David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:42 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:38 pm wrote:He does, absolutely, and I know how maddening it is to have people relentlessly implying you're anti-semitic -- I've run my mouth about Rachel Corrie, like, a lot. I don't think the evidence is particularly strong for Icke being willfully racist towards Judaic folks, I think he's just got a broad mind in the worst possible sense: a head chock-full of other people's bullshit, much of it mutually contradictory.

The same semiotic span that allows him to speak extemporaneously for several hours at a stretch also renders him acutely, and publicly, unable to actually parse those signals for value and veracity. It's all in there. So while I think AD is strangely monomaniacal about it, I feel that way about most people here. And we're all still here.

So, since it's a known pattern, I think we can move on -- or at least discuss how to.

After all: infinite love is the only truth - everything else is an illusion.



yes and with brainy's time consuming research I have in the past been very capable of doing just that :)
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:02 pm

Mr WRex, Please don't confuse my comment as some disparagement of slad's character. I recognize she's been our most prolific topic poster and I respect her and value much of what she offers; Icke, not so much.

Why I mention Hugh's departure is because I can see Icke creeping into many future RI threads. I think he's beneath contempt and unworthy of being praised here. Or anywhere. Hell, Icke lovers can post all day long on his blog and should, imo.

I never come to RI to read about Icke, do you Mr. WRex?

It's disappointing to me to find supporters of him here. I thought RI was a bit more unique.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Project Willow » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:05 pm

Would it be helpful, and speaking just for myself here, to remember that the level of contention can escalate when someone has a personal stake in the issue? I have had rather strong reactions to the promotion of Icke, because he includes in his areas of focus the same (usually denied/discredited) human rights abuses that I was subjected to, but then that reality gets poisoned with the reptile and other woo pills. Emotionally, I can react to his visage the same way I might to an FMSF member. In short, I feel like his actions are personally harmful to me, so maintaining some sort of balance in a disagreement over him is much more difficult. You know, sometimes I just would rather yell Grrrrrrrrrrr! than attempt any sort of discourse.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:06 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:38 pm wrote:He does, absolutely, and I know how maddening it is to have people relentlessly implying you're anti-semitic -- I've run my mouth about Rachel Corrie, like, a lot. I don't think the evidence is particularly strong for Icke being willfully racist towards Judaic folks, I think he's just got a broad mind in the worst possible sense: a head chock-full of other people's bullshit, much of it mutually contradictory.

The same semiotic span that allows him to speak extemporaneously for several hours at a stretch also renders him acutely, and publicly, unable to actually parse those signals for value and veracity. It's all in there. Including bad, dumb racist bullshit. But hey, that's Icke. The world needed him: he happened.

So while I think AD is strangely monomaniacal about it, I feel that way about most people here. And we're all still here.

So, since it's a known pattern, I think we can move on -- or at least discuss how to.

After all: infinite love is the only truth - everything else is an illusion.


Actually anti-Semitism is way on the back burner for me as to why I think David Icke is bad news. Read over this thread carefully- and the Reptile thread, and the peoples' voice thread- and you will see.

I would say that it is slad who is rather monomaniacal about Holocausts- "You didn't mention this one- you didn't mention that one" as somehow representing a coherent defense of the Ickean world view.

Also I should mention that I am on very friendly terms with the Corrie Family and am very much connected to the organizing going on now for justice in Palestine, so I am very aware of how spurious charges of "anti-Semitism" are used to attack positive efforts.

But I still think David Icke and his pals- basically any person who traffics in Nazi Holocaust revisionism or denial or might claim that the Protocols are essentially true- brings nothing but the kiss of death to real organizing for Palestinian Liberation.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:15 pm

Iamwhomiam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:02 pm wrote:Why I mention Hugh's departure is because I can see Icke creeping into many future RI threads. I think he's beneath contempt and unworthy of being praised here. Or anywhere. Hell, Icke lovers can post all day long on his blog and should, imo.

I never come to RI to read about Icke, do you Mr. WRex?


I most certainly the fuck do not, and I appreciate the explanation & expansion. I better understand where you were coming from now. Amen.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:17 pm

Canadian_watcher » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:10 pm wrote:AD, I'll speak directly to this.

Some people would call David Icke controversial. I would call him a brilliant psychotic.

His ability to speak for hours on an incomprehensible doctrine is stunning. But listen carefully and the methods of his madness become apparent.

He has a brilliant talent for the subtle interweaving of plausible with crazy, and packaging the in-between gray areas as thought-terminating clichés like “secret societies”, “brotherhood”, “free masons” and other slogans and catchphrases popular with modern conspiracy thinking.

The magic is in his ability to dispense seemingly innocuous tidbits of (allegedly true) earth history one moment, then slipping in talk of aliens crossbreeding with humans the next moment. Talk sane, touch on some crazy, go back to the safety of sane. Rinse and repeat until the listener can swallow the crazy with the sane.

This ability to subtlely slide in and out of the realm of plausible is the same potent cocktail used by science fiction writers to blur the lines between the possible and the impossible to keep viewers coming back for more.


first off, he doesn't strike me as psychotic, but who knows, really. It's one of those things where someone is either WAY ahead of his/her time or yes, they have let themselves believe in something that is completely without any foundation in reality.

I have listened to many hours of Icke speaking (in a row, such as rebroadcasts of his epic speeches at Wembley, etc and to me, he is anything but incomprehensible.

The contention that he has an ability to go back and forth between "logic" and "crazy" is true, if you buy that any of it is crazy in the first place. But for the sake of this discussion, I'm going to take it that his ideas regarding our experiences in this life being mere interpretations of information, that that information may be being manipulated and therefore also are our experiences manipulated, and that off world entities are behind much of the mayhem currently afoot in our collective world experience, are crazy. Does that about cover it? (shapeshifting, etc is part of the interpreting of the manipulated information as I understand it.) And yes, in case you're wondering, it feels pretty crazy to even write that out, to be honest.

So, if you feel that that information can't possibly be true and you also feel that it is dangerous then I can see the point you're making. He is a great speaker and anyone with that sort of charisma can be dangerous if they are trying to extract something from the people they are persuading: like money, sex, votes.

I guess that it's just up to each individual to decide for him or herself what they are willing to believe - what they *can* believe. it's been that way forever, hasn't it? We certainly see it in every election season, listen to it thousands of times on advertisements, read it in newspapers, etc etc.


Thanks for responding to the content of this. Are you the only one who might kinda like David Icke who has done so?

For the record, I personally do not know Icke to be insane. I have no idea what makes him tick, really. I do sometimes wonder if he is a conscious disinformation agent but I have no compelling evidence regarding his motivation whatsoever.

The quote though is important because it shows how his argument can be coherent and evidence-based one minute and then very much not the next. That is classic "poison pill" material.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:22 pm

American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:06 pm wrote:But I still think David Icke and his pals- basically any person who traffics in Nazi Holocaust revisionism or denial or might claim that the Protocols are essentially true- brings nothing but the kiss of death to real organizing for Palestinian Liberation.[/size]


Agreed, strongly. This is a big part of why I don't and can't care about "intentions" or "beliefs" - behavior and track record says it all. Icke does not admit to his mistakes or his plagiarism. He cannot be taken seriously.

The only redeeming features of Icke are 1) his heart and soul, which I really do not doubt are good and honest and hella confused, and 2) the top 20% of original writers / thinkers / researchers he lifts his material from. He's the guy you can't have around when it's time to do serious work, though: he's the liability. Where his heart is at doesn't matter. He's a problem. Every day.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby slimmouse » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:44 pm

American Dream » 17 Jun 2013 22:03 wrote:
American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:41 pm wrote:
OK AD, engage me. I want to engage.


Here's the excerpt from the original post which has already been posted twice- now three times:

Some people would call David Icke controversial. I would call him a brilliant psychotic.

His ability to speak for hours on an incomprehensible doctrine is stunning. But listen carefully and the methods of his madness become apparent.

He has a brilliant talent for the subtle interweaving of plausible with crazy, and packaging the in-between gray areas as thought-terminating clichés like “secret societies”, “brotherhood”, “free masons” and other slogans and catchphrases popular with modern conspiracy thinking.

The magic is in his ability to dispense seemingly innocuous tidbits of (allegedly true) earth history one moment, then slipping in talk of aliens crossbreeding with humans the next moment. Talk sane, touch on some crazy, go back to the safety of sane. Rinse and repeat until the listener can swallow the crazy with the sane.

This ability to subtlely slide in and out of the realm of plausible is the same potent cocktail used by science fiction writers to blur the lines between the possible and the impossible to keep viewers coming back for more.



Indeed it is an excerpt AD. But surely if this subject is about David Icke and what he's said and you want to have a rational discussion about that, then their are fairer ways to do that, than quoting third party opinions from James Randi affiliates ? As someone who's had more than his fair share of exposure by Icke, for the FMSF liar and Charlattan that he is, is that really a good idea?

Any damage done to victims of abuse by that particular nest of vipers?

Did you not know about that ? If you did, do you smell the hypocrisy?

How about dispelling such poisonous opinions, since youre frequently reminding us of the dangers of poisoned wells. How about looking at what he's said, in full context and taking it from there. You havent quoted a single thing that Icke has said yet.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:45 pm

Sorry I didn't take the time earlier to more clearly make my point, wombat.

What bothers me about reading Icke's crap here is that those posting it know full well how many of us feel about him, or rather, how we feel about his opinions. They are well aware of the kind of reception such comments received in the past.

So why start a shitstorm so needlessly? Who does that benefit?

Seriously, folks should post on a site their support of Icke will be appreciated.

I'm just waiting to see what posting the Pro to cols bring our way...
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:54 pm

slimmouse » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:44 pm wrote:
American Dream » 17 Jun 2013 22:03 wrote:
American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:41 pm wrote:
OK AD, engage me. I want to engage.


Here's the excerpt from the original post which has already been posted twice- now three times:

Some people would call David Icke controversial. I would call him a brilliant psychotic.

His ability to speak for hours on an incomprehensible doctrine is stunning. But listen carefully and the methods of his madness become apparent.

He has a brilliant talent for the subtle interweaving of plausible with crazy, and packaging the in-between gray areas as thought-terminating clichés like “secret societies”, “brotherhood”, “free masons” and other slogans and catchphrases popular with modern conspiracy thinking.

The magic is in his ability to dispense seemingly innocuous tidbits of (allegedly true) earth history one moment, then slipping in talk of aliens crossbreeding with humans the next moment. Talk sane, touch on some crazy, go back to the safety of sane. Rinse and repeat until the listener can swallow the crazy with the sane.

This ability to subtlely slide in and out of the realm of plausible is the same potent cocktail used by science fiction writers to blur the lines between the possible and the impossible to keep viewers coming back for more.



Indeed it is an excerpt AD. But surely if this subject is about David Icke and what he's said and you want to have a rational discussion about that, then their are fairer ways to do that, than quoting third party opinions from James Randi affiliates ? As someone who's had more than his fair share of exposure by Icke, for the FMSF liar and Charlattan that he is, is that really a good idea?

Any damage done to victims of abuse by that particular nest of vipers?

Did you not know about that ? If you did, do you smell the hypocrisy?

How about dispelling such poisonous opinions, since youre frequently reminding us of the dangers of poisoned wells. How about looking at what he's said, in full context and taking it from there. You havent quoted a single thing that Icke has said yet.


Sorry slim, if you do actually want to discuss the content of the original post now- and not just endlessly distract away from it through ad hominems, guilt by association, changing the subject, etc., then it's got to include the original post and all the context, critique and analysis that implies.

Simply decontextualizing the Icke quotes just won't do, if you really do intend to change your tune...
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:56 pm

You havent quoted a single thing that Icke has said yet.


I guess he can't
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:10 pm

American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:38 pm wrote:
brainpanhandler » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:17 pm wrote:
MY ONLY concern is all these persistent rumors of anti Jewish people talk. I want to see direct quotes where Icke says Protocols of Zion/anti Jewish type stuff.


I assume you looked yourself and couldn't find evidence that satisfied you. As I understand it the argument relies on translating reptilians to mean Rothschilds/jews. Connections and parallels can be drawn. It's too convoluted an argument for me to accept at face value, although it's not totally implausible either. It's a dicey thing to label someone antisemitic. I think there should be a high bar of proof for that.


Icke's position regarding the Protocols is pathetic. Show me the great logicians wisdom:


http://www.icke-exposed.co.uk/conspirac ... s-of-zion/

The Protocols of Zion

David Icke believes that the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is an accurate transcription of the minutes of a meeting that took place between a clique of elite, Jewish power brokers hellbent on controlling the whole world over a hundred years ago. David Icke actually refers to The Protocols as The Protocols of The Illuminati, but he’s referring to the same book.

The infamous Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a fictional piece of anti-semitic propoganda. The Protocols were first published in Russia in 1903 in a newspaper called Znamya. The Protocols are an early example of early conspiracy theory literature detailing how an elite of Jewish leaders were secretly plotting to take over the world.

The Protocols were written by two Russian Journalists: Matvei Golovinski and Manasevich-Manuilov at the behest of Pyotr Rachkovsky, Chief of Russian secret police in Paris. They were written in collaboration with Charles Joly who was the son of Maurice Joly who wrote a book called The Dialogues In Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesqueiu. This book was written as a protest at the regime of Napoleon III who subsequently had Joly imprisoned when the book was published.

Although The Dialogues in Hell make no mention of Jews or a Jewish plot, the basic structure of The Dialogues and The Protocols is almost identical. This is NOT a coincidence. The Dialogues were published BEFORE The Protocols in 1864 pre-dating The Protocols by nearly forty years.

The Protocols of Zion are extremely controversial because they were used as propoganda for justifying not only the Russian Pogroms, but also The Holocaust in which some six million Jewish people were systematically exterminated by the Nazis.

David Icke has insisted The Protocols are not fictional. He’s not the only one… Hitler believed them to be true as did Henry Ford who provided Adolf Hitler with much financial and manufacturing support. Many other far right and anti-semitic group have also claimed that The Protocols of Zion are genuine and today over one hundred years later, this poisonous propoganda is still finding an audience and influencing people’s thinking.


The bar has to be higher than that. There's not a single citation in that little piece. Not a single quote or reference.

This is the best evidence I've seen in this thread so far:

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:48 pm wrote:This is on Icke's site: http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/3705 ... e-control- And it links to Makow.

Here is more of Icke's thoughts on the Protocols: http://www.davidicke.com/articles/illum ... rs-of-zion


Although the "read more" link at at the end of the blurb for the second link Wrex provides leads nowhere.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:12 pm

The bar has to be higher than that. There's not a single citation in that little piece. Not a single quote or reference.


thank you
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They could still get him out of office.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:24 pm

brainpanhandler wrote,
Although the "read more" link at at the end of the blurb for the second link Wrex provides leads nowhere.

Right. And trying to download the .pdf won't work, either will printing the document, which will only show the page with what little is there.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:32 pm

Simple enough to start doing a Google search and start checking out Icke's track record. I'm busy right now but have enough time to lift from the David Icke Wikipedia page- which includes citations:

In The Robots' Rebellion (1994), Icke introduced the idea that the Global Elite's plan for world domination was laid out in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a hoax published in Russia in 1903, which supposedly presented a plan by the Jewish people to take over the world.[54] According to Mark Honigsbaum, Icke refers to it 25 times in the Robot's Rebellion, calling it the "Illuminati protocols."[55]


In his 2001 documentary about Icke, Jon Ronson cited this cartoon, "Rothschild" (1898), by Charles Léandre, arguing that Jews have long been depicted as lizard-like creatures out to control the world.[56]

The Protocols portrays the Jewish people as "cackling villains from a Saturday matinee," as Jon Ronson put it in his documentary about Icke, David Icke, the Lizards and the Jews (2001).[54] It was published in English in 1920 by The Dearborn Independent, Henry Ford's newspaper, becoming mixed up with conspiracy theories about anti-Christian Illuminati, international financiers, and the Rothschilds, a Jewish banking dynasty. After it was exposed that year as a hoax by The Times of London, Michael Barkun writes that it disappeared from mainstream discourse until interest in it was renewed by the American far right in the 1950s.[54] Barkun argues that Icke's reference to it is the first of a number of instances of his moving dangerously close to antisemitism.[57]

Icke's use of the Protocols was greeted with dismay by the Green Party's executive. They had allowed him to address the party's annual conference in 1992, despite the controversy over his Wogan interview, but in September 1994 decided to deny him a platform.[58] Icke wrote to the Guardian denying that The Robots' Rebellion was antisemitic, and rejecting racism, sexism and prejudice of any kind, but in the same letter insisted that whoever wrote the Protocols "knew the game plan" for the 20th century.[59] Barkun argues that Icke was trying to have it both ways, offended by the allegation of antisemitism while "hinting at the dark activities of Jewish elites."[60]



54^ a b c Barkun 2003, pp. 49–50.
Ronson (Guardian) 2001.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was written around 1897, probably under the direction of the Russian secret police in Paris, and purports to be transcripts of 24 addresses given to a group of Jewish elders. See United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, and the museum's timeline.
It was exposed as a hoax in 1920 by The Times of London, which wrote that it was a work of plagiarism derived from two sources: The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864) by a French satirist, Maurice Joly, which had nothing to do with Jews; and Biarritz (1868), an antisemitic novel by a German writer, Hermann Goedsche. See Barkun 2003, pp. 48–50.
For more background, see Kay (National Post) 2011.

55^ a b Honigsbaum (Evening Standard) 1995.

56^ Ronson (Channel 4) 2001, 06:12 mins.

57^ Barkun 2003, p. 104.
For more on this, see Simms 2002, p. 33ff.

58^ Independent 1994.
Chaudhary (Guardian) 1994.
Goodwin (Independent) 1994.

59^ Icke (Guardian) 1994.

60^ Barkun 2003, p. 144.
Icke writes: "I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War. This Jewish/non-Jewish Elite used the First World War to secure the Balfour Declaration and the principle of the Jewish State of Israel in Palestine (for which, given the genetic history of most Jewish people, there is absolutely no justification on historical grounds or any other). They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament. See And the Truth Shall Set You Free, pp. 120–121, cited in Offley 2000a.
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