Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Simulist » Fri May 17, 2013 4:06 pm

I very much doubt that the "America" we've all believed in, at one time or another, was ever actually real. And I don't think we can ever return to something that really never was. More properly, America exists today as an idea, an aspiration, but it isn't something to look back upon with longing. Here is a question and a non-exhaustive list to illustrate why.

So for the many voices all across America who want to return to this "America," I really have to ask, "Just when did it actually exist?"

• Was it before Americans allowed themselves to be lied into war against Iraq (the second time)?

• Was it before 9/11?

• Was it before Americans allowed themselves to be lied into war against Iraq (the first time)?

• Was it before the Reagan Administration that went to war against the poor and middle classes, and elevated excess to the imagined status of a virtue?

• Was it before the Nixon Administration?

• Was it before Dan Mitrione — with the full blessing and under the auspices of the Central Intelligence Agency — exported torture to South American countries like Uruguay and Brazil, teaching their vicious secret police about torture's "best methods," including genital electrical torture?

• Was it before the murder of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, which was blamed on a probable patsy?

• Was it before the murder of U.S. Senator Robert F. Kennedy, which was blamed on a probable patsy?

• Was it before the murder of U.S. President John F. Kennedy, which was blamed on a probable patsy?

• Was it before President Eisenhower warned Americans about the dangers of the military-industrial complex?

• Was it before MKULTRA?

• Was it before ARTICHOKE?

• Was it before BLUEBIRD?

• Was it before Sidney Gottlieb became director of the CIA Technical Services Staff?

• Was it, in fact, before the CIA was brought officially into existence?

• Was it before the United States bought the ongoing services of ex-Nazis, after World War II, and made them an integral component of its restructured intelligence apparatus?

• Was it before U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt ordered the creation of a US intelligence service, designated the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), under the direction of General William "Wild Bill" Donovan?

• Was it before the Tuskegee syphilis experiments?

• Was it before the age of the Robber Barons and child labor?

• Was it before the vile institution of slavery? Oh — wait! — slavery was permitted in the United States from the very start! You know, right after Europeans started STEALING THIS LAND from its native inhabitants, calling it "The United States of America."

• Was it before THAT?




Edited to make clear that my intention is not to be hurtful to any person including, specifically in this instance, Canadian_watcher.
Last edited by Simulist on Fri May 17, 2013 9:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri May 17, 2013 4:15 pm

^^^

Let America Be America Again

by Langston Hughes
Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.

(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed—
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek—
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean—
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today—O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home—
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay—
Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again—
The land that never has been yet—
And yet must be—the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine—the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME—
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose—
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath—
America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain—
All, all the stretch of these great green states—
And make America again!

-- Langston Hughes
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Fri May 17, 2013 4:19 pm

Thanks, SLAD.

I'd never read that. But I'm glad I have now.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri May 17, 2013 4:25 pm

Really Sim, that's not called for. Most of us have felt the same way at one time or another.

Besides, it's people that make a country and people always act in their own self-interest unless prevented or guided by more moral individuals.

And while I have nothing against you, stickdog, stirring the embers of a fire nearly extinguished was unwarranted. You should have PM Mac your personal to him comment.

And a moderator should have warned you for your attempt to excite unnecessarily.

On edit: Thanks for the Hughes poem, slad. It's been quite awhile since I last read it.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Simulist » Fri May 17, 2013 4:30 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Really Sim, that's not called for. Most of us have felt the same way at one time or another.

Besides, it's people that make a country and people always act in their own self-interest unless prevented or guided by more moral individuals.

And while I have nothing against you, stickdog, stirring the embers of a fire nearly extinguished was unwarranted. You should have PM Mac your personal to him comment.

And a moderator should have warned you for your attempt to excite unnecessarily.

What point of mine do you take issue with? Which one?

Yes, we all long for "the good old days." Clearly, I believe quite strongly that we need to stop.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Fri May 17, 2013 4:41 pm

compared2what? wrote:
stickdog99 wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:c2w, I have your MO sussed now. Your war-of-attrition shtick is getting old, and it is no kind of dialogue. It is just relentlessly and stupidly insulting. (I knew you would accuse me of thinking I was Zola. I knew you would claim I claimed to have proof of Dzhokhar T's innocence. Etcetera, ad nauseam.) It is worth nobody's time. So stop wasting my time and everyone else's.


Took you long enough.


Substantive.

Also: You made it clear you didn't want to interact with me back on page 72. I sent you an apology via PM and stopped bothering you.*** So what's your fucking excuse for being a douche now, exactly? And wtf qualifies as an act of consideration with you if honoring your expressed preferences doesn't?

I already said: My MO is to say what I think and feel, giving my reasons for both as I go.

....

Seriously, dude. WTF justified that? Keep your bile to yourself.
_____________

***ON EDIT: Which I'll now go back to doing, amiably. I'm not a grudge-holder. But that was mean.


C2W,

Who are you talking to here, Mac, or Stickdog? I ask because if you're speaking to Mac, his quote is from a post that he made almost a week ago, and you already responded to it, again, almost a week ago, so I'm wondering why it's being dredged up now.

Either way, the "douche" comment isn't helping the thread at all, and could easily be considered a personal attack, so please reign it in a bit.
"Arrogance is experiential and environmental in cause. Human experience can make and unmake arrogance. Ours is about to get unmade."

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri May 17, 2013 4:49 pm

It was your reprimand, generally. Unnecessary.

If your attempt was to teach, I don't think it was, but that's not teaching.

If your attempt was to humiliate, as I think it was, it was unnecessary.

Let it go. Let's move forward without personal insults. I think too much of you to read such from you. From others it is expected, but always unnecessary. Let's try to stay on the high road and far above the mud.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Fri May 17, 2013 4:57 pm

Bruce Dazzling wrote:Who are you talking to here, Mac, or Stickdog? I ask because if you're speaking to Mac, his quote is from a post that he made almost a week ago, and you already responded to it, again, almost a week ago, so I'm wondering why it's being dredged up now.


As I understand it, it got dredged up because Stickdog, to whom I was responding, raised the issue in a post that was 100 percent dedicated to the highly substantive issue of saying a nasty personal thing about me.

Either way, the "douche" comment isn't helping the thread at all, and could easily be considered a personal attack, so please reign it in a bit.


Okay. Sorry. I'll go back to the amiable non-grudge-holding,.

_____________

Honestly. If you say I'm at fault, I believe you and I'm sorry. But I'm not sure I get your reasoning. So PM me with what I'm missing.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:01 pm

Defense loses motion to take its own photos of accused prisoner to document his physical & mental deterioration

Gotta love a justice system that tries to preclude the advocates of the accused from documenting the results of his prison beatings, questioning sessions and "mental health treatments".
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:09 pm

Hey, folks, I apologize to all.

Basically, I like to read threads like this for information rather than for the back and forth of point by point (personal or at least semi-personal) dialog. This is simply my preference, and I realize that your mileage my vary.

I also realize that I added to what I myself would term clutter, and I regret doing so. Sorry.

Back to the topic.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Simulist » Fri May 17, 2013 5:12 pm

I edited my initial post for clarity, in order that no individual be seen as the focus of my strong-feelings about these matters. Clearly, I do feel strongly about "America" — the historical reality versus the collective aspiration — and for reasons that are personal to me but not intended to be personally-directed.

This thread is in its 150th page. During the time it's taken to get to this page, there has been an undercurrent that "America" is becoming (in a decidedly present-progressive tense) something that it never was: namely, a nation ruled by the few, with power over the many. As if it has never, ever been this thing that it is becoming.

That idea is complete, unadulterated bunk.

Not only is it bunk, but it is also an idea that helps keep us from getting much better, if at all. Now, how does this idea do that? It does that when millions of people believe it, and keep trying to return to us, collectively, to "good old days" that never really were. (Some political parties seem organized around this terrible idea; others seem merely energized by it. Many churches, synagogues, and mosques preach this false idea, a lie, as if it came from the mouth of the Lord.) And as long as we keep trying to go back to a past that never really was — a notably vicious past — our future improvement continues to remain unlikely.

"America" has been built with lie stacked upon lie, and those lies are all mortared together with the cement of blind belief and culpable naïveté.

Until we are made to face our past, in starkly unmistakable terms, WE WILL CONTINUE to repeat it.


Edited for clarity in content.
Last edited by Simulist on Fri May 17, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:20 pm

How about this headline?

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's newly discovered note sheds light on his suspected motive

So they *JUST DISCOVERED* this note scrawled all over the inside of the boat with magic marker!

Sources told CBS News correspondent John Miller that the note would be admissible in the upcoming trial. Tsarnaev is set to appear in court on May 30.

FLOL
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:30 pm

Are they really going to go to the trouble of getting somebody to forge a note in Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's handwriting on the inside of the (a) boat, then riddle the (a) boat with bullet holes, then cut out the piece of the (a) boat to present at court in order to "get around" the fact that all the confessions the unnamed spooks said Dzhokhar shared with them when he could not talk were completely invented, while narratively hiding the lack of any actual post-capture confessions from Dzhokhar by claiming that dozens exist but that they are all inadmissible because he was not Mirandized when he was arrested because of Repuglican twitter pressure?

Seriously?

And people are going to buy that?

Seriously?

(Note that the last three questions are rhetorical.)
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:34 pm

LOL

The writing on the inside of the boat dovetails with what Dzhokhar, 19, told investigators questioning him in a Boston hospital room shortly after his capture, the source said.

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 17, 2013 5:37 pm

More CNN crap

Dzhokhar -- who suffered gunshot wounds to the head, neck, legs and hands (even though he was armed with just a magic marker)-- is being held a federal Bureau of Prisons medical facility in Devens, Massachusetts.

He has been charged with using a weapon of mass destruction and could face the death penalty if convicted.

Tamerlan was secretly buried in a rural Virginia cemetery this month following protests from Massachusetts residents and officials against burying him in that state.
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