Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby Forgetting2 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:49 pm

Mr Rex, nicely put. I was thinking, in less perfectly pithy terms, the same thing.
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby brainpanhandler » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:04 pm

coffin_dodger » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:16 am wrote:Jack, that's a fantastic piece of impartial analysis. Thanks.

Isn't it about time this thread got a spamming, regaling tales of Russian anti-semetism, sweaty Russian hunks wearing balaclavas and waving red and black flags?


Well, clearly what's missing from the riddler's analysis is the identity of the real movers behind the mainstream headlines. Why won't Israel align with the US and condemn Putin's encroachment into the Ukraine? The illuminati media would have you believe it was because they are afraid Russia will sell arms to Syria. Make no mistake the Rothschilds are behind this. They're fingerprints are all over it. Garry Kasparov is a shape shifting reptilian with a penchant for revealing the plan in code only the aware will recognize. Seek out his analysis and read between the lines. The pieces are moving.
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:20 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:
coffin_dodger » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:16 am wrote:Jack, that's a fantastic piece of impartial analysis. Thanks.

Isn't it about time this thread got a spamming, regaling tales of Russian anti-semetism, sweaty Russian hunks wearing balaclavas and waving red and black flags?


Well, clearly what's missing from the riddler's analysis is the identity of the real movers behind the mainstream headlines. Why won't Israel align with the US and condemn Putin's encroachment into the Ukraine? The illuminati media would have you believe it was because they are afraid Russia will sell arms to Syria. Make no mistake the Rothschilds are behind this. They're fingerprints are all over it. Garry Kasparov is a shape shifting reptilian with a penchant for revealing the plan in code only the aware will recognize. Seek out his analysis and read between the lines. The pieces are moving.


Ah, I see the batphone has been ringing on your desk again, BPH.
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby brainpanhandler » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:46 pm

Actually I'm was just bored and had a few minutes to kill.

To be honest though I think there are quiet actors left out of Jack's analysis. There always are. In the absence of better information and insight we tend to fill the void with something.
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby coffin_dodger » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:17 am

Eeesh, we do seem to be approaching some sort of apogee of critical world events

Ukraine Coalition Government Collapses as 2 Parties Quit 24 July 2104
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-24/ukraine-coalition-government-collapses-as-2-parties-quit.html
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby LolaB » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:26 am

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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:13 pm

Now this is an opportunity for immediate negotiations and cease-fire that depends largely on Poroshenko. But from his rhetoric (as given by the German report in Rheinische Post, or Rheinische Pest as wags prefer to call it), it seems likelier there will first be a massive intensification of the attempt at a military solution. What are the odds that U.S. will decide the brink is far enough and rein him in, or Germany-EU will take a more active role in it? (This is where the demonization of Putin brings things closer to inevitability.) Fact is, there has been little pacification on the ground, only massacres, and it's very unlikely there will be peace in the east in time for a credible vote there. The big story otherwise is that before breaking up the coalition passed a law to institute a draft from among all men aged 18-50. (Yes! I'm still of military age!) This could bring the people back into the equation. If Kiev follows the path of escalation and the draft, there may come sufficient resistance in the western Ukraine for a new squares movement, this time against Poroshenko.
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby slimmouse » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:46 pm

JackRiddler » 24 Jul 2014 16:13 wrote:Now this is an opportunity for immediate negotiations and cease-fire that depends largely on Poroshenko. But from his rhetoric (as given by the German report in Rheinische Post, or Rheinische Pest as wags prefer to call it), it seems likelier there will first be a massive intensification of the attempt at a military solution. What are the odds that U.S. will decide the brink is far enough and rein him in, or Germany-EU will take a more active role in it? (This is where the demonization of Putin brings things closer to inevitability.) Fact is, there has been little pacification on the ground, only massacres, and it's very unlikely there will be peace in the east in time for a credible vote there. The big story otherwise is that before breaking up the coalition passed a law to institute a draft from among all men aged 18-50. (Yes! I'm still of military age!) This could bring the people back into the equation. If Kiev follows the path of escalation and the draft, there may come sufficient resistance in the western Ukraine for a new squares movement, this time against Poroshenko.


Wonderful isnt it... People are needlessly dying, planes are being shot down for whatever the fuck reason, or perhaps, just maybe, the elite on both sides are essentially interested in the natural resources of the land as the primary objective here. Namely the energy of both the earth and the people.

The rhetorical question is......."is this what most people really want?!
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby brainpanhandler » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:49 pm

Company In Which Joe Biden's Son Is Director Prepares To Drill Shale Gas In East Ukraine
Tyler Durden on 07/25/2014

...

In a nutshell Ukraine (or rather its puppetmasters) has decided to let no crisis (staged or otherwise) or rather civil war, go to waste, and while the fighting rages all around, Ukrainian troopers are helping to install shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which was bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, according to local residents cited by Itar Tass. The reason for the scramble? Under peacetime, the process was expected to take many years, during which Europe would be under the energy dictatorship of Putin. But throw in some civil war and few will notice let alone care that a process which was expected to take nearly a decade if not longer while dealing with broad popular objections to fracking, may instead be completed in months!

...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-2 ... st-ukraine
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:17 pm

Evidence the Ukraine government is stepping up massacres of innocent civilians...hard to pick sides when you pretty much have a murderous nutjob government fighting a western backed fascist government.
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby justdrew » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:52 pm

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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:41 pm

Edward Snowden’s Russian Asylum Expires Today
5:44 PM 07/31/2014

Former National Security Agency intelligence contractor Edward Snowden’s temporary Russian asylum expires Thursday, and the leaker’s request for an extension has yet to be approved.

“Edward still remains in Russia and we have prepared and submitted a package of documents asking for the permission of a temporary political asylum for him,” Snowden Russian attorney Anatoly Kucherena said, according to Russian news outlet ITAR-TASS. (RELATED: Russia Will Likely Extend Snowden’s Asylum Because ‘His Life Is Endangered’)

“I see no problem in prolonging the temporary asylum,” Vladimir Volokh, head of an advisory body to Russia’s Federal Migration Service, told the Interfax news agency earlier this month. “The circumstances have not changed. As before, Snowden’s life is endangered so the FMS has grounds to extend his status.”

Kucherena explained the FMS is following standard procedures in reviewing Snowden’s application. The attorney made no mention of other options Snowden may consider, or if he’ll eventually seek full Russian citizenship.

“We hope that the issue will be resolved today or tomorrow,” Kucherena said.

Snowden was granted one year of asylum on Aug. 1, 2013 after leaking a cache of classified NSA intelligence documents to reporters, flying out of Hong Kong and landing Russia. After identifying Snowden as the leaker, the U.S. State Department canceled his passport, stranding him in Moscow. The Obama administration has since leveled multiple espionage charges against the leaker.

Over the last year Snowden has reportedly obtained a website maintenance job, and is living in an undisclosed location in Moscow.
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Russian/Siberian Agent school girl Maria (NRA) Butina pleads guilty to CONSPIRACY against the U.S. and is cooperating with prosecutors
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby dada » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:09 am

Almost started a new Ukraine thread, but this will do. I never start threads, anyway.

I find it interesting, reading the posts on this thread. Seeing what has changed, what has evolved, and what hasn't. Also interesting to view the media content from this vantage point.

Here's the longer Ukraine thread, useful for the same reasons:

"Russia's de facto invasion of Ukraine"
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37815&p=536843

I wonder if it is possible to look at the Kremlin's strategy in Ukraine - from twenty-fourteen to the present - through a perspective other than the "Kissingerian realpolitik" lens.

Probably not. Anyway I'm not saying that Crimea and the Donbas aren't pawns. Crimean ports are valuable. Crimea has 'sacred importance for Russians.' Sacred importance, right. And the Donbas is politically useful. A strategic stage. I'm not arguing against all that. Are there layers to peel back, though, other games being played. Any feints within feints. You know, Harkonnen style action. No, I guess there's nothing more to read into it.

Some current state of affairs:

"Who is who in the Kremlin proxy “Luhansk People’s Republic”"

http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/09/07/who-is-who-in-the-kremlin-proxy-luhansk-peoples-republic/


Chechens in Donbas (in Ukranian, bad google translation. But you get the idea )

https://znaj.ua/politics/172943-nazrivaye-bunt-surkov-zaganyaye-na-donbas-kadirovciv
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:37 pm

Thanks for digging this up. I'd forgotten it!
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Re: Can we talk intelligently about Russia and Ukraine?

Postby dada » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:04 pm

Ya, informative thread. Useful for perspectives, as well. Like a good zoom lens, wide angle to telephoto. Thanks for starting it.

Some more Ukraine news

Ukraine's intel: Russia uses Vostok war games to pull Uragans closer to Ukrainian border

Russian military field camps have been deployed in the said areas, they are used as the basis to form special detachments to provide covert rotation and strengthen the advanced positions of terrorist units.

"Certain detachments of the so-called 'recruits' are formed solely from residents of Dagestan and Chechnya. Simultaneously, the so-called [Russian] 'Cossack detachments' are being created, some of them have already arrived to join the 1st Army Corps of the occupation forces," [Spokesman for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry Dmytro Hutsuliak] said.

Ukrainian intelligence reports also inform that Russians use the war games to bring new weapons, engineering equipment and other assets closer to the border with Ukraine for further transfer to the units and subdivisions of Russia's hybrid military forces in occupied Donbas, eastern Ukraine.

https://www.unian.info/war/10259601-ukraine-s-intel-russia-uses-vostok-war-games-to-pull-uragans-closer-to-ukrainian-border.html

--

[Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo] Klimkin says Russia’s idea is to fragment Ukraine

“The whole idea is to use Donbas to try to legitimize reality around Donbas, to push it into Ukraine… to kick off the process of Russian narrative of federalization,” Klimkin at the 15th YES Conference organized by the Victor Pinchuk Foundation in Kyiv on Sept. 15.

He said that it is not so important for Russia if the political situation in Ukraine is more pro-Russian or less. “The whole idea is to weaken up and fragment Ukraine,” the minister said.

He said that Russia’s tactics or strategy is basically constantly raise the stakes, and the western strategy in many cases was basically to lower the stakes.

“Whether this asymmetric approach is good I have my strong doubts,” he said.

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/klimkin-says-russias-idea-is-to-fragment-ukraine.html
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