2014 Malaysian Planes Lost: Pacific and Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby demolished » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:07 am

It's difficult for us, common folks, to get any real evidence, but we can always see the real intention of the involved parties .

Case in point:
In the wake of 9/11 , it took America only a couple of days to blame Osama (relying on fake video, fake indentity, fake plane phone calls etc.) , and then only matter of a month or so for them to get American troops into Afghanistan . (There was no official investigation of 9/11 until a whole year later, which was all but a sham !) .

In the MH-17 event, it was only a matter of hours afterwards when blames started flying faster than missiles , and we can all see clearly who screamed the loudest.

It's not only in fairy stories where you'd see the wolves cry "Wolf!".
No space for time .
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby Morty » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:06 am

There is enough evidence and information out there, contradicting the story we've been fed so far, for us to ask for questions to be answered. And serious damage will be done to the brand if the answers aren't forthcoming, because a lot more people are going to be hearing both sides of the story this time around.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:38 am

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby elfismiles » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:18 am

Yesterday Scott Horton interviewed Nebojsa Malic on who's behind the shootdown.

Interview isn't posted yet but here is Malic's article:

MH17 and Some Basic Police Work
by Nebojsa Malic, Friday, July 25, 2014
http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2014/07/ ... -work.html

Conspicuously absent from any coverage has been the thought of the Kiev junta shooting the airplane down. Yet the junta fits the classic police trifecta of means, motive and opportunity perfectly.

Means: the Ukrainian armed forces possess multiple Buk launchers in working order, over a dozen of which were deployed in the region at the time.

Motive: Blame Russia and the "rebels", which Kiev has been doing for months anyway, but especially at the moment when four of their brigades had just been cut to pieces by the "rebels" in the Marinovka/Saur-Mogila "cauldron" along the southern border.

Opportunity: MH17 was diverted from the regular flight path, and directed to a lower altitude, by the Dnepropetrovsk Air Traffic Control (ATC), i.e. officials loyal to the Kiev regime. Its normal flight path would have taken it nowhere near the war zone.

Then there was the immediate attempt to pin this on Russia and the rebels, through doctored "audio intercepts" and YouTube videos.


Russia’s Choice, in 1914 and Now
A Tale of Two Julys
by Nebojsa Malic, July 12, 2014
http://original.antiwar.com/malic/2014/ ... 4-and-now/

Tuesday, July 22, 2014
Bring Psaki Back
Image
Marie Harf of the State Department, being "impartial" and "objective" (photo via Ron Paul Institute)

From the State Department press briefing, July 21, 2014; Marie Harf (A) responding to questions from Matt Lee of AP (Q). Original transcript here.

Q: Well, I mean, again, you might be right, but I don’t see how you can say that everything we say is right and everything the Russians say is a lie.
A: That’s not what I said.
Q: That’s exactly what you just said right now.
A: That’s not what I said. I said I would say that we are not two credible, equally credible parties when it comes to what we say publicly about the conflict in Ukraine.
Q: And your argument would be that the U.S. is more credible than the Russians are, right? Is that what you’re –
A: I’m not even dignifying that question with a response.
Q: But you’re leaving that impression, Marie.
A: That we’re more credible? Yes. We don’t put out mass amounts of propaganda. We don’t put out misinformation about what’s happening there repeatedly over the course of this conflict, which I've spoken about from this podium day after day. Absolutely.

Who are you going to believe, Marie Harf, or your own lying eyes?

Where do they find these people? Barf, indeed.

Hat tip: Niqnaq.
Posted by CubuCoko at 11:38

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2014/07/ ... -back.html
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:22 am

yes I just posted him in an OP

thanks!
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby demolished » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:34 am



what a powder keg !

... the stage is all set ... for even more serious false flags ?
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:03 am

grayfalcon.blogspot wrote:
From the State Department press briefing, July 21, 2014; Marie Harf (A) responding to questions from Matt Lee of AP (Q). Original transcript here.

Q: Well, I mean, again, you might be right, but I don’t see how you can say that everything we say is right and everything the Russians say is a lie.
A: That’s not what I said.
Q: That’s exactly what you just said right now.
A: That’s not what I said. I said I would say that we are not two credible, equally credible parties when it comes to what we say publicly about the conflict in Ukraine.
Q: And your argument would be that the U.S. is more credible than the Russians are, right? Is that what you’re –
A: I’m not even dignifying that question with a response.
Q: But you’re leaving that impression, Marie.
A: That we’re more credible? Yes. We don’t put out mass amounts of propaganda. We don’t put out misinformation about what’s happening there repeatedly over the course of this conflict, which I've spoken about from this podium day after day. Absolutely.

Who are you going to believe, Marie Harf, or your own lying eyes?

...

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2014/07/ ... -back.html


"Who are you going to believe, Marie Harf, or your own lying eyes?" - Much more to the point, Marie Harf does not actually deny putting out either propaganda or disinformation. See the bolded words. So: just some propaganda, not "mass amounts" of it. (Exactly what is a mass amount? That's open to debate.) And only sometimes since the conflict began, not "repeatedly over the course of it." (E.g., sometimes they had lunch instead. And no doubt never repeated themselves exactly. Et cetera.)

That is some crafty spokespersoneering by Ms. Harf there. Highly professional slipperiness. It is what she's paid for, after all.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:45 pm

Firstly a quiick thanks to all who've posted regarding the latest Air Malaysia catastrophe.

Meanwhile, did "they" ever find any trace of the Malaysian airways plane that mysteriously dissappeared a good while ago?

Nobody knows where it is yet?
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:10 pm

MacCruiskeen » 25 Jul 2014 21:02 wrote:
Wombaticus Rex » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:38 pm wrote:I find the fact these people were killed far more egregious than anything that happened to their corpses: then again, not a religous man.


Plus:

1. Their corpses were strewn across a war zone.

2. As far as I can tell (but please correct me -- with the evidence -- if I'm wrong about this), the pro-Russian militiamen treated those corpses with respect, removed them from the 30°C - 34°C heat of the sun in that war-zone, and drove a refrigerated train to that war-zone as quickly as possible to preserve them for decent burial preceded by proper autopsies.

Last but by no means least: They retrieved both the Black Boxes quickly and (as has been confirmed) handed them over to the authorised investigators intact and untampered-with and without significant delay
.
Let me know when US investigators find the eight missing Black Boxes from the four 9/11 flights. It's been 12 years and 10 months now, and -- again, as far as I know -- not one of them has been found yet, not even in that field in Pennsylvania (which was not a war zone). Remarkable. Unique, in fact.

PS After a week of strident warmongering against Russia (ffs), the disgusting German corporate media have gone notably quiet about this topic in the last two days. (Maybe because those black boxes are intact? Time will tell.)


:clapping:

With due respect to all reading, isnt the entire situation some kind of sick fucking joke?
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:33 pm

I wrote:strident warmongering against Russia


Was I exaggerating?

Image

slimmouse wrote:isnt the entire situation some kind of sick fucking joke?


There was a brief period between about 1945 and 1975 when it wasn't entirely that, or at least not everywhere. But yes. We are now going to hell in a clown car.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:08 pm

We are so fucked.

I'm just wondering when between 1945 (Hiroshima) and 1975 (Saigon) you think things were sane. October 1962, perhaps? Feels like the crazies are trying to do better this time.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby demolished » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:16 pm

demolished » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm wrote:....
It's not only in fairy stories where you'd see the wolves cry "Wolf!".


My metaphor was hopelessly outdated !

It should have been:


It's not only "on magazine covers" where you'd see the wolves cry "Wolf!".
No space for time .
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:51 pm

Here's the PR version of the Newsweek cover.

Pentagon Plan Would Help Ukraine Target Rebel Missiles

By DAVID E. SANGER and ERIC SCHMITTJULY 26, 2014

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/world ... ebels.html

The Pentagon and American intelligence agencies are developing plans that would enable the Obama administration to provide specific locations of surface-to-air missiles controlled by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine so the Ukrainian government could target them for destruction, American officials said.

But the proposal has not yet been debated in the White House, a senior administration official said. It is unclear whether President Obama, who has already approved limited intelligence sharing with Ukraine, will agree to give more precise information about potential military targets, a step that would involve the United States more deeply in the conflict.

Already, the question of what kind of intelligence support to give the Ukrainian government has become part of a larger debate within the administration about how directly to confront President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and how big a role Washington should take in trying to stop Russia’s rapid delivery of powerful weapons to eastern Ukraine.


No need to back up that this is actually happening.

At the core of the debate, said several officials — who, like others interviewed, spoke on the condition of anonymity because the policy deliberations are still in progress — is whether the American goal should be simply to shore up a Ukrainian government reeling from the separatist attacks, or to send a stern message to Mr. Putin by aggressively helping Ukraine target the missiles Russia has provided. Those missiles have taken down at least five aircraft in the past 10 days, including Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Since the downing of Flight 17, a civilian jet, the flow of heavy arms into eastern Ukraine has drastically increased, the Pentagon and the State Department said on Friday, citing American intelligence reports.


Round robin of self-confirmation!

The Obama administration is already sharing with the Ukrainians satellite photographs and other evidence of the movement of troops and equipment along the Ukrainian-Russian border. But a senior administration official acknowledged late Friday that the data were “historical in nature,” hours or even days old, and not timely enough to use in carrying out airstrikes or other direct attacks.

“We’ve been cautious to date about things that could directly hit Russia — principally its territory,” but also its equipment, the official said. A proposal to give the Ukrainians real-time information “hasn’t gotten to the president yet,” the official said, in part because the White House has been focused on rallying support among European allies for more stringent economic sanctions against Moscow, and on gaining access for investigators to the Malaysia Airlines crash site.

But the official added that the decision on whether to provide targeting information would soon become “part of the intel mix.”


Hey, if Saddam was good enough in 1985, our friends in Kiev certainly are!

Now as for the "debate"... meaning the roll-out of what they're already doing...

The debate over providing information about potential military targets gives the first insight into the Obama administration’s thinking on long-term strategies to bolster Ukraine, counter Russia and reassure nervous Eastern European nations, some of which have joined NATO in recent years.

Plans to share more precise targeting information with Ukraine have the strong backing of senior Pentagon officials and would fit broadly into Mr. Obama’s emerging national security doctrine of supporting allied and partner nations in defending their territory without direct American military involvement.

Several senior American military and intelligence officials are arguing that if Mr. Putin does not encounter significant resistance to Russia’s moves in Ukraine, he may be emboldened to go further.


Paris again?! Those fucking Soviets.

And a senior State Department official said Saturday that Secretary of State John Kerry supported sharing intelligence on the locations of surface-to-air missiles that Russia has supplied the separatists.

Providing the location of weaponry and military equipment for possible destruction — something the United States does for Iraq in its battle against Islamic extremists, for example


Don't forget the earlier Iraq example!

— would not be technologically difficult. “We think we could do it easily and be very effective,” a senior military official involved in the discussions said. “But there are issues of escalation with the Russians, and the decision about whether it’s wise to do it” is complex.

Another senior official said there were questions of whether the Ukrainian military, even if given targeting coordinates, had the reach and the precision to strike Russian-supplied antiaircraft batteries.


That's why we'll need American drones.

The trucks transporting the missiles move frequently, often back and forth across the border. And if any strikes missed their targets, they could cause civilian casualties or land in Russia, giving Mr. Putin an excuse to enlarge the conflict.

“Although providing the Ukrainian forces with target location data may seem like a panacea, the actual destruction of these mobile launchers by Ukrainian forces may prove quite a bit more difficult,” said Reed Foster, an analyst at IHS Jane’s.

Mr. Foster said that Ukrainian forces had not trained extensively on using intelligence from other countries, and that any Ukrainian warplanes trying to strike missile sites would be vulnerable to ground fire. Some officials say they are worried that the Ukrainian military has been infiltrated by Russian sympathizers and agents, meaning that if the United States gave locations for targeting, the separatists could have warning of attacks.


Infiltrated! You'd think Ukraine had a largely Russian population, and a majority who had voted for the government that the Kiev putschists overthrew.

Still, the issue has become increasingly urgent. The Pentagon said on Friday that it had seen evidence that Russia was planning a major influx of new weaponry across the border, and that it believed multiple-rocket launchers would soon be delivered from Russia.


Soon! Soon!

American officials also said they had evidence that Russia was firing artillery from within its borders to attack Ukrainian military positions.

Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, NATO’s top commander, has drawn attention to a video that appears to show the Russian military firing short-range Grad rockets into Ukraine.


So it appears!

Ukraine is seeking all the Western help it can get as Russia increases aid to the separatists. Last week, Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, emphasized the role of unmanned Russian surveillance drones that he said had been used for precision targeting of Ukrainian positions. But Ukraine is not a NATO ally, complicating the question of how to support its government.


So very very complicated, this question of how to support the totally foreign non-NATO government, set up by the State Department.

“The debate is over how much to help Ukraine without provoking Russia,” said a senior official participating in the American discussions.


That's a great laugh line, as they have been in the process for months of intentionally and maximally provoking Russia. Precious. Priceless. But wait, there's more debate, at the Aspen Institute!

Speaking at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado on Thursday, Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, seemed to allude to the internal arguments when he said: “We have a very active, ongoing process to think through what support we may provide to Ukraine. That debate is ongoing.”

A senior Pentagon official said later that General Dempsey had been referring to all types of aid to Ukraine, including military assistance and intelligence sharing.

The Obama administration is giving Ukraine about $33 million in nonlethal support such as bomb-disposal equipment, radios and engineering equipment, and it plans to provide night-vision goggles. But there are bipartisan calls in Congress to supply weapons, ammunition, military vehicles and training as well.

“How can you possibly sit by and not give them military assistance with all the Russian arms flowing in?” Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, said in a telephone interview on Saturday.


Look, it's Mr. Bipartisan!

You know how they save the choicest bits for the last paragraph?

The shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines plane, on top of Russia’s earlier shipments of heavy weaponry, were a perilous escalation of the crisis that threatened to menace all of Europe and the United States, General Dempsey said.

“You’ve got a Russian government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives,” he said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the United States.”


Kiev! Warsaw! Berlin! Paris! Brooklyn! The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!

Reporting was contributed by Michael R. Gordon in Paris and David M. Herszenhorn in Kiev, Ukraine.


Whereas writing was done by two wankers and their editors, presumably all in New York.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:11 am

slimmouse » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:45 pm wrote:Firstly a quiick thanks to all who've posted regarding the latest Air Malaysia catastrophe.

Meanwhile, did "they" ever find any trace of the Malaysian airways plane that mysteriously dissappeared a good while ago?

Nobody knows where it is yet?


shhh...we're not suppose to remember that *other* Malaysia 777...other than being subconsciously reminded via MH17 :D
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Re: Malaysia Airlines plane missing over Vietnam

Postby elfismiles » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:57 pm

07/25/14 Nebojsa Malic

Nebojsa Malic, a regular columnist at Antiwar.com, discusses the US media’s immediate conclusion that Vladimir Putin was responsible for downing Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 despite a lack of proof and the possibility that the Ukrainian government shot it down.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 32:48 — 15.0MB)
http://dissentradio.com/radio/14_07_25_malic.mp3
http://scotthorton.org/interviews/2014/ ... jsa-malic/


elfismiles » 26 Jul 2014 13:18 wrote:Yesterday Scott Horton interviewed Nebojsa Malic on who's behind the shootdown.

Interview isn't posted yet but here is Malic's article:

MH17 and Some Basic Police Work
by Nebojsa Malic, Friday, July 25, 2014
http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2014/07/ ... -work.html

Conspicuously absent from any coverage has been the thought of the Kiev junta shooting the airplane down. Yet the junta fits the classic police trifecta of means, motive and opportunity perfectly.

Means: the Ukrainian armed forces possess multiple Buk launchers in working order, over a dozen of which were deployed in the region at the time.

Motive: Blame Russia and the "rebels", which Kiev has been doing for months anyway, but especially at the moment when four of their brigades had just been cut to pieces by the "rebels" in the Marinovka/Saur-Mogila "cauldron" along the southern border.

Opportunity: MH17 was diverted from the regular flight path, and directed to a lower altitude, by the Dnepropetrovsk Air Traffic Control (ATC), i.e. officials loyal to the Kiev regime. Its normal flight path would have taken it nowhere near the war zone.

Then there was the immediate attempt to pin this on Russia and the rebels, through doctored "audio intercepts" and YouTube videos.


Russia’s Choice, in 1914 and Now
A Tale of Two Julys
by Nebojsa Malic, July 12, 2014
http://original.antiwar.com/malic/2014/ ... 4-and-now/
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