Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby smiths » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:16 am

does anyone have the right to defend themelves? who defines who has the right?
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:23 am

US ...UK ......Israel
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:59 am

coffin_dodger » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:29 pm wrote:

A question recently posed to the US State Dept..


Thanks for that, c_d. She is thrown into hopeless confusion by that simple question, and therefore reduced to pretending she doesn't understand it. So the question needs to be asked again and again and again, at every available opportunity, i.e. at every single press conference, until there is an end to the sanctimonious litany, "Israel has the right to defend itself.".

How I detest and despise these shameless, conscienceless functionaries. Whatever sins I may have to confess at them Pearly Gates, at least I will never have to say I was a spokesperson.

Image

Image

Image

The banality of it.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:13 am

Netanyahu’s ‘Telegenically Dead’ Comment Is Grotesque but Not Original
By Glenn Greenwald21 Jul 2014, 7:59 AM EDT 327

Benjamin Netanyahu, yesterday, on CNN, addressing worldwide sympathy for the civilian victims of Israeli violence in Gaza:

They want to pile up as many civilian dead as they can. They use telegenically dead Palestinians for their cause. They want the more dead, the better.

Joseph Goebbels, November 16, 1941, essay in Das Reich, addressing Germany sympathy for German Jews forced to wear yellow stars:

The Jews gradually are having to depend more and more on themselves, and have recently found a new trick. They knew the good-natured German Michael in us, always ready to shed sentimental tears for the injustice done to them. One suddenly has the impression that the Berlin Jewish population consists only of little babies whose childish helplessness might move us, or else fragile old ladies. The Jews send out the pitiable. They may confuse some harmless souls for a while, but not us. We know exactly what the situation is.

Rather than lard up the point with numerous defensive caveats about what is and is not being said here (which, in any event, never impede willful media distorters in their tactics), I’ll simply note three brief points:

(1) To compare aspects of A and B is not to posit that A and B are identical (e.g., to observe that Bermuda and Bosnia are both countries beginning with the letter “B” is not to depict them as the same, just as observing that both the U.S. in 2003 and Germany in 1938 launched aggressive wars in direct violation of what were to become the Nuremberg Principles is not to equate the two countries).

(2) In general, the universality of war rhetoric is a vital fact, necessary to evaluate the merit of contemporary claims used to justify militarism (claims that a war amounts to mere “humanitarian intervention”, for instance, have been invoked over and over to justify even the most blatant aggression). Similarly, the notion that one is barred from ever citing certain historical examples in order to draw lessons for contemporary conflicts is as dangerous as it is anti-intellectual.

(3) Anglo-American law has long recognized that gross recklessness is a form of intent (“Fraudulent intent is shown if a representation is made with reckless indifference to its truth or falsity”). That’s why reckless behavior even if unaccompanied by a desire to kill people – e.g., randomly shooting a gun into a crowd of people – has long been viewed as sufficient to establish criminal intent.

One can say many things about a military operation that results in more than 75 percent of the dead being civilians, many of them children, aimed at a population trapped in a tiny area with no escape. The claim that there is no intent to kill civilians but rather an intent to protect them is most assuredly not among them. Even stalwart Israel supporter Thomas Friedman has previously acknowledged that Israeli assaults on Lebanon, and possibly in Gaza, are intended ”to inflict substantial property damage and collateral casualties” because “the only long-term source of deterrence was to exact enough pain on the civilians” (which, to the extent it exists, is the classic definition of “terrorism”). The most generous claim one can make about what Israel is now doing in Gaza is that it is driven by complete recklessness toward the civilian population it is massacring, a form of intent under centuries of well-settled western law.

* * * * *

American journalism is frequently criticized with great justification, but there are a number of American journalists in Gaza, along with non-western ones, in order to tell the world about what is happening there. That reporting is incredibly brave and difficult, and those who are doing it merit the highest respect. Their work, along with the prevalence of social media and internet technology that allows Gazans themselves to document what is happening, has changed the way Israeli aggression is seen and understood this time around.

Credit to Jonathan Schwarz, now working with Matt Taibbi’s forthcoming First Look Media digital publication, for finding the 1941 article cited here.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:41 pm

Human Catastrophe at Gaza’s Hospitals
July 20, 2014

The U.S. mainstream media is again downplaying the horror of Israel’s latest invasion of Gaza. The Washington Post’s front-page headline said “Israel edges into Gaza.” But the carnage is more dramatic at Gaza’s overflowing hospitals, as Dr. Mads Gilbert explained to Dennis J Bernstein.

By Dennis J Bernstein

The Israeli latest war in Gaza has claimed more than 330 lives, including scores of children, and left thousands wounded, forcing overworked and under-supplied medical personnel to scramble in a desperate struggle to save lives.

One of those doctors, Norwegian physician Mads Gilbert, was in Gaza during Israel’s last major assault, Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09, and is now tending to the flood of wounded pouring into Shifa Hospital as a result of Israel’s Operation Protective Edge. Dr. Gilbert was interviewed by Dennis J Bernstein for Pacifica’s “Flashpoints” program.

An Israeli soldier prepares for a night attack inside Gaza as part of Operation Protective Edge. (Israel Defense Forces photo)
An Israeli soldier prepares for a night attack inside Gaza as part of Operation Protective Edge. (Israel Defense Forces photo)
DB: Give us an overview in terms of the medical situation. What can you tells us in terms of the extent of the wounds, what type is most prevalent, the number of dead and wounded at this hour.

MG: I am now in Shifa Hospital in central Gaza City. Shifa Hospital is the trauma center for the 1.7 million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip. It’s a very important hospital, but its function is almost crippled by the longstanding, seven-year Israeli siege of Gaza, which has caused extensive deficiencies on all types of equipment needed for running a hospital; disposable instruments, sutures, and the more basic things like water and electricity.

So, it’s really a miracle that the staffing at Shifa managed to improvise all that you need to improvise in order to sustain a caseload, like we had [Thursday], of around 100 cases coming into Shifa, many of them severally injured. And before I go to the injuries, let me just underline one thing. Health is not only a question of a health-care system, it is in as much a question of the basic commodities in life – water, food, human security, education, work and so on. And all these basic pre-conditions for public health are lacking in Gaza as a result of the occupation and the siege of Gaza.

As for the injuries, we have had a steady current of injured, dying, dead during this close to two weeks of Israeli onslaught. The most striking impression and documented feature is that 80 – 90 percent of the injured and killed are civilians. This is according to U.N. and the Palestinian Minister of Health. Fifty percent, pretty much exactly 50 percent of the injured are women and children. About one-quarter to one-third of the killed are children.

This is really a large-scale attack on the Palestinian civilian society. And bear in mind, that to a man in Gaza there absolutely is nowhere to hide, there is nowhere to hide. There is no shelter, there is no early warning system, no sirens, no civil defense. On top of that you can’t see, you can’t really get away from this mess. You can’t take you family and escape to a neighboring state or up in the mountains or away. Because you are incarcerated. It is like a prison being bombed. Completely.

DB: Now let me ask you, in terms, you said that most of the wounded and killed are civilians. Could you say a little bit more about, just to keep a human face on this, who you’ve seen, who’s coming in, and what do the wounds look like? Are they consistent with advanced weaponry? What can you tell us about that?

MG: Well, you know, war is a dirty thing. And we just received up to thirty [victims] from families that were bombed now around 8:30 [on Friday] just as we’re having these talks, women, children, elders coming in with shrapnel injuries from the heavy Israeli artillery that has been shot … since last night. These artillery grenades produce deadly shrapnel that travels at a very high speed and, if you are unlucky, they will penetrate one of your cavities, the abdomen, the chest or the brain, and cause life threatening bleedings. And this is a time critical event if you want to survive. The doctors and the surgeons must detect the bleeding, and immediately do surgery to stop the bleeding. This is one type of injuries.

The other type of injuries we are seeing are the traumatic amputations. We have seen now, like in 2006, 2009 and 2012, extreme amputations: legs ripped off at the level of the hip, arms ripped off under the armpit and bodies cut in two, with no signs of shrapnel injuries. Now we don’t really know what kind of explosives these are, but it has been discussed among people who are knowledgeable about weapons, that this might be the result of explosives called the DIME [Dense Inert Metal Explosive] weapon, a metal explosive.

But I underline, we don’t have any proof of this. And it doesn’t really matter what type of weapon you are injured or killed by. If you are killed or injured, the end point is the same. So if I should talk about any illegal weapon used by the Israeli forces, it is the weapons that are illegal according to the international regulations and laws of war regulated in the Geneva Conventions.

And there are three illegal weapons that Israel is using. Number one, is the collective punishment defined by the siege that has lasted for seven years and that is really making the whole population suffer really large difficulties. The second illegal weapon is the indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas, not protecting the civilians at all, which is against the Geneva Conventions, Article 33. And the third illegal weapon is the disproportionate use of force. The fighting parties are obliged to use proportional force. Israel is using an overwhelmingly disproportional use of force which is reflected in the fact that now close to 300 Palestinians have been killed or massacred, and 1 Israeli is killed [at the time of the interview on Friday]. That is 1 to 300 which tells you everything about the disproportion.

So really this is a very uneven, if you can even call it a war. It is an occupant who is viciously bombing a large civilian population. They have nowhere to fly and are basically defenseless.

DB: Now we know about all the embargoes. We talked a little about this before. Do the hospitals, where you are in Shifa [Hospital] in Gaza, do the hospitals have the supplies that they need? Are people getting what they need? Is it able to come in?

MG: Absolutely not. As a result, as I said, of the siege, the hospital system has been sort of slowly crippled along with the civilian society. And when the Egyptian president closed the tunnels which was really the life-line into Gaza, the fuel crisis went up 400 percent and it basically sort of crushed all the public budgets. So for example, doctors in this municipality can no longer afford fuels for the generators which is producing electricity in order to run the waste water pumps and the cleaning machinery for sewage. So currently 65,000 cubic meters of raw sewage is running into the Mediterranean area.

And in every aspect of civilian life, and a normal life, they are effects of the siege. So the hospitals are only one sector where this lack of supplies has really reduced the capacity. And let me illustrate this by saying that on the 17th of June, the leadership in Shifa Hospital decided to cancel all elective surgeries, meaning planned surgery and only doing emergencies. This was a few weeks before the attacks started.

And on the 3rd of July, two days before the attack started, they decided to only do life-saving emergency surgery. That means, basically, that 1.7 million Palestinian people are without the health care that you need for your daily life. Like for cancer, for orthopedic, for anything that you are being treated for.

So, it’s running on sort of an emergency, very basic level, and on top this now comes this large influx of very severely wounded. We were running six operating rooms last night. We were operating continuously as these 100 plus, injured came pulling into the hospital.

I am amazed. I am deeply impressed by the quality and the morality of the Palestinian health workers. From the ambulance paramedics, to the nurses, to the doctors, to the cleaners. They stand tall. They haven’t been paid normal salaries since March and before that they had 50 percent salary for eight months, still they come to work. They are working for nothing. … They are exhausted, extremely exhausted, but they don’t leave their people. I am deeply impressed by their morality.

DB: And, Dr. Gilbert, when you were there in 2008 and 2009, there were multiple attacks on hospitals. There were many attacks on ambulances. We understand that a hospital in the north that deals with the elderly and the infirmed was under attack. What can you tell us about that?

MG: This was the Al-Wafa hospital which was the most important rehabilitation hospital in Gaza and the Gaza Strip. Al-Wafa is – or was – a rather well organized rehabilitation center. They have 18 patients now. They were actually ordered by the Israeli armed forces to evacuate the hospital because they were going to bomb it.

Now, don’t forget that hospitals are protected by the international laws and the Geneva Convention. You can’t bomb hospitals like that, but Israel can. Where was the ICRC [International Committee of the Red Cross]? Where was the U.N? Where were the white cars rolling up to protect this hospital?

There’s total lawlessness, here. Israeli impunity seems to allow them to do whatever they want. Kill children. Kill elders. Bomb hospitals. Stop the water. Stop the electricity. Stop the supply of drugs. What is this, medieval times? What is this? What kind of morality is this? What kind of treatment of decent people is this? You call somebody terrorist and you think that you’re exempted from the laws of moral and international regulations? It shouldn’t go on like this. This has to be stopped.

And I tell Mr. Obama, if you have a heart, come to Gaza. Spend a night with me in Shifa Hospital and I’m absolutely sure that he will change his mind. Mr. Obama, come here and tend to the children of Gaza, screaming, injured, so many shrapnels and burns. See what this is actually on the ground. This is not a war against some enemy called terrorist. This is an all-out war against a civilian population of Gaza who has deserved nothing to have this hell upon them from the Israeli war machine. This is state terrorism, at a very high level.

DB: And, finally, you bring up the children. We know there have been multiple deaths of children, I think it’s over 40 now. We saw the slaughter on the beach. We saw other families being wiped out. There are the kids who already dead, and what about the impact on the tens, and hundreds of thousands of young people in the Gaza Strip? How does this impact on the child’s health if you are not wounded?

MG: That’s an important question. Let me just give you the numbers updated as of 4 o’clock this afternoon [Friday]. So hard, 62 children have been killed by the Israelis in Gaza, 24 women — that is 86 women and children, those already killed. This is among the 270 to be killed, so far. Among the 2,196 injured Palestinians, 637 are children. So the Israelis have injured almost 650 children and killed 62.

Now for a moment, God forbid, turn it around and ask yourself, what would the world leaders have said if Palestinian fighters had killed 62 Israeli children and injured 637 Israeli children in less than two weeks? This is what really troubles the Palestinians. We are treated like second-class citizens, like animals.

The laws that apply to the world, do not apply to us. Israel can do what they like. Nobody reacts. They can kill us, they can bomb our houses, they can close our borders, they can do whatever they like, and nobody reacts. This has to stop. This is not a world war. This is so extremely provocative, for the people all over the world.

As for the psychological trauma, Palestinians are strong. They have a very strong coherence in their families. They are filled with what the Arabs and Palestinians call sumud which means steadfastness, they stand tall, they stick together, they don’t rock. They have an extreme resilience. They are not beggars. They are not creeping around, asking for mercy. They say “Give us peace. Give us equity and equality and we will be fine. We don’t need developmental assistance, we just need basic human rights, and peace, and we will manage fine.”

But, of course, it’s an enormous psychological burden. I see like myself. I mean, the Israelis bombing day and night, it’s extremely frightening. We’re in a hospital, but imagine now these coming in from their homes, sitting there having their Christmas dinner, basically, and Israeli grenades hits right in the sitting room, in the living room. And mother and father are sprayed with blood, and two sisters are killed, and everything around them … they’re phoning an ambulance, that are coming to them, they’re getting help in the hospital.

You know, these are scars on your mind for a lifetime. But they mend, they come away. The unfortunate thing is that, they are re-traumatized every third, fourth year by the Israeli war machine, by the Israeli government, who seems actually to have a plan with these repetitious attacks on Gaza, to break the backbone of the Palestinian resistance. That’s never going to happen. Palestinians are like others who are occupied. They will never yield to the occupant.

Norway was occupied for five years, by the Germans, a couple of tens of years by the Swedes, 400 years by the Danes. We get rid of them. We’re a small but we’re a proud and independent nation. People want to be free, like the people in the United States. Why should the Palestinians demand less than freedom and independence?

DB: Well, that’s the question we’re going to leave it at right now. Dr. Mads Gilbert outside the operating room where the bombs continue to fall. Are they continuing to fall, the bombs, the drones?

MG: Oh, yes, oh yes. Oh yes, sir. We heard the drones, which means the hummers, or the humming bees, all over our heads. We are having a large, yellow … the light grenades, hanging over our heads, to light up the ground for the Israeli forces when they want to shoot. And we hear this deafening detonations and explosions from the Israeli air-to-ground rockets and from the artillery shells. I don’t want anybody to experience this, my friend. This is so frightening. This is so painful. And to see this current of injured, and bleeding, and dying children and women. It is even more than I can take, many times.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:30 pm

Why does that Netanyahu article refer to "the Jews" as one entity in a disparaging way?
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:37 pm

I don't know ...maybe he is one of those self hating


...his grandfather was a Orthodox Rabbi but I guess that won't spare him around here :roll:
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:42 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:Why does that Netanyahu article refer to "the Jews" as one entity in a disparaging way?


If you're refering to this:
The Jews gradually are having to depend more and more on themselves, and have recently found a new trick. They knew the good-natured German Michael in us, always ready to shed sentimental tears for the injustice done to them. One suddenly has the impression that the Berlin Jewish population consists only of little babies whose childish helplessness might move us, or else fragile old ladies. The Jews send out the pitiable. They may confuse some harmless souls for a while, but not us. We know exactly what the situation is.


It's preceded by this:

Joseph Goebbels, November 16, 1941, essay in Das Reich, addressing Germany sympathy for German Jews forced to wear yellow stars:


and made absolutely clear that these are not Greenwalds words with this caveat at the end of the article:

Credit to Jonathan Schwarz, now working with Matt Taibbi’s forthcoming First Look Media digital publication, for finding the 1941 article cited here.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:43 pm

^^^^^thanks


Robert Fisk quoted Bernstein in the 9 July 2002 edition of The Independent of London as saying: “Any US journalist, columnist, editor, college professor, student-activist, public official or clergy member who dares to speak critically of Israel or accurately report the brutalities of its illegal occupation will be vilified as an anti-Semite.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:09 am

Thank you, should have gone to the link to see the nested quotes, it was a confusing read without them.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:01 am

While so much of the far/racialist right wing has not surprisingly gone into pro Israel/Anti Arab move, those racist nutjobs of any color who use the ongoing persecution of Palestinians by the *state* of Israel to further anti Jewry
are scumbags just like the post 9/11 right wingers using 9/11 as a libel against Arabs, Muslims and other Middle Easterner/North African peoples.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:58 am

U.N.: One Child Killed Every Hour in Gaza
By contributors | Jul. 24, 2014 |

By Juan Cole
UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said on Wednesday that Israel’s military actions are responsible for the death of a child every hour in recent days and observed, “Respect for the right to life of civilians, including children, should be a foremost consideration. Not abiding by these principles may amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity.” (see below). That is, in international law, Israel’s pretext for indiscriminate bombing– that Hamas hides out among non-combatants– is unacceptable. Israel is the occupying power in Gaza and has a duty to minimize non-combatant death, which it clearly is not doing (some 75% of Palestinians killed in this round of fighting have been children, women and non-combatant men. About 147 children have been killed by Israel; only a couple dozen Hamas fighters have been. Thousands of non-combatants have been wounded by indiscriminate shelling and air strikes, as well.)
Pillay noted that since July 7, Israel has launched 2,100 air strikes on the densely-populated slum that the occupation has turned Gaza into. Hundreds of civilian homes have been destroyed and 140,000 people have been displaced and made homeless.
She also complained about Hamas’s indiscriminate rocket fire on civilian population centers, which is a war crime.
But her list of Israeli violations of Human Rights law and obligations is much longer. She complained that Israel is not giving people — especially the elderly and the challenged — time to properly evacuate their homes once Israel had made clear it will bomb them.
She instances Israeli shelling of an old person’s home, of a hospital, and of a facility for the handicapped as some of the cases that point to the commission of war crimes and even crimes against humanity.
CNN reports:
CNN: “U.N.: One child killed every hour in Gaza”

Here is the full statement of Navi Pillay, High Commissioner of Human Rights at the UN, at the Human Rights Council on Wednesday, addressing the council president, Baudelaire Ndong Ella of Gabon:
“Mr. President,
Distinguished Members of the Human Rights Council,
Excellencies,
The situation in the occupied Gaza Strip is critical for the civilians living there and requires your urgent attention. Since Israel announced its military operation “Protective Edge” on 7 July, Gaza has been subjected to daily intensive bombardment from the air, land and sea, employing well over 2,100 air strikes alone. The hostilities have resulted in the deaths of more than 600 Palestinians, including at least 147 children and 74 women.
This is the third serious escalation of hostilities in my six years as High Commissioner. As we saw during the two previous crises in 2009 and 2012, it is innocent civilians in the Gaza Strip, including children, women, the elderly and persons with disabilities, who are suffering the most.
According to preliminary UN figures, around 74 percent of those killed so far were civilians, and thousands more have been injured. Those numbers have climbed dramatically since Israel’s ground operations began on 17 July.
Hundreds of homes and other civilian buildings, such as schools, have been destroyed or severely damaged in Gaza, and more than 140,000 Palestinians have been displaced as a result.
Two Israeli civilians have also lost their lives and between 17 and 32 others have been reported injured as a result of rockets and other projectiles fired from Gaza, and 27 Israeli soldiers have been killed during military operations in Gaza.
As we speak, the indiscriminate firing by Hamas and other armed groups of more than 2,900 rockets, as well as mortars, from Gaza continues to endanger the lives of civilians in Israel. I have repeatedly condemned such indiscriminate attacks in the past. I do so again today.
I further emphasise that it is unacceptable to locate military assets in densely populated areas or to launch attacks from such areas. However, international law is clear: the actions of one party do not absolve the other party of the need to respect its obligations under international law.
Mr. President,
Civilian homes are not legitimate targets unless they are being used for, or contribute to, military purposes at the time in question. In case of doubt, civilian homes are presumed not to be legitimate targets. Even where a home is identified as being used for military purposes, any attack must be proportionate, offer a definite military advantage in the prevailing circumstances at the time, and precautions must be taken.
I unequivocally reiterate to all actors in this conflict that civilians must not be targeted. It is imperative that Israel, Hamas and all Palestinian armed groups strictly abide by applicable norms of international humanitarian law and international human rights law. This entails applying the principles of distinction between civilians and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives; proportionality; and precautions in attack. Respect for the right to life of civilians, including children, should be a foremost consideration. Not abiding by these principles may amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Mr. President,
Israel has stated that it has alerted Gazans before conducting strikes, including by using telephones, text messages and so-called warning “roof knocks,” using relatively light munitions. Even if Israel has attempted to warn civilians to, for example, leave their homes or conducted an evacuation before an attack, this does not release Israel from its obligations under international humanitarian law. Any warning for civilians must meet with the requirements of international law, including that this warning be clear, credible and allows sufficient time for people to react to it.
A number of incidents, along with the high number of civilian deaths, belies the claim that all necessary precautions are being taken to protect civilian lives. Roof-knocking itself is costing lives, with one projectile – apparently delivered from a drone – reported to have pierced a 20-centimetre concrete roof, killing three children.
People – particularly the elderly, sick and those with disabilities – are not given sufficient time to scramble out of their homes. When they do manage to run out into the street, there is nowhere to hide and no way of knowing where the next shell or missile will land.
Some eminent human rights defenders whom I spoke to inside Gaza yesterday asked for “the rule of law, not rule of the jungle”, adding that they have no peace, no security and no human rights. With regard to the firing of rockets by armed groups from densely populated areas, they said – and I quote – “We do not choose our neighbours.”
The disregard for international humanitarian law and for the right to life, was shockingly evident for all to see in the apparent targeting on 16 July of seven children playing on a Gaza beach. Credible reports gathered by my Office in Gaza indicate that the children were hit first by an Israeli air-strike, and then by naval shelling. All seven were hit. Four of them, – aged between 9 and 11, from the same Bakr family – were killed. These children were clearly civilians taking no part in hostilities.
The following day, three more children were killed and two others wounded, reportedly by a drone missile, in the Al-Sabra area of Gaza city while they were playing on the roof of their home as their parents prepared the daily Ramadan iftar meal.
These are only a few of the cases in which a total of 147 children have been killed in Gaza over the past 16 days. They had a right to life just like children in any other country. Their killings raise concerns about respect for the principles of distinction, proportionality and precautions in attack.
Israeli children, and their parents and other civilians, also have a right to live without the constant fear that a rocket fired from Gaza may land on their houses or their schools, killing or injuring them. Once again, the principles of distinction and precaution are clearly not being observed during such indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas by Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups.
Mr President,
On 13 July, an Israeli strike reportedly killed two women in wheelchairs and injured four other patients in a centre for persons with disabilities in Beit Lahiya.
In the area of al-Shuja’iya, the full extent of casualties and damage to property is still unclear due to the continuous military ground offensive. Based on preliminary information gathered by my office in Gaza, on 20 July, a house was hit by several artillery shells at 6:00 a.m., killing seven members of a single family (including four women and two children) and one neighbour, who had sought refuge in the house. Another five family members, including three children, were injured.
In another case, five people were still missing as of 21 July, in a house targeted in an airstrike, and are believed to be buried under the rubble. My staff are continuing to document several other cases, in which family residences were destroyed with reported loss of civilian life, and in which preliminary indications suggest not even a single member of an armed group was present.
Then, just two days ago, on 21 July, shells hit the Al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir al-Balah reportedly killing at least three people and wounding dozens of others, including doctors.
These are just a few examples where there seems to be a strong possibility that international humanitarian law has been violated, in a manner that could amount to war crimes. Every one of these incidents must be properly and independently investigated
Blockade and impact of repeated military hostilities
The current conflict and destruction comes at a time when Gaza is still recovering from repeated escalations of hostilities with Israel. The crippling effects of the Israeli blockade and other measures linked to the Israeli occupation of Gaza suppress the ability of the people to go about their daily lives and prevent them from rebuilding their lives and communities after repeated military operations.
I reiterate my numerous calls for this blockade to be lifted once and for all.
This latest assault has wreaked further damage to Gaza’s water and sanitation facilities. Fuel and medicine are in critically short supply, and electricity is reduced to a few hours a day, affecting ordinary households as well as compromising the ability of hospitals to treat the many injured, and to care for the most vulnerable people.
Situation in the West Bank
Mr President,
The current situation in Gaza has overshadowed the backdrop of heightened tensions in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem. On 12 June, three Israeli teenagers went missing near Hebron, and were subsequently found murdered. Since then, more than 1,200 Palestinians have reportedly been arrested with some placed in administrative detention; Israel has carried out extensive operations where homes and offices have been raided and property damaged; the Israeli authorities have also resumed a policy of carrying out punitive house demolitions, and nine Palestinians have been killed in incidents involving Israeli security forces, raising serious concerns of excessive use of force, especially in the context of demonstrations against the military operation in Gaza.
In addition, I am concerned about reports of a significant rise in incitement to violence against Palestinians, including through social media. On 2 July, a Palestinian teenager was beaten and burned alive in Jerusalem amidst an atmosphere of revenge and incitement to violence.
The killings of all four teenage boys were abhorrent and those responsible must be brought to justice. However, only those responsible for these criminal acts can legitimately be punished. Individuals may not be punished for offences they have not personally committed or be made subject to collective penalties.
Context of protracted occupation
Mr President,
Israel holds obligations as an Occupying Power. For Palestinians in Gaza and in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, the current reality is not just one of repeated conflict but also one of protracted occupation, with insecurity and a constant daily struggle for human rights, in particular the right to self-determination. In Gaza, the blockade and Access Restricted Areas continue to undermine the human rights of the population. In the West Bank, ever expanding illegal Israeli settlements; settler violence; demolitions of Palestinian homes; the Wall and its associated regime; excessive use of force; and large scale detentions of Palestinians are some of the ongoing, routine abuses and human rights violations committed against the occupied population.
The scenes we witness from afar, here in Geneva or around the world, via the 24-hour news channels and social media, provide only brief glimpses of the daily reality of conflict for Palestinians and for Israelis.
A seven-year old Palestinian child in Gaza has never known life outside occupation and is already living through her or his third experience of a major Israeli military operation, including the so-called operations ‘Cast Lead’ in 2009 and ‘Pillar of Defence’ in 2012, with all the unimaginable death, destruction, terror and the life-long consequences that they inflicted.
Both Palestinians and Israelis deserve better than a life of chronic insecurity and recurring escalation in hostilities.
Accountability and the right to self-determination
The continued failure to properly ensure accountability on both sides following earlier escalations of hostilities in Gaza is of serious concern. The culture of impunity for alleged violations of international law invites further transgressions and the victims of the past become victims again. War crimes and crimes against humanity are two of the most serious types of crimes in existence, and credible allegations that they have been committed must be properly investigated. So far, they have not been.
According to local human rights groups, despite numerous allegations of serious international crimes, only four Israeli soldiers have been prosecuted and convicted for three incidents that occurred during Operation ‘Cast Lead’. One of the convictions was for stealing a credit card. And the other three soldiers, convicted of more serious crimes, received extraordinarily light sentences. In April 2013, the Military Advocate General issued a public document indicating that it found no basis for opening criminal investigations into approximately 65 incidents involving the Israel Defense Force during the 2012 operation known as ‘Pillar of Defence’.
With respect to rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza, information available also indicates that no adequate measures have been taken to carry out effective investigations into alleged violations.
Mr President,
I, and my predecessors and successors as High Commissioner for Human Rights, can only offer the facts, the law, and common sense. This we have done, and — I am sure — will continue to do, however much we are criticized for it.
We, as the International Community, the United Nations, the Human Rights Council, States, and as human beings, are obliged to do everything in our power to protect all civilians and ensure that human rights are respected, protected and fulfilled worldwide.
In Israel and Palestine, the politics of conflict, peace and security are constantly leading to the downgrading, or setting aside, of the importance of binding international human rights law and international humanitarian law. International law is not negotiable. No individual or state can be considered exempt, if they violate the law.
I hope that the parties will respond positively to the visit of the Secretary-General to the region and his call for an immediate ceasefire. But what must we finally do to move beyond a ceasefire that will inevitably be broken again in two or three years, leading to yet more dead civilian men, women and children? Accountability is the first step towards ensuring that the cycle of human rights violations and impunity is brought to an end. A lasting peace can only begin with respect for human rights and human dignity on both sides, and ultimately, in the full realisation of the right to self-determination.
All these dead and maimed civilians should weigh heavily on all our consciences. I know that they weigh heavily on mine. All our efforts to protect them have been abject failures. More powerful entities, such as the Security Council, and individual States with serious leverage over the parties to this dreadful and interminable conflict, must do far more than they have done so far to bring this conflict to an end once and for all.
Thank you.”
- Navi Pillay
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:00 am

Jon Williams‏@WilliamsJon wrote:UN Human Rights Council votes for Commission of Inquiry on alleged war crimes in #Gaza. 1 country voted against: USA

pic.twitter.com/lrvc0TWqCS

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The 17 abstainers include fucking Germany, fucking France, and the United fucking Kingdom.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby smiths » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:12 am

In its Basic Laws, Israel defines itself as a Jewish State.

That is, Semitism, as a central issue, stems from the nature and constitution of the Israeli state itself. Racism is structural and endemic in Israel.

It would be ideal if 'Israeli' actions and 'Jewish' actions were not conflated, but if it is a problem for people, go and tell Israel about.


Nothing has changed in a generation in Palestine/Israel, and periodically we all have to witness the collective punishment and slaughter of the Palestinians whilst making sure we dont say anything that might offend the militaristic, psychopathic aggressor state

I for one am sick to fucking death of it, fuck Israel and fuck the US for enabling it.
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: Do Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:06 am

smiths » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:12 am wrote:In its Basic Laws, Israel defines itself as a Jewish State.

That is, Semitism, as a central issue, stems from the nature and constitution of the Israeli state itself. Racism is structural and endemic in Israel.

It would be ideal if 'Israeli' actions and 'Jewish' actions were not conflated, but if it is a problem for people, go and tell Israel about.


Nothing has changed in a generation in Palestine/Israel, and periodically we all have to witness the collective punishment and slaughter of the Palestinians whilst making sure we dont say anything that might offend the militaristic, psychopathic aggressor state

I for one am sick to fucking death of it, fuck Israel and fuck the US for enabling it.


Amen. [On Edit: To every word of that.]

1. This is an ongoing fascist mass murder, televised, photographed a million times over, and live-blogged.

2. None of us will be risking our lives (unless we have the misfortune to live in Israeli or Palestine) if we protest against it with all peaceful means at our disposal.("Peaceful" meaning: without violence against persons.)

Therefore: If we carry on tolerating it and not actively opposing it, we have much, much less excuse than -- say -- the mass of the German population in 1933-45.

From the Jewish Virtual LIbrary: The White Rose - A Lesson in Dissent, by Jacob G. Hornberger.

Hans and Sophie Scholl, Christoph Probst and the others had to be heroic. They had to pay for their protest with their very young lives. We don't.

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Israel is a fascist state.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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