Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Mon May 13, 2013 6:34 pm

compared2what? wrote:Has this already been posted? I thought it had. But now I don't see it.

    FBI Chechen Sting May Shed Light on Boston Bombing

    In 2006, a disaffected 22-year-old Chechen living in California spent 18 months trolling radical websites, eventually getting invited into private online forums where he watched bomb-making videos. “Ivan” was actually a 30-something FBI agent named Ernest Hilbert, whose investigation provided federal agents with a window into online grooming that targeted young transplants living in U.S. cities.

    “It used to be that the process had to be physical and now 90 percent or more can happen online,” said Hilbert, 43, now a managing director for Kroll Advisory Solutions, the private security company.

    Law enforcement officials said their early assumption is that the alleged Boston Marathon bombers acted alone and were motivated by a web-based radicalization that turned them from kids next door into self-taught militants willing to injure more than 260 people and kill three, including an eight-year-old boy.

    Hilbert, whose online persona was remarkably similar to the real lives of the two suspects -- brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who arrived from the Russian Caucasus in 2002 -- said “self-taught” doesn’t mean the bombers had no help on their journey to militancy.

More at LINK, just to be on the safe side.

But it was posted, right?



I don't think so ? Good find .
hiddenite
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:39 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Mon May 13, 2013 7:58 pm

hiddenite wrote:Presumably there will some kind of inquest and a more coherent narrative will emerge ?

Someone way back mentioned drill gone live . There is also the possibility that FBI and FSB both suspected each other of running whatever it was they thought they were monitoring or not monitoring.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324244304578475300856008018.html?mod=wsj_streaming_stream

Wall Street Journal Us:Russia withheld intel on Boston bomb suspect , in case the link fails 10 May

It still baffles me that the plot required their capture in some way to reveal or rather obscure their motivation, but reveal their ethnicity . :confused:


Usually, when I think of the Wall Street Journal, I think of it with the disdain of Charlie Sheen in the movie Wall Street. But this article had a lot of good info, though the writer buried the real gold nugget in the 12th paragraph:

Wall Street Journal wrote:Tensions are also rising between the U.S. and Russia over Syria. On Friday—days after U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry met Russian officials in Moscow and raised concerns over Russian arms shipments to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad—the Kremlin said it would go ahead with deliveries of ground-to-air missile systems for the Assad government. The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday that the Russian government was preparing to make such a delivery.


If we follow Sibel Edmonds' hypothesis regarding the Boston Bombings as a pretext to remove Russia as an obstacle to invade Syria, then Russia is not playing ball. Therefore the US no longer has a motive to highlight the evil danger of Chechen rebellion as much as it does Russian incompetence. This could amount to nothing more than she said/she said accusations full of sound and fury, signifying zilch. Except for that investigation being conducted by the newly elected president of Georgia, which as far as I know, has no allegiance toward either Russia or the US, so the FBI and FSB can't hurl too much shit at each other if the Georgian investigation is truly independent. Yes hiddenite, we might very well see a coherent narrative emerge from this mess.
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
User avatar
stillrobertpaulsen
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: California
Blog: View Blog (37)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Mon May 13, 2013 8:07 pm

compared2what? wrote:Has this already been posted? I thought it had. But now I don't see it.

[list]FBI Chechen Sting May Shed Light on Boston Bombing

In 2006, a disaffected 22-year-old Chechen living in California spent 18 months trolling radical websites...



the writer meant trawling not trolling :rofl2
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 pm

justdrew wrote:
compared2what? wrote:Has this already been posted? I thought it had. But now I don't see it.

[list]FBI Chechen Sting May Shed Light on Boston Bombing

In 2006, a disaffected 22-year-old Chechen living in California spent 18 months trolling radical websites...



the writer meant trawling not trolling :rofl2


Good eye.

...

Do you think it might have been a subversive objection to entrapment, due to unallowability by editors when made outright?

Okay, fine. But I don't see what harm it does to pretend it might..

@hiddenite -- Thank Canadian_watcher. Her asking whether governments infiltrated message boards is what reminded me.

__________

ON EDIT: It's also one of the reasons I said "sting gone wrong" a few pages back. I mean, that's not exactly the right phrase for stirring people up and inciting shit that they actually instigate. But you know what I mean. Not quite COINTELPRO, but not far off it.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Tue May 14, 2013 6:28 am

stillrobertpaulsen wrote:
hiddenite wrote:Presumably there will some kind of inquest and a more coherent narrative will emerge ?

Someone way back mentioned drill gone live . There is also the possibility that FBI and FSB both suspected each other of running whatever it was they thought they were monitoring or not monitoring.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324244304578475300856008018.html?mod=wsj_streaming_stream

Wall Street Journal Us:Russia withheld intel on Boston bomb suspect , in case the link fails 10 May

It still baffles me that the plot required their capture in some way to reveal or rather obscure their motivation, but reveal their ethnicity . :confused:


Usually, when I think of the Wall Street Journal, I think of it with the disdain of Charlie Sheen in the movie Wall Street. But this article had a lot of good info, though the writer buried the real gold nugget in the 12th paragraph:

Wall Street Journal wrote:Tensions are also rising between the U.S. and Russia over Syria. On Friday—days after U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry met Russian officials in Moscow and raised concerns over Russian arms shipments to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad—the Kremlin said it would go ahead with deliveries of ground-to-air missile systems for the Assad government. The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday that the Russian government was preparing to make such a delivery.


If we follow Sibel Edmonds' hypothesis regarding the Boston Bombings as a pretext to remove Russia as an obstacle to invade Syria, then Russia is not playing ball. Therefore the US no longer has a motive to highlight the evil danger of Chechen rebellion as much as it does Russian incompetence. This could amount to nothing more than she said/she said accusations full of sound and fury, signifying zilch. Except for that investigation being conducted by the newly elected president of Georgia, which as far as I know, has no allegiance toward either Russia or the US, so the FBI and FSB can't hurl too much shit at each other if the Georgian investigation is truly independent. Yes hiddenite, we might very well see a coherent narrative emerge from this mess.


Sir Rob, Gulen foundation is expanding via it's private school element in Georgia. Read an article about it last week , saying how surprising successful it was in a mostly Christian territory . Middle classes in particular liked the small class size etc for their children . Another article detailed the new assistance and cooperation between Israeli and Gerorgian security services. I should have posted them will research .
hiddenite
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:39 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Tue May 14, 2013 6:40 am

compared2what? wrote:
justdrew wrote:
compared2what? wrote:Has this already been posted? I thought it had. But now I don't see it.

[list]FBI Chechen Sting May Shed Light on Boston Bombing

In 2006, a disaffected 22-year-old Chechen living in California spent 18 months trolling radical websites...



the writer meant trawling not trolling :rofl2


Good eye.

...

Do you think it might have been a subversive objection to entrapment, due to unallowability by editors when made outright?

Okay, fine. But I don't see what harm it does to pretend it might..

@hiddenite -- Thank Canadian_watcher. Her asking whether governments infiltrated message boards is what reminded me.

__________

ON EDIT: It's also one of the reasons I said "sting gone wrong" a few pages back. I mean, that's not exactly the right phrase for stirring people up and inciting shit that they actually instigate. But you know what I mean. Not quite COINTELPRO, but not far off it.


Not sure if it did "go wrong" . ? That assumes we know who's intentions were behind it and what those intentions were. The other players not much considered are FSB and also internal splits amongst the neo-cons and the slightly less neo-cons . Have you read Fuller's responses to the 9/11 commission ? I am sure he hides his hand but he seems to be not a Bush fan and to have a slightly off message response.

William's role I see people are sceptical but may i ask how usual it is for a high school student to be put in email contact with the "world expert" on jihadi terrorism and Chechnya (his attributions fair enough) by his teacher, DT was only 16 at the time ? was that spectacularly gracious of Williams to give him time like that or just the normal thing over there ?

I also should have posted the CAIR article I read , on entrapment and growing concern that mentally unstable Muslims were increasingly being targetted for such stings/trawls/entrapment .
hiddenite
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:39 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed May 15, 2013 5:52 pm

hiddenite wrote:Not sure if it did "go wrong" . ? That assumes we know who's intentions were behind it and what those intentions were. The other players not much considered are FSB and also internal splits amongst the neo-cons and the slightly less neo-cons . Have you read Fuller's responses to the 9/11 commission ? I am sure he hides his hand but he seems to be not a Bush fan and to have a slightly off message response.

William's role I see people are sceptical but may i ask how usual it is for a high school student to be put in email contact with the "world expert" on jihadi terrorism and Chechnya (his attributions fair enough) by his teacher, DT was only 16 at the time ? was that spectacularly gracious of Williams to give him time like that or just the normal thing over there ?


I love your observations, insights and questions, hiddenite. From personal experience, when I was in high school (which was right before Nirvana released Nevermind) I took an Advanced Placement US History course for which I also received college credit. Even though the college through which I received the credit was literally right across the street from the high school, I was never put in contact with any college professor, let alone a "world expert" employed by the CIA. This seems out of the ordinary for most high schools in my time, which was pre-internet, pre-emails, so I'm not sure how much has changed. What I'm wondering is, how many other teachers does Williams have this kind of rapport where he can propagandize educate select high schoolers on Chechen history? Is Steve Matteo the only one?

When you do find that article about the Gulen movement and Georgia, please link it. The only thing I found was something a little scarier: there are three charter schools tied to the Gulen movement in Georgia, but not the country, the state!
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
User avatar
stillrobertpaulsen
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: California
Blog: View Blog (37)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby tigerlilly » Thu May 16, 2013 2:42 am

I wondered why young Tsarnaev attended U. Mass, Dartmouth since he would not appear to have any money for college while he could have attended U. Mass Boston and lived at home. Searching this on the internet I found mention of a high school classmate of his saying originally they were both going to U. Mass Boston and both went to summer orientation together there. When Dhjokar never showed up, his friend asked him why he changed his mind and was told because it was a "better party school." Would this add evidence to the influence of Prof. Brian Williams to get him to attend his school to better recruit him? Is it easy to change schools at the last minute like this without inside help? He would also have had to take out a larger college loan in a hurry.
tigerlilly
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 12:41 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby beeline » Thu May 16, 2013 9:57 am

tigerlilly wrote:I wondered why young Tsarnaev attended U. Mass, Dartmouth since he would not appear to have any money for college while he could have attended U. Mass Boston and lived at home. Searching this on the internet I found mention of a high school classmate of his saying originally they were both going to U. Mass Boston and both went to summer orientation together there. When Dhjokar never showed up, his friend asked him why he changed his mind and was told because it was a "better party school." Would this add evidence to the influence of Prof. Brian Williams to get him to attend his school to better recruit him? Is it easy to change schools at the last minute like this without inside help? He would also have had to take out a larger college loan in a hurry.


Curious.

As far as taking out student loans, it would have depended on his status in relation to his parents. If he were a declared 'independent,' living without parental support, it would have been easier to get a loan from Sallie Mae. Typically, you are considered to be 'dependent' on your parents until you are 25, and while Sallie Mae will cover some of the tuition, usually private loans are needed.

I am unaware as to the difficulty of switching schools within the state system in Massachusetts. If it is like Pennsylvania, it wouldn't be insurmountable to switch campuses, just a pain in the ass, but if you got an early start to it, not impossible.
User avatar
beeline
 
Posts: 2023
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 4:10 pm
Location: Killadelphia, PA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby norton ash » Thu May 16, 2013 11:01 am

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162- ... urces-say/

(CBS News) Boston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev left a note claiming responsibility for the April 13 attack on the Boston Marathon, reports CBS News senior correspondent John Miller.

Sources tell Miller that Tsarnaev wrote the note in the boat he was hiding in as police pursued him, and as he bled from gunshot wounds sustained in an earlier shootout between police and his older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev. It reads as part manifesto, part suicide note, and part justification for the killing and maiming of innocent civilians.

The note -- scrawled with a marker on the interior wall of the cabin -- said the bombings were retribution for U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, and called the Boston victims "collateral damage" in the same way Muslims have been in the American-led wars. "When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," Tsarnaev wrote.

Dzhokar said he didn't mourn older brother Tamerlan, the other suspect in the bombings, writing that by that point, Tamerlan was a martyr in paradise -- and that he expected to join him there soon.


And we're hearing about this now from 'sources'. Guess Dzhokar had his Sharpie with him in the desperate hours.

My intuition calls shenanigans. I want scrawl-writing analysis, anyway.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 16, 2013 3:44 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:


Surgery, perhaps?
stickdog99
 
Posts: 4185
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby 8bitagent » Thu May 16, 2013 4:08 pm

The note -- scrawled with a marker on the interior wall of the cabin -- said the bombings were retribution for U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, and called the Boston victims "collateral damage" in the same way Muslims have been in the American-led wars. "When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," Tsarnaev wrote.


In a way he is right. Think of how many people Bush and (sadly) Obama have gotten killed. Or maimed. Or their pals. 3 trillion dollars in the total "war on terror" (defense/security/energy/handouts)
Untold amounts of dead and wounded innocent Muslims. And what of the tens of thousands of maimed and killed US and coalition troops? What the fuck was it all for? Again Americans were more upset at Janet Jacksons nipple slip than the fact their government openly lied to get them into war. Even from a "globalist" TPTB standpoint, did they even gain from Iraq and Afghanistna...or was it all Joker like chaos for chaos sake?
I guess Western, Gulf and Chinese corporations profited.

Americans are hypocritical as fuck. I mean even Israel, as horrible as they are to Native Israelis(ie: PALESTINIANS), they arent out with massive armies invading country after country and using drones around the world.
To this day neither Bush nor anyone from Obama has issues an apology. Jahar is 100% right I have to say, YET he can never be forgiven for the horror he brought. Especially the dozens of people who will live out the rest of their lives in horrible pain...like, many of the Muslims the US has hurt. Fuck Jahar, fuck the US government.

Yes, I do believe (as it stands) Jahar knew what he was doing and seems quite proud, like Mcveigh, regardless if there was a wider conspiracy or influence. I am angered by his actions, but he also makes a 100% valid point that most people will never get.

If I was rich Id want to unfurl a massive banner down the side of a new york highrise in the middle of rushhour in big letters with the words "Were the wars worth it?" and have giant numbers totally the total Muslim casualities, US casualties, coalition casualties and cost of war. I seriously dont think America's so called liberals, nor American public and certainly not right wing fucktards are angry enough about all these post 9/11 wars
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12199
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 16, 2013 4:33 pm

barracuda wrote:Wow. Did Mac pretty much just totally ignore compared2what?'s massive beat-down on page 126? I guess there really wasn't much choice in the matter, though.


Good observation. I demand a point by point response. leaving no point unresponded to, that fills the rest of this page!
stickdog99
 
Posts: 4185
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 16, 2013 4:37 pm

barracuda wrote:I guess mostly for your inept attempt at characterizing her statements as just about nearly the complete opposite of what she actually said. But really, must we shilly-shally so? I'm not gonna do your work for you. And it's making the thread unreadable. I felt compelled to applaud her reply, leave it at that.


LOL. But the post you are lauding was eminently readable. I was on the edge of my seat!
stickdog99
 
Posts: 4185
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 16, 2013 5:17 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:c2w, I have your MO sussed now. Your war-of-attrition shtick is getting old, and it is no kind of dialogue. It is just relentlessly and stupidly insulting. (I knew you would accuse me of thinking I was Zola. I knew you would claim I claimed to have proof of Dzhokhar T's innocence. Etcetera, ad nauseam.) It is worth nobody's time. So stop wasting my time and everyone else's.


Took you long enough.
stickdog99
 
Posts: 4185
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests