Engagement, Attention, and Death

[dada]

Perhaps we've never really tried to work together before because an open forum isn't necessarily the best way of furthering a post politics, post agenda brainstorming session. I'm not talking about furthering our private projects but perhaps learning how to ask better questions, for a start.

Clearly.

I guess the first thing is, who will take the initiative. I've been giving it some thought, but I don't think it's supposed to be me. I just don't give a shit enough. Or maybe that's a good reason why I should be the one to take the initiative. I don't know. But if anyone else is so inspired, I'd be interested in seeing where it went. I'm alright at asking better questions.

I've had good luck in the past with parallel streams, generally a chat line for collaboration and shit-talking, and a file manager style repository of actual documents and datapoints.

I can see it now, 'RI secret party island' discord server. Group audio stream and shit-talking chatline in one. Simple to start an invisible, influential brain trust, here in the fyuuutcha.

Or we can all twitch stream, like the dopey gamers. Call ourselves the 'Pong fanclub.' Stream Pong, with our little front-facing camera feeds in the corner. No one will pay any attention to us, we'd be hiding in plain sight.

For files? Take your pick, I don't care. Now I'm going to repost the questions. I was going to take a shot at answering them, but I changed my mind. They're just going to fall off the front page again anyway. Good questions, though. They're worth keeping in mind, I think.

What got shaken loose during the past 12 months?
What happened in the past 8 years that got overlooked by everyone, including us?
What can we re-build actual American Majorities around now? I mean, Canadian Majorities.
What are people ready to think about in 2017 that they wouldn't admit to thinking about in 2015?
Where is global capital weakest? Mainstream media? Federal law enforcement?
What if there are no policy-level solutions for the problems we discuss here?
What if "lowering the bar" isn't necessarily bad? What if that creates more opportunities for candidates with fringe beliefs? Like you?
What value does engaging with pop culture have when nobody who loved Stranger Things will read A Terrible Mistake?

And the only serious one I'm posing to us:

What sub-forum should we move the actual research to? No, really.

[MacCruiskeen]

Jesus, this was 3.5 years ago already?

Yes it's poop. I'll own my part of that. It's also human nature, and I'll happily own my part of that as well - the emotion and the anger, and the love, and the amusement, and confusion that conspire to both teach us lessons and deny us understanding and sometimes even forebearance, to our delight and consternation.

But the fact remains that you accepted the position of moderator on this board. And there's more involved in that commitment than simply condescending to very occasionally inform us of the pettiness of our squabbles and the smallness of our pique: you have a responsibility to actually moderate the conversation, that is, to ensure as best you can that the dynamic of personalities does not succumb to the baser impulses of that human nature. You are not a baby sitter, but neither should you be invisible to the members. You must at least marginally be in the fray, have some skin in the game, to do it right, imho.

IMHO. I mean, take it however you want. But if the mods and admin - the smartest among us by some measures - have no interest in participating as conversants, then it won't be long til the madmen run the asylum.

True.

WR's response to all that, in full:

Yes it's poop. I'll own my part of that. It's also human nature, and I'll happily own my part of that as well -

Absolutely true.

The notion that I could "moderate" any of you...less so.

We moderators are not leaders so much as janitors.

If RI expects me to be in the middle of all your arguments, I resign from my position effective immediately. That's a waste of my life, and anyone elses.

1. Janitors don't leave the door open for anyone to come in and poop all over the floor. If they did they would be sacked. Especially if they just smirked at the tenants for being so childish as to complain about it.

2. This board has been entirely unmoderated since Project Willow left. If you are capable of entering a thread to ban someone without warning, or of condescending to the squabbling posters (and you most certainly are), then you are also capable of moderating. The fact that you have never done so (while pretending to, for years) is an enormously large part of the reason why this board has declined to the sorry state it's in now.

3. RI in 2016 is a microcosm of the USA in 2016. People are reluctant to speak up and state the obvious for fear of offending the boss. They think it's pointless. They're not wrong. And if they feel angry or saddened inside, they know you'll find that pretty funny (or touchingly childish) too. And so they have largely given up and left. Because: While they know that you will never moderate (for, as you never tire of repeating: you regard it as beneath your dignity to do so), they also know that you will freely use your Moderator's button to suspend people without the slightest warning whenever you feel like it. The prospect of arbitrary sudden arrest and detention does not encourage free speech. It encourages emigration.

4. For you to complain about the state of the place now is so disingenuous as to be beyond parody. You have played a very major part in running it into the ground, especially in the last couple of years. How could you not have? You have been the only person in charge of it.

Since you yourself bumped this thread again recently, WR, I'll take the liberty of saying this: You have not paid enough attention to any of these things. You have not engaged sufficiently with honest criticisms or questions. You have never seemed much worried at the prospect of RI's death. On the contrary.

Two final questions:

Is Jeff, or are you, losing money on this board?

Was it always intended (or at least expected), after PW's departure, that this place would just quietly wither and die? We should really be told, at long last.

[coffin_dodger]

^ A little harsh, but then - you're not getting your own way. I feel the same when consciously having to force myself not to engage with the Sysprop that AD posts here, unfailingly, every single day, over and over and over again. But conversely, it's the best indicator of system stress we have here at RI, so it's interesting in at least one aspect.

Wombat has a light touch that is best appreciated and evident via his comments, rather than 'direct' moderation. I respect, nay, like that style.

I'm not looking for a fight Mac, just telling it as I see it.

[MacCruiskeen]

^ A little harsh, but then - you're not getting your own way.

Ach, that's nonsense, c_d. Exactly the same things are bugging me as are bugging everyone else here, including you:

I feel the same when consciously having to force myself not to engage with the Sysprop that AD posts here, unfailingly, every single day, over and over and over again.

Thanks. AD is getting his own way, as he has done ever since WR went solo. That's not "light moderation". That's wilful and sustained neglect of the board's welfare. That's WR's active choice, and his responsibility.

It is horrible to waste so much time stating the obvious. I won't state it any more. We're all going to die, yes.

- I think I'm out of here very soon, like almost everyone else. I've spent waaay too much time here, especially in the last few weeks, since I got sucked into the "election" madness. (That's my responsibility, yes.) It's obvious that this place is heading for some new manifestation entirely, if it survives at all. After nine years, though, I would just like some straight answers to some simple questions before I leave. About Dr Volin, for instance, and about the possibility of archiving the RI board. So I'd appreciate not being banned outright. I no longer know what counts as an offence that merits suspension or banning (does anyone?) unless it's "annoying WR on one of his off-days." That's not a healthy environment. Not for him and not for any of us.

Enough. Peace out.

[82_28]

^ A little harsh, but then - you're not getting your own way.

Ach, that's nonsense, c_d. Exactly the same things are bugging me as are bugging everyone else here, including you:

I feel the same when consciously having to force myself not to engage with the Sysprop that AD posts here, unfailingly, every single day, over and over and over again.

Thanks. AD is getting his own way, as he has done ever since WR went solo. That's not "light moderation". That's wilful and sustained neglect of the board's welfare. That's WR's active choice, and his responsibility. Who benefits?

He does it because he gives a shit. That's the only reason I do it. We didn't come "here" out of the blue. Hey let's find some conspiracy site or coincidence site that we can troll. No it was totally unique in the early 2000s I believe Jeff keeps this shit running because he is too kind to pull the plug. He knows anyone who "knows" him loves him. But there have been so many voices over the years that have gone off to form their own sites. His has stayed put. Anyway, I enjoy everyone here and don't give a fuck what someone has to say. I am little past getting offended about shit. I just wanna keep this joint alive.

I do not know what the fuck that even means other than what it does.

[coffin_dodger]

82:

Anyway, I enjoy everyone here and don't give a fuck what someone has to say.

But that's not quite the whole story, is it?
You certainly care about criticism of AD, from whichever quarter it comes.
You're a good bloke, 82 - but not as impartial as you believe.
And that is how the game is played.

[coffin_dodger]

Mac:

It's obvious that this place is heading for some new manifestation entirely, if it survives at all.

Jeff Wells has forsaken this place - he simply cannot bring himself to post here, or to continue his blog. The ethos that drew us here in the first place has changed little (well, apart from the exponential increase in saturation bombing of a singular topic) - perhaps the leavers have changed more?
It's impossible to gauge how many 'inactive' members or non-members still read the content posted here. The visitor stats have always been shrouded, though a quick search yields c800 unique visitors per day.
There is no response to questions asked of admin for years now. It's a highly personal forum in which it's active members invest their time and minds - yet it could disappear in the next 5 mins with no recourse. The repeated request by members for a backup of the site is ignored, but this may be due to technical inexperience.
The keywords that bring up RI on the search engines are interesting - http://rigorousintuition.ca.websiteoutlook.com/function.mysql-connect - in as much that the majority are visitors who already know of the pre-existence of RI and are using the search engine as a link finder to visit, rather than type in the address in it's entirety, or use a bookmark. Oddly, considering the amount of 'anti-fascism' content posted at RI, there is no-one searching this - or any term related to it - that end up at RI through a search engine.
And, does anyone beyond the regulars - a supposedly diminishing band (although active topics continues to hover around the 80-100 threads mark - partly, I assume, due to the aforementioned sat bombing) - care what happens? There's no way to engage readers and lurkers, or their opinions.
C'est la vie. Bored of this, now.

[MacCruiskeen]

Double Bind

A double bind is an emotionally distressing dilemma in communication in which an individual (or group) receives two or more conflicting messages, and one message negates the other. This creates a situation in which a successful response to one message results in a failed response to the other (and vice versa), so that the person will automatically be wrong regardless of response. The double bind occurs when the person cannot confront the inherent dilemma, and therefore can neither resolve it nor opt out of the situation.

Double bind theory was first described by Gregory Bateson and his colleagues in the 1950s.

Double binds are often utilized as a form of control without open coercion—the use of confusion makes them both difficult to respond to as well as to resist.

A double bind generally includes different levels of abstraction in the order of messages and these messages can either be stated explicitly or implicitly within the context of the situation, or they can be conveyed by tone of voice or body language. Further complications arise when frequent double binds are part of an ongoing relationship to which the person or group is committed

wr will quibble re 'opting out' (+ sarcasm)

[Sounder]

I went to a Billy Brag/Joe Henry show the other night, and noted that Billy's rhetoric was very ADesce in character. The show was excellent with Joe and Bills voices blending quite pleasantly in their renditions of old railroad songs. I love them both, and my wife is friends with Joe since high school.

Even so, I fear that Billy may have lost his reality license after hearing him make a strong protest against vetting refugees for age to determine fitness for inclusion in foster care programs. Does Billy not know that foster care is for children? Does he not believe that people will lie to get into this sure fire path to immigration?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sters.html


I understand that Billy was traumatized by his own non- voting when Mrs. Thatcher was elected, but is that really a good reason to stump for Hillary? I talked to Billy after the show and while he seems to be a fine and good person, he is about as well informed as the village idiot.

I bring this up because it has dawned on me that a conformity game is being played on us here at RI. I think that AD’S mind and thinking closely reflects that of the founder and that is why there will be a place for AD as long as RI exists.

[Wombaticus Rex]

4. For you to complain about the state of the place now is so disingenuous as to be beyond parody. You have played a very major part in running it into the ground, especially in the last couple of years. How could you not have? You have been the only person in charge of it.

Sure, I'll take that. Always have. Point of this thread was that y'all might perhaps bear some responsibility for your actions, too.

Since you yourself bumped this thread again recently, WR, I'll take the liberty of saying this: You have not paid enough attention to any of these things. You have not engaged sufficiently with honest criticisms or questions. You have never seemed much worried at the prospect of RI's death. On the contrary.

"Sufficiently" meaning, in this case, to your satisfaction.

Two final questions:

Is Jeff, or are you, losing money on this board?

Was it always intended (or at least expected), after PW's departure, that this place would just quietly wither and die? We should really be told, at long last.

Neither, as far as I am aware. I don't even know who the fuck pays for this. Think about that.

[semper occultus]

I don't even know who the fuck pays for this.

...George Soros...?

[dada]

It's a highly personal forum in which it's active members invest their time and minds - yet it could disappear in the next 5 mins with no recourse.

That's life, though, isn't it?

I mean it's like life. I pour out my heart, take the time, share what's in my mind, and it could disappear at any moment. It will disappear, that is certain.

I know I'm going to be gone someday. Really know it, deep down. It makes every moment matter more. Changes my focus. I feel lucky that I have a constant awareness of death while I'm still perfectly physically and mentally healthy (my heart is a different story). It affords me a rare opportunity, to use my time to disentangle myself from 'karma.' I glimpsed true freedom, and I'm going to get it. Why not. I'm not good for much else, I might as well go for it.

Maybe I'm not making any sense. Whatever. I see how much effort it takes to stop the wheel of karma. And I'm working overtime at it. So I can imagine how hard it is for everyone else. This gives me compassion. But it isn't some soft and cuddly compassion, it's a fire. I want to help, but I don't know what else to do but burn.

[Cordelia]

It's a highly personal forum in which it's active members invest their time and minds - yet it could disappear in the next 5 mins with no recourse.

That's life, though, isn't it?

I mean it's like life. I pour out my heart, take the time, share what's in my mind, and it could disappear at any moment. It will disappear, that is certain.

I know I'm going to be gone someday. Really know it, deep down. It makes every moment matter more. Changes my focus. I feel lucky that I have a constant awareness of death while I'm still perfectly physically and mentally healthy (my heart is a different story). It affords me a rare opportunity, to use my time to disentangle myself from 'karma.' I glimpsed true freedom, and I'm going to get it. Why not. I'm not good for much else, I might as well go for it.

Maybe I'm not making any sense. Whatever. I see how much effort it takes to stop the wheel of karma. And I'm working overtime at it. So I can imagine how hard it is for everyone else. This gives me compassion. But it isn't some soft and cuddly compassion, it's a fire. I want to help, but I don't know what else to do but burn.

Exactly


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNu5zdEIhr0

[Wombaticus Rex]

I bring this up because it has dawned on me that a conformity game is being played on us here at RI. I think that AD’S mind and thinking closely reflects that of the founder and that is why there will be a place for AD as long as RI exists.

Mac is correct that I enable American Dream by allowing him to post here; this is also true for any of you.

Many RI members speak up against AD's existence here, many RI members have also spoken up in favor of his contributions.

In the meantime, I do reckon we're all honing our own rhetoric -- As Iron Sharpens Iron, right?

Sometimes, I think the real conformity game is the people we met along the way.

[IanEye]

Anyone reading this is face to face with their own inevitable death.

Death will go in any family in this land.
Death will go in any family in this land.

Turn him loose, let him go.
Let him say he outdrew me fair and square.
I want him to feel what it's like to every moment face his death.

.