Towards a new RI

[jakell]

This caught my attention:

If you mean the link to the holocaust denial thread (that was the only true link I gave), then I was pretty much a bystander on that (I had a different name too), it was the other people on both sides who were far more active.

So, jakell, what other username were you then called?

It would help those of us to learn more about your past contributions.....

Concerning the above reference to me, I meant I had a different name on that other forum, I've always been jakell on here.

Over there that name attracted a fair bit hatred and a couple of threats and I don't want it linked to this one. Considering the people involved this was a wise choice, in the UK were are more or less on top of each other, and the issues and potential for harm are far from abstract.


ETA... Inserted quote box as we are now over the page. Also reinserted 'linkback'. as that had unaccountably disappeared the first time around.

[BOOGIE66]

Holy shit there are a lot of dumbass smart people posting in this thread.

And a few dumbass dumb people like me posting in it too.

[conniption]

I will waste my 1000th post by yawning. Yawn!

link - pg 20

Best waste of a 1000th post ever!

p.s.
congratulations.

[Searcher08]

This caught my attention:

jakell wrote:

If you mean the link to the holocaust denial thread (that was the only true link I gave), then I was pretty much a bystander on that (I had a different name too), it was the other people on both sides who were far more active.

So, jakell, what other username were you then called?

It would help those of us to learn more about your past contributions.

~~~~~

Seems to me the only witch hunt occurring presently is one being engaged in by some hoping to ban AD.

~~~~~


Placing another poster on "Ignore" or even a more thorough blocking of another's comments seems to me rather immature, childish, in fact. Like turning off the news to pretend the horrors being reported are not actually occurring. "I'm not talking' to him. You tell him this for me and then tell me what he has to say" kinda crap.

No one can control another's postings until after they've posted. The only thing you can control is your reaction to what they've written. You're all adults, fer crissakes.

And you all are disrespecting your host who provides you with this remarkable place. He asks only that you conduct yourselves appropriately as intelligent adults and do unto others as you would have them do to you.

If you cannot keep yourself and your emotions contained because another's words have inflamed you, please remember whose living room you are in and that you are a guest here and restrain yourself from acting out - out of respect for Mr. Wells and his Rigorous Intuition.

A momentary lapse of reason caused my first one-week banning and a month of self-induced introspection.


If you feel yourself getting hot and cannot contain yourself, limit your anger to a PM to whomever wrote what upset you. Or complain to a mod. But let's keep the board clean of such cosmic debris, cause if you don't, that is surely all that will be left of RI to remember.

~~~~~

Perhaps mods could divert front page (GD) postings to the appropriate subforum?

~~~~~

Searcher wrote,

The first insult comes at just the second post from the OP. Humour-free, no tolerance or curiosity or exploration of a different pov from the OP, differing personal points of view flooded with low quality CopyPasta, an incessant, divisive, bad-faith reframing of objections to this very behaviour as: supporting fascism, anti-Semitism and working to a far right agenda at RI.
Temperature increase. Massive bad feeling. Thread locked.

When I think of a hideous RI thread, this one comes to mind.

Compare and contrast these threads, if you will. What are your impressions?

This is patently false.

Here is the second posting on the 2013 thread, mine:

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Post by Iamwhomiam » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:40 pm
How can we be sure that Icke is not exactly what he's claimed others to be, a shape-shifting lizard, in order to further destabilize society?

How can we be sure that is indeed Icke in those videos and not some crisis actor?

Frankly, look who's missing from the 2007 Icke thread and compare it to the present participants.
With the passage of time comes new information with which some may now have changed their 2007 opinion of Icke. I still can't get past his claim to be the Messiah. How those who support him do is beyond my understanding.

Edited once to correct and include sentence erroneously omitted from quote box

You clearly have no problems with AD's approach.
In the normal course of events, your suggestions would cover the Bulk (maybe 98%) of interactions here. Take it to PM, talk with Mods, then 'suck it up and think of Jeff', then put on Ignore.

My issue is with the Exceptions = 2%

Sorry, your claim that was I said is 'patently false' is nonsense.
AD (the OP)'s second post is directly underneath yours.
Clearly, the mix of people at a board changes, along with the info content about subjects. Take that as read. My purpose in posting that was to show one RI culture in contrast to the current one.
You appear to have no problem with the difference between the 2007 one and the current one, nor a problem with AD's engagement approach to those he disapproves of. Fair enough - but a lot of people do, with both.

Unlike AD, who wants multiple people banned (and who considers Sounder and myself as running interference for the far right), I don't seek banning - just fair and equal treatment for all. That aint happening and the strategies for dealing with these exceptional issues have not worked by what has been tried so far.
Psynapz's post up thread is a perfect summary of the issues as I see them.
What she describes is not going to be addressed by what you have said and I have not read suggestions on how to deal with them. They are not going away just because you think there is not a problem.

[Elvis]

Suggestions have come up to move certain, shall we say, controversial thread topics from General Discussion to subforums where members who don't want to see them won't, and where visitors are less likely to see them and get the wrong idea.

That's a great idea if one visits forums individually, but a lot of people, including me, are using "View active topics" which lists posting activity in any of the various forums and subforums. It obviates the whole subforum arrangement and everything becomes one big forum. Choosing a thread to read from the "View active topics" list, I barely take notice of which forum or subforum a thread is posted to; if the thread title looks interesting, or it's a thread I'm following, I just go. The only drawback with people using "View active topics" is that I can't hide dumb stuff anymore in obscure subfora that "no one ever looks at anyway."

So, I wonder if "View active topics" should be made a kind of default setting? Do we need subforums? Do they over-specialize and compartmentalize RI subjects, discouraging a more comprehensive view? Here's why I ask: A key aspect of Jeff's blog essays for me was his insight into connections among seemingly disparate topics that I'd heard and read about, sometimes fairly extensively, but without seeing the relationships Jeff wrote about.

So rather than separating categories, would RI benefit from greater synergy among them? Forgive me for using the word synergy, but I think we need it and I don't know a synonym for it.


On the other hand, the IR reader who would be happy if he never heard another word about Yeti so long as he lived might like to keep the Bigfoot Saucer Pilots subforum off his screen altogether. But then, Yeti and Bigfoot appear regularly, as it were, in General Discussion right there next to the latest Goldman Sachs outrage. What can the discriminating reader do?

[Searcher08]

I would like to suggest that a thread that goes for 3 consecutive posts by the OP with none of them having any response - indicates that the topic is more in the Data Dump and should be moved there.

GD should be reserved for General Discussion - this means a combination of a live "News stream" and 'hot button' subject areas.

The 'News-stream'
If a subject is posted and no one responds, it needs to naturally fall off the front page as it is not seen by the community as an ongoing discussion subject. A few comments, maybe a couple of hundred views and it moves off.

News based Subject Discussions
These are the long discussion and analysis based threads that are consistently in the front page for many weeks or months. Many posts and personal comment from many people.

Gamed topics
These are topics in General Discussion which have long streams of posts at regular intervals by the same person, with no replies.
The effect of these is to keep them on front page of General Discussion, even though no discussion may have happened on them for weeks or even months!
Using cross-posting ensures that General Discussion constantly has gamed posts on the front page, even when no conversation is happening on them.

For example on the thread:
National Anarchism and the Far Right
There were 14 consecutive articles Copy Pasta-ed from March 2014 to July 2014, and around which NO DISCUSSION took place.

My suggestion is Data Dump is the place for topics like this and that threads can be nominated to be moved there.

An example five minutes after posting the above a new topic called
The Road to Elohim
which is a series from visupview that has already been cross-posted across multiple topics, namely

The Joker in the patriot movement
A New Europe: Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Nation-State

throughout June and July 2014.

[jakell]

Your a pretty good archivist Searcher.

When I first tentatively proffered that old Holocaust denial thread, I sort of had the slim hope that some word cruncher such as yourself (or collaboration of) would see the value of it and attempt some sort of archiving and functional cross referencing of it as most of the tools and data one could ever need are in there. It also points strongly to the meta-issues involved too for those who go glassy eyed at the details (like I sometimes do).
I attempted this but eventually baulked at it.

It seems like the right environment for that is needed also though (and this isn't it)

[Luther Blissett]

The best threads would ideally hit every subforum topic over the courses of their lives.

[Searcher08]

I think it would be good to have an RI Wiki or Personal Brain space.

They are very easy to set up and perhaps a much more natural place for ongoing 'personal project' topics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GFqLUBKCFdA#t=2

[Luther Blissett]

I think it would be good to have an RI Wiki or Personal Brain space.

They are very easy to set up and perhaps a much more natural place for ongoing 'personal project' topics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GFqLUBKCFdA#t=2

Or at least a portal to a more secure location where fellow members can plan and organize behind projects. I appreciate the technical and incentive hurdles to get there but I think it's one of the next logical steps for this community.

[82_28]

All told, looking over this thread I started, I had more high hopes that it would be more constructive in the sense of optimism and real and vicarious friendship. I should have never begun this.

For me, RI filled a void back in about 2007 when I was super depressed but wanted to maintain interest in the going topics and this is why I have stuck around. Of course that was when a number of others were still here and not now.

But whatever. Hash it out amongst yourselves. Just be kind. No more arguing about something positive. We all have intellects and feelings. It is time to recognize that in the other. Remember, some of us have met many people IRL who are very kind and everyone in this group who have met are all friends and people I believe I and they could count on in a pinch.

[Searcher08]

All told, looking over this thread I started, I had more high hopes that it would be more constructive in the sense of optimism and real and vicarious friendship. I should have never begun this.

For me, RI filled a void back in about 2007 when I was super depressed but wanted to maintain interest in the going topics and this is why I have stuck around. Of course that was when a number of others were still here and not now.

But whatever. Hash it out amongst yourselves. Just be kind. No more arguing about something positive. We all have intellects and feelings. It is time to recognize that in the other. Remember, some of us have met many people IRL who are very kind and everyone in this group who have met are all friends and people I believe I and they could count on in a pinch.

I appreciate you may feel dejected. Hang in there. There has been an absolute pile of constructive stuff on this thread - and some issues that have shifted at least a bit. An old friend of mine from the business world opined that 90% of positive change in an organisation is down to systemic factors. For example, crappy customer service between doctors and patients in a Practice (public health center) may be drastically changed by improved IT system speed and workflow, rather than by appeals to reason or the value of having a great culture - those are important but seem (from what I have seen) strangely seem to be less pivotal in making the change.

Acknowledge yourself too, for starting everyone here at RI on a really big journey. Like a boat leaving a harbour and going to the open sea, there will be increased turbulence for a while. What matters is that everyone is participating like crazy, each in their own way. The conversation wants and needs to continue.

[stefano]

General Discussion is a good thing, and as shown by pageviews at least, is still the only forum that most visitors by far look at. You 'view active topics' peeps are early adopters, at the innovative frontier of board browsing behaviour. GD can be kept general by moderation - limiting the proliferation of threads so that many different topics are on the first page. At the moment, for instance, two Palestine threads are plenty: Zionism's lost shine is about... well, that, attitudes to Israel and the occupation, while Gaza ground invasion is about the current assault. There's no need for Do Palestinians have a right to self-defence, or Israel's war crimes, and We need a new Israel thread!!!!! is just taking the piss. Mods could post in there saying "This is getting moved to the Middle East subforum in an hour, feel free to post the OP in a different thread if you want your post in GD."

Good point also about GD threads that contain no discussion. They're Data Dump threads. Perhaps mods could post in them and ask if anyone would object to their being moved.

That'll help already. I'm not big on bannings, this place already feels less diverse than it used to be, and I think active moving and locking of threads will limit disruptive behaviour. At least on GD. Although I'm not sure if mods have the permissions to move threads. Do they?

PurpleFreud

He's pink! Pink Freud... I thought that was a pretty good joke as well.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Operation Everyone Gets a Week Off

Our first iteration of OEGWO has ensnared the following habitual offenders / beautiful people: Jack, SLAD, AD, Searcher, Jakel, psynapz and BPH.

Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience -- and yea, the very iniquity of it all -- and we look forward to resuming normal combat operations in precisely seven days.

[norton ash]

^^ Well, my mind is blown. They ALL get a week off? Sorry, but this is not the way towards a new RI.