2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

[Lord Balto]

The entire ping series:



From Duncan Steel: http://www.duncansteel.com/

[Iamwhomiam]

If the Chinese report I posted was truthful and I believe it is, your chart above is erroneous in its omission. I see no sense to floating this news if it were inaccurate. I believe the plane has crashed into the ocean. In time we may learn the truth of the plane's disappearance, but considering all the known unknowns we constantly ponder, this may wind up being nothing more than another mystery with no provable reason.

I will refrain from guessing and will limit my posts to report accurately any news I come across.

Edited to add:

The modeled white ping ring is on target with the reported Chinese ping off Perth.

[Lord Balto]

If the Chinese report I posted was truthful and I believe it is, your chart above is erroneous in its omission.

Normally I don't like to do interlinear replies, but your post virtually begs for it.

"Omission" of what? And "truthful" is not at issue. Whether the Chinese report makes any sense is at issue. Given that there are many individuals in this world who are incapable of thinking for themselves, does it make sense that the ship shouldn't have stopped, even if their orders were to proceed to another location? And the signal only lasted for 90 seconds? What does that indicate? And it wasn't recorded? Why wouldn't they be recording?

I see no sense to floating this news if it were inaccurate.

That depends on why they would have floated inaccurate news. The Malaysians have been floating inaccurate news for weeks now. It seems to be the name of the game.

I believe the plane has crashed into the ocean. In time we may learn the truth of the plane's disappearance, but considering all the known unknowns we constantly ponder, this may wind up being nothing more than another mystery with no provable reason.

Not to be nasty or anything, but what you believe brings very little to the table other than your own prejudices. Despite the Malaysian government, serious arguments have been made for a northern rather than a southern route, and the only theoretical bases for a southern route involve suicide or a complex series of automated maneuvers.

I will refrain from guessing and will limit my posts to report accurately any news I come across.

The southern route is no less of a guess than anything else in the incident. And please, don't bother to expound upon "any news [you] come across." That might involve something other than accepting pronouncements from authoritarian sources at face value.

Edited to add:

The modeled white ping ring is on target with the reported Chinese ping off Perth.

So is Ashgabat Airport in Turkmenistan.

[Lord Balto]

This from a poster at PPRUNE:

Just watching that CCTV YouTube link.

She said that the ship detected the same signal on Friday for 15 minutes but were unsure because there were other ships in the vicinity. Then they heard it at 4:00pm Beijing time today for just 90s. Now if they didn't record today, did they record it yesterday? Something is amiss here. I'm afraid there seem to be no reports of this on Friday. I smell a sensationalist media release like their sat photos last month turned out to be. Was that XINHUA as well?

[Ben D]

Missing Malaysian Airways flight MH370 LIVE:
Chinese patrol ship detects 'pulse signal' during Indian Ocean search

The patrol ship has picked up a frequency being emitted at 37.5kHz, the same frequency as a black box device, according to Chinese news agency Xinhua.

Not according to Xinhua...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-04/05/c_126360141.htm

No confirmation if detected pulse signal linked to MH370: Chinese authorities

English.news.cn | 2014-04-05 22:34:25 | Editor: Mu Xuequan

BEIJING, April 5 (Xinhua) -- A pulse signal picked up by Chinese patrol ship Haixun 01 Saturday has not been confirmed as related to missing Malaysian passenger jet MH370, according to China Maritime Search and Rescue Center.

A black box detector deployed by the Haixun 01 picked up the signal with a frequency of 37.5kHz per second at around 25 degrees south latitude and 101 degrees east longtitude in southern Indian Ocean waters Saturday afternoon.

[Iamwhomiam]

Ben, All that says is that the ping heard has not been officially confirmed. It does not deny the report, only states that it has not been yet confirmed.

[Lord Balto]

Missing Malaysian Airways flight MH370 LIVE:
Chinese patrol ship detects 'pulse signal' during Indian Ocean search

The patrol ship has picked up a frequency being emitted at 37.5kHz, the same frequency as a black box device, according to Chinese news agency Xinhua.

Not according to Xinhua...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-04/05/c_126360141.htm

No confirmation if detected pulse signal linked to MH370: Chinese authorities

English.news.cn | 2014-04-05 22:34:25 | Editor: Mu Xuequan

BEIJING, April 5 (Xinhua) -- A pulse signal picked up by Chinese patrol ship Haixun 01 Saturday has not been confirmed as related to missing Malaysian passenger jet MH370, according to China Maritime Search and Rescue Center.

A black box detector deployed by the Haixun 01 picked up the signal with a frequency of 37.5kHz per second at around 25 degrees south latitude and 101 degrees east longtitude in southern Indian Ocean waters Saturday afternoon.

"kHz per second"? Just for the record, and despite these so-called reporters, a Hertz is one cycle per second, so 37.5 kHz is 37,500 cycles/second. No need for an additional "per second."

[Lord Balto]

Ben, All that says is that the ping heard has not been officially confirmed. It does not deny the report, only states that it has not been yet confirmed.

I should point out that, according to a pilot at PPRUNE, dolphins emit frequencies in that range.

[Iamwhomiam]

Lord Balto, I will remember your kind words to me, once I read some.

My beliefs are certainly as valid to me as yours are to you, as neither of us have any proof of anything at all to do with the plane's disappearance.

Your "omission" was not to recognize that the ping news I related lay on the white line, though all with eyes can see that it does, and that was your "error."

Simply put, where the Chinese reported the ping is a possible location for the airplanes black boxes. Not saying the plane's there or or isn't, just that it is a possibility based upon your information. (The dopler rings.)

"Omission" of what? And "truthful" is not at issue. Whether the Chinese report makes any sense is at issue

No, of course truthful reporting has no bearing on this story. That's why the plane could be anywhere along any one of the circular lines showing the dopler ping results. Anywhere. The unconfirmed reported ping happens to lie on one of those lines, the outter most one. Please tell me which news report released so far, other than the one announcing the plane's disappearance on March 8th, has made sense?

Given that there are many individuals in this world who are incapable of thinking for themselves, does it make sense that the ship shouldn't have stopped, even if their orders were to proceed to another location? And the signal only lasted for 90 seconds? What does that indicate? And it wasn't recorded? Why wouldn't they be recording?

All good questions to ask, but not of me. Next time you want to say I'm incapable of thinking for myself, don't beat around the bush- just spit it out.

Because no one had posted this news, I felt it important to relate. Just because it was news, not to have my judgment questioned for doing so.

I believe the plane has crashed into the ocean. In time we may learn the truth of the plane's disappearance, but considering all the known unknowns we constantly ponder, this may wind up being nothing more than another mystery with no provable reason.

Not to be nasty or anything, but what you believe brings very little to the table other than your own prejudices. Despite the Malaysian government, serious arguments have been made for a northern rather than a southern route, and the only theoretical bases for a southern route involve suicide or a complex series of automated maneuvers.

I will refrain from guessing and will limit my posts to report accurately any news I come across.

The southern route is no less of a guess than anything else in the incident. And please, don't bother to expound upon "any news [you] come across." That might involve something other than accepting pronouncements from authoritarian sources at face value.

I need to break this up a bit...

Not to be nasty or anything, but what you believe brings very little to the table other than your own prejudices

Doesn't this apply to all, including you?

The southern route is no less of a guess than anything else in the incident.

Of course it's a guess. all assumptions are at this point in time, guesses. Yours, too.

And please, don't bother to expound upon "any news [you] come across." That might involve something other than accepting pronouncements from authoritarian sources at face value.

I'll expound on any damned thing I feel like expressing, you pompous ass.

[demolished]

Howdy Demolished!

Off-topic aside: I've wondered for a long time about the issue of the alleged 911 hijackers and whether they knew of, and deliberately capitalized on, the war-games/exercises/drills of that day. But unlike the author of the article, Matthias Chang, the only "experts" I know of who have suggested this, outside of the skeptics of the msm's 911 conspiracy theory (aka "Truthers"), was the person who inquired of a witness during the commission hearings ... something to the effect of "did these drills interfere with the official response to the hijacked planes" to which the witness said "no they did not." Wish I had the names and audio/video clip of that handy.

The skeptics of 911 skeptics view on this issue: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/War_Games

http://futurefastforward.com/images/stories/featurearticles/MH_370_Coincidence.pdf

MH 370 – A Sinister Tragedy In the Fog of
Coincidence?
Some strange parallels with catastrophic consequences
By Matthias Chang – Future FastForward
April 1st, 2014
<snip>
The experts have declared that the so-called hijackers knew of the
military exercise on September 11, 2001 and exploited the situation to their
advantage.

More likely, as Webster Trapley and others have suggested, the exercises were used to plan the attacks, divert suspicion away from the planning of those attacks, and to get possible interfering resources out of the contiguous United States and up to Canada and Alaska. So, did the "hijackers" use the exercises? Not the mythical Arabian attackers, but certainly the real perpetrators.

old saying:

Those who know, don't talk
Those who talk, don't know


new saying:

Those who hijack, don't fly ...
Those who fly, never hijack !

[82_28]

Balto's doing the same thing to my various comments. I think it's funny actually. If he wants to "spar", I'm up. I would prefer not to though. I just try to ignore the condescension and read what he is actually bringing to the discussion. If only he would ignore his own impulse to to be condescending that would be great! Thanks, Lord Balto!

[Iamwhomiam]

Balto's doing the same thing to my various comments. I think it's funny actually. If he wants to "spar", I'm up. I would prefer not to though. I just try to ignore the condescension and read what he is actually bringing to the discussion. If only he would ignore his own impulse to to be condescending that would be great! Thanks, Lord Balto!

Yes, It would be nice to be able to post breaking news without the sardonic remarks. I'm waiting for his response to my questions.

Yes Balto, whales too, can broadcast at 37.5mhz. Maybe the so-called "pilot" you learned this from listened to the same broadcast I learned this information from. Seems a whole bunch of countries now looking into the west of Perth pings.

LB wrote,
Whether the Chinese report makes any sense is at issue. Given that there are many individuals in this world who are incapable of thinking for themselves.

Must be a whole bunch of military commanders incapable of thinking for themselves, sending out all those ships to confirm or discount the reported pings.

Searchers Investigating Underwater Signals in Hunt for Jet

By KIRK SEMPLEAPRIL 6, 2014

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — The Australian authorities coordinating the multinational hunt for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane in the southern Indian Ocean said Sunday that they were investigating three reports by search ships that underwater sensors had picked up signals possibly from the plane’s data and voice recorders.

Two of the signals had been detected by a Chinese ship, Haixun 01 — the first on Friday and the second on Saturday about 1.2 miles away, officials said. The third signal was reported by an Australian ship, the Ocean Shield, in a different location.

Angus Houston, the Australian chief coordinator of the Indian Ocean search, said that officials were treating all three “acoustic events” seriously.

“We don’t leave it until we have exhausted all avenues of investigation,” Mr. Houston, chief of the Joint Agency Coordination Center, an Australian government group, said in a news conference on Sunday in Perth.

But while he called the reports “encouraging,” he urged caution, saying there was no confirmation yet that the signals were related to the missing aircraft — a sentiment also expressed by Malaysian and Chinese officials.

This Chinese patrol ship, the Haixun 01, reported Saturday that an underwater sensor had picked up a promising signal. Credit China News Service

False alerts can be triggered by sea life, including whales, or by noise from ships. Australian officials reported last week that an alert sounded on a British Royal Navy vessel, H.M.S. Echo, which is equipped with black box detection equipment, but the signal turned out to be false.

“At the moment, the data we have does not provide a means of verification,” Mr. Houston said. “We have to do further investigation on the site itself, and that is why all of these resources are being moved to that particular location.”

He warned that, like the visual search for debris, the undersea search could also come up with leads that turned out to be false.

“In the days, weeks and possibly months ahead, there may be leads, such as the one I am reporting to you this morning, on a regular basis,” he said at the news conference.

H.M.S. Echo was dispatched to the location of Haixun 01’s discovery on Sunday to “discount or confirm” the detections, Mr. Houston said. Ocean Shield would follow once it had thoroughly investigated the sonic occurrence it experienced Sunday, Mr. Houston said. H.M.S. Echo was about 14 hours from Haixun 01 and Ocean Shield was more than 24 hours away, he said during the midday news conference.

Meanwhile, a broader search for the missing plane resumed on Sunday with 12 planes and 10 other ships searching three zones about 1,200 miles northwest of Perth.

The signals reported by the Haixun 01 appeared to be south of two of those areas and east of the third. According to coordinates provided by Xinhua, which had a reporter aboard the Haixun 01, the vessel was searching about 1,020 miles northwest of Perth on Saturday. It was unclear late Sunday where Ocean Shield was located when it heard the underwater sound.

The Chinese signals were first reported by Xinhua, China’s state-run news agency, late Saturday. The agency said that crew aboard Haixun 01 had picked up a “pulse signal” of the same frequency as one used by locator devices on planes.

The devices, which use a frequency of 37.5 kilohertz, are attached to aircraft data and voice recorders, commonly known as black boxes, which are crucial to determining the causes of airplane crashes.

Despite the uncertainties, the reports from the two ships generated worldwide excitement about the possibility that after four weeks of fruitless searching, officials might finally be zeroing in on concrete evidence of the plane and its fate.

Since Flight 370 veered off its scheduled path from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing on March 8 and dropped off civilian and military radar, no trace of the plane has been found. In the past week, searchers have focused on several vast areas of the Indian Ocean hundreds of miles from Australia. A flotilla of ships from various nations has combed the water and aircraft have conducted daily reconnaissance flights.

Crews aboard the planes and ships have spotted floating items nearly every day, but so far they all have turned out to be fishing equipment and other detritus not related to Flight 370.

The Haixun 01 is one of at least seven Chinese vessels now searching in the Indian Ocean, Australian officials said.

Mr. Houston said the first of the two signals Haixun 01 heard occurred late Friday. “It was just a quick acoustic detection and then nothing,” he said. The Chinese ship stayed in the area and picked up another signal on Saturday afternoon.

The ocean in that area of the search zone is nearly three miles deep, Mr. Houston said.

But it appeared that the Australian search authorities learned about at least one of the Chinese signals through the Chinese news media. Asked Sunday whether he was disappointed not to be informed directly, Mr. Houston said: “With journalists traveling on ships and airplanes, information will come out which basically has to be responded to.” He added: “I accept the reality of that.”

But he dismissed suggestions that the Chinese were not working in close coordination with others in the search force.

“I am very satisfied with the consulation, the coordination, we are building with our Chinese friends,” he said. “China is sharing everything that is relevant to this search — everything.”

News of Haixun 01’s underwater sensor technology came as a surprise to some observers. In recent weeks, the search authorities have discussed the presence of sensor technology on the British and Australian vessels but apparently had never mentioned the Haixun 01’s underwater detection capabilities.

Photos accompanying Chinese state news reports showed crew members of Haixun 01 conducting their tests from a rigid-hulled inflatable boat using a hand-held listening device manufactured by Teledyne Benthos, a division of Teledyne Marine Systems, a company based in North Falmouth, Mass.

Thomas Altshuler, the vice president and general manager for Teledyne Marine Systems, said the device pictured in the photographs is a DPL-275 diver pinger locator and is intended for use in relatively shallow water. He said it is mainly intended for use by a diver, though it can also be used mounted to a pole or a boom and held over the side of a boat, the method apparently used by the crew of the Haixun 01.

But he was very cautious about whether the device could be used to successfully detect a pinger that was thousands of feet below the surface.

“It is possible to detect something at that depth with a hand-held device, but I don’t know how probable,” Mr. Altshuler said. “You would need to be close. You are not going to be 3,000 meters above it and two miles away.”

The Haixun 01 went into service last year, when the Shanghai Maritime Safety Administration said it was the biggest of China’s civilian maritime administration vessels, with the most advanced equipment.

Black boxes are equipped to emit a signal that can be detected by a receiver under the surface of the water. The maximum detection range is typically about one to two miles, though the range depends on various factors, including the sensitivity of the receiver, sea conditions, water temperature and whether the black boxes are buried by debris.

Much hope is riding on the effectiveness of the underwater listening devices. The batteries of the black boxes, with a life span of about a month, are expected to expire as early as this week. When they die, so will the pinger signal, leaving the boxes to rest mutely on the seabed, making their discovery far more difficult.

Also on Saturday, Hishammuddin Hussein, Malaysia’s defense minister and acting transportation minister, said an international investigative committee, led by an independent investigator, would be created to investigate the mystery of Flight 370’s disappearance. The group will study a range of possible contributing factors, including the plane’s airworthiness and maintenance and “medical and human factors,” he said.

The Malaysian government has been criticized for its handling of the case, and has revealed little about the progress of its own police investigation into the plane’s disappearance. But officials said the appointment of the new committee was not a response to that criticism or a reflection of limited gains in the criminal inquiry, but rather a standard step in an international accident investigation.

Chris Buckley contributed reporting from Hong Kong; Nicola Clark from Paris; Michelle Innis from Sydney, Australia; and Matthew L. Wald from Washington.

[slimmouse]

Well as we were officially informed about 2 (?) weeks ago now, bad weather halted one search for some reported wreckage, before such nunsense was discovered to be one of those floating plastic islands that litter our oceans. Apologies for the digression.

I mention this in passing because in the "sunday wire" podcast I linked to ealier in this thread, the host Patrick Henningson descrbed that particular episode as a "fishing trip" that us proles were being allowed to indulge ourselves in.

I found that a very fitting analogy.

Thanks to demolished for the link also. If those war games were taking place at the same time as this plane miraculously dissapeared, then theres some woo factor for consideration there, sans doubte

[Lord Balto]

Just for the record, I have been ignoring 82_28 since he made some bizarre and quite demeaning claim that my suggestions about using genealogical techniques to find an adopted half-brother were going to "ruin everything." Generally speaking, there appears to be a group of posters on this forum whose egos are so inflated and yet so fragile that they cannot abide anyone suggesting that their oh-so-wonderful conclusions need not be taken very seriously. And as for the folks who think that cutting and pasting long articles--in violation of the copyright laws of most of the civilized world--in place of simply posting a link somehow adds to the discussion, I would ask, Is it so hard to boil down the salient points of the article in one's own words and to give one's own thoughts on the matter?

Furthermore, if I don't reply to a particular poster, it may just be that there is no point in doing so. This goes for the folks who haven't yet figured out that the supposited cell phone on Diego Garcia story is an obvious hoax, as well as everyone who thinks that the continuing pronouncements of the mainstream media are worth even paying attention to.

And finally, I really have no problem with the southern Indian Ocean theory as long as it is understood that it is just a theory and is supported by little or no hard evidence beyond a series of hypotheses, assumptions, back of the envelope calculations, sightings of islands of plastic bottles, and general confusion on the part of the interested parties. If I have pointed out that there is a reasonable explanation for all of the "evidence" put forward for a southern route, it is because I am attempting to raise the awareness of those who have lost track of the fact. It's called "objectivity," and it is often taken by those who lack it, as it has been here, as an attack on their positions. I assure you, it is not an attack. It is my sometimes flawed attempt to be rational and objective and not to be sucked in to the mainstream puppet show.

[82_28]

^^^^^LOL. You have this exactly wrong and your passive aggressiveness is funny. You're saying you want it "both ways". You want to be a dick and yet be a victim. My advice to 4B and offer to lend help were soundly ridiculed by yourself. That you do not like me and I am under ignore or whatever little graphically rendered pixel box you clicked on doesn't mean that you were not the personhood who did indeed start it. You did expect a response did you not? You got one. Not the one you liked, approved of or whatever. I also said that I did read your comments, yet read through the condescension to what you seem to actually give a fuck about. Balto, you seem to be averse to free-wheeling speculation when it is not under your terms. This is a noble trait and you should keep it up. We all need a reminder here and again of what a dick is. You will be warmly rewarded by not being ignored. Good going. You just don't like being called out -- no one does. Thus I am not calling you out. Just saying you have me on ignore and I do not engage with the same with you. Says a little something, does it not?

Accept differences of opinion and don't be a dick. That's about it. Thanks, Lord Balto!