2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby elfismiles » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:40 pm

Cold War-Hungry Neocons Stage Managed Liz Wahl’s Resignation
Post by seemslikeadream » 19 Mar 2014 13:46
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37916

MayDay » 20 Jul 2014 17:54 wrote:I remember another RT anchor quit because RT was reporting on the Svoboda/ Right Sector involvement in the Maidan. She went on CNN or fox and claimed that absolutely no fascists/ neo nazis were involved in the uprising, which is total BS. I remember thinking at the time that she was a plant, an asset to be cashed at the right moment. I'd post the video, but I'm limited to my low end android at the moment.

RT is a Kremlin tool of course. They will report anything if they think it will hurt the west. And they are definitely mishandling the reporting of the current situation.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby jingofever » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:41 am

Count to ten when a plane goes down…:

Just a little under 31 years ago, I played a key role in a conspiracy theory that grew up around a passenger plane downed by a Russian missile. Trust me, I did not mean to be involved.

On September 1, 1983, Korean Airlines flight 007, a Boeing 747 with 269 passengers, was shot down over the Sea of Japan. At about 6am that morning, I arrived at my summer job at the American Embassy in Tokyo where my task was usually to start up the computer which had been turned off over night. But on this morning, I realized the system was already engaged and that a surprisingly large number of workstations had been left on over night. While rare, I had seen this pattern before when a Washington deadline for information was looming.

Not long after I arrived in my office, I received a call from a secretary in the Agriculture Department who liked to play a computer game before her workday started. Her favorite game had a bug that regularly froze her workstation. This was the “bad old days” of computers and the only way to reset her station was from my central console.

On this day, I highlighted her workstation and hit the F6 key to reset. But my screen went temporarily black and then seemed to be starting again. I realized that I had mistakenly hit F7 and reset all the workstations in the embassy. This realization didn’t bother me much, because no one except the Agriculture section secretary was usually on the computer system this early in the morning.

But then all hell broke lose.

My boss, a Japanese computer engineer named Itoh, poked his head in the door. This was a shock because I had never seen Mr. Itoh before 10am ever. My job was to come in early and leave early and he arrived late and stayed late to shut down the system each night. He asked me what had happened. I told him I had shut down the system by mistake. He shook his head and ran down the hall.

Next, the head administrator, who I had only seen once in the computer room, walked in. He asked where Mr. Itoh was. I pointed down the hall. And he ran that direction as well.

More than an hour later, the Administrative Director returned to my office to explain what had happened. He told me about the Korean Airline disaster and that no one really knew what was going on, but that most of the information available was coming in from Japanese sources—first from Japanese fishing ships in the area and later from Japanese defense forces who were being dispatched to look for debris. A team of translators and US diplomats had been readying the first report for President Reagan at the time I turned off the computer systems. As this was a very early computer with limited backup capability, hours of work of dozens of experts had been lost when I inadvertently closed down the computer.

I, naturally, felt terrible and was, appropriately, fired.

It was only weeks later that I began to comprehend the effects of this single keystroke mistake. President Reagan was criticized in the press for his administration’s delayed announcement of the tragedy. But more troublesome, the reports that were being compiled in the US Embassy at the time of my error were meant to be shared with the South Korean government. As the team in Tokyo went back to rewriting the report—with clear evidence that the plane had been downed in the Sea of Japan—the South Korean government, working from flawed data, announced that the airliner had simply been forced to land in Russian territory and that all passengers and crew were safe.

That Korean announcement and the slow response by the US President—both caused by delayed real information—caused decades of conspiracy theories. Until the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, many Koreans clung to the hope that their loved ones were still alive and well in some Siberian prison camp.

So today, in the face of a Malaysian Airline crash in the Ukraine—and with all the associated speculation of 24-hour news organizations and the Tweetosphere, my advice is to take a deep breath, count to ten, and know that there is a very good chance that truth in the matter will be forthcoming very soon. And let’s hope that there is no stupid 23-year-old with his finger on an important keyboard in this information chain.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:25 am

In this new CNN video, Kerry and others claims all the evidence points to the Russian military being behind the attack
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/21/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Here's the thing though, regardless of who ordered who who did the firing, isn't the question "What was the intention?" Regardless
if it was Russian military, Russian backed rebels, or the Ukraines or proxies was it known that it was a civilian plane and they just wanted to cause terror
or was it a cock up?

Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, says that the crash should be investigated as "an act of terrorism". That seems tendentious since, by definition, terrorist acts have to be intentional, and nothing about the fate of the Malaysian plane suggests that those who shot it down intended or wanted to kill civilians.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... er-ukraine

Yeah how do they know it wasn't intended? Just a bunch of drunk Russians playing with their toys? Hell even some theories floating the plane was intentionally diverted over that area.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Morty » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:17 am

OpEdNews Op Eds 7/22/2014 at 01:01:27
The Russian Military Finally Speaks! - The Saker with Comment
By Michael Collins

The Russian Military held an extraordinary press conference today regarding the downing of the Malaysian civilian airliner over Ukraine. RT covered the event in detail. The Independent also headlined an abbreviated version of the presentation. Other than that, the U.S.-NATO media/steno pool followed the lead of President Barack Obama and ignored the stunning claims. This was done for a very good reason. The Russians presented evidence that they claim shows:

"There was what appears to have been a [Ukraine] military aircraft (with no transponder) flying below 5000m which suddenly began climbing just before MH17 was hit by some kind of missile." The Saker

A Ukrainian aircraft was near the downed plane just before it was hit. It seems the earlier reports are true. This is a major shift in the battle for information about the disaster. The Ukrainians refuse to release their air traffic control recordings. Now, if Russia's presentation is accurate, they've been lying about the presence of their aircraft. Why would they lie?

Russia is right next door to Ukraine. Their air tracking and very capable air defense systems are deployed and especially focused given the civil war just over the Russian border. The Russians clearly have the ability to make these claims.

The Russians released a significant amount of information in a drawn out press briefing Monday morning. Their move illustrates what some of us refer to as the Russian chess compared to Obama-Kerry checkers (see 3/20). The radar records used to make the point were from civilian sources. The Russians have their military radars but have not released them. Russia asked the United States to release U.S. satellite imagery (the satellite was right over the area where MH17 was attacked).

The first Russian move was today's press conference and the data released. They held back the military radar records. The next move is up to Obama-Kerry. Will Obama-Kerry release the satellite imagery? If they don't, the next move by Russia would be a release of the military radar records and another challenge to release the U.S. on satellite releases.


More at link.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:30 am

Putin Knows What Happened to MH17, But He's Not Saying--Yet ....

It’s also worth noting that the journalist who co-authored Sunday’s piece on Kerry in the New York Times was none other than Michael R. Gordon. In 2002 Gordon co-wrote a piece about aluminum tubes with Judith Miller which was intended to scare readers “with images of mushroom clouds” into supporting the war in Iraq. The story turned out to be complete baloney, but it helped to pave the way for the US invasion as it was intended to do. Gordon escaped blame for the article, while the discredited Miller was released.




JULY 22, 2014

Cui Bono?
It’s Putin’s Missile!
by PEPE ESCOBAR
And here’s the spin war verdict: the current Malaysia Airlines tragedy – the second in four months – is “terrorism” perpetrated by “pro-Russian separatists”, armed by Russia, and Vladimir Putin is the main culprit. End of story. Anyone who believes otherwise, shut up.

Why? Because the CIA said so. Because Hillary “We came, we saw, he died” Clinton said so. Because batshit crazy Samantha “R2P” Power said so – thundering at the UN, everything duly printed by the neo-con infested Washington Post. [1]

Because Anglo-American corporate media – from CNN to Fox (who tried to buy Time Warner, which owns CNN) – said so. Because the President of the United States (POTUS) said so. And mostly because Kiev had vociferously said so in the first place.

Right off the bat they were all lined up – the invariably hysterical reams of “experts” of the “US intelligence community” literally foaming at their palatial mouths at “evil” Russia and “evil” Putin; intel “experts” who could not identify a convoy of gleaming white Toyotas crossing the Iraqi desert to take Mosul. And yet they have already sentenced they don’t need to look any further, instantly solving the MH17 riddle.

It doesn’t matter that President Putin has stressed the MH17 tragedy must be investigated objectively. And “objectively” certainly does not mean that fictional ”international community” notion construed by Washington – the usual congregation of pliable vassals/patsies.

And what about Carlos?

A simple search at reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200 kilometers north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysia Airlines in the previous days – and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication MH17 received from Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won’t happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation on why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.

The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational near the MH17′s crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing down jets flying at 33,000 ft.

Radiation from a battery’s Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla (a village some 30km south of Donetsk) was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance from MH17′s flight path. The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles. MH17 was flying at 500 mph. So assuming the “rebels” had an operational Buk and did it, they would have had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high. For evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag, check here.

And then there’s the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev’s tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit – not a cipher; for others, he’s never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account – not accidentally – has been shut down, and he has disappeared; his friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online – and now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

* “The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48 pm)”

* “If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)”

* ”As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)”

* “Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don’t believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)”

* ”The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn’t. (7.15)”

* “The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)”

Carlos’s assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here): the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior – NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andriy Parubiy, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-nazis on Maidan.

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king President Petro Poroshenko – who would like a d?tente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests – and Saint Yulia Timoshenko, who’s on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US “military advisers” on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Timoshenko factions.

So who profits?

The key question remains, of course, cui bono? Only the terminally brain dead believe shooting a passenger jet benefits the federalists in Eastern Ukraine, not to mention the Kremlin.

As for Kiev, they’d have the means, the motive and the window of opportunity to pull it off – especially after Kiev’s militias have been effectively routed, and were in retreat, in the Donbass; and this after Kiev remained dead set on attacking and bombing the population of Eastern Ukraine even from above. No wonder the federalists had to defend themselves.

And then there’s the suspicious timing. The MH17 tragedy happened two days after the BRICS announced an antidote to the IMF and the World Bank, bypassing the US dollar. And just as Israel “cautiously” advances its new invasion/slow motion ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Malaysia, by the way, is the seat of the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission, which has found Israel guilty of crimes against humanity.

Washington, of course, does profit. What the Empire of Chaos gets in this case is a ceasefire (so the disorganized, battered Kiev militias may be resupplied); the branding of Eastern Ukrainians as de facto “terrorists” (as Kiev, Dick Cheney-style, always wanted); and unlimited mud thrown over Russia and Putin in particular until Kingdom Come. Not bad for a few minutes’ work. As for NATO, that’s Christmas in July.

From now on, it all depends on Russian intelligence. They have been surveying/tracking everything that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, where from, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have access to forensic evidence.

Unlike Washington – who already knows everything, with no evidence whatsoever (remember 9/11?) – Moscow will take its time to know the basic journalistic facts of what, where, and who, and engage on proving the truth and/or disproving Washington’s spin.

The historical record shows Washington simply won’t release data if it points to a missile coming from its Kiev vassals. The data may even point to a bomb planted on MH17, or mechanical failure – although that’s unlikely. If this was a terrible mistake by the Novorossiya rebels, Moscow will have to reluctantly admit it. If Kiev did it, the revelation will be instantaneous. Anyway we already know the hysterical Western response, no matter what; Russia is to blame.

Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko had agreed to extend a cease-fire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him in late June. At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in the airspace they – theoretically – control.

But all that is already forgotten in the fog of war, tragedy and hype. As for Washington’s hysterical claims of credibility, I leave you with just one number: Iran Air 655.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby conniption » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:39 pm

MSNBC INTERVIEWS EYEWITNESS OF SHOOTDOWN OF MH 17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jecFzJ1sgIQ
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:46 pm

US is saying it was a mistake by Russian backed rebels who thought it was a Ukrainian plane, Ukraine is saying it was a deliberate act of terrorism by Russia,
Russia claims it was the Ukraine who shot it down...all one big rorschach. Now if one more Malaysia 777 goes down or goes missing this year, I may have to assign blame
to something much weirder than drunken anti Ukraine forces :p
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby alan ford » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:07 pm

Just a little under 31 years ago, I played a key role in a conspiracy theory that grew up around a passenger plane downed by a Russian missile. Trust me, I did not mean to be involved.

On September 1, 1983, Korean Airlines flight 007, a Boeing 747 with 269 passengers, was shot down over the Sea of Japan. At about 6am that morning, I arrived at my summer job at the American Embassy in Tokyo where my task was usually to start up the computer which had been turned off over night. But on this morning, I realized the system was already engaged and that a surprisingly large number of workstations had been left on over night. While rare, I had seen this pattern before when a Washington deadline for information was looming.

Not long after I arrived in my office, I received a call from a secretary in the Agriculture Department who liked to play a computer game before her workday started. Her favorite game had a bug that regularly froze her workstation. This was the “bad old days” of computers and the only way to reset her station was from my central console.

On this day, I highlighted her workstation and hit the F6 key to reset. But my screen went temporarily black and then seemed to be starting again. I realized that I had mistakenly hit F7 and reset all the workstations in the embassy. This realization didn’t bother me much, because no one except the Agriculture section secretary was usually on the computer system this early in the morning.

But then all hell broke lose.

My boss, a Japanese computer engineer named Itoh, poked his head in the door. This was a shock because I had never seen Mr. Itoh before 10am ever. My job was to come in early and leave early and he arrived late and stayed late to shut down the system each night. He asked me what had happened. I told him I had shut down the system by mistake. He shook his head and ran down the hall.

Next, the head administrator, who I had only seen once in the computer room, walked in. He asked where Mr. Itoh was. I pointed down the hall. And he ran that direction as well.

More than an hour later, the Administrative Director returned to my office to explain what had happened. He told me about the Korean Airline disaster and that no one really knew what was going on, but that most of the information available was coming in from Japanese sources—first from Japanese fishing ships in the area and later from Japanese defense forces who were being dispatched to look for debris. A team of translators and US diplomats had been readying the first report for President Reagan at the time I turned off the computer systems. As this was a very early computer with limited backup capability, hours of work of dozens of experts had been lost when I inadvertently closed down the computer.

I, naturally, felt terrible and was, appropriately, fired.

It was only weeks later that I began to comprehend the effects of this single keystroke mistake. President Reagan was criticized in the press for his administration’s delayed announcement of the tragedy. But more troublesome, the reports that were being compiled in the US Embassy at the time of my error were meant to be shared with the South Korean government. As the team in Tokyo went back to rewriting the report—with clear evidence that the plane had been downed in the Sea of Japan—the South Korean government, working from flawed data, announced that the airliner had simply been forced to land in Russian territory and that all passengers and crew were safe.

That Korean announcement and the slow response by the US President—both caused by delayed real information—caused decades of conspiracy theories. Until the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, many Koreans clung to the hope that their loved ones were still alive and well in some Siberian prison camp.

So today, in the face of a Malaysian Airline crash in the Ukraine—and with all the associated speculation of 24-hour news organizations and the Tweetosphere, my advice is to take a deep breath, count to ten, and know that there is a very good chance that truth in the matter will be forthcoming very soon. And let’s hope that there is no stupid 23-year-old with his finger on an important keyboard in this information chain.


This sounds like an urban legend...the blog exists, there is an author name and yet it sounds to me like a legitimate urban legend. I wonder...
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Morty » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:51 pm

The cui bono question is being eclipsed by a mea culpa mood:



[Edited to delete full text of article, coz I've since seen evidence that it's not accurate.]
Last edited by Morty on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby demolished » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:05 am

False flag - the oldest trick in the book ! but still works ?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian- ... al/5392658



Malaysian Airlines MH17: Another “False Flag Operation” by the US-NATO-Israel War Cabal?
By Matthias Chang

One would have thought that the Zionist Anglo-American war cabal would learn from their failures in propaganda warfare, especially now when their credibility is at rock bottom.

Post 9-11 and the Iraq wars, people the world over have got wiser to the devious propaganda ploys orchestrated by the global mass media.

Pointing an accusing finger within an hour of a false flag operation no longer carries any weight even if it is repeated hour on the hour by CNN, FOX, BBC etc. without an iota of evidence.
....

No space for time .
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 82_28 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:19 am

What worries me is that "they" are going for "broke".

In order for something much larger. Yet, if not "larger" the perceived smallness could be key. Perception and propaganda.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Morty » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:45 am

I've just read the public part of Putin's speech at Russia's Security Council, and it doesn't agree in any way with the assessment made of it by Fred Weir of CSMonitor. Weir's article stinks actually. So I'm going to remove the full text of it from my post above. Apologies.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 am

Has anyone anywhere yet published ANY actual evidence that the Russians and/or the pro-Russians shot down that plane?

Or is the"evidence" all like this (i.e., mere unsupported assertion)?

US State Department "Confident" MH17 "Mistakenly" Downed By Separatists, Finds No Direct Link To Russia

Tyler Durden on 07/22/2014 22:38 -0400

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-2 ... direct-lin


- Sidenote: the German media have been absolutely vile -- I mean: Nazi-vile -- about this issue (as they have been about the ongoing massacre of Semites in Gaza). For the last year at least, there has been a sustained campaign to restore Russia to the status of Official Enemy Number One. The gentlemen of the press are now openly agitating for a new Cold (or maybe even Hot) War.


Flug MH17 in der Ukraine abgeschossen

Geheimdienste sicher: Es waren Moskau-treue Rebellen

Malaysische Boeing wurde mit russischen Flugabwehr-Raketen vom Himmel geholt +++ Separatisten und Putins Medien feiern den Abschuss +++ Mindestens 298 Menschen tot

http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/flug ... .bild.html


^^That's Bild from July18. Translation:

Flight MH17 shot down in the Ukraine

Intelligence Services certain: the culprits were rebels faithful to Moscow

Malaysian Boeing brought down by Russian anti-aircraft missile +++ Separatists and Putin's media celebrate the shooting-down +++ At least 298 People dead


(The 'quality' press, with a mere handful of honourable exceptions, have been no better)
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Morty » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:00 am

MacCruiskeen » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:29 am wrote:Has anyone anywhere yet published ANY actual evidence that the Russians and/or the pro-Russians shot down that plane?


The "slam dunk, smoking gun" evidence which has 90+% of the population believing the separatists did it is the youtubes released by the Ukraine govt. of alleged conversations between separatist and separatist, and separatist and Russian General. "We just shot down a plane" "it turns out it's a passenger plane" "Our friends in Moscow have asked if you locate the black boxes can you pass them on to them" kind of stuff. Authenticated by US analysts, not authenticated by Russian analysts. Are they really that brazen that they'd run with these youtubes if they were fakes? (Sounds like such a naive question even before I begin to type it...)
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:29 am

Thanks, Morty. I've been busy offline and unable to follow this story in much detail.

This is from AP, yesterday. Worth reading closely. I quickly gave up bolding the bits where those "senior U.S. intelligence officials" admit they are in fact full of shit -- there are just too many such bits. The cumulative effect is positively comic.

US: Russia 'created the conditions' for shoot-down

By KEN DILANIAN
— Jul. 22, 2014 8:31 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.

The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have [allegedly] been authenticated by U.S. experts.

But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks by Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial jetliner.

In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're not even 100 percent sure of a nationality," one official said, adding at another point, "There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here."

White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said the U.S. was still working to determine whether the missile launch had a "direct link" to Russia, including whether there were Russians on the ground during the attack and the degree to which Russians may have trained the separatists to launch such a strike.

"We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to these separatists, the arms they provided to these separatists, the training they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine," Rhodes said in an interview with CNN.

He added that heavy weaponry continues to flow into Ukraine from Russia following the downing of the plane.

The intelligence officials said the most likely explanation for the downing was that the rebels made a mistake. Separatists previously had shot down 12 Ukrainian military airplanes, the officials said.

The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public in recent days by the Ukrainian government, even though they have not been able to authenticate all of it. For example, they cited a video of a missile launcher said to have been crossing the Russian border after the launch, appearing to be missing a missile.

But later, under questioning, the officials acknowledged they had not yet verified that the video was exactly what it purported to be.

Despite the fuzziness of some details, however, the intelligence officials said the case that the separatists were responsible for shooting down the plane was solid. Other scenarios — such as that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane — are implausible, they said. No Ukrainian surface-to-air missile system was in range.

From satellites, sensors and other intelligence gathering, officials said, they know where the missile originated — in separatist-held territory — and what its flight path was. But if they possess satellite or other imagery of the missile being fired, they did not release it Tuesday. A graphic they made public depicts their estimation of the missile's flight path with a green line. The jet's flight path was available from air traffic control data.

In the weeks before the plane was shot down, Russia had stepped up its arming and training of the separatists after the Ukrainian government won a string of battlefield victories. The working theory is that the SA-11 missile came from Russia, although the U.S. doesn't have proof of that, the officials said.

U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said last week that "because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel. Thus, we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems," she said.

Asked about evidence, one of the senior U.S. intelligence officials said it was conceivable that Russian paramilitary troops are operating in eastern Ukraine, but that there was no direct link from them to the missile launch.

Asked why civilian airline companies were not warned about a possible threat, the officials said they did not know the rebels possessed SA-11 missiles until after the Malaysian airliner was shot down. :wallhead:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-prese ... ne-crash-0



^^ Ignore the feebly prevaricating headline and it amounts to an open admission that that the US has -- at least as yet -- no evidence whatsoever that hasn't come straight out of its own ass. Either that, or any evidence they do have is pointing in an embarrassing (and therefore inadmissable) direction.

NB:

Anonymous US spook giving the official line to AP wrote: "There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here."


:eeyaa Translation: "This crime is never going to be solved." Quite a remarkably confident statement, wouldn't you say? Is he clairvoyant?
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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