2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:57 pm

"It wasn't the separatists, although Russia will try to blame them, or blame the Ukrainians," Peters said. "The Russians have not given the separatists complex, high-altitude air-defense systems. If this airliner was flying at 34,000 feet or any altitude close to that, it was shot down by Russian military air-defense systems perched on the Ukrainian border."
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Harvey » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:57 pm

Some thoughts:

Because it's the same model aircraft, airport and airline as MH370, do we think the legitimate questions of the conspiracy minded might become diluted by woo?

If the finger points to Russia, who benefits? Presumably not Russia. Aren't they actually quite good at not shooting things down too?

Ukraine appears to have past form shooting down passenger jets.

Everyone seems rather well prepared, scriptwise?

Just thoughts.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Zombie Glenn Beck » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:14 pm

One reason Russia could have for this is to change the narrative of their lose in Ukraine. Ukraine as it stands is a horrible failure, one that Putin is already taking flak for from his base of supporters. This attack, and the conspiracy theorizing that we all know is going to happen, will change the narrative. Now its not just the story of Putins incompetence, its the story of Putin being the victim of the wests underhanded tricks. More importantly, as it stands the Ukraine is a warning against doomed foreign ventures by Russia, after the narrative for this attack take shape Ukraine could instead become a symbol of western evil used to rile people up for more revanchism.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Harvey » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:25 pm

Zombie Glenn Beck » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:14 pm wrote:as it stands the Ukraine is a warning against doomed foreign ventures by Russia, after the narrative for this attack take shape Ukraine could instead become a symbol of western evil


It wasn't bloody Ukraine, either.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:29 pm

.

Eastern Ukraine is a warzone with the Kiev military engaged in aerial bombardments as well as RPGs and missiles flying from all sides. I can't believe anyone was still passing passenger planes above that territory, but apparently everyone was! Why, to keep up appearances?

It's near certain that either the Kiev military or the Donetsk forces shot the Malaysian plane down by mistake. Obviously there is no imaginable reason for the Russian military to ever contemplate doing so, and that is an insane idea! Or rather, just the usual bloodthirsty war-mongering from the McCain-neocon faction. (I noticed it was echoed right away by U.S.-based "Syrian revolutionary" spokespeople on social media, so there's definitely a line there. I've also seen Israeli defenders seriously blame the "Hamas violence" on Russia, since Putin is the Hitler du Jour, although he in turn has also been backing Israel.)

There is also no particular reason so far to believe in a Western, U.S., globalist or Demon Capstone "Them" behind this incident, as some people here are conditioned to think predictably. That this can be an "Archduke Ferdinand" moment is obvious, and it's only a couple of weeks after the 100th anniversary.

Yesterday the BRICS announced their initiative to create an alternative to World Bank and IMF. The U.S. news was instead full of an inexplicable escalation in the sanctions against the Russian government for its supposed material support of the Donetsk Republic. This obviously makes for interesting timing.

In recent weeks Moscow has clearly sought to defuse the Ukraine crisis and made no major moves in support of the eastern Ukrainian uprising, despite the murderous offensives by a Kiev government that still includes neo-Nazis in its cabinet. To say so is not to "support Putin" but merely to understand that Moscow acts according to the accustomed rules of power and realpolitik. Russia's interest is clearly not to contribute to the bloodbath or to try to absorb a potentially intractable ethnic civil war within its own territory but to see the situation stabilized and the payments on its gas bills resumed.

The U.S. demand that the Ukraine-Russia border be altogether sealed, is impossible for Russia both politically and physically. As long as Kiev pursues a violent solution to the reluctance of Russian Ukrainians to accept the new status quo, Russians in turn will support their ethnic brethren without need of any orders from Moscow. Meanwhile it's been admitted officially that CIA and FBI both are assisting the Yatsenyuk government in its attacks on the ethnic Russian areas, and very likely that Western mercenaries are mixed in with the forces conducting the offensive, which are largely irregulars recruited from the ranks of Svoboda and Right Sector. There have been cases of disobedience and desertion among Ukrainian army regulars, unsurprisingly.

This is an incredibly dangerous moment for the U.S. to be escalating the rhetoric or the material support, and the neocons and other warmongers with their instant accusations that Russia directly downed the plane (why the fuck?!) are literally trying to start a new World War with Russia.

PS - Come on, you really think there is a Them who do this just to bother conspiracy theorists? Like there's a special need to do that?

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby ShinShinKid » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:08 pm

For those with the gumption...check out the Facebook posts of the pro-russian militant's...they bragged about shooting this thing down...then quickly deleted their post...No conspiracy, just drunk russians with too much firepower on their hands. you can watch their videos on utube all day with their anti-aircraft guns, artillery, mortars...anything. long live the unborn conspiratards!
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:14 pm

JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:29 pm wrote:.
Why, to keep up appearances?


Probably just spreadsheet-level concerns about fuel costs, no?

Anyone who's seen Fight Club knows the formula for pricing the lives of customers...
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:26 pm

"It wasn't the separatists, although Russia will try to blame them, or blame the Ukrainians," Peters said. "The Russians have not given the separatists complex, high-altitude air-defense systems. If this airliner was flying at 34,000 feet or any altitude close to that, it was shot down by Russian military air-defense systems perched on the Ukrainian border."


Ralph Peters, stoking the next war as usual.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby ShinShinKid » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:27 pm

Two words: crisis actors...there's a stage door here somewhere, i just have to find it. Wait, that's like thirteen words.
Well, I've been reading more and more about those corporate life insurance policies that are being taken out and cashed in on without anybody knowing...why is anyone still flying anyways, hasn't modern aircraft been shown to totally destroy our air?
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:42 pm

ShinShinKid » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:08 pm wrote:For those with the gumption...check out the Facebook posts of the pro-russian militant's...they bragged about shooting this thing down...then quickly deleted their post...No conspiracy, just drunk russians with too much firepower on their hands. you can watch their videos on utube all day with their anti-aircraft guns, artillery, mortars...anything. long live the unborn conspiratards!


Sure, sure, on the coming proliferation of theories, but why do you have to act like a born tard? How does one "check out" these FB posts that were "quickly deleted"? Sounds like you didn't! Do you read Russian? Did you see these posts? If so, why no link, either to said "drunk russian" posts, or to an archive thereof? In short, where did you hear about this? Did you get it in a mass e-mail this morning from Langley, or Hollywood, or Kiev, via Nigeria?

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 82_28 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:05 pm

Keep your eyes on what you are intended to believe. Not what happened. It doesn't just fall out of thin air. 8bit is echoing my exact thoughts. This was done for multiple of reasons, one of them being that they know we are here and thus lends credence to the "CC". Here's the deal: they are going to harp on this for at least a month -- for a purpose. This was designed, you can tell by all the experts and shit lined up within three hours of this. All in their studios with some global art behind them dictating they are the world leaders in news or something. Did some cab driver roll down to pick up the dude to proffer his expert opinion at the exact time every single person in the USofA was just gettin' around?

They timed this shit precisely with daytime in both places. Setting sun in the Ukraine and Rising sun in the west for most impact.

Stefano, I love you, but I watched the coverage this morning. Amazing amount of duplicity, just by, just by, media coverage alone.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:28 pm

Just as Israel launches a full on ground invasion into Gaza and is shelling hospitals and beaches. I wonder how weapons manufacturers feel knowing they're perpetuating all this evil?

JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:29 pm wrote:.

Eastern Ukraine is a warzone with the Kiev military engaged in aerial bombardments as well as RPGs and missiles flying from all sides. I can't believe anyone was still passing passenger planes above that territory, but apparently everyone was! Why, to keep up appearances?

It's near certain that either the Kiev military or the Donetsk forces shot the Malaysian plane down by mistake. Obviously there is no imaginable reason for the Russian military to ever contemplate doing so, and that is an insane idea! Or rather, just the usual bloodthirsty war-mongering from the McCain-neocon faction. (I noticed it was echoed right away by U.S.-based "Syrian revolutionary" spokespeople on social media, so there's definitely a line there. I've also seen Israeli defenders seriously blame the "Hamas violence" on Russia, since Putin is the Hitler du Jour, although he in turn has also been backing Israel.)

There is also no particular reason so far to believe in a Western, U.S., globalist or Demon Capstone "Them" behind this incident, as some people here are conditioned to think predictably. That this can be an "Archduke Ferdinand" moment is obvious, and it's only a couple of weeks after the 100th anniversary.

Yesterday the BRICS announced their initiative to create an alternative to World Bank and IMF. The U.S. news was instead full of an inexplicable escalation in the sanctions against the Russian government for its supposed material support of the Donetsk Republic. This obviously makes for interesting timing.

In recent weeks Moscow has clearly sought to defuse the Ukraine crisis and made no major moves in support of the eastern Ukrainian uprising, despite the murderous offensives by a Kiev government that still includes neo-Nazis in its cabinet. To say so is not to "support Putin" but merely to understand that Moscow acts according to the accustomed rules of power and realpolitik. Russia's interest is clearly not to contribute to the bloodbath or to try to absorb a potentially intractable ethnic civil war within its own territory but to see the situation stabilized and the payments on its gas bills resumed.

The U.S. demand that the Ukraine-Russia border be altogether sealed, is impossible for Russia both politically and physically. As long as Kiev pursues a violent solution to the reluctance of Russian Ukrainians to accept the new status quo, Russians in turn will support their ethnic brethren without need of any orders from Moscow. Meanwhile it's been admitted officially that CIA and FBI both are assisting the Yatsenyuk government in its attacks on the ethnic Russian areas, and very likely that Western mercenaries are mixed in with the forces conducting the offensive, which are largely irregulars recruited from the ranks of Svoboda and Right Sector. There have been cases of disobedience and desertion among Ukrainian army regulars, unsurprisingly.

This is an incredibly dangerous moment for the U.S. to be escalating the rhetoric or the material support, and the neocons and other warmongers with their instant accusations that Russia directly downed the plane (why the fuck?!) are literally trying to start a new World War with Russia.

PS - Come on, you really think there is a Them who do this just to bother conspiracy theorists? Like there's a special need to do that?

.


Perfect read on the topic. Both Democrats and the usual Mccain-Lindsay neocon contingent were quick to blame Russia. People forget a lot of planes have been getting shot down or mysteriously crashing in that very area, again because of the hostilities in that border region. I'm seeing some people float the idea Russia did it to make it look like they did it, but by someone else. Reverse false flag?
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:33 pm

82_28 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:05 pm wrote:Keep your eyes on what you are intended to believe. Not what happened. It doesn't just fall out of thin air. 8bit is echoing my exact thoughts. This was done for multiple of reasons, one of them being that they know we are here and thus lends credence to the "CC". Here's the deal: they are going to harp on this for at least a month -- for a purpose. This was designed, you can tell by all the experts and shit lined up within three hours of this. All in their studios with some global art behind them dictating they are the world leaders in news or something. Did some cab driver roll down to pick up the dude to proffer his expert opinion at the exact time every single person in the USofA was just gettin' around?

They timed this shit precisely with daytime in both places. Setting sun in the Ukraine and Rising sun in the west for most impact.

Stefano, I love you, but I watched the coverage this morning. Amazing amount of duplicity, just by, just by, media coverage alone.



Yes but I also agree with Riddler regarding how planes are getting shot down routinely in that conflict as of late. The Russian obsessed Mccain and company were very quick to point fingers and demand "hell to pay", even though I don't see why Russia would intentionally shoot down this plane. Still, the sync is pretty strong..."Malaysia 777" was something we heard all day long for nearly two months...and it just happens to be that plane. It is...pretty weird. If it's a coincidence.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:50 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:14 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:29 pm wrote:.
Why, to keep up appearances?


Probably just spreadsheet-level concerns about fuel costs, no?

Anyone who's seen Fight Club knows the formula for pricing the lives of customers...


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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby ShinShinKid » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:02 pm

I missed the mass coverage, I listened to the radio, I listened to NPR, then the other end of the dial for a bit.
.I don't read russian, I don't read ukraine, either. I have read what looks like a FB post from at least one leader(translated, of course), then a "retweet" of a link to said fb post from another. Google Igor Strelkov, or
http://t.co/TuSTDOF5LL but the key is to do your own research, make your own opinion.
Also, if you look on reddit, and 4 chan, there are pictures of russian military in ukraine, they have been there for a while...working in an"advisory" role only, er, no that's "peacekeeping", I think. I think a short search of either site will supply you with the forensic proof you're looking for.
For starters on a decent twitter feed..http://twitter.com/liveuamap.
As for speculation, someone claimed responsibility, then eschewed it when it was determined the victims were for all intents and purposes, innocent. 18 years after TWA 800, too. I am not blaming the russian government, but you can be darned sure that buk system didn't run itself. Some one fired the missle, now the UN is calling for an international investigation, which is as likely as as rig inter changing their stance on crisis actors, eh?
and I git my information from Duck Dynasty, just like everyone else...now I suppose they could be crisis actors, too...prepare yer anus, google, i'm comin' for ya'!

edited for: didn't want to call people a douche...and
Found and amazing amount of intelligence on twitter and fb regarding this fellow mentioned above the "donetsk people's army". Will filter and parse out as it gets juicy...
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