Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:10 am

On Ukraine, It’s Hard to Tell Fox News and 4Chan Apart
Right-wing media spaces are pushing the same narratives about Trump’s alleged abuse of power.

Last week, as President Donald Trump was battered by headlines detailing a whistleblower allegation that he sought Ukrainian interference in the 2020 election, right-wing media outlets rallied to support him by pumping out stories downplaying the revelations.

“Democrats Wrote to Ukraine in May 2018, Demanding It Investigate Trump,” read the headline of the main story on Breitbart’s homepage on Wednesday. “Intel watchdog found whistleblower had ‘political bias’ favoring Trump rival: official,” read another on Fox News‘ site.

Extremely similar stories made their way onto fringe right-wing sites like 4chan and Reddit communities like The_Donald.

The fringe internet and comparatively mainstream right-wing media have melded in the wake of the Ukraine allegations.
“Democrats Asked Ukraine To Investigate Trump—Last Fucking Year,” read the title of one of several similar 4chan threads on the topic, linking to Breitbart’s article or a Federalist one on the same subject. In The_Donald, a raucous and sometimes bigoted home for Trump supporters on Reddit, posts arguing the whistleblower was motivated by political bias against the president accrued thousands of likes.

All of these things might make sense to bring up, if true. But what the headlines and posts elided was that Michael Atkinson, the intelligence community inspector general who reviewed the whistleblower’s complaint, found that “arguable political bias” did not seem to undermine his allegations’ credibility. And that widely cited May letter from Senate Democrats didn’t actually include any call for Trump to be investigated.

The stories and posts show how the fringe internet and comparatively mainstream right-wing media—which have long influenced each other—have, in the wake of the Ukraine allegations, melded into a blob of garbled reactionary media that inhales mainstream news stories and spits out transfigured versions palatable to conservative audiences. Journalists who have long kept a steadfast eye on this media ecosystem have noted how these spaces, and the messages they present, are rapidly converging.

“If The Gateway Pundit and InfoWars formed a cable news channel, it’d look something like the 2019 version of Fox prime time programming,” CNN media reporter Oliver Darcy tweeted last week. “I’ve been tracking the right for the last 4-ish years of my life and I assure you this is not hyperbole,” Jared Holt, a Right Wing Watch reporter, affirmed in response. “The fringe has been ushered into the heart of power.”

In the past, hoaxes and reality-bending news stories in the mainstream conservative media usually worked their way up from sketchy blogs and troll-laden laden forums. During the 2016 election, two researchers at the non-profit Data & Society, Alice Marwick and Becca Lewis, documented how bad faith questions and hoaxes about Hillary Clinton’s health, circulating in right-wing mainstream media like Fox News, originated on 4chan.

“The claims started on 4chan, then [YouTuber and Infowars employee] Paul Joseph Watson started covering it, and then Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity were asking about it on their primetime Fox News shows,” Lewis recalled, noting how the false claims took hold and were used to question Clinton’s fitness for office.

Lewis, now a communications PhD candidate at Stanford, notes that while the trolls who make up 4chan and the like have often ridiculed more mainstream right-wing news, they also see the value they bring when the outlets spread their messages. “There has always been a sense that those sites are crucial for broadening the movement. That’s where far-right members want to recruit from,” she says.

Ahead of the fall of 2018 midterm elections, mainstream right-wing outlets and pundits, including Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, began pushing hoaxes and conspiracies not only about George Soros’ purported funding of a “migrant caravan” traveling toward the U.S.’s southern border, but also that a series of bomb threats on major liberal figures had been “false flags” orchestrated by Democrats in an attempt to win voters’ sympathy. The migrant caravan and bomb threats were real, but right-wing media outlets and pundits ascribed false origins to them, hoaxes that came directly from misinformation that had been circulating for months on Twitter’s fringe.

Lots of misinformation still travels this well-worn pathway. In July, a smear about Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) marrying her brother made its way from message boards and social media into mainstream right-wing media and onto Trump’s Twitter feed. The unsubstantiated claim had been ebbing and flowing on the internet after an anonymous user posted about it on an obscure forum in 2016, before right-wing blogs picked it up and, in some readers’ eyes, brought a patina of legitimacy to the story with either paper-thin or nonexistent reporting.

Ben Collins, an NBC tech and internet reporter, has diagramed the phenomenon, dubbing it the “Human Centipede of Intentionally Bad Information.”


Ben Collins

@oneunderscore__
· Nov 27, 2018
Replying to @oneunderscore__
This article shows exactly how the disinfo pipeline worked in 2016.

Russian hack --> Wikileaks --> InfoWars --> Drudge --> Hannity --> Trump surrogate on mainstream sources (this time it was Jeffrey Lord on CNN)

The useful idiot line blurs at each step.https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-hillar ... alex-jones

‘Is Hillary Dying’ Hoax Started by Pal of Alex Jones
No, Hillary does not have Parkinson’s…or syphilis…or autism. Not unless you believe this wingnut who cites Martin Shkreli as his only medical source.
thedailybeast.com

Ben Collins

@oneunderscore__
This chart's from a speech I gave at Pitzer College last year. This story is a perfect example of the Human Centipede of Bad Info in the 2016 Election.

Malicious actor plants dirt anonymously. It clears the lowest bar for standards at each outlet. Then the cycle feeds itself.
View image on Twitter

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8:19 PM - Nov 27, 2018
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While Collins’s chart was designed to illustrate how false claims can gain credence moving up the right-wing media food chain, the flow and direction of bad information have gotten more muddled since he made it in 2018. Several incidents since news of the Ukraine whistleblower allegation broke illustrate that there can be little to no latency between what’s on forums and message boards and what’s on right-wing news websites and on Fox News, as hoax peddling sites and “normie” right-wing media move in near lockstep, sharing the same set of bad information about the story.

The_Donald and 4chan users are reviving months old conspiracies and dubiously reported stories from mainstream sources like Fox News and The Hill’s recently departed right-wing opinion writer, John Solomon, illustrating how the boards are using such storylines to help bend the narrative about Ukrainian corruption in misleading directions that are more favorable to Trump.

There is nuance to this, and not everyone is on the same page: Fox News isn’t a total ideological monolith, with hosts disagreeing and some reporting more responsibly than others. The Drudge Report seems to have its own agenda that doesn’t necessarily fall exactly in line with top Republicans. But overall, the extended-right wing media universe trends more towards homogeneity than away from it.

According to Whitney Phillips, a Syracuse University communications professor who specializes in online misinformation and extremism, the Ukraine story’s prominence has meant misleading stories geared toward a right-wing audience are reaching an unusually large and influential audience.

“Those stories are unavoidable in a way that they weren’t in 2017 when the Seth Rich stuff was bubbling up on Fox News,” she says. “If you’re not really plugged into specific circles you probably wouldn’t really see it, or see the QAnon stuff, or the Pizzagate stuff. These Ukraine stories are all central now.”

In a way, the Trump administration gave a green light to the dissemination of false information when, within a month of its inauguration, it gave White House press credentials to The Gateway Pundit, which has served as a key intermediary between conspiracy-mongering right-wing troll forums and more mainstream conservative media.

“The relationship between these places has been happening for years,” says Phillips, adding that a merger of the fringe right-wing internet and its mainstream equivalents has been a long time coming. Phillips says Trump’s frequent retweets of QAnon supporters and his airing of conspiracy theories—including one he shared with Ukraine’s president, alleging wrongdoing by a cybersecurity firm hired by the Democratic National Committee to investigate Russia’s 2016 hack of its computer systems—show he’s been complicit in building a distorted information landscape.

“This is the logical conclusion of where Trump has been heading the whole time,” she says.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... han-apart/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby Sounder » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:25 am

From SLAD's post

Michael MacKay

Protests are growing in Kyiv against Zelenskyy's surrender to Russia.

If Zelenskyy goes ahead and betrays 5 1/2 years of the heroic armed defence of Ukrainian nationhood there will be a third Maidan and he will be overthrown.

#RussiaInvadedUkraine


Well, I'm sure there will be big backers for a third expression of misguided self-righteousness. Why do so many support war?

"heroic armed defence of Ukrainian nationhood", please, I just ate.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:32 am

speaking of misguided self-righteousness ....trump...oh you want military aid Zelensky you give me dirt on Biden

EXTORTION


Trump's delay of Ukrainian aid put ally at risk in fight against Russia
- Los Angeles Times
President Trump’s decision to press Ukraine’s new leader, Volodymyr Zelensky, for a “favor” while withholding much-needed military aid to the country has weakened a key U.S. ally in the fight against Russian aggression.

With clashes against Russia-backed separatists ramping up in some pockets of eastern Ukraine, Zelensky, a comic-turned-reformer, now finds himself preoccupied with ensuring he has U.S. support while also staying out of a spiraling American political fight.

“Putin must be rubbing his hands with joy,” said political analyst Volodymyr Fesenko, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who seized Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula in 2014. “It is one more proof for Putin that Zelensky is very inexperienced and weak as a politician. Putin can toy with him like a cat with a mouse.”

The White House account of a July 25 telephone call between Trump and Zelensky shows the Ukrainian leader fawning over the U.S. president, agreeing that European leaders have not done enough to help Ukraine and promising to do what he can in response to Trump’s request that Ukraine investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter over conspiracy theories of corruption that Ukrainian prosecutors had already dismissed as unsubstantiated.

Just months after taking office, Zelensky is scrambling to recover — mending ties with Germany and France, seeking bipartisan support in Washington and keeping his formidable political enemies at bay, including Putin and Petro Poroshenko, the man Zelensky defeated in April by running on an anti-corruption platform.

“Zelensky is walking a tightrope,” said Peter Zalmayev, executive director of the Eurasia Democracy Initiative. “He was a neophyte trying to ingratiate himself, but was being goaded by the manipulator in chief.... If this is what happens to him with Trump, imagine what happens with a KGB-trained” spy.

Zelensky’s success and Ukraine’s stability are critical to U.S. interests.

Before Trump put a hold on nearly $400 million in aid — including artillery, sniper rifles and Javelin antitank weapons critical to confronting Russian advances — the president often boasted that he was doing more to support Ukraine than President Obama. The Trump administration released the aid this month, after an intelligence community whistleblower complained that the president’s request for a political favor was an abuse of power.

Trump has acknowledged both asking Zelensky to investigate the Bidens and temporarily withholding the aid, but he insists the two were unrelated. He has said the delay was caused by his concerns about corruption in Ukraine and the failure of European nations to contribute more.

Ben Hodges, a retired three-star general who previously commanded U.S. Army forces in Europe, said the military assistance is essential to ensuring Ukraine does not feel abandoned by the West. “Ukrainian soldiers are getting killed every week,” he said. “It’s about the sovereignty of a European country, and Russia’s use of force to violate that sovereignty.”

Hodges said Russia, which wants to prevent Ukraine from slipping further to the West, would waste no time taking advantage of a breakdown in the U.S.-Ukraine relationship. “The Russians will exploit that immediately.”

Critics accuse Trump of playing politics with foreign policy by misjudging his ability to pressure the newly elected Ukrainian leader and bypassing traditional agencies such as the State Department and the National Security Council in favor of his personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani.

When amateurs like Giuliani are involved, dangers lurk, analysts and current and former U.S. and Ukrainian officials say. Part of Trump’s miscalculation, analysts said, was the image he had of Ukraine as a country that would be easy to manipulate, based on Giuliani’s imprecise accounts and ignoring the pertinent institutional knowledge held by the more traditional diplomatic agencies.

“The main damage is the way the president and Giuliani act out of complete ignorance of Ukraine,” said Adrian Karatnycky, a Ukraine-based senior fellow with the Washington think tank Atlantic Council. “This is a result of Trump’s disregard for knowledge and expertise, and then holding a vulnerable country hostage to your ignorance.”

Giuliani, who acknowledged having several meetings with senior Ukrainian officials and prosecutors but denied any wrongdoing, has said he was not freelancing because he was working at the State Department’s behest. But the department’s role has not been explained fully.

“There are two foreign policies at play,” said Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, referring to a traditional one led by the State Department and one apparently dedicated to Trump’s reelection. “For Ukraine the real danger is that ... if they become a political football in the U.S. election, it threatens to undo [more than two decades] of strong bipartisan support.” The military aid, he said, was especially important as a signal to Russia.

Ukrainians recall that Giuliani’s first visit to Kyiv as Trump’s representative came in 2017, not long after the inauguration. Giuliani delivered a letter from Trump to then-President Poroshenko. The contents of the letter have not been made public.

Sergei Leshchenko, a former lawmaker who was part of Zelensky’s campaign, joined former prosecutor Yuri Lutsenko in telling The Times this week that the allegations raised by Giuliani in attempting to push a Biden corruption investigation were bogus. Hunter Biden served on the board of a Ukrainian energy company.

Leshchenko said that while Hunter Biden’s presence on the board of the Burisma gas company might have been seen as a possible conflict of interest, there was nothing to suggest that either Biden was part of any scheme.

He said Giuliani fell victim to “rascals” selling a conspiracy story he wanted to hear. “Trump, with the help of Giuliani, has seriously undermined the U.S. reputation as the principal guardian and promoter of supremacy of law and other civilized world values,” Leshchenko said.

Moreover, the Ukrainian prosecutor who was Lutsenko’s predecessor — whose resignation was demanded by Biden, along with the European Union, International Monetary Fund and others — was not investigating Burisma at the time. In fact, that was the problem: The prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, was seen as lackadaisical on corruption cases.

“Everybody demanded his resignation at the time,” Leshchenko said. “Shokin was backsliding on corruption and suspected of being corrupt himself.”

Shokin was traveling outside Ukraine this week and unavailable for comment.

Then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch also got caught up in false claims about corruption. She was pushing Poroshenko to do more, but eventually was criticized by Giuliani, and Trump recalled her in May. Among other things, she was insisting an anti-corruption court be set up under international monitoring; Poroshenko drafted a law that would have given himself authority over the court and all prosecutions.

So far, Zelensky has sought to distance himself from the controversy engulfing the United States. He has kept a low profile, speaking briefly to reporters Monday. He insisted Ukraine was an independent country and would not conduct any investigations “on command.”

Meanwhile, the fighting against Russia-backed separatists has continued, with a significant uptick in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine in recent days, according to Ukrainian media.

“This is bad news for our national interests,” said John Herbst, who served as U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2003 to 2006 and now heads the Eurasia Center in Washington. “It is in our interest to help Ukraine make things difficult for Putin in Donbas. All we need to do is help them, send arms, maintain and ramp up sanctions. We don’t have to actually fight. Instead, unfortunately, it seems President Trump was playing low-order politics.”
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/ ... ly-at-risk


Former Ukraine president: I never met with Biden about son
CNN's Matthew Chance reports that former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who held the office from June 2014 until May 2019, categorically denied that then-Vice President Joe Biden asked him to fire a prosecutor looking into Biden's son's connections with an energy company.Source: CNN
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/1 ... ce-vpx.cnn


Was There Another Cover-Up In Response to the Whistle-Blower?
By Neal K. Katyal and Joshua A. GeltzerOct. 1, 2019
One of the first things new prosecutors at the Justice Department learn is that cover-ups are rarely singular. There is often a cover-up of the cover-up.

Allegations of one cover-up, then another, emerged last week. Officials in the Trump administration tried to “lock down” the phone call memo between President Trump and Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine (the first cover-up), and then officials in the executive branch made efforts to keep this information from reaching Congress (the second cover-up).

Now we have discovered what may be a third cover-up. In its handling of the investigation and a potential campaign-finance violation, the Department of Justice appears to have ignored a rule that a matter under investigation must be referred to the Federal Election Commission. Critically, if the department had followed the rule, the Ukraine affair would have been disclosed to the American public.

Were it not for the efforts of the whistle-blower, everything about this would have been hidden from the F.E.C. and the American people.

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Here’s how the Justice Department failed to follow the rule. As part of the scramble in the executive branch caused by the whistle-blower’s complaint, the Justice Department secretly investigated Mr. Trump for a potential campaign-finance violation. The department reportedly cleared him because the contributions solicited from a foreign government to his campaign were not quantifiable “things of value.” That’s the key phrase in one of the most important campaign-finance laws.

Remember that Mr. Trump’s own intelligence community inspector general — a former federal prosecutor — determined that the whistle-blower complaint was an “urgent concern.” Further, the complaint set out facts suggesting that Mr. Trump had indeed violated the federal statute that criminalizes soliciting any “thing of value” from a foreign citizen in connection with an election. A thorough investigation seemed warranted.

After it looked into the complaint, the Justice Department disagreed — it said that because the amount of the contribution couldn’t be quantified, the department would not even bother opening a criminal investigation (which would still have been short of bringing an actual prosecution).

To date, the criticism of the Justice Department has focused on its seemingly hasty judgment that a federal crime had not been committed and on Attorney General William Barr’s decision not to recuse himself from a matter directly implicating him.

Those are indeed valid criticisms, but an overlooked problem is that a federal government memorandum required the Justice Department to refer this complaint to the Federal Election Commission. And by all publicly available information, the department failed to do so.

For over 40 years, a memorandum of understanding has stood between the Justice Department and the Federal Election Commission, and it has been duly entered into The Federal Register. It’s a guide for how Justice and the F.E.C. should interact in administering federal election law. The document recognizes that some election law violations, for whatever reason, “may not be proper subjects for prosecution as crimes” under key criminal provisions of the federal election law statutes. The document then explains how the two agencies should interact when one or the other learns of potential violations.

Here’s the key part for our purpose: When information comes to the attention of the Justice Department indicating a “probable violation” of the Federal Election Campaign Act, the document says, “the department will apprise the commission of such information at the earliest opportunity.”

Note the standard for when the Justice Department must notify the F.E.C.: when there’s a “probable violation,” a low bar compared with the standard for actually bringing a criminal prosecution that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

So again, as far as anyone knows, the Justice Department never provided that notification. And there’s more. The memo further explains that when the Justice Department determines that a probable violation “does not amount to a significant and substantial knowing and willful violation” — presumably what happened when the department decided not to continue investigating the matter described in the whistle-blower complaint — then “the department will refer the matter to the commission as promptly as possible.”

This, too, the Justice Department appears not to have done.

Why does it matter? Because the F.E.C. has a host of tools available to it to enforce federal election law that are distinct from the prosecutorial tool that the Justice Department declined to exercise here. The memo makes this, too, very clear.

It says that the Justice Department’s referral of such matters to the F.E.C. will facilitate the latter’s “consideration of the wide range of appropriate remedies available to the commission.” Those include, for example, the imposition of civil penalties for certain election-law violations — which would have been made public.

And establishing a civil violation doesn’t require that violation to have required a standard of knowing and willful. It also doesn’t require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, only the much lower standard of a preponderance of the evidence. What’s more, there’s no monetary threshold for a civil violation, meaning that the Justice Department’s apparent inability to quantify the “thing of value” the president was soliciting is irrelevant to the Justice Department’s duty to notify the commission and not a bar to that agency’s potential imposition of a civil penalty.

Underlying this F.E.C. enforcement mechanism is a deep desire for transparency: When candidates break the rules, they need to be held accountable. Reflecting that, a Justice Department publication from December 2017 notes that the F.E.C.’s enforcement jurisdiction over noncriminal violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act “cannot be compromised or waived by the Department of Justice.”

So what went wrong at the Justice Department? It’s possible that it simply didn’t do a civil analysis, which the memorandum requires it to do in order to determine whether there was a “probable violation” that must be referred to the F.E.C. Or it’s possible that the department did do a civil analysis and inexplicably decided that Mr. Trump’s phone conversation with the Ukrainian president didn’t rise to even a probable violation of election law under the much lower civil standards. It’s hard to know which would be more damning.

It’s worth emphasizing that this memorandum remains in full effect, though there have been discussions between the Justice Department and the F.E.C. about augmenting it with specific details on exactly how each agency should follow the memorandum’s guidance in situations like this one — discussions that seem well worth resuming when, in years to come, the Justice Department begins to care again about enforcing such laws.

One indication that the memo’s dictates remain required protocol? Just six years ago, it was cited in a public memorandum written by the F.E.C.’s vice chairman at the time.

His name? Mr. Trump’s own former White House counsel — Don McGahn.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/opin ... r-fec.html
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby Sounder » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:24 am

Yes, yes, 'much needed military aid' for the Azov brigade. Garbage, displacement bullshit.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:35 am

Of course the U.S. should immediately suspend military aid to Ukraine and facilitate negotiations including Russia to end the crisis and restore peaceful relations. Zelensky ran advocating talks with Putin and won in a landslide against the incumbent Poroshenko, who practically accused Zelensky of being a Russian agent. The U.S. establishment stance on this matter is wrong.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:39 am

from The Bell

Re: Footnotes from the Ukrainian "Crisis"; New High-Points in Cynicism Part IV
Quote
Post by blindpig » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:15 pm

The commander of the Armed Forces in the Donbass announced the complete withdrawal of troops
September 18, 2019 11:53

The commander of the Ukrainian troops in the Donbass, General Kravchenko, announced preparations for the withdrawal of troops along the entire demarcation line. He said this during a meeting with the UN system coordinator, humanitarian coordinator and permanent representative of the UN Development Program in Ukraine Osnat Lubrani. This was reported by the press center of the so-called "OOS" on Facebook.

Image

According to him, preparations are now underway for the withdrawal of troops along the entire demarcation line in the Donbass.

“Today, preparatory measures are being taken to withdraw troops along the entire demarcation line. Such a task was determined by the head of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine and the head of state. We are ready for this in order to improve the lives of our citizens and, in the end, everything will depend on mirror actions from the opposite side, ”he emphasized.

Earlier today it was reported that the President of Ukraine Zelensky intends to end the war in Donbass in six months .

In turn, the head of the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry, Priestayko, said that the Kremlin is showing the first signs of readiness to de-escalate the situation in the Donbass .

On the eve of Ukrainian television, Priestayko also announced that Zelensky’s team was taking six months to resolve the situation in Donbass .

At the same time, on September 15, Priestayko said that Kiev did not intend to grant amnesty to the participants in the Donbass war on the part of the DPR and LPR, and also did not intend to take into account the conditions of the Republics in the issue of holding elections in the DPR and LPR.

Earlier, the representative of Kiev at the talks in Minsk, the ex-president of Ukraine Kuchma, said that “Donbass will not receive any federations and changes to the Constitution” .

Such statements, the director of the Center for Political Conjuncture Alexei Chesnakov called "absolute stupidity . " According to him, the Ukrainian side by refusing to grant Donetsk and Lugansk wide autonomy demonstrates absolute stupidity and deceit, since the denial of the special status of Donbass denies the Steinmeier formula.

https://novorosinform.org/789094

Google Translator

***************************

Image

Tikhon Goncharov: If Ukraine returns, no “amnesties” will save the residents of Donbass from reprisals
September 18, 2019 8:04

The news of the murder of former DPR militia Roman Dzhumaev in the occupied Armed Forces of Mariupol shocked the republics of Donbass and other Russian regions. Unidentified shot at point blank range at the door of their own apartment. The mother of the killed militia, Lyudmila, today announced that the organizer of the execution of her son was an accomplice of the Armed Forces of Ukraine , Ukrainian Nazi Odnorog. Which, by the way, yesterday openly thanked the murderers of Roman .

The unicorn, which considered the murdered person to be its personal enemy, was previously distinguished by Russophobic statements. In the fall of 2016, she made a scandal over a poem about the Russian flag in a textbook on the Russian language in Mariupol schools. The "Volunteer" demanded the dismissal of all teachers involved in the "harassment" and sent a letter to the Minister of Education of Ukraine. In November of the same year, Odnorog accused the "separatists" of arson of the only "temple" of Ukrainian schismaticsin Mariupol. “So you freaks want to scare us?” So I’ll give you the answer: you’ll rather take a break, the dregs that are waiting for the “world to ruin”, than we’ll at least step back from our goals! ”She said. Obviously, we have a classic example of what a person can turn into under the influence of the ideas of Ukrainian Nazism.

Of course, after the brutal crimes of Ukrainian Nazis in the Donbass, as well as the killing of objectionable activists throughout Ukraine, the news of the reprisal against the former militia is not particularly surprising. But this incident once again demonstrated that the Nazi regime in Ukraine under Poroshenko did not go away, but simply changed the bloodied embroidery to a white shirt with a fashionable tie. Ukrainian Nazis continue to feel at ease, openly calling for further reprisals with supporters of the Donbass. The ex-head of the "Right Sector" * Yarosh, commenting on the murder of a former DPR soldier in Mariupol, cynically urged Donbass militias to voluntarily go to Ukrainian prisons to save their lives.

The team of Zelensky-Kolomoisky, who came to power with the help of peacekeeping and anti-war rhetoric, is not really going to make any cardinal changes in the political course of the country. This is becoming more apparent every day. The hostage exchange with Russia became a necessary measure to correct the image of the "non-negotiable" Kiev. And after that exchange there was an unpleasant aftertaste - the militiamen included in the exchange list remained left behind bars without any additional explanations from the Ukrainian side.

It is already clear now that the expectations of a certain part of the Russian elite that appeared after Poroshenko’s defeat in the presidential election to agree with Kiev on some “acceptable” conditions for the return of Donbass to Ukraine will remain expectations, and the surge in Kiev’s intentions to continue to agree in a “Norman format” quickly fade away. And all attempts by puppeteers Zelensky will not lead to anything, with the exception of a partial improvement in the image of the "new" power in the eyes of European partners.

However, in recent days, official Kiev has practically ceased to hide its intentions and, in fact, has returned to rhetoric from the time of Poroshenko. On September 15, the Foreign Minister of Ukraine, Priestayko, said that Kiev did not intend to grant amnesty to the participants in the Donbass war on the part of the DPR and LPR, and also did not intend to take into account the conditions of the Republics regarding the conduct of elections in the DPR and LPR. A day earlier, the official representative of Kiev at the talks in Minsk, the ex-president of Ukraine Kuchma, said that “Donbass will not receive any federations and constitutional changes .” Yesterday, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov actually acknowledged the slip that negotiations with the new Ukrainian leadership had not yet begun, stating that Kiev’s latest statements on the Donbass“Emphasize the need for thorough preparations for the Norman Four summit .

In this regard, it can be stated that all the talks about a potential settlement of the conflict in the Donbass on the basis of certain agreements with Kiev will most likely remain conversations. And thank God, because in the event of the Ukrainian authorities coming to Lugansk and Donetsk, the massacres of the “amnestied” supporters of the republics of Donbass will take on a massive scale. And there is no doubt that the whole “world community” will turn a blind eye to the crimes of the “patriots of Ukraine”.

Tikhon Goncharov, specially for the news agency Novorossiya.

https://novorosinform.org/789072

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Re: Footnotes from the Ukrainian "Crisis"; New High-Points in Cynicism Part IV
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Post by blindpig » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:39 pm

"The people have ceased to understand whose state it is." Boris Litvinov - on civil society, Minsk agreements, military-technical cooperation, flash mob and the future of the DPR
09/17/19

"The people have ceased to understand whose state it is." Boris Litvinov - on civil society, Minsk agreements, military-technical cooperation, flash mob and the future of the DPR
Boris Litvinov stood at the origins of the creation of the DPR. In the spring of 2014, on the eve of the fateful referendum for Donbass, it was it that was most often shown on local television channels. Litvinov told why the referendum is right.

For several months he was the head of the Supreme Council of the newly created republic, after when democracy in Donetsk began to decline, he became an ordinary deputy. The parliament lasted about two years: in the spring of 2016 by the decree of the Donetsk parliament, his powers were prematurely terminated "due to the loss of confidence." Litvinov, like the other founding fathers of the DPR, was pushed into the shadows, and completely different people entered the scene.

Today Boris Litvinov leads the Communist Party of the DPR. Despite the fact that the party is not represented in the local parliament, Litvinov takes a rather active citizenship. Perhaps this explains the strange things happening to him: the house of the main communist of Donbass burned down under mysterious circumstances, an explosive device was found under the bottom of his car, and explosions were thundered at party events. About why all this is happening, how criminal cases are being investigated (and whether they have been instituted at all), who can stand behind these events, the “Anti-Fascist” talked with the head of the CPPR. However, our conversation went far beyond the agreed framework, and dragged on for almost two hours, during which we discussed many issues: about civil society and the problems of the republican economy, the “non-Donetsk” administration, the VTS company, nationalization, transfer of “tasty” enterprises to private hands. Of course, we could not ignore the Minsk agreements, as well as the hopes of some people that the Donbass would stop the absorption of Ukraine by NATO. We also discussed the future of the DPR, in any case, what his head of the Donetsk Communist Party sees as his.

We also talked about the protest summer of 2019, opposition rallies and the Communist Party of the Russian Federation in Moscow, the results of the elections to the Moscow City Duma, the main Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny and his “Smart Voting”.

Today is the first part of our big conversation.

“Someday history will put everything in its place. But now I don’t have a home ”- about explosions, arson and attempt
- Boris Alekseevich, explosions sound at KPPR events, your house burned down, explosives were found under your car. What is happening and how are these cases investigated, if even investigated?

- I'll start from home. Yes, my house burned down , but any criminal investigation did not start. The fire department told me that this business could last forever - there’s no video near my house and there were no CCTV cameras, and without this, it’s impossible to figure out who did it. Therefore, to close the question, I signed the Act that the house caught fire itself, from a short circuit after a wire break. Someday, history will put everything in its place. But now I don’t have a home, I have nothing to restore it, now I live in a rented apartment.

As for the car, then there are more chances. I wrote the application on July 26, on August 26 I was in the internal affairs bodies, asked where it was transferred, they explained to me what was transferred to the prosecutor's office. Now I’ll go to the prosecutor’s office, I will find out where it was transferred further. Orally, prosecutors explained to me that the case would be referred to the MGB. How it will be investigated, I do not know. But there is a whole explosive device, there is a video recording, the time is determined when all this happened, there are numbers of explosive products. It seems to me that the investigation should be easier in this case. What will be the result, I do not know. In any case, in five years we have committed a lot of high-profile crimes and I personally have not heard that any case was brought to an end, there were courts convicted. Starting from the death of our famous military, and ending with Alexander Vladimirovich Zakharchenko: there are many statements, "They caught one, two, three, traces lead there." But I would like to see the completed trials and convictions with public coverage in the media. This is not yet. Therefore, if such resonant affairs have not yet been completed, then mine is even more so.

“Who do you suspect?”

- I will not blame anyone, but I will express my assumptions. There are at least six versions. It can be either a Ukrainian trace to destabilize the situation in the Republic, they say, Ukrainian patriots blew up one of those who were at the origins of the creation of the DPR, and domestic political grievances even on our left flank: they didn’t elect someone, they didn’t supported. Today it is not difficult to get an explosive device in the DPR. We can also assume that the attempted assassination may be on a par with the explosions at our congress last year. This may be the elimination of political competitors, perhaps a reaction to the fact that I have some information that is too early to voice - I was at the origins of the creation of the Republic. So there are many versions, but who exactly is behind all this, let the law enforcement authorities respond. The only thing I can say: I immediately dismiss the economic version, since I have no business, accordingly, I have no business interests, and I also have no family conflicts. Political and near-political conflicts of interest - around this we must look.

- On May 1, another resonant event occurred: on one of the main “red” holidays, you were not allowed to perform from the stage on Lenin Square, young people blocked your way to it. This story was vigorously discussed in social networks, and opinion leaders spoke about it . How did it all end?

- Yes, there was such an episode. The possibility of my speech was agreed in advance, it was agreed that they would give me the floor, the topic that I would reveal was even outlined. The guys who blocked my path, this is the so-called “People’s squad”. Very young people who did not quite understand what they were doing. This became public, it even became known in the Communist Party. But we, in fact, are already accustomed to various provocations. This provocation is not the first against the Communists. I think that those who did this on May 1 were counting on the effect of resistance.

- What do you have in mind?

“They were counting on us being drawn into a scandal.” There were a lot of police nearby, and if there were fights, we would be accused of disturbing public order. But we did not succumb to the provocation, we managed to avoid brawls, although the situation was balancing on the brink.

- You said that you learned about the incident in the Communist Party. How did you react to all this?

- With understanding. Unfortunately, there is plenty of this in Russia in relation to the Communists, and this despite the fact that the Communist Party is a parliamentary party. Then I met with the leaders of these guys.

- With Troshin?

“And with him, too.” They said they were just asked not to let me speak. “We were asked - we did,” that was the explanation. They agreed that they would no longer interfere in political processes.

- Who asked them?

- I didn’t ask, because I understand perfectly well that neither the "combatants" nor their leaders will say. But I have an idea who it could be. And this is definitely not the Head of the Republic.

“Then who?”

- There are other high-ranking people who also spoke at the rally that day, and with whom we have long diverged views on events in the DPR. Probably someone didn’t want us to stand side by side on the same stage.

“Donetsk proclaimed the Republic. Now decisions are made by non-Donetsk people ”- about the Minsk Agreements, domestic policy, the“ MTC ”, the Vikings in governance, nationalization and the dream of the EAEU
- Outside the window in September 2019, a new political season has begun. What is the Republic coming into this season with, what is the situation in politics, economics, and what are the foreign policy prospects?

- The situation is alarming, alarming in the areas that you called. The sixth year of the existence of our state has gone, during which time it would have been possible to build a high-quality system of government. However, for whatever question you take, there is no end to the work.

First of all, we still lack a civil society. I am convinced that without the involvement of the broad masses, civil society, to build a Republic, especially - I emphasize, the people! - will not succeed. We remember very well that popular enthusiasm of 2014, on the 15th, partly even in 2016, when the initiative overwhelmed the region, even exceeded the possibilities when the people sincerely wanted to be useful to their state. Now the popular initiative is deep underground. Disappointment among the active population. Those undertakings to which we gave impetus in 2014 did not find their continuation. The society has ripened a big request for meanings, for the image of the future. Many activists of the first wave of the creation of the DPR are pushed into the background of the political process. There are many new people in government not everyone knows and understands the goals of the People's Republics. There is a vacuum on the meanings. People want to understand where we are going, what we are building, why we are doing it. In late August - early September, mourning events were held on the anniversary of the death of Zakharchenko. At the events there were many people who fought for the Republic from the very beginning, together with Zakharchenko. I had a chance to meet with many military commanders, prominent militias and all, as one, ask a question - who formulates political goals and objectives today, who can give answers to questions, where are we going and why, who will outline the image of the future, who will offer a program to achieve the image the future? That is, this request has matured both among the civilian population and the military. Everyone has. Unfortunately, today in the Republic there is nobody, perhaps, except for the Head, who from time to time tries to formulate meanings.

In 2014, the construction of a socially-oriented state became initially desirable for us, and then already obvious. In order for the state to be socially oriented, the people, the very civil society, must participate most actively in their life. The people must understand that this is their state. Today, people have ceased to understand whose state it is. Especially the last six months or a year, when they are trying to position us, to impose on us the idea that we should become part of Ukraine with a special status. Unfortunately, no one is leaving this direction, and in the last year it has been imposing itself more and more on us. It annoys our society. Especially those who stood at the origins of the creation of the state, who actively participated in its construction, who still want and can build our DNR state. It’s ours,

- Do I understand correctly that you are opposed to the Minsk agreements?

- No, I am in favor of continuing negotiations in Minsk.

- But Minsk suggests the return of the DPR to Ukraine.

- I am a supporter, and here is the part. First of all, in terms of establishing peace. I think that there are no people who would oppose this. Although no, one is still there. Rather, one (laughs). Some girl 28 years old, as she said, calls me every week from Latvia, says that she is from Daugavpils. I don’t know how she found my phone number. At first I just wanted to hang up, but then I somehow got involved, started talking to her. She probably has or had something to do with the Ukrainian nationalist battalions, because she hinted to me that she was a sniper, said "I see you all in the sight of a sniper rifle."And we discussed several times with her the end of the military confrontation. I say that we are for peace, we do not want to fight with the inhabitants of Ukraine, we can coexist peacefully, even having different ideas about our present and future. And she convinces me that the war should continue, and she wants to see all of us, residents of the DPR, only in sight. This is perhaps the only person I know who is committed to war. All the rest, well, or the absolute majority, are tuned, I think, only to the world. Minsk agreements contribute to peace, these exchanges, let's say. These are steps towards each other, and this, of course, needs to be addressed. If in conditional tomorrow Ukraine opens the way for trade with the DPR, lifts the blockade, I will also welcome this. We also support the dialogue between the leaders of the DPR and Ukraine, the search for ways of peaceful coexistence. But in the political part, I do not see that we can become part of Ukraine in any state, in any form: confederation, federation, special status, autonomy. I do not see such an opportunity today, and I will say why.

In order to become part of Ukraine, Ukraine needs to radically reboot. In 2014, before the coup, Ukraine was one state in all respects - economic, political, military. It was non-aligned, it was part of the CIS, and the hope for integration into the Eurasian civilization space persisted, albeit weak. Today, Ukraine has written in its Constitution that it is heading for the EU and NATO. Ukraine at the legislative level practically imposed a ban on the official status of the Russian language, a ban on the historical memory of a common fate with the Russian people, a ban on the symbols of pride in our common victories and achievements with Russia. Finally, in the military doctrine of Ukraine, Russia is listed as enemy number one. In order for us to agree on something with them, at least, their decisions and aspirations must be removed from the Constitution, Legislation abolished. This is the first.

The second one. In the same Minsk agreements, it is written that Ukraine should amend the Constitution in terms of the administrative-territorial structure, that is, become, for example, a confederate or federal state. But I don’t see what they want and can do it. Further. During these five years in Ukraine, people were actively brainwashed by nationalist propaganda, turned against us and Russia, during this time the children graduated from schools and institutes, that is, a whole generation appeared against us, and I see no way to remove the consequences of this propaganda from their thoughts. Those people who impose on us the idea that we can become a special territory within Ukraine and influence its policy, they seem to make a mistake. The same error that I talked aboutPutin regarding the position of Lenin in the formation of the USSR. Vladimir Vladimirovich said: “... For example, Ukraine, Donbass was transferred under what pretext? An increase in the percent of the proletariat in Ukraine in order to have great social support there ... ". And such a Leninist position today is perceived as erroneous, in the historical perspective, the Donbass walked in the channel of Kiev until 2014. So now a similar mistake could be repeated if the Donbass is included in the orbit of Ukraine, supposedly in order to become a brake on the path of its pro-Western aspirations. This will not work. This will be a similar error. Then it was believed that the Donbass was proletarizing Ukraine, partly what happened during the Soviet era, but historically the spirit of farmers, Ukrainian nationalism and Russophobia, together with anti-Sovietism, manifested and flourished as soon as the Soviet socialist system collapsed. And now again, someone thinks that the Donbass will slow down the movement of Ukraine into NATO. It will not happen.

- Why?

“Because the aspiration engine of Ukraine is not in Ukraine, but in the USA.” And unfortunately, nothing depends on whether the Donbass will become a part of Ukraine or not.

- You do not support the political part of Minsk. Good. Then how do you see the future of the DPR? Independence? Joining Russia?

- It seems to me that the year 2020 should become quite interesting. At the end of December of this year (in any case, it was so stated) all the contradictions on the way to strengthening a single Union State between Russia and Belarus should be removed. If this happens, it has a chance to earn the Eurasian Union, uniting the states of the post-Soviet space. And we - the DNI and LC - need to strive to become part of this association. Today we are observing how centripetal political processes begin. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, barely noticeable aspirations for a new unification of kindred peoples begin. Many forces in the world counteract this, prevent it from happening, and will do everything to prevent this from happening. But there is such a tendency. And we must get involved in this process. But for this, a conflict with our status must be resolved. In fact, we proved our choice in the struggle - the creation and strengthening of the People's Republics, and the support of other states is legally needed. The Communist Party faction in the State Duma of Russia has long been calling on the authorities to recognize our republics. Russia, as a state, must recognize us, and Russia and I have no other way.

- That is, you see the future of the DPR through Russia's recognition of your independence, and after that - entry into the Eurasian Union as an independent state?

- Yes. We must become part of the Eurasian Union, and in Ukraine we must understand that the one with Russia has a future. Those who have left Russia, such as Ukraine now, have no future. If we talk about Ukraine, then, contrary to popular belief that Ukraine went to Europe, I do not see this movement. Ukraine did not go to Europe, but rather to an alliance opposing Europe, to some American-Polish-Baltic alliance. And there she is needed purely as an eternal irritant for Russia - and no more.

We must become an example for Ukraine, and show its historical path of development. And you need to start building such an example right now. Rather, it was necessary to start building initially, in 2014, but now it is not too late. We must build a civil society, democratize all processes, make our economy open. With our worthy being, we must form the consciousness of the population of Ukraine, I repeat - only together with Russia do we, the Donbass, and Ukraine have a future.

- The economy of the DPR can certainly not be called open.

- Exactly! Our economy is completely closed. We are told that we can’t talk about anything, they say, war, secrecy. Those who need it know everything! What does it mean you can’t talk ?! People living in the DPR have the impression that the decisions about her future fate are made by non-Donetsk people. We, Donetsk, proclaimed our Republic, and began to build it, but today non-Donetsk decisions are made.

- Do you mean Moscow?

- Not only. Rather, those who rule here on the territory. Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, Government ...

- ... Deputy Prime Minister agrees , Prime Minister Selidovsky ...

- …Yes. But I'm not talking about who was born where, you can be born anywhere. I am talking about where they came from from our territory to lead. The important thing is where they worked, who sent them here, whose interests they represent and defend. It somehow happened that our entire economy, its most significant assets, through Vneshtorgservice and its structure was transferred to the management of Sergey Kurchenko, an oligarch from Ukraine who now lives in Russia. And it is not those who created the Republic who manage the economy, but those who later came in the interests of completely different people, not the local population. In any case, the inhabitants of the Republic do not feel that the potential of the DPR is working to develop and strengthen our young country.

In our Republic, despite the fact that many have left, there are still people who are experienced, competent, who understand the problems, and who can solve them. Personnel of qualified managers and organizers of production are available. And these cadres want to work to strengthen our statehood. These cadres need to be involved, and they can be employed only through civil society. It should be noted that recently, the Donetsk Republic Public Movement, on behalf of the Head of the DPR, launched an open competition “Support to the Donetsk People’s Republic” for young, motivated, hardworking, dedicated and active residents. But it has touched the future. And if we miss the time, just a year and a half, then the young people, who don’t know what happened in 2014, and to everyone else, will be imposed a different agenda and will not be led to where it was originally intended.

- And where will they lead?

- Everything revolves, in fact, around power and property. And property is in the first place. In the same Minsk, Ukrainians discuss, first of all, ownership issues, they say, first let the owners at their enterprises in Donbass, and then we will talk about everything else. But how can you let those who left their teams, enterprises, organizations to their own devices? Back in 2014-15, I said that what is thrown must be nationalized. It is necessary that the state has a package of tangible assets, they must be taken into account, the effectiveness of their use must be monitored, and developed in the interests of our state. But this does not happen. Today we have dozens of abandoned industries. There are also in satisfactory condition, there are broken ones, there are already cut into scrap metal. Effectively managing such an economy is the task of the People’s Republic. When a person comes who wants to prove himself, he needs, even for free, to give these assets back to those who can practically revive production. Of course, we need comprehensive control on the part of the state, and on the part of the labor collective, and on the part of civil society. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands. When a person comes who wants to prove himself, he needs, even for free, to give these assets back to those who can practically revive production. Of course, we need comprehensive control on the part of the state, and on the part of the labor collective, and on the part of civil society. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands. When a person comes who wants to prove himself, he needs, even for free, to give these assets back to those who can practically revive production. Of course, we need comprehensive control on the part of the state, and on the part of the labor collective, and on the part of civil society. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands. who can practically revive production. Of course, we need comprehensive control on the part of the state, and on the part of the labor collective, and on the part of civil society. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands. who can practically revive production. Of course, we need comprehensive control on the part of the state, and on the part of the labor collective, and on the part of civil society. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands. And if he took the enterprise in order to finish the last, for this it is necessary to plant, but if people want to revive something, they should be given this opportunity. This is not happening yet. What's going on? They say either the return of the former owners, who as soon as they come and restore the enterprises, will immediately go into politics, because they need to protect their interests, or generally profitable enterprises that could work for the state, they just transfer it to private hands.

For example, Gorlovsky meat processing plant. I know this team, in 2014 there were 140 employees out of almost 300 people, the owner fled. At first he tried to lead from Ukraine, then the team began to do something on its own, productivity fell many times, the enterprise was falling apart before our eyes. Then Zakharchenko appointed a manager there, a good manager, professional, competent, the enterprise became state-owned, like a number of others. The director appointed by the state raised the enterprise, raised production from 14 to 98 tons of products. At the meat processing plant, salary arrears were closed, the staff began to revive, 270 people are now working there, the salary is stable, and even a certain level of profitability has been reached. And suddenly, on you! The company is transferred to private hands. But if it has already begun to work as a state,

The situation is similar with Silur - Khartsyzsk Cable Plant: they transferred the enterprise to private hands to some company registered only recently in Rostov. That is, there is a withdrawal of more or less attractive assets from the public administration to the private. These are the first swallows, then, for sure, there will be more. We, those who created this state, are not satisfied with this position.

“Do I understand correctly that you are proposing nationalization?”

- Yes. Everything that is abandoned, left by the former owners to their fate, must be nationalized and transferred to state property. And then the state should take care of the efficient use of property. And such efficiency should be clear to the residents of the Republic. A law is needed on the nationalization of strategic sectors of the economy and abandoned property. It can be written out in different ways. And you can dispose of such property in different ways. This may be a lease, a concession, or the creation of national enterprises; there are, in fact, a lot of options. And we, with experienced comrades, are ready to create such a law, the Communists worked on it even when I was a deputy in the People’s Council. This must be dealt with. But now no one is doing this, in any case, there is no information about this.

- Perhaps because it does not correspond to the spirit and letter of the Minsk agreements.

“They told us - we came. It's fun here ”- about a flash mob in the name of Medvedchuk’s rating and an anti-flash mob with an appeal to Putin
- Boris Alekseevich, in the summer, the DPR stirred up a flash mob, the participants of which (supposedly a million of them) asked Vladimir Zelensky to grant Donbass a special status as part of Ukraine and allow them to speak Russian. In response to this, the indignant Donetsk people intended to hold a rally, asking Vladimir Putin to recognize the choice of Donbass. Autumn came, passions gradually subsided. How do you rate the summer events?

- I rate this as political technology. And as an unsuccessful attempt to fulfill someone’s political attitudes. On the eve of the elections in Ukraine, someone wanted to lower the rating of Zelensky’s team and raise the rating of Medvedchuk. How? "Zelensky, recognize the choice of Donbass!". The calculation of political strategists was that Zelensky would refuse, would not want to do this, and at that time Medvedchuk would say that he had to sit down at the negotiating table, and his rating would grow on this. In my opinion, the organizers made some mistakes. Firstly, the flash mob needed to be carried out, if they had already decided on it, about a month earlier than when they spent, because at that time when they spent, it had no effect, except for the negative. Secondly, it was necessary to think over this technology better, think over what to ask Zelensky, what to contact him with. For example, recognize the choice of Donbass, the choice of 2014 - yes. Stop the war, exchange prisoners - yes. Sit at the negotiating table on the further coexistence of our states - yes. All this was within the framework of the Minsk process, and that was what we had to stop at. But when they began to ask for pensions, it was already a political mistake.

- Why? Just this point did not cause any disagreement.

- The fact is that in Ukraine there is a joint pension system. That is, the current generation pays contributions to the Pension Fund, and from these contributions pensions are paid to pensioners. Our pensioners do not have individual accounts on which their personal pension would accrue, and which Ukraine would freeze. In the tenth years, Ukraine began to introduce such a practice, but very few had such accounts, and I am sure that our current pensioners did not even have them. Therefore, in Ukraine there are no personal pensions; the system is arranged in a completely different way. Therefore, in order to return pensions to our old people, it is necessary that Zelensky recognize our statehood, then an agreement on mutual pension provision must be concluded. This is done at the interstate level under interstate treaties. If there is no such agreement, then no one is obligated to pay anything to anyone. This is the first.

And the second - if you are counting on a Ukrainian pension, you consider yourself a Ukrainian citizen. I understand our low-income pensioners, I myself am a pensioner with a pension of 4,650 rubles, as you know, this is barely enough for the minimum basic needs, that is, for food. And it makes no sense to tell them about the joint system, individual accounts, they just need someone to give them a pension for their many years of work - that's all. Who it will be for them is not so important. Therefore, the requirement “return the pension” means that we recognize ourselves as part of Ukraine.

Further. Please allow me to speak Russian. Guys, what are you talking about ?! After you have gained the right to speak Russian in blood, after that you turn to Zelensky with a request to allow this to be done ?!

And last, of course, is a request for special status in Ukraine. And that annoyed most of our population.

I was on this flash mob when there were a million on the screen. I went, of course, not to support this action. He explained that this was a political action, that it had nothing to do with returning to Ukraine, it was simply unsuccessfully formulated slogans that the organizers wrote. Many participants in this action did not understand at all where they had come. “This is fun,” they said, “they removed from work, they removed from classes, they told us we came, and here it’s fun” - that was the answer. This is the question of a million signatories.

In response to this political performance, some of our caring, politically active citizens decided to hold their counter-monitoring, but it also seemed wrong to me. They wanted to appeal to Putin to recognize the choice of Donbass. The calculation of the flash mob to appeal to Zelensky was that he would not do anything and would not accept the action at all. It turns out that the organizers of the appeal to Putin hoped that if Putin turned to him at the rally, he would do what they asked for? On social networks, especially Ukrainian ones, they immediately grasped the topic and began to equate Zelensky, who does not fulfill the requests of Donbass, and Putin. This approach is wrong at the root. What Putin can do and Russia can do: recognition of documents, diplomas of Russian education, accreditation of universities, passports, license plates, a single monetary system and much more. These are steps towards recognition. Therefore, I told the organizers of the counter-meeting that if there is a desire to hold such a rally, the slogan “Russia, thank you!” Will be appropriate, where you will thank Russia for everything and show that Ukraine and its presidents are not doing anything to end the war. That would be right. Convincing them did not work. But initially the flash mob was a technology to raise Medvedchuk’s rating in the Ukrainian elections.

To be continued.

http://antifashist.com/item/narod-peres ... z5zlhZQlT8
http://www.thebellforum.net/forums/view ... &start=120
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:39 am

southpaw


With Pompeo admitting he was on the call, I want to note that its listed place was the WH residence and time 9:03a.

Assuming Pompeo didn’t just happen to be chilling in the residence that morning, he must have dialed in... for what was meant to be a purely congratulatory call?

Image
fwiw I believe I heard @TVietor08 and @brhodes say on their fine podcast (https://overcast.fm/+H9ePZadpw ) that it is not standard operating procedure to have the Secretary of State sitting on the line unannounced when the President calls a foreign leader.


Here’s the whistleblower on expectations that the call would be “routine.” https://intelligence.house.gov/uploaded ... nclass.pdf
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/ ... 2736279553



Through diligent research, Seth Abramson exposes a story that U.S. media has largely missed: a pre-election geopolitical conspiracy involving Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Israel, and Russia that sought to put Trump in the White House—and succeeded.


and Ukraine is just a pawn to ALL of them
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:29 am

Kyiv Post


Throughout the evening, simultaneous protests took place in Ukrainian cities of Lviv, Kharkiv, Mariupol, attracting dozens of people who oppose the formula, branding it a capitulation to #Russia.

1:45 PM - 2 Oct 2019



Read more about the controversial 'Steinmeier Formula' here:
https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1179498267765288960



Kyiv protesters rally against approval of ‘Steinmeier Formula’ (PHOTOS)
Oct. 2 at 10:34 pm
Protesters gathered at Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in Kyiv on the evening of Oct. 2, 2019, to protest against the just-approved final edition of the so-called 'Steinmeier Formula' that sets the controversial terms of possible local elections in the Russian-occupied Donbas.
Protesters gathered at Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in Kyiv on the evening of Oct. 2, 2019, to protest against the just-approved final edition of the so-called ‘Steinmeier Formula’ that sets the controversial terms of possible local elections in the Russian-occupied Donbas.

Throughout the evening, simultaneous protests took place in the Ukrainian cities of Lviv, Kharkiv, Mariupol, attracting dozens of people who oppose the formula, branding it a capitulation to Russia.

Read our main story about the ‘Steinmeier Formula’ here.
https://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/pho ... ula-photos
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:34 am

So this is your proposed alliance? With the "dozens" of Ukrainian ultra-nationalists "attracted" to the "spontaneous" protests against a long-awaited peace deal brokered by Germany and France?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:37 am

no
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:39 am

Well, that's what you're currently pimping here.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:39 am

no I am not pimping anything


pimping and diarrhea ....boy you wordsmithy guys have upped your game this morning :roll:
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby chump » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:03 pm


http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/09/l ... .html#more


MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, 2019

Look who’s not laughing!

Image


So why is “Ze” (as hip young Ukrainians like to call him) looking so sad? Unless you’ve been held incommunicado in a log cabin up in the mountains, you probably know that Trump is in the process of being impeached by the lower chamber of the US parliament (or whatever they call it) which is held by his enemies. The impeachment is guaranteed to end up as a dead letter because the upper chamber (which is held by his friends) will never allow it. The rationale for the impeachment is that Trump is alleged to have coerced Zelensky to dig up dirt on his rival Joe Biden during a secret phone call, the allegation having been made in an anonymous secret memo that has turned out to contain only hearsay evidence.

Now, this is all just too funny because Joe Biden, being a senile old coot, has already voluntarily confessed, on camera and for all to see, to successfully strong-arming the Ukraine’s previous horribly corrupt oligarch-president, Petro Poroshenko into firing his chief prosecutor, who was investigating various shady dealings of Joe Biden’s coke fiend son Hunter with a Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings. And the fired prosecutor is now on record stating that he was fired for exactly that reason, so that’s that.

Still, the concoction that Trump tried to coerce Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden (rather than merely ask him nicely) could have been given some legs (by carefully filtering out all relevant information in the US mass-media). But then Trump did something unspeakable: he removed the top secret classification from the transcript of his phone call with Ze and released it, as well as the anonymous secret memo. US presidents have the authority to release secret information at their sole discretion.

Let’s pause on this point for a moment. There is an excellent reason why telephone conversations between heads of state are considered top secret: if they weren’t, then it would make no sense for heads of state to ever talk to one another privately. They could just make public pronouncements, no deals would ever be negotiated, and international relations would fall apart completely.

Trump’s willingness to declassify and publish the transcript of a telephone conversation with the leader of a supposedly sovereign nation signals two things: the nation in question isn’t sovereign, and its leader is not a real leader. Certain things Trump said during his joint press conference with Zelensky clarified his position on the Ukraine. He said that supporting the Ukraine is a European problem, not a US problem. He also said that Zelensky should sort out his problems by talking to Putin.

Clearly, Trump views the Ukraine as a bit of Obama’s legacy that he is willing to sell for a dollar—except that nobody would want to buy it because it’s broken. Still, Trump was nice enough to say that the Ukraine has a bright future because of all the beautiful prostitutes I mean models… beauty pageant contestants… whatever. I am sure Trump was speaking from firsthand experience.

How broken is the Ukraine? Well, here is a newsflash: the Ukraine just lost a nuclear power plant. Khmelnitskaya Atomic Energy Station is no more. Its two reactors are down, probably permanently. One is supposedly shut down for "routine maintenance"—but nothing is particularly routine in that country these days. The other reactor has a completely totaled generator due to overheating caused by a wadded up rag that was left inside the cooling circuit for one of the shaft bearings.

The Ukraine used to have six plants with 15 reactors; now it's down to five plants and just nine reactors. These have been running flat out due to shortages of gas and coal, generating over half of the country’s electricity. This outage will require an additional million tonnes of coal (200-300 freight trains with 50 cars in each) and this coal can only come from... Russia, of course! Because Ukrainian coal is too low-quality—50% ash—and the Ukraine’s Soviet-era power plants can only burn it by mixing it with higher-quality Russian coal. But it can’t do so because Ukrainian railways are woefully short of locomotives and rolling stock and have been unable to bring the wheat harvest to the docks for shipping, never mind ship in an extra million tonnes of coal. Oh, and Russia would need to be paid for the coal, but the Ukrainians don't have any money left.

It is possible to go on and on in this vein, piling up evidence that the country is going to the dogs. Over three million Ukrainians are currently in Russia, trying to make a living as guest workers or attempting to relocate to Russia permanently. Many more are working in Poland or other parts of the EU. The previous Ukrainian president, who was voted out overwhelmingly in favor of Ze, has a stack of criminal cases pending against him... and so on.

The heating season has started but the Ukraine’s natural gas reserves are far too low to last the winter and there is no agreement for new imports from Russia or any hint of an active negotiation. People in the east of the country (which was part of Russia until Lenin handed it over to the Ukraine) are scrambling to get Russian passports. The government is eager to lift the moratorium on selling farmland to foreigners; one of the few remaining Ukrainian assets is its fertile soil. The Ukraine has lost some of the most valuable parts of its territory when Crimea voted to secede and the heavily industrialized eastern regions seceded de facto. In short, this is a never-ending sob story.

Against this backdrop, there is the Ukraine as a political construct. It is conceived of as a pro-Western, pro-American and anti-Russian entity. The use of the Russian language (which previously accounted for around 95% of all language use) has been outlawed. A fake alternative history of the Ukraine has been concocted and is being taught in schools. Ukrainian nationalists regularly march around Kiev sporting Nazi insignia and carrying torches. World War II Nazi collaborators who were responsible for massacring Poles and Jews have been enshrined as national heroes. The official narrative, from which no Ukrainian politician can ever deviate, is that the Ukraine is at war with Russia. This is most amusing, because the converse is obviously not the case: if Russia were indeed at war with the Ukraine, then the Ukraine would have ceased to exist—a point I made in an article I published five years ago.

This political construct was engineered by US officials (with Canadians pitching in) based on Zbigniew Brzezinski’s “grand chessboard” theory that the loss of the Ukraine would thwart Russia’s imperial ambitions. They all somehow missed two obvious points: that Russia has no imperial ambitions (it has all the land and the resources it could ever want); and that for Russia the Ukraine has been a drain and a burden, so good riddance!

In previous eras the Ukrainian territory had been essential in military terms—as a land buffer between Russia and a hostile West. But now that a hypersonic rocket launched from the middle of Siberia can reliably blow up the Pentagon 18 minutes later, Russia does not need any land buffers to defend its territory. If attacked, Russia will obliterate those who ordered the attack, no matter where in the world they live.

While the Ukraine, as part of the Russian world, is important, an important requirement for being part of the Russian world is willingness to die for it. The people in Eastern Ukraine have demonstrated such valor, and so they are given humanitarian aid and other forms of assistance and are issued Russian passports soon after they ask for them (and submit all of the required paperwork). As far as the rest, they have demonstrated quite a bit of anti-Russian hostility and an overwhelming willingness to sit around and do nothing while their country is being looted and destroyed, and so they will get nothing.

The last remaining use Russia has for the Ukraine is as a natural gas conduit to Europe. But given the political situation and the decrepit state of the Ukrainian gas transit network, Russia has worked hard to build pipelines that circumvent the Ukraine. These are now close to completion, obviating the need for Ukrainian gas transit. It should be kept in mind that while Europe would freeze and go dark if deprived of Russian natural gas, Russia could stop its natural gas exports altogether and still run a trade surplus. The existing gas transit deal expires at the end of 2019, and the new deal has been stuck at the stage of general discussions and is unlikely to ever advance to the stage of actual negotiations.

Given all of this, let’s try to put ourselves in Zelensky’s shoes. He is a Russian Jew. His native language is Russian, as is the case for all Russian Jews, wherever they happen to live, Israel and the Ukraine included. He speaks passable Ukrainian, as a second language, but often lapses into Russian while trying to speak Ukrainian. His English is rudimentary. Good, native knowledge of Ukrainian is rare among Russian Jews. The Ukraine’s large Jewish population, centered on Odessa, is educated, middle-class and for at least the last century has been an integral part of the greater Russian culture. Historically there has been little love lost between the city-dwelling Jews and the Ukrainian-speaking peasants inhabiting the rural hinterlands, who weren’t even allowed into the cities until after the Russian Revolution.

Isn’t it hilarious that a Russian Jew has been elected to rule over a bunch of Russia-hating Nazis? Add to this the fact that Zelensky is a comedic actor. He starred in a television show called “Servant of the People” in which he played the Ukrainian president. His election campaign was a continuation of the show in real life, made effortless by the loathsome nature of his predecessor, and he was elected in a landslide and granted a large parliamentary majority.

But then his presidency turned into a continuation of his comedy show, with predictable results. In fact, this is all predictable. During the Ukraine’s few brief periods of political independence, Ukrainian politics has never failed to degenerate into a farce. A bunch of Ukrainian Nazi-worshiping nationalists being presided over by a Russian Jew (who is a professional comedian to boot) is, you must concede, a thoroughly farcical state of affairs.

But Zelensky isn’t laughing; in fact, seated next to Trump, he projected abject misery. Why is that? The reasons are clear. By publishing the transcript of their telephone conversation, Trump treated him as a nonentity to whom the usual rules of secrecy governing private communications between leaders of sovereign nations do not apply. And then upon reading the transcript it becomes clear that Zelensky had grovelled shamefully before Trump, had bad-mouthed Merkel and Macron and had generally made a fool of himself. The context in which the transcript was released thrust Zelensky into the middle of a bitter partisan fight within the United States, in which he has no good moves: if he refuses to investigate Burisma Holdings, which is at the heart of the Biden scandal, Trump will never talk to him again; if he allows the investigation to proceed, Trump’s sworn enemies will go after his scalp.

And then there is the fact that Trump, in a few short sentences, completely demolished the entire political construct of modern Ukraine. For Trump, it was an Obama/Clinton legacy project, and, as with everything those two had ever touched, a failure and an embarrassment. Therefore, Trump’s message is, you are dismissed, and if you want help, then talk to the Europeans (whom you just insulted). Then, Trump wants good relations with Russia and has no need for a Russophobic Ukraine remote-controlled by elements of the Deep State. In telling Zelensky to go and talk to Putin, Trump stymied an entire unproductive and harmful direction of US foreign policy. The fallout was quick: US special envoy to the Ukraine Kurt Volker swiftly resigned.

Zelensky is now completely isolated. He can’t talk to Trump because Trump isn’t interested. He can’t talk to the Europeans because he had just insulted them. And he’s been told to talk to Putin… except he can’t. First, Putin has been endlessly painted as the image of the enemy in the Ukrainian press, and if Zelensky tries to make peace with Putin he will be made to look like a traitor and may face rebellion from within his own ranks.

Second, Putin has made it clear that there is nothing for them to discuss until Zelensky fulfills his promises, as spelled out in the Minsk agreements. Namely, the Ukrainian side has to stand down militarily and pass legislation to put in place a federalized structure in which Donetsk and Lugansk, and other regions if they so wish, are granted wide autonomy. But if this were to happen, then the Ukraine, in its current conception as a monoethnic unitary state, will cease to exist because there is no common ground between the pro-Western Nazis and the Russians in the east.

Previously, the Ukrainian government thrashed between these two extremes as a sort of bipolar disorder. But over the past five years the battle lines between the two sides have hardened into actual battle lines, with actual trenches and redoubts and real military weapons being fired from both sides, and the only plausible way forward is through divorce due to irreconcilable differences. But here too is a problem: while the Russian east of the Ukraine can hope for some amount of Russian support, although even there it won’t be given unconditionally, the chance that the European Union, in its current state of disunity, and given the politically unsavory nature of Ukrainian Nazis, will step up and help western Ukraine, is virtually nil.

Given all of this, it seems perfectly clear why the clown-cum-president “Ze” is now a sad clown. It’s a sad situation for him. He is quite talented as an actor, and quite funny (but only when speaking Russian) but now he has been cast in a distinctly unfunny role, which he will nevertheless be forced to play for five long eye-watering, nose-bleeding years! What a fate!

This is a sad story about a sad president, but not every president in the world is sad. To compensate, next I will tell you the story of a happy, smiling, laughing president: Hassan Rouhani of Iran. I haven’t seen such a happy president in a long time, and will explain what must be making him so happy.


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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby alloneword » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:49 pm

^^^ Thanks for that, Chump. I sometimes need reminding of how good Orlov can be when he's 'on one'... :D Informative and pretty funny... (I'm looking forward to the 'Iran' piece - hoping it's not behind the paywall).
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Re: Libya, Syria And Now Ukraine - Color Revolution By Force

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:39 pm

Brought to you by


Sgt. Pompeo's Croney Dark Hearts Band

Image


Huge Russian military movement going towards Ukraine.

Russian Military equipment the move. Photo taken in Voronezh train station.

https://mobile.twitter.com/olgaNYC1211/ ... 2767889409


https://mobile.twitter.com/for_ura80/st ... 8136634368


Russian Military equipment the move. Photo taken in Voronezh train station.
https://mobile.twitter.com/olgaNYC1211/ ... 2767889409

Info re Belarus activity
Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 5.33.46 PM.png

https://mobile.twitter.com/olgaNYC1211/ ... 4998180864
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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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