2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:27 pm

Lord Balto » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:33 pm wrote:Just for the record, I have been ignoring 82_28 since he made some bizarre and quite demeaning claim that my suggestions about using genealogical techniques to find an adopted half-brother were going to "ruin everything." Generally speaking, there appears to be a group of posters on this forum whose egos are so inflated and yet so fragile that they cannot abide anyone suggesting that their oh-so-wonderful conclusions need not be taken very seriously.


I think that RI is characterized by being full of people like that, but that some of us include ourselves in that characterisation. Some do not, because they (hilariously to me) think they are not.


Lord Balto » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:33 pm wrote:And as for the folks who think that cutting and pasting long articles--in violation of the copyright laws of most of the civilized world--in place of simply posting a link somehow adds to the discussion, I would ask, Is it so hard to boil down the salient points of the article in one's own words and to give one's own thoughts on the matter?


This would be worth discussing in a 'Best Practice' thread...


Lord Balto » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:33 pm wrote:Furthermore, if I don't reply to a particular poster, it may just be that there is no point in doing so. This goes for the folks who haven't yet figured out that the supposited cell phone on Diego Garcia story is an obvious hoax, as well as everyone who thinks that the continuing pronouncements of the mainstream media are worth even paying attention to.


Obvious to whom? Obviously, how?
The only self-styled 'debunking' I have seen of this has consisted of people saying 'this is OBVIOUSLY a hoax'. Which is surely just Randi-esque B.S.

I am happy to be proved wrong, but have not seen anything which has.


Lord Balto » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:33 pm wrote:And finally, I really have no problem with the southern Indian Ocean theory as long as it is understood that it is just a theory and is supported by little or no hard evidence beyond a series of hypotheses, assumptions, back of the envelope calculations, sightings of islands of plastic bottles, and general confusion on the part of the interested parties. If I have pointed out that there is a reasonable explanation for all of the "evidence" put forward for a southern route, it is because I am attempting to raise the awareness of those who have lost track of the fact.

It's called "objectivity," and it is often taken by those who lack it, as it has been here, as an attack on their positions. I assure you, it is not an attack. It is my sometimes flawed attempt to be rational and objective and not to be sucked in to the mainstream puppet show.


We have very little access to the raw information flows here - how is one going to be 'objective' in these circumstances? There is a rich, creamy nasi lemak of geo-politics / SE Asia culture / Deep State / hi-tech / incompetence / BS and who knows what else.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:03 pm

All I have to say about my pasting of the NY Times article I've said. I will not regret sharing what seems to have been breaking news. By the way, Balto, where was it you first learned of the missing plane?

Yes, trustworthy sources are difficult to come by, but don't think for a moment none of the pilots posting on your beloved pilots blog are military actively working.

Seriously, you're suffering from your own confirmation bias. It happens to all of us from time to time. You might want to examine your motives for proclaiming others are wrong, especially in this strange incident, or that anything being reported by any source is false or wrong.

Talk about egos!

Nice to see you admit you know nothing more than any of us about the missing airliner.
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Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Nordic » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:08 pm

I like the practice of cutting and pasting insofar as our own little club at RI goes because

A. Sometimes articles disappear from the Internet and links go bad.

B. sometimes we are in a position (using a mobile, having a bad connection, not wanting to click on particular sites) where we really just want the content of what is at the link and really don't want to click on it.

C. Archival purposes, related to A.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby elfismiles » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:12 am

FLASHBACK MONDAYS...

John Judge - Korea 007 Secrets 1988

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXIszXJ45A
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Laodicean » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:03 pm

Image



Lord Balto your big ego is so cute. :tongout
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:24 am

Need I really explain these photographs?

Image

Image

Sometimes adding one's words to a breaking news article is unnecessary, as anything more would be one's personal conjecture and could serve to detract or distract from its content.

Fair use for educational purposes is not copyright infringement. However,
http://www.timesunion.com/news/world/article/More-underwater-pings-heard-in-hunt-for-plane-5384123.php

Now before I forever let go of my hurt feelings from having been treated so rudely and without the courtesy of being addressed directly by you, Lord Balto, you certainly are capable of verbal cruelty.

Didn't your mother ever teach you it wasn't kind to tell people with Alzheimer's they're incapable of thinking for themselves?

Be nice!
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Ben D » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:49 am

Iamwhomiam » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:23 am wrote:Ben, All that says is that the ping heard has not been officially confirmed. It does not deny the report, only states that it has not been yet confirmed.

Quite right Iamwhomiam, I noticed it immediately after I read my post after submission, and immediately deleted it hoping no one saw it...I swear it was gone...I just now went back and lo...there it is again...how embarrassing...gremlins? :oops:
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:13 pm

No harm done, Ben, no harm done.

But the gremlins do give cause for concern.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:15 am

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... r-germany/
Jet flight ‘vanished’ for 30 mins over Germany
Written by Mihir Mishra | New Delhi | April 10, 2014 5:01 am

Five days after Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 disappeared mysteriously last month, a Jet Airways flight from London to Mumbai was reported missing for more than 30 minutes while flying over Germany, causing German aviation authorities to panic and subsequently complain to the Indian Directorate General of Civil Aviation.

Documents accessed by The Indian Express show that the DGCA has launched an inquiry after its German counterpart complained that on March 13, pilots of flight 9W117 lost communication with air traffic authorities in Germany and did not respond through much of the duration of the flight over German airspace.

The flight was a Boeing 777-300ER jet with the registration VT-JEG. It was manufactured in 2007 and had a seating capacity of 312 passengers.

“The communication with the flight was lost for around 30 minutes over German airspace. German authorities panicked as it came close on the heels of the incident involving MH370,” an Indian official said.

Acting on the German complaint, a preliminary investigation body (PIB) of the DGCA convened a meeting in Mumbai on March 25 to discuss the issue.

A Jet Airways spokesperson confirmed the incident when reached by The Indian Express.

“The Jet Airways flight 9W 117 was between London and Mumbai where communication was lost over German airspace as the crew overlooked increasing the speaker volume after removing the headphones. This was investigated by the regulator and the pilots were off flying for two weeks. The report has been sent to the German authorities for closure.”

A DGCA official involved in the inquiry corroborated this version and said the pilots, had in their official deposition submitted that both of them had “removed their headphones”, resulting in a break in communication.

However, the incident is being construed as “serious” since the aircraft was out of contact for a full 30 minutes, just days after the Malaysian airliner incident.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:19 pm

Funny now that the robotic undersea search has begun, all interest in the missing plane vanishes.
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@ARTxDEALER

Postby IanEye » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:45 pm

the mystical number 777 rears its ugly head again.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Ben D » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Don't know about 777, but in the Confucius tradition...if she was trying to fly that model airplane upside down, she was bound to have crack up!
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:37 pm

Benjamin! Go to your room and meditate upon your urges!
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Ben D » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:54 pm

Yes Iam...sorry for the lapse, back to detachment...
-----------------------
Dang...what continued bad luck..of all the places the plane is suspected to have come down, it turns out it is too deep for the submersible... :sarcasm

Malaysia Jet Search Area Too Deep for Submarine

Associated Press | Apr 15, 2014 | by Margie Mason

PERTH, Australia — The search area for the missing Malaysian jet has proved too deep for a robotic submarine which was hauled back to the surface of the Indian Ocean less than half way through its first seabed hunt for wreckage and the all-important black boxes, authorities said on Tuesday.

Search crews sent the Bluefin 21 deep into the Indian Ocean on Monday to begin scouring the seabed for the missing Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 after failing for six days to detect any signals believed to be from its black boxes.

But after only six hours of its planned 16-hour mission on the sea bed, the autonomous underwater vehicle exceeded its maximum depth limit of 4,500 meters (15,000 feet) and its built-in safety feature returned it to the surface, the search coordination center said in a statement on Tuesday.

What if anything it might have discovered during the six-hour search was still being analyzed, it added.
The Bluefin 21 will resume the search Tuesday when weather conditions permit, it said.

Search authorities knew that the primary wreckage from Flight MH370 was likely lying at the limit of the Bluefin's dive capabilities. Deeper diving submersibles have been evaluated, but none is yet available in the search area.


Dang...that 777 triggered me again!
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby a11235813 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:57 pm

From the husband of an MH370 passenger (bolding mine):

The unbearable heaviness of an information void

A plane disappeared from the skies, and yet there have been no public expressions of outrage, says the husband of Chandrika Sharma, a passenger

Casual conversations have a way of suddenly turning serious, sometimes even fiery. There was one such conversation a couple of nights ago and the embers of that outburst still glow low. I am hoping that words will aid in putting it down. If this lights a fire, then we will burn for the same thing — to shed light. This is neither a guilt inducing trip nor a rant.

When MH370 vanished, all I could do was wait. I thought it would be a matter of time before we got the facts, the missing links, and then the whole story. In Chennai, far from the grieving families, it seemed possible to stay calm, place one’s trust in the relevant authorities to do whatever was necessary by way of search, rescue and investigation, and contemplate choices that lay ahead. As the weeks went by, loss seemed easier to deal with, however painful, than the black hole of an information void: intolerable and an affront to human intelligence and capacity. The former felt real; the latter somewhat forced — a consequence of motivated withholding, a sleight of hand, a cloak of concealment, and in part plain incompetence.

Nothing learnt

As I look back over the 40 days since the day MH370 sent out its last pings, I sense fatigue. It is as if all that had to be discussed has been done repeatedly and all the consolation that had to be offered has been exhausted. Yet, we are no closer to knowing what really happened to MH370, and where it is. We are nowhere near knowing how to prevent the occurrence of such a tragedy when another plane takes to the skies. What are my concerns, beyond the personal and familial, of the immediate future? It would appear that MH370 is just about the passengers and their affected families, friends and colleagues. Many of the newspapers have largely relegated it to some corner — no editorial, no opinion leads, no commentary...nothing. It is the same case with television.

One wonders why. Is it the numbers — ‘just’ 5 Indians? Is it because this did not happen in our backyard? Because there are no conspiracy angles? Nothing to bludge on the government of the day? Isn’t it strange that Indians claim great strides in satellite technology, space missions, oceanography and aviation, and yet we haven’t heard any luminary from these fields make a public statement or raise questions in the media? Isn’t it also strange that India does not exercise its rights under international conventions as a signatory to be represented in investigation processes?

Similarly, we are led to believe that it is business as usual. We haven’t heard from any airline of a review of aircraft and passenger handling processes, from ground authorities on what precautions have been introduced or reinforced, and other relevant authorities on what they are doing to ensure safety in the skies. Oddly, I haven’t received calls from anyone asking for information that might reassure a traveller. With the holiday season approaching, doesn’t it worry anyone that his/her parents, children, spouse, other family members or friends and colleagues may be at risk when they fly to various destinations?

One may argue that air safety is an issue for the rich or the middle class; that it is not a bread-and-butter issue of the marginalised and the poor. But one may also argue that the media has largely been about the ‘haves’ and so should have engaged with the issue. But this hasn’t happened. Similarly, if one believes in self-interest, then it should have been a matter of concern for those who can afford air travel — MH370 would at least be a rallying symbol for inquiry and demands for assurance. This hasn’t happened either. There have been no panel discussions, no scholarly inputs or public expressions of curiosity, indignation or outrage.

So what does one make of the silence and lack of engagement? Apathy? Indifference? A belief that as individuals our voices don’t count? Is it that we have turned active participants in the electoral process this time and everything else is a distraction? Or is it that enough sound bites have been aired...we are fatigued, and ready for the next spectacle?

Early enough in the unending wait for MH370, it became clear that this was not just a private matter between the family, the passenger, and the carrier. Governments got involved. There are issues of national security, country and corporate preparedness and liability, and most importantly, of air safety and security. It seems, however, that in the minds of the people, there are limited groups that have legitimacy to access information, to ask searching questions and pursue the truth: the families of the passengers, the media and governments.

The media tires rather quickly and crises, celebrities and crimes emerge with unfailing regularity to feed the morbid need for ‘breaking news.’ Our government is in caretaker mode — mute and impotent. The affected families have been left to understand technology, ask questions and search for answers themselves in routine press conferences. The intelligentsia perhaps hasn’t seen a role for itself in the aftermath of the plane’s disappearance, except to hold forth on myriad aspects of the electorate.

Getting involved

What will move us to get involved? Some people track developments; some suggest what the families of the passengers should consider doing; some others don’t inform themselves, and ask questions about developments that are weeks old. In other words, most have remained invisible spectators or well-wishers. Close friends and family have offered their time and company to tide over difficult times. However, I know there are many out there who are competent to scrutinise the claims of INMARSAT and confront the necessary challenges in the quest for truth. There are defence analysts who should be able to weigh in on the cursory self-certification by countries in the Northern Corridor. These are but two examples from many that one can bring up. Where are they?

The plane’s disappearance is personal, but it goes beyond that. Finding the truth will require more than persistence by the affected families; it will require a marathon effort on the part of the public to bring our talents to the fore, speak out loudly to those charged with the task of investigation, and demand that the aviation sector be safe and accountable. Prayer is not about seeking divine intervention but a call to ourselves to engage with whatever we believe is meaningful. All lives are precious.

(K. S. Narendran is the husband of Chandrika Sharma, one of the passengers of MH370.)
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