes of many for it to disappear forever.

The social programs we need to manage our mentally ill and children at risk are never going to become satisfactorily adequate in our present society. To begin to tackle these issues we need the early intervention of social workers for families at risk, especially those living in areas of concentrated poverty. Early intervention would identify and could ameliorate some of the negative impacts poverty and poor nutrition have upon developing children's bodies and brains. It would also assist families with counseling and respite care when first needed, before a more tragic situation brings about a forced intervention that could destroy the family unit.

So guns will be with us, as will those who use them for all the wrong reasons. And children and adults will continue to be maimed and killed by all sorts of misused firearms.

I'm pretty much a law and order guy, I've shared this before. Of course, with a little give n take. We have one Constitution. You honor it all or you dishonor it by narrowly focusing upon one of its nearly two dozen amendments, as though it mattered above all, Let's get this straight about your constitutional rights being violated, your 2nd amendment rights are somehow being infringed. First, if they were, please explain how the North Carolina ban accomplishes this infringement, if passed. Do you even know what the NC issue is?
Private Citizen Mark Johnson addresses the Greensboro City Council on their plan to ban gun show use of the city owned Coliseum. A fine witness for gun rights supporters!


In this case the city absorbs any potential liability from a mishap, accidental or other, at the city's venue hosting the gun show. It is not unreasonable for the taxpayer to have this concern and it is entirely reasonable to tell the organization sponsoring the show to find a private venue to hold their show.

Secondly, if you understood what it is that is guaranteed by the US constitution, you would understand your rights have to actually be violated, you must suffer some unique harm. If that is the case, then your constitution guarantees you the right to petition the court to sue for relief for whatever harm you've incurred when your rights were infringed. Doesn't guarantee you'll be at all satisfied with their judgment. Oh, It's not a cheap process, btw. So, if you're a poor bloke, get used to having your rights trampled. Right now our constitution is merely a historical relic from a time long past.

Lastly, I must better address your rude comment. Before I do, I cannot be sure of your return, but I wish it to be so, but this point I will not again comment on, so please do not address it, just allow me to have my say and let it be the last words on it.

It is a bit surreal to attempt to analogize a gruesome murder. In truth there can be no possible comparison made. The fellow had a machete with him, along with an AR-15, but they would have been used had he better luck at his earlier target. Good thing they had excellent security. 6 died instead of 60. The rude question you asked is a diversionary tactic often employed by gun lobby advocate, though more often used is the analogy to automobiles. Apples to oranges comparison and utterly irreverently irrelevant.
I wonder, though I do not want you to answer, would you say to a parent who lost an adult child to a car accident, "Would you feel any different if he died from cancer," or its converse? I doubt such a thought would occur to you. Why though, what's the difference?

Although earlier in this thread I once went on a rant wishing guns didn't exist, I've long been on record here as a supporter of our entire US constitution, which includes a citizen's right to possess a firearm.

What might not be with us much longer is our constitution. Scary times we live in.

I hope my explanation suffices, 4thB. Take care and stay well. I'll have no more to say about this.

Another good guy with a gun goes bad:

Two correction officers dead, one survives in murder suicide
Chris Bragg and Brendan J. Lyons
March 9, 2020
Updated: March 9, 2020 6:29 p.m.

UTICA — Two corrections officers were killed and another shot in the head in what police described as a murder-suicide plot involving the three officers who all worked at Marcy Correctional Facility in Oneida County.

It began when a correction officer, Christopher J. Conkling, allegedly confronted Heather J. Mock, also a correction officer whom police said had been Conkling's former fiance, at her home on Elmhurst Road in Utica.

Mock was with another male correction officer, Andrew R. Pruitt, at the private residence when Conkling entered an unsecured back door and shot Pruitt in the head, Utica police said.

Police said Conkling, 38, pointed a gun at Mock's mother but did not fire. He then forced her 35-year-old daughter at gunpoint into a vehicle, and drove her to his nearby residence on Van Rensselaer Road, where he shot and killed her before taking his own life.

Pruitt, 33, survived the shooting, was alert and had been interviewed by Utica police Monday. He is expected to fully recover, police said.

Police were outside Conkling's residence for several hours Monday morning and finally used a remote-operated camera to view the inside of the residence, where they determined that both Mock and Conkling were deceased. Three guns, which were legally owned by Conkling through his job, were recovered, police said.

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Two-correction-officers-dead-one-survives-in-15116715.php
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:59 pm

Another "good guy with a gun becomes a bad guy with a gun who decides to commit murder" story, this one's mentally ill, a bipolar janitor, who decided to stop taking his lithium.

Community center shooter stopped taking medication
March 11, 2020
Updated: March 11, 2020 9:48 a.m.

MARYLAND HEIGHTS, Mo. (AP) — A part-time janitor charged with fatally shooting a supervisor inside a crowded suburban St. Louis community center stopped taking medication to treat his bipolar disorder weeks before opening fire after he was sent home for using profanity, according to search warrants.

Michael Honkomp, 30, had been prescribed lithium but told a 60-year-old co-worker that he had stopped taking his medication before last month 's shooting at the Maryland Heights Community Center, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported. The shooting killed 45-year-old Maria Lucas, a customer service representative who was working the front desk while also serving as the acting supervisor.

The co-worker also told police that Honkomp grew angry with Lucas because she “corrected him for using profanity over the community center radios,” and asked Honkomp to leave work for the day, the search warrant said.

Honkomp then got his coat from the employee locker room, went to the front desk and was recorded on video shooting the victim "in the facial area at point blank range,” the warrants said.

About 150 people were in the community center, many of them children, when the gunfire erupted. A patron ran out and found a uniformed officer in the parking lot. The officer ran into the building and wounded Honkomp in a gun battle in which more than 40 rounds were exchanged. The officer wasn't hurt.

Police seized a 9 mm semiautomatic pistol, which Honkomp is accused of using, at the scene along with two ammunition magazines.

Honkomp, who remains hospitalized, is charged with first-degree murder, first-degree assault on a special victim, resisting arrest and three counts of armed criminal action. No attorney is listed for him in online court records.

His father, Joseph Honkomp, told detectives his son also had been diagnosed in high school with Asperger’s syndrome, the warrants said.

Maryland Heights police chief Bill Carson previously declined to say why the janitor was being sent home or if Lucas was involved in the decision. She was buried last weekend along with her father, who died about a week later from heart and kidney problems.

https://www.timesunion.com/news/crime/article/Warrants-Community-center-shooter-stopped-taking-15122545.php
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:17 am

11:50 pm March 25 2021. 15 years ago at this hour I was to learn my son was unaccounted for many hours after the mass murder that took place at an afterparty he attended in Seattle early this morning, at 7am. 3 minutes ~ 7 lives lost, two wounded, dozens of traumatized survivors.

Mother Jones

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America

Mark Follman, Gavin Aronsen, and Deanna Pan Updated: March 22, 2021, 9:00 p.m. PDT

In July 2012, in the aftermath of the movie theater massacre in Aurora, Colorado, Mother Jones created a first-of-its-kind open-source database documenting mass shootings in the United States. Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/

Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and March 2021, by state

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811541/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-state/

List of mass shootings in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#Summary
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:23 am

SCOTUS renders opinion on NYS concealed carry case, removing state authority to regulate issuance of concealed carry permits. This ruling also impacts several other states with similar firearm laws.

NEW YORK STATE RIFLE & PISTOL ASSOCIATION,
INC., ET AL. v. BRUEN, SUPERINTENDENT OF NEW
YORK STATE POLICE, ET AL.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/slipopinion/21 ( see #54; dated 6/23/22; Docket #20-843 )

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-843_7j80.pdf
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:59 pm

I always watch videos and movies at 1.5x speed, though some British speakers I have to slow to 1.25x or less in order to understand them. I'm really interested in only sharing with you the opening advertisement and the crystal ball video introduction, and the video's closing scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7WwrMgGTzo

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