True Detective on HBO

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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:53 pm

guruilla » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:05 pm wrote:Finding a way to bring this bunch of soul-burned losers into contact with the agents of Plutocracy would have been a hell of a coup, because really, the two worlds never meet, do they? I think if it showed more about why Frank couldn't get access to the upper ranks and what he would have to do, become, to do so, and how that turned him against the power he was aspiring to gain and aligned him more with Ray (back when he was fully broken), in powerlessness, that would have been way more interesting. And if they were just trying to find out what was going on, without trying to bust it open or stop it (admitting defeat from the start), that might make it more plausible that they could gain some access.


Great points. I was talking with my watching buddy about the fact that Velcoro would more likely be killed for leaving the fold while knowing as much as he does. "No person, no problem," as a great moral philosopher once observed.

Part of what made S1's final arc credible was the fact Marty had retired on good terms and Cohle was human waste; neither could be taken seriously enough to constitute a threat on the radar screens that really mattered.

I'm less skeptical about the "Dysfunction Avengers" aspect. Katherine Davis -- aka Kamala Harris -- has proven herself to be a cunning manipulator, and she knows that the ultimate meat hook holding these three characters together is the shootout they survived. When that doesn't prove to be enough, she moves straight for the jugular, making an impossible promise to keep Velcoro and his son together.

I also agree that the drug binge was "more Tarantino than Lynch" but felt it was appropriate, since he's processing and accepting what is probably the single best decision we will see Raymond Velcoro make on this show: giving up his son.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby guruilla » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:58 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:53 pm wrote:
I'm less skeptical about the "Dysfunction Avengers" aspect. Katherine Davis -- aka Kamala Harris -- has proven herself to be a cunning manipulator, and she knows that the ultimate meat hook holding these three characters together is the shootout they survived. When that doesn't prove to be enough, she moves straight for the jugular, making an impossible promise to keep Velcoro and his son together.

I also agree that the drug binge was "more Tarantino than Lynch" but felt it was appropriate, since he's processing and accepting what is probably the single best decision we will see Raymond Velcoro make on this show: giving up his son.

Yah, but surely it was the horrendous comedown that brought him around to some sort of sane decision, not the wild high? The scene seemed like it was hoping for (or maybe had been written as?) an Apocalypse Now-opening style breakdown, but settled for a thrashy soundtrack and some quick cuts, hence the Tarantino comparison. Considering the pivotal nature of the scene, as you point out, it needed more gravitas, IMO.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:02 pm

Well, I guess I have so many friends and family who process information in essentially the same way, it fit to me. Horrendous comedowns are kind of the point, for some of us.

And as ever; if you think you're not feeling it and it's inferior, that's pretty much the case. Inception jokes aside, I don't dispute that Brekin detested the first season and was right to do so. I think it's hugely unfair to take the angle of "If you don't like it, you don't get it." There's plenty of chaff in the videodrome, yeah? For instance, I have a lot of friends who wicked love anime -- which I detest instinctively -- and they all tell me I just need to give Show XYZ time and attention to appreciate it. They are all correct. So am I.

There will definitely be more conceptual grist for discussion in the final two installments either way, but...here's hoping season three isn't The Matrix Revolutions.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby guruilla » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:21 pm

The whole question of quantum entertainment ~ how much the watching effects the outcome of a movie or TV show ~ is just waiting to be raised.

Pull back a bit and I can accept that entertainment is like psychic food, only a lot more varied (because less natural, even the rawest form of art-entertainment is only a replica of Nature); meaning that it really depends on what our psyche needs at any given time. Developing discernment isn't quite the same as having perfect taste . . .

For example, I know someone who (maybe) underwent a cathartic healing by playing ultraviolent video games in which he got to be a Nazi.

I wouldn't say to someone who didn't like The Counselor that they didn't get it; only that it wasn't meant for them. On the other hand, if they rave about The Hangover, well, some gulfs are just unbridgeable.... :lol:

But the notion that external reality (even including TV shows) is mutable, not fixed, and a 100% subjective (ie, isolated) experience is pretty terrifying. Maybe the only thing more terrifying is that we could have somehow landed in a society overrun by people who just don't "get" good TV/movies/art/conspiracy, whatever.

BTW, I wasn't questioning the enlightening power of horrendous comedowns, only the show's ability or willingness to depict that horror/enlightenment effectively.

& I do think there's a growing phenomenon of corporate art promising & delivering something halfway great and then quickly slipping us a shoddy imitation, magician style, counting on our being so psyched up and previously invested in the product that we will hypnotize ourselves into having an experience of quality. Imagination hijack, or something. (Anyone see the first two episodes of Mr. Robot for example? From kicking ass to sucking elephant balls in two shows?! My experience, anyhow.)
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:36 am

Ugh...so freaking disappointed with last nights episode. Such a tense, emotional episode completely ruined by a cheesey Magnum PI/Columbo score and ending. I mean I wasnt expecting some Carsoa/Eyes Wide Shut Mansion orgy, but good christ that was terribly anti climactic and bad.

That Lash case in LA at least seems like the real True Detective Season 2 Ben Caspere.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby BrandonD » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:50 pm

guruilla » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:21 pm wrote:& I do think there's a growing phenomenon of corporate art promising & delivering something halfway great and then quickly slipping us a shoddy imitation, magician style, counting on our being so psyched up and previously invested in the product that we will hypnotize ourselves into having an experience of quality. Imagination hijack, or something. (Anyone see the first two episodes of Mr. Robot for example? From kicking ass to sucking elephant balls in two shows?! My experience, anyhow.)


I definitely agree. This was my impression from the first season, that's what pretty much killed my interest in this series.

Take, for example, the subject of the "green-eared spaghetti monster" seen by the little girl. This is brought up early in the series, and it (along with the occult symbology) gave many people the impression that something legitimately bizarre and unique was involved in this mystery.

Turns out, it's just your garden-variety television psycho who happened to have green house paint on his ears. A very large and disappointing (and some would argue, illogical) jump to make - that helped turn what was initially a strange/intriguing mystery into something pedestrian.

Of course, a lot of it boils down to taste and expectations.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby BrandonD » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:02 pm

By the way, I've had those exact same thoughts - a psychological method of suggesting/promising some sort of important revelation or enlightenment, the type that many people naturally seek, and then at some point slipping in a counterfeit revelation which actually just serves to strengthen the illusion?
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:28 pm

BrandonD » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:02 pm wrote:By the way, I've had those exact same thoughts - a psychological method of suggesting/promising some sort of important revelation or enlightenment, the type that many people naturally seek, and then at some point slipping in a counterfeit revelation which actually just serves to strengthen the illusion?


Image
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:13 pm

Image

Eddie
Maybe you were already nervous. Maybe you lacked grit.

I see you. Running through the trees.

You're small. The trees are like...giants. Men are chasing you.

Ray
I'm right here.

Eddie
You step out the trees. You ain't that fast.

Now, son ... they kill you. They shoot you to pieces.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby guruilla » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:01 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:28 pm wrote:
BrandonD » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:02 pm wrote:By the way, I've had those exact same thoughts - a psychological method of suggesting/promising some sort of important revelation or enlightenment, the type that many people naturally seek, and then at some point slipping in a counterfeit revelation which actually just serves to strengthen the illusion?


Image


Or:

Image
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:21 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:13 pm wrote:Image

Eddie
Maybe you were already nervous. Maybe you lacked grit.

I see you. Running through the trees.

You're small. The trees are like...giants. Men are chasing you.

Ray
I'm right here.

Eddie
You step out the trees. You ain't that fast.

Now, son ... they kill you. They shoot you to pieces.


That's a chilling photo. I've never seen it before. It's sort of like that Damascus Sekhmet cult I was just reading about last week where some snoopy kids discovered a houseful of people staring out of every window at them next door to the manse.

Also, there's a woman in that photo! Seated at the table right in front of the podium.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Rory » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:40 pm

The man that pulls Ani aside and upstairs as her talks to her ( he says he could talk all day about the oil business)

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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby km artlu » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:11 am

"Also, there's a woman in that photo! Seated at the table right in front of the podium."

Or could that be a man in a kilt? Lord Soandso hangin' at the Grove?

I buy your dream interpretation Wombat. I fully expect Ray to die amid the redwoods in episode 8.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby BrandonD » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:05 pm

Luther Blissett » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:21 pm wrote:That's a chilling photo. I've never seen it before. It's sort of like that Damascus Sekhmet cult I was just reading about last week where some snoopy kids discovered a houseful of people staring out of every window at them next door to the manse.

Also, there's a woman in that photo! Seated at the table right in front of the podium.


Thank you for that link, what a strange story! Not sure that I buy all that she's saying, but it sure is creepy and interesting.
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Re: True Detective on HBO

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:31 pm

BrandonD » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:05 pm wrote:
Luther Blissett » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:21 pm wrote:That's a chilling photo. I've never seen it before. It's sort of like that Damascus Sekhmet cult I was just reading about last week where some snoopy kids discovered a houseful of people staring out of every window at them next door to the manse.

Also, there's a woman in that photo! Seated at the table right in front of the podium.


Thank you for that link, what a strange story! Not sure that I buy all that she's saying, but it sure is creepy and interesting.


If you google around you can find a lot of similar stories. Some sub 4chan group has a pretty incredible thread about it. Some stories are clearly 100% bogus but others must carry some degree of truth.
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