Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:48 am

North Korea puts rockets on standby to 'mercilessly strike' the U.S.

(CNN) -- North Korea's leader approved a plan to prepare standby rockets to hit U.S. targets, state media said Friday, after American stealth bombers carried out a practice mission over South Korea.

In a meeting with military leaders early Friday, Kim Jong Un "said he has judged the time has come to settle accounts with the U.S. imperialists in view of the prevailing situation," the state-run KCNA news agency reported.

The rockets are aimed at U.S. targets, including military bases in the Pacific and in South Korea, it said.

"If they make a reckless provocation with huge strategic forces, (we) should mercilessly strike the U.S. mainland, their stronghold, their military bases in the operational theaters in the Pacific, including Hawaii and Guam, and those in South Korea," KCNA reported.

North Korean state media carried a photo of Kim meeting with military officials Friday. In the photo, the young leader is seated, leafing through documents with four uniformed officers standing around him.

On the wall behind them, a map titled "Plan for the strategic forces to target mainland U.S." appears to show straight lines stretching across the Pacific to points on the continental United States.

South Korea and the United States are "monitoring any movements of North Korea's short, middle and middle- to long-range missiles," South Korean Defense Ministry Spokesman Kim Min-seok said Friday.

Kim's regime has unleashed a torrent of threats in the past few weeks, and U.S. officials have said they're concerned about the recent rhetoric.

"I think their very provocative actions and belligerent tone, it has ratcheted up the danger, and we have to understand that reality," Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Thursday at a news briefing.

Some observers have suggested that Washington is adding to tensions in the region by drawing attention to its displays of military strength on North Korea's doorstep, such as the flights by the B-2 stealth bombers.

Hagel argued against that assertion.

"We, the United States and South Korea, have not been involved in provocating anything," he said. "We, over the years, have been engaged with South Korea on joint exercises. The B-2 flight was part of that."

Washington and its allies "are committed to a pathway to peace," Hagel said. "And the North Koreans seem to be headed in a different direction here."

But Pentagon spokesman George Little said it was important to remain calm and urged North Korea to "dial the temperature down."

"No one wants there to be war on the Korean Peninsula, let me make that very clear," he told CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront" on Thursday.

Amid the uneasy situation, China, a key North Korean ally that expressed frustration about Pyongyang's latest nuclear test, also called for calm.

"We hope relevant parties can work together to turn around the tense situation in the region," Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hong Lei said Friday, describing peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula as "a joint responsibility."

Behind North Korea's heated words about missile strikes, one analyst said, there might not be much mettle.

North Korea's threat: Five things to know

"The fact is that despite the bombast, and unless there has been a miraculous turnaround among North Korea's strategic forces, there is little to no chance that it could successfully land a missile on Guam, Hawaii or anywhere else outside the Korean Peninsula that U.S. forces may be stationed," James Hardy, Asia-Pacific editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly, wrote in an opinion column published Thursday on CNN.com.

North Korea's latest threat Friday morning came after the United States said Thursday that it flew two stealth bombers over South Korea in annual military exercises.

The mission by the B-2 Spirit bombers, which can carry conventional and nuclear weapons, "demonstrates the United States' ability to conduct long-range, precision strikes quickly and at will," a statement from U.S. Forces Korea said.

The North Korean state news agency described the mission as "an ultimatum that they (the United States) will ignite a nuclear war at any cost on the Korean Peninsula."

The North has repeatedly claimed that the U.S.-South Korean military exercises are tantamount to threats of nuclear war against it.

The disclosure of the B-2 flights came a day after North Korea said it was cutting a key military hotline with South Korea, provoking fresh expressions of concern from U.S. officials about Pyongyang's recent rhetoric.

Tensions escalated on the Korean Peninsula after the North carried out a long-range rocket launch in December and an underground nuclear test last month, prompting the U.N. Security Council to step up sanctions on the secretive government.

U.S. officials concerned about North Korea's 'ratcheting up of rhetoric'

Pyongyang has expressed fury about the sanctions and the annual U.S.-South Korean military exercises, due to continue until the end of April.

The deteriorating relations have killed hopes of reviving multilateral talks over North Korea's nuclear program for the foreseeable future. Indeed, Pyongyang has declared that the subject is no longer up for discussion.

While Kim appears to have spurned the prospect of dialogue with U.S. and South Korean officials, he met with Dennis Rodman during the U.S. basketball star's bizarre recent visit to North Korea.

Sharp increases in tensions on the Korean Peninsula have taken place during the drills in previous years. The last time the North cut off military communications with the South was during similar exercises in March 2009.

North Korea has gone through cycles of "provocative behavior" for decades, Little, the Pentagon spokesman, said Thursday.

"And we have to deal with them. We have to be sober, calm, cool, collected about these periods. That's what we're doing right now," he said. "And we are assuring our South Korean allies day to day that we stand with them in the face of these provocations."

The recent saber-rattling from Pyongyang has included threats of pre-emptive nuclear strikes against the United States and South Korea, as well as the declaration that the armistice that stopped the Korean War in 1953 is null and void.

On Tuesday, the North said it planned to place military units tasked with targeting U.S. bases under combat-ready status.

Most observers say North Korea is still years away from having the technology to deliver a nuclear warhead on a missile, but it does have plenty of conventional military firepower, including medium-range ballistic missiles that can carry high explosives for hundreds of miles.
,
Little said Thursday that the United States was keeping a close eye on North Korea's missile capabilities.

"The important thing is for us to stay out ahead of what we think the North Korean threat is, especially from their missile program," he said. "They've been testing more missiles, and they've been growing their capabilities and we have to stay out ahead."


http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Here's what bothers me. I am not scared, even here in Seattle -- the nearest place in the lower 48 to NK -- but there is something within me (a pacifist) that would welcome a strike against NK, wiping their military off the map. What is wrong with me? I want to see our military wiped off the map as it is. NK does probably "have some accounts to settle". I am not super familiar with the ins and outs of the international political implications should "war" or a strike break out. However, what is NK thinking? Wouldn't, couldn't they be quickly annihilated? I would imagine so. So what's the take here? Drawing China into something with the USA? Wouldn't China side with the USA as trading partners? See, I have no idea.

Here's another thing, I don't think that a war against NK would provoke the nationalist "retard" fervor of 10 years ago, but perhaps it would. However, should NK attack the USA mainland, Japan, South Korea etc, would you not with heavy heart support an attack to get rid of NK once and for all or would it cause essentially a further false flag conflagration? Also, if they could strike the west coast of the USA they would be fucking with the largest and most normalized communities of Asians and Caucasians, Hispanics, African, Middle Eastern and on and on there is on planet Earth in all of the Pacific cities. Not only that, our military is highly socially integrated. What are they/we thinking?

And as a side WTF is up with Dennis Rodman and the Harlem Globetrotters visiting there a few weeks ago? What does/did that mean? I'm confused and that's probably the point in some way.

What is going to happen? Will it just blow over? I just don't get it.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:02 am

There will surely be a dust up with South Korea....
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:13 am

Just the South Korean company Samsung could probably destroy NK with both hands behind it's back.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby ShinShinKid » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:57 am

I am not sure of the numbers anymore, but there are something like 500K + U.S. non-combatants, read again, spouses and children of military personnel within quick range of NK artillery.
I, for one, would not like to see a first strike by the North Korean military. Much of the Korean peninsula would be devastated, including Seoul, Pusan, and of course, Pyongyang.
As far as military prowess goes, both North and South are not to be trifled with. The South Koreans can and will bristle with the same burning rage that is currently consuming the North if a strike occurs.
I think that only ally the north has left is China, but they are not exactly all the way behind some of the current shenanigans of the new regime.
I would like to see the North Korean military absorbed by a new unified Korean state. I am quite sure they would appreciate the food, technology, and political system offered by the South and their allies. Dinner! More than twice a week?
In the actions of this new leader, we are seeing the "hungry ghost". His people are hungrier than we can imagine, and it's getting harder to keep them under control.
Well played, God. Well played".
User avatar
ShinShinKid
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: Home
Blog: View Blog (26)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby Elihu » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:10 pm

....What is wrong with me?...So what's the take here? ...See, I have no idea.

...What are they/we thinking?

..What does/did that mean? I'm confused and that's probably the point in some way.

What is going to happen? Will it just blow over? I just don't get it.


well it is sad and painful, but try to hug and kiss goodbye all the omitted notions as being in any way organically legitimate. try to think of it as a business board game. smoky room deals. ad campaigns. target marketing. focus groups, performance metrics, capital allocation. return on investment etc. it's a strange game because although the card holders play it in the abstract the game pieces do exist here in meatspace and respond accordingly. so basically i'm inviting you over to visit my game-square of confusion. but only if you prefer one emotion (cynicism) to the kaleidoscope of many. it won't help you with the fear of being blown up though. that's an independent variable...
Elihu
 
Posts: 1237
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:18 pm

It just occurred to me. As far as appeasement and a win/win, why not use that crazy building in Pyongyang that is partially built as the "new" HQ for the UN?

It is the "United Nations" is it not? There is an equally creepy building in NY that exists which the self same structure in NK could maybe not easily (but easy enough) be converted into either a satellite or bonafide place for there to be assemblies of the UN.
Image

Image

You could conceivably appease NK and also jump start the economy there and totally wipe out the dictatorial regime in one fell swoop. Solutions, solutions.

I guess war and rumors of war are all we are ever going to face in our shared time on Earth instead.

Just throwing that out there. Planting seeds, as Bill Hicks put it.

Edit: It would be a deal they couldn't refuse as far as the narrative we know that is currently playing out. "The USA wishes to not harm anybody and as a gift we insist that People's Democratic of North Korea house the United Nation's General Assembly." Somewhere and somehow I sense a double bind in that little bit of ridiculous speculation of the "what-ifs".
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby Perelandra » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:33 pm

82_28 wrote:I guess war and rumors of war are all we are ever going to face in our shared time on Earth instead.
Jesus called that one long ago.

If your title is a legitimate question, the answer is no. You're just noticing the only strategy they have, which is teh crazy.

Unification seems inevitable, but who knows the timeframe. I don't know, JMO.
“The past is never dead. It's not even past.” - William Faulkner
User avatar
Perelandra
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:12 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby elfismiles » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:31 pm

"The images show a chart marked "US mainland strike plan" and missile trajectories that the NK News web site estimates terminate in Hawaii, Washington DC, Los Angeles and what they claim is Austin, Texas."

.... much more likely San Antonio which has many more military bases ... or maybe Fort Hood. Or maybe the ship channel near Houston.

:frightened: well ... not really ... more like :uncertain:


North Korea plan to attack US mainland revealed in photographs
North Korea has revealed its plans to strike targets in Hawaii and the continental United States in photos taken in Kim Jong-un's military command centre.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... raphs.html

Image
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby DrVolin » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:24 pm

This is a more worrisome tantrum than we usually get.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
DrVolin
 
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby kelley » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:24 pm

the north korean state does not even possess the capability to feed its own people.

control of the mineral deposits found in the asian seabeds bordered by korea, japan, russia, and china? yes, samsung is indeed a player here.
kelley
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:49 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby DrVolin » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:41 pm

Their nuclear tests so far have been small. Very small. Which is why I think the Americans are worried.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
DrVolin
 
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re:

Postby 82_28 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:20 pm

Perelandra wrote:
82_28 wrote:I guess war and rumors of war are all we are ever going to face in our shared time on Earth instead.
Jesus called that one long ago.

If your title is a legitimate question, the answer is no. You're just noticing the only strategy they have, which is teh crazy.

Unification seems inevitable, but who knows the timeframe. I don't know, JMO.


What you said is precisely what I meant and yes I was quoting Jesus as well.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby Burnt Hill » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:13 pm

I understand the desire to strike hard and take care of business, particularly if we are hit first. But there is bound to be a giant human toll however war plays out. That belief keeps me from wanting any confrontation with N. Korea. And I dont see them as a realistic threat to the US either. But to answer the question posted, yes, war involving (with?) N.Korea is on the horizon.
User avatar
Burnt Hill
 
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: down down
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby Nordic » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:35 pm

Here's a sober and non America-centric view of the situation that is a good read:




US to boost anti-ballistic missile systems in Asia Pacific
By Peter Symonds
16 March 2013
US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel announced yesterday that the Pentagon would expand the number of ground-based anti-ballistic missile interceptors deployed in the Asia Pacific region by nearly 50 percent by 2017. An additional 14 interceptors would be based at Fort Greely in Alaska on top of 26 already in place. Another three are already stationed in California.

Hagel seized on North Korea’s nuclear test last month and its satellite launch in December as the pretext for the expansion of US anti-ballistic missile systems. “North Korea, in particular, has recently made advances in its capabilities and has engaged in a series of irresponsible and reckless provocations,” he said.

These comments are completely cynical. The Obama administration is exploiting North Korea’s limited nuclear and missile capability to justify the build-up of sophisticated anti-missile systems throughout the Asia Pacific region that are aimed primarily at countering China’s nuclear arsenal.
In response to additional UN Security Council sanctions earlier this month, the North Korean regime declared that it had the right to defend itself, including through “a pre-emptive nuclear attack against the headquarters of the aggressor.” The Obama administration, however, simply dismissed the threat. Neither Hagel nor any Pentagon official has suggested that Pyongyang actually has the ability to carry out such an attack on Washington.
Moreover, Pentagon plans to expand the number of interceptors predate both the North Korean missile launch and nuclear test. A senior American defence official told the Washington Post that the expansion “had been in the works for about six months.” In other words, North Korea had simply supplied a convenient excuse for the announcement.

Hagel also announced that the US would deploy an additional early warning system to Japan—a sophisticated X-band radar capable of tracking ballistic missiles. The US already has one such installation in northern Japan and is planning the second in the south of the country.

The Pentagon leaked details of its anti-ballistic missile plans to the Wall Street Journal last August (See: “US to expand anti-missile systems in Asia”). According to that report, the US is also seeking to build a third X-band radar installation in South East Asia, possibly in the Philippines. Each additional early warning system greatly enhances the US military’s ability to track the trajectory of ballistic missiles and thus destroy them with interceptors.
The US is developing and building these anti-ballistic missile systems in close collaboration with its major allies in Asia, especially Japan. In addition to long-range land-based interceptors in North America, the US and Japan have ship-based anti-missile systems and are seeking to enhance their capacities.

The US navy recently boosted the number of its Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers in waters off the Korean Peninsula, as part of joint exercises with South Korea. The US military also has Patriot missile batteries in South Korea.
To suggest that the US is spending tens of billions of dollars on anti-ballistic missile defences to counter the threat from North Korea—and, in the case of the missile defences it is building in Europe, to counter the threat from Iran—is absurd. These systems are primarily aimed at China and Russia, which do have the capability to strike the US with nuclear-armed ballistic missiles.
Speaking to the Wall Street Journal last August, an unnamed senior American official acknowledged that any anti-ballistic missile system aimed at North Korea is also aimed at China, by virtue of geography. “Physics is physics,” he said. “You’re either blocking North Korea and China, or you’re not blocking either of them.”

The claim that these systems are purely defensive is also a lie. Any large-scale nuclear attack by either Russia or China would overwhelm the limited number of US interceptors. Rather, the development of anti-ballistic missile capabilities is a component of an aggressive drive to secure so-called “nuclear primacy”—that is, the ability to launch a first nuclear strike that would devastate an enemy and render them unable to retaliate.
US anti-ballistic missile systems in Asia and Europe are primarily designed to neutralise a limited salvo of missiles, fired by an enemy already badly damaged by a first nuclear strike by the United States.

This is why both Russia and China strenuously object to the deployment of anti-missile systems. In Beijing, yesterday’s announcement by Hagel will only intensify the debate in ruling circles over North Korea. Sections of the Chinese bureaucracy are openly suggesting that its ally, Pyongyang, has become a liability that should be cut loose.
The Chinese critics point out that North Korea’s weapons programs and posturing have not only provided the US and its allies with a pretext for placing anti-ballistic missile systems in Asia. It could also be seized on by Japan and South Korea to build their own nuclear weapons and delivery systems.

Beijing is caught in a dilemma, however. If the North Korean regime, which is heavily dependent on China economically, were to collapse, the result could be a flood of refugees into northern China and potentially the emergence of a pro-US regime on China’s northern border. At this stage, no decision appears to have been taken, but intensifying pressure from Washington makes the issue all the more urgent and explosive.
The US build-up of anti-ballistic missile capacity is part of the Obama administration’s broader “pivot to Asia,” which involves a comprehensive diplomatic effort throughout the region to undermine Chinese influence and consolidate a system of military alliances to encircle China. This is combined with the “rebalancing” of US military forces to Asia as well as within the region to ensure the US has a range of aggressive options—from a naval blockade of China to a full-scale nuclear war.
Beijing is being compelled to respond. In January, the official Chinese news agency Xinhua announced that the military had successfully tested a ground-based ballistic missile interceptor. Air Force expert Fu Qianshao told the media, however, that Chinese systems were still in their infancy and lagged behind the US.

In this area of military technology, as in others, the Obama administration is provoking a dangerous arms race that only increases the danger of war.


Who's the crazy one again ...?



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/0 ... r-m29.html
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Coming Soon -- War With North Korea?

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:17 am

Aw yes, the "could we close to a war with North Korea" or "a war with Iran?" File this under the "someday we'll all finally know the truth about 9/11 and JFK" daydream. Or the "one day we'll have clear cut evidence of UFOs and alien life".

Every few years the "we could be at war with North Korea...no seriously serious, its srz this time gais!" discussion and hype comes up.

Honestly, other than 9/11 and JFK, has America had too many "holy shit stop the presses moments"? When Dolly the sheep was cloned, it was news but it wasn't drop what your doing and turn on the tv worthy.
One of the most shocking things I ever saw live on tv was the Space Shuttle Challenger exploding on tv in 1986.
Ok, I will grant the "bin Laden killed" moment was kind of a doozy and somewhat shocking, tho not completely surprising.

To me this isnt merely Boy Who Cried Wolf. This is another kind of pathology. It's a dance.

Yes, I do believe one day tomorrow or in ten years, some crazy earth shattering news or event will happen. The odds support it. But Im very weary, if not downright eye rollingly meh at the idea we're going to be at war with North Korea. Or Iran.

It's akin to Elaine saying she's going to break up with Puddy for good in the 90's sitcom "Seinfeld".

Image


Also, two reasons I dont want this to happen: I hate war and the deaths of innocents. And two I hate mindlessness. Even a lot the lib'ruls were all "lets get us some Afghan ragheads" after 9/11.
I mean fucking freedom fries. We had "that" moment. When war happens, intelligence goes out the window and splats onto church and barclay.
Oh, also Im Korean...I dont wanna be the new communist/Islamic bad guy
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12243
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 54 guests